the soul arguement

[sushi]

is it valid to believe in souls? (even if it defies proof)

soul means the part of you that is indestructible unchangable, and cross the afterlife

while suffering and death only applies to body, that is prone to change and failure


a human being will have one part that is indestructible and unchanging
and a part that the human body, prone to weakness and pain diease etc

 

[ZenRaiden]

is it valid to believe in souls?

I think it depends what is your relationship with soul.
Intellectually you can believe in soul.
I don't subscribe to beliefs of other religions though about soul.
I also don't really fantasies about afterlife.
I prefer not to know.

 

[sushi]

Zenraiden, ion whether it exist or not.

"If there is something that can be said about us but not about our bodies then it is clear that our bodies and ourselves are different entities."

Lets say cloning technology , if there are a thousand clones that are same as yourself, are they the same or are they different.

a soul means you are unique individual no matter how many copies there are.
even each agent smith is different from another in a sense.

 

[Cognisant]

I'm sure we can agree that souls do not physically exist, it's not a thing in your brain that can be surgically transplanted or some kind of energy, it can't be manipulated by science is what I'm saying.

So if a soul does not physically exist, does it exist?

Does beauty exist, if a thing is beautiful can that beauty be objectively quantified, what part of the thing contains the beauty, can we extract and distill the essence of beauty? Of course not that's stupid.

This is the difference between something existing in the literal physical sense and it existing in the metaphysical sense, it doesn't actually exist, beauty is not an inherent property or component of anything, and yet there is still beauty in the world.

The soul does not literally physically exist, and yet the concept of a soul has real utility as a label for real phenomena, real people can have a real sickness of the soul.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

I don't see a point believing in something when you can't act on it.

It's how monotheistic deist perspective of God is functionally the same as anything not believing God at all.

If there is a God, who is unobservable, intangible, and and doesn't interact with anything, what would be the difference if there was no God at all?

 

[Cognisant]

People believe God exists and they act on those beliefs, consequently God exists in a metaphysical sense whether you believe in it or not, because you don't need to be a believer to be murdered for apostasy or heresy.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Lets say cloning technology , if there are a thousand clones that are same as yourself, are they the same or are they different.

The difference between you and me is so tiny, and superficial, therefore we are not different, is wrong line of reasoning to begin with.
I have five fingers and so do you.
I have two legs and so do you.
I have hair and so do you.
I have immune system that reacts to common cold same as you.
I could go on... but my point clones and humans are no different.
The reason clones are way too similar ergo care same patches of acid in double helix, does not mean we aren't separated entities.

Lets say cloning technology , if there are a thousand clones that are same as yourself, are they the same or are they different.

A leaf on the tree of oak is same on every tree in the universe, hence we call it oak tree, and we call oak leafs oak leafs.

I think you are trying to justify soul=unique.
I don't believe the purpose of soul is necessarily to make something unique, but I do think there is unique essence to soul.

a soul means you are unique individual no matter how many copies there are.
even each agent smith is different from another in a sense.

If there are 50 000 pixels on my screen all black, each of them is still unique, my finger prints might be unique, the way my thoughts travel through my neurons might be unique, but soul to me is something that has quality to it that is essential to it.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I don't see a point believing in something when you can't act on it.

Soul acts on us, we don't necessarily change soul.
I don't act on sun, but the sun gives life to us nonetheless.
Whether we are muslim, christian, jews, or barbarians, or german, or fish.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

Was referring to the instance where people are looking at God or the soul as something that is parallel (not intersecting) to our reality.

Christian deists think that the only interaction God had with our reality was at the beginning. Nothing else. It peaked around the time the American founding fathers time. I'm pretty sure most of them we're deist, meaning, they the bible didn't happen for them.

Spoiler: straight from the horses mouth

You (at least I) don't hear about many monotheistic deists because it's a wild assertion to believe on it's own. Which is why it died. While technically a creationist idea, people that were deist were obviously not like other creationist.

I see this with people who seem to ambiguously believe in the spirit, but have no explanation for it's function.

So, this idea of a soul, when I hear it, must not mean some abstractly constructed thing. When people bring this up, they are talking about something "real". Even if it is a psychological phenomena.

When a deist or some material spiritual person talk about God or the soul, they might as well not be talking about anything at all.

 

[onesteptwostep]

I think 'souls' is a pretty loaded term. From a shared secular standpoint 'consciousness' probably is a better term to encompass the meaning that you're aiming for.

The question could be phrased like "does the consciousness exist? and what is the justification of its existence, or its nonexistence?" I think getting at the definition of what is consciousness is contentious too.

Philosophy of the mind is some pretty droppy stuff.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Wow my soul left the body yesterday, and each time I go to sleep?
Consciousness still screwing with people, not sure why.

Consciousness is merely function of body in my opinion not part of soul, no different than rest of body is part of soul.

I guess the consciousness is passed off as soul, because it connects to self awareness, but not sure how it stacks up compared to soul ergo something of a existential essence.

I do think there are religions that conflate awareness with soul.
Never heard anyone explain the reasoning behind that decision though.

 

[onesteptwostep]

Wow my soul left the body yesterday, and each time I go to sleep?
Consciousness still screwing with people, not sure why.

Consciousness is merely function of body in my opinion not part of soul, no different than rest of body is part of soul.

I guess the consciousness is passed off as soul, because it connects to self awareness, but not sure how it stacks up compared to soul ergo something of a existential essence.

I do think there are religions that conflate awareness with soul.
Never heard anyone explain the reasoning behind that decision though.

I think the phrase "being conscious" and "consciousness" are different things though. Consciousness, is more about the experience of reality. You still experience reality when you sleep, in that your consciousness rests.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Oh ok so basically body awareness too.

 

[Perfectly Normal Beast]

guys we are eternal beings, made of spirit and flesh. when your flesh dies your spirit will go to be eternally with or without God, as you have chosen

if you don't believe in Jesus please as a favour to me tell him that and ask him sincerely and humbly to show you if he is real. what have you got to lose? if he isn't real then you talked to yourself for a few moments to indulge some crazy woman on the internet

it might help someone to know that i was a lifelong absolute atheist before the fake pandemic. i had no spiritual inclinations nor any fear of death; i found much humour and hence comfort in the dark absurdity of our meaningless fragile existence. i had never looked for God. when the covaids nonsense started i sensed an unspeakably evil force at work. as i searched for the truth about that i realised that the elites who run our lives and "educate"/entertain us worship the devil. this becomes obvious when you study the satanic symbolism by which they hide the truth in plain sight so they can claim not to have violated our free will. they worship satan because he is real and their rewards are wealth and power in this life

when you see the devil as an unbeliever you suddenly become very interested in who God is and how to get on his team. during these last days God is allowing evil to become more rampant and undeniable so that those who are deceived will see the truth. "the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"

 

[Cognisant]

When you die you don't go anywhere rather you're freed from the delusions of ego and personhood and return to being what you always were, one with the universe, or God if you prefer to call it that.

 

[birdsnestfern]

Yes, I believe in a soul and a spirit and afterlife for some people, but not all. If there are only a certain number of souls and they keep reincarnating, but population grows faster than there are souls available, its inevitable that not everyone gets one. Reptilians for example do not have souls like others may.

 

[sushi]

i think that suffering and death comes from the mind and body, which is prone to diease, decay and change

there is a part of oneself that is immutable, and that is the soul.
which is why those two things should be seperated.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I think soul is like a weightless thing that has information travel through it.
Maybe even into this world.
Which ever way I don't actually know how soul and lets say body interact.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

4th dimension maybe. Extra-dimensional beings we may be