The Pursuit of Happiness

[Cognisant]

I was recently discussing the ending of Technolyze (spoiler warning) the surface world is heavenly but quite dead and the city below is hellish but alive, the whole anime is a nihilistic statement on the futility of life, in the end everyone dies and that's portrayed as the most positive outcome possible which I don't agree with but I'm sufficiently versed in nihilism to understand the perspective.

On the surface people have advanced to a point where they no longer have desire (somehow, it's never really explained) and thus are simply waiting for death, it's the gist of what Schopenhauer and Buddha have to say about the nature of desire and suffering. Without desire there's no suffering but nor is there any motivation, continuing this train of thought the pursuit of happiness is utterly futile at best all we can ever really achieve is relative happiness, the heavenly bliss of absolute happiness is the death of the mind.

However I disagree with Schopenhauer and Buddha that we should live in accordance to the minimization of desire so as to avoid suffering, taken to its extreme that's merely another form of death. Rather I think we should pursue the consolidation of happiness and suffering, some years ago I was suicidally depressed and I've never appreciated the beauty of this world as I did then and I've come to believe that a contrast is necessary to see such things.

As you know if a page is all white or all black no picture can be seen, both shades are needed to resolve the image, likewise both pleasure and pain are necessary for the mind to exist so rather than seeking one extreme (the pinnacle of pleasure and abolishment of pain) I think the ideal state (if indeed there is such a thing) is to maximize both pleasure and pain, both happiness and suffering, it is not to enter heaven but rather be more alive.

Yes I've been drinking, fuck you

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

However I disagree with Schopenhauer and Buddha that we should live in accordance to the minimization of desire so as to avoid suffering, taken to its extreme that's merely another form of death. Rather I think we should pursue the consolidation of happiness and suffering, some years ago I was suicidally depressed and I've never appreciated the beauty of this world as I did then and I've come to believe that a contrast is necessary to see such things.

As you know if a page is all white or all black no picture can be seen, both shades are needed to resolve the image, likewise both pleasure and pain are necessary for the mind to exist so rather than seeking one extreme (the pinnacle of pleasure and abolishment of pain) I think the ideal state (if indeed there is such a thing) is to maximize both pleasure and pain, both happiness and suffering, it is not to enter heaven but rather be more alive.

This makes a lot of sense from my perspective. I view suffering as Schopenhauer's "Will" and pleasure as Buddhist bliss or meditation on what is "now". One has to accept both if one is to exist at all and not just become the instinctual creature escaping from one or dissolving one's consciousness in the other.

The degree of one's desire is arguably either a predetermined instinct, choice, or a shade of unfathomable absurd.

 

[TBerg]

Yes, this is why Nietzsche understood that all desires and all repressions will continue to recur throughout all of our existences. Mantras will bring about experiences of satori and satori will continue to negate mantras. It is only our ability to truly appreciate the process of existence that brings us beyond nihilism and beyond mantra.

 

[Rook]

Well Ive also been drinking and now I know everyone dies at the end of an anime that I have yet to see

Stopped reading there, should've stopped at yer spoiler warning.
Ah well

 

[ZenRaiden]

Without the acceptance of fuzziness of life one can not understand the life we live in.
People who just see black and white are simply like colorblind. They dont aknowledge other dimensions of life despite they experience them. I call these people pseudo intellectuals. They just form a view around one limited idea and go on to form a general view of the whole as if the whole was composition of just the one.

 

[Cognisant]

Everybody dies at the end of every anime worth watching

Mantras will bring about experiences of satori and satori will continue to negate mantras. It is only our ability to truly appreciate the process of existence that brings us beyond nihilism and beyond mantra.

I can't say I'm a Zen Buddhist as such but I think I get what it's about, one can read the wikipedia page on existential nihilism and get the gist of it right away but that's not the same as coming full circle and realizing how nihilism relates to itself and even when you truly grasp the nature of it conceptually that's still not the same as internalizing it emotionally.

An existential nihilist, a Buddha, attains a mental state of objectivity through detachment but I think the detachment itself is worthless if it's not based upon understanding, for example how amorality is not simply the lack of morality but rather the understanding of moral relativity.

As I understand myself I see the avoidance of suffering to be pointless and futile, indeed counterproductive if my goal is to live life to its fullest.

 

[Rook]

Everybody dies at the end of every anime worth watching

Universal spoiler!


Ah well truuly cog you are one mental step ahead of me.

WHile I am a nihilsit and all I have not yet come to terms with my existence, not come to terms with what i whiush to attain in life.

Obvioulsy drunk, so saying: Cog, you are what i wish to be, in a certain context.

 

[onesteptwostep]

Everyone dies at the end of every anime worth watching

Orrr everyone dies and is revived via recreation/time warp/jinxalltheplotisametanarrativeoftheboy'scomingofage

@cog

So if we were to follow up with your idea, we're gonna sort of be a bipolar fusion of a sadist and a hedonist?

edit: gonna musicalize your thoughts

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ginx7WKq5GE

something along those lines?

Well you only need the light when it's burning low
Only miss the sun when it starts to snow
Only know you love her when you let her go

Only know you've been high when you're feeling low
Only hate the road when you're missin' home
Only know you love her when you let her go

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

@cog You should drink more frequently

A Taoist theme and holistic. You sure you're not drinking the kool-aid?

 

[Rook]

Ha!

Pardaox is right

 

[INTPWolf]

I was recently discussing the ending of Technolyze (spoiler warning) the surface world is heavenly but quite dead and the city below is hellish but alive, the whole anime is a nihilistic statement on the futility of life, in the end everyone dies and that's portrayed as the most positive outcome possible which I don't agree with but I'm sufficiently versed in nihilism to understand the perspective.

On the surface people have advanced to a point where they no longer have desire (somehow, it's never really explained) and thus are simply waiting for death, it's the gist of what Schopenhauer and Buddha have to say about the nature of desire and suffering. Without desire there's no suffering but nor is there any motivation, continuing this train of thought the pursuit of happiness is utterly futile at best all we can ever really achieve is relative happiness, the heavenly bliss of absolute happiness is the death of the mind.

However I disagree with Schopenhauer and Buddha that we should live in accordance to the minimization of desire so as to avoid suffering, taken to its extreme that's merely another form of death. Rather I think we should pursue the consolidation of happiness and suffering, some years ago I was suicidally depressed and I've never appreciated the beauty of this world as I did then and I've come to believe that a contrast is necessary to see such things.

As you know if a page is all white or all black no picture can be seen, both shades are needed to resolve the image, likewise both pleasure and pain are necessary for the mind to exist so rather than seeking one extreme (the pinnacle of pleasure and abolishment of pain) I think the ideal state (if indeed there is such a thing) is to maximize both pleasure and pain, both happiness and suffering, it is not to enter heaven but rather be more alive.

Yes I've been drinking, fuck you

The contrast is a very important duality, just as good and evil, light and dark, happiness and sadness. you cannot achieve balance without both, so you must learn to embrace and feel each in its entirety. You can't be happy without experiencing sadness. This is where you learn about yourself in an intimate and complete way. So it is someone who has seen the full spectrum that can truly know oneself and be happy beyond the muddled greyness our society seems to cling to.