the Nothing between two somethings

[preilemus]

Lately I've come to some understanding of a crisis that I've been going through. To put it plainly, I can't understand what the reason is for, well, anything at all. All of my beliefs have been crumbling for the past few months, and now suddenly it seems that the ways I am behaving are no longer relevant. Relevant to the nothingness I now possess. I feel the need to assert myself in tandem with my current state, but that would just be nothing. I don't even know why my body desires to live, because my mind certainly doesn't. that's not to say it desires death, just that it desires nothing; or perhaps it just doesn't desire anything (I think the difference is lost in translation though).

I guess it's important to include that this isn't the thing that i'm truly worried about, but rather how others see this/me. Others might see this as some sort of depression, or mental issue; not the thoughts, but my behaviour which is stemming from this. for some reason I've never really thought about how others see me, just how I would like to think of them seeing me. Now that I actually am, I'm starting to worry a bit. I don't like to be uncomfortable, but maybe it's just something that comes naturally with this: no other's understanding. I'm not too worried about myself actually, and the future is simply a residence in this abyss until I know why the light above should be desired. maybe I'm posting this because I would like to see why others reach for it? I might not listen unless you stand on solid ground though.


(ugh, I probably don't make much sense, but this is the easiest way I can describe myself. I want to be understood, but feel like I'm undermining my own attempts at it. then again, maybe I'm just crazy)

 

[Polaris]

I may sound completely crazy too, but I will give you my rather out-there view upon this matter.

It sounds like you have hit a new level of consciousness. It is a blank page you may want to be open to and accept as part of your personal development. It makes sense to me as I have experienced a similar thing. I don't know if I am making any sense to you at all, either...... But I do understand. You are not crazy, just looking at yourself, or your old self, from the outside. The person looking is the real you, stripped back to your essence.

Then I may be completely wrong. I don't know what you have been through, or anything about you. I can only read between the lines and this is my interpretation. I hope I didn't sound too pompous, but I probably did, argh........

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Yes you are a little crazy. Join the club. It's membership stands at somewhere around 8 billion or so and we gain more than we lose every day. But that has nothing to do with what you said in your post.

So you are turning from a (???) into a nihilist? That would be a rather sane thing to do. So would turning into something else. Who you are, what you feel and what you believe are not meant to remain static. What you are now is not what you will be in the future unless of course you die now. What you are when you die is what you will be forever. Dead.

I guess this is my dickish way of saying relax, whatever you are/think now isn't going to last. Unfortunately that also applies for when you find yourself happy.

 

[Polaris]

Yes you are a little crazy. Join the club. It's membership stands at somewhere around 8 billion or so and we gain more than we lose every day. But that has nothing to do with what you said in your post.

So you are turning from a (???) into a nihilist? That would be a rather sane thing to do. So would turning into something else. Who you are, what you feel and what you believe are not meant to remain static. What you are now is not what you will be in the future unless of course you die now. What you are when you die is what you will be forever. Dead.

I guess this is my dickish way of saying relax, whatever you are/think now isn't going to last. Unfortunately that also applies for when you find yourself happy.

lol....two ways of saying the same thing, only yours was more amusing and less pompous XD

 

[Wish]

What you're going through sounds EXACTLY like what I've been trying to deal with for the past few months. This summed it up beautifully I thought:

I'm not too worried about myself actually, and the future is simply a residence in this abyss until I know why the light above should be desired.

Over the past couple years all that I once perceived as truth, or understood, has been systematically destroyed in my eyes and it leaves this gaping hole where there once resided some sort of purpose (as deluded or idealist as it may have been). This has become much more apparent over the past couple months in regards to how others have been reacting to my behavior (or lack thereof).

I think as you do, that is, I am unable to see any real reason(s) to be happy or to be unhappy. The events of my life as I see them have simply transpired. They are the consequences of being alive to experience them, nothing more or less. It is with this thought process that I have began to feel like a shadow being dragged through the dirt by the chain of life, moving simply because as long as I exist, life does as well. I'm not happy, I'm not sad, I just am. Concerning myself, as you put it, I am merely hoping to one day find a reason to live, not that living is something that I do not necessarily want. In fact, I think it is safe to say that I am only alive right now because to not be alive would require acknowledging that life is not worth having - something I have yet to decide seeing as I do not even understand life as is.

This leads to your second paragraph on being concerned with people's perception of your state of mind, or better yet, how your state of mind is externalized for them to judge. It baffles me to see as many people as I do that have such a strong sense of purpose and a desire to be 'happy' because it is what we 'should' feel. When others see an expressionless face they assume that this person is not living up to the standards of being happy and thus are, like you said, depressed, have a mental issue, etc. Most people that don't know me will assume that I'm depressed simply because I do not share their same desire to be alive (again, that does not translate in to a desire to not be alive), and this is what I think you are also saying (correct me if I'm wrong).

I don't think you are undermining your attempts to be understood, or at least, you shouldn't be (in an ideal world). What others make of our (your?) situation is of no consequence to our own goal of self-realization (or whatever one would like to call it). I also feel, however, that I'm digging a hole for myself by not at least attempting to appear in a more favorable light towards others.

In any case, this apathy can't go on forever..can it?

 

[ckm]

At the risk of also sounding pompous, I think I understand too. I agree that it seems you have hit another level of consciousness, as I feel I have over the last four months.

I guess it's important to include that this isn't the thing that i'm truly worried about, but rather how others see this/me. Others might see this as some sort of depression, or mental issue; not the thoughts, but my behaviour which is stemming from this. for some reason I've never really thought about how others see me, just how I would like to think of them seeing me. Now that I actually am, I'm starting to worry a bit. I don't like to be uncomfortable, but maybe it's just something that comes naturally with this: no other's understanding.

To drag MBTI into this, this part sounds like your Fe playing up.

 

[Agent Intellect]

The most difficult thing one can experience is the collapse of the foundations of ones beliefs. This has happened to me, before, as well. I suppose it's sort of an existential crisis, the loss of what once seemed so important - similar to when some people graduate high school and realize how pointless being popular was, but to a far greater extent.

Nothingness is a difficult sentiment to describe, especially to people who have never experienced it. To me, it has the ability to sap my motivation, but I try to remember my credo:

Situations like this are what has shaped my philosophy on life; realizing how completely absurd it is. I wish I had more advice to give, but all I can offer is that this could be seen as an opportunity to rebuild (a process that I'm currently undergoing after reaching similar conclusions to the OP). What more is there to life then pursuing those things, no matter how few and far between, that pique ones interest?

I think the medicine I had a difficult time swallowing (and perhaps something that would pose a big problem to any idealist INTP) is that what one is doing does not have to be meaningful, so long as one can derive their own meaning out of it.

 

[Starfruit M.E.]

I went through something like that three years ago... I questioned everything I was doing, and I found that it wasn't anything I could stand on. I could no longer defend what I was, and so I stopped trying. So I believed almost nothing for a while, questioning even the things that I had been so sure about before, and then started to build a foundation I could really stand on. I also had counseling for a while because after about a year of this, I did get depressed. But if you pull out of the questioning with answers, all the questioning is really worth it.

 

[loveofreason]

Other People may be the only reason to leave the the state you describe. It does shift in its own course, but the 'desire' for it to shift (for me) only came from the fact that I indeed had folk whose well-being I was accountable for.

And desire is the wrong word, there is no desire for anything from within that nothingness. The needs of others were unwelcome rain on the windowpane, demanding focus; demanding commitment to a point of view. I couldn't actually be touched by those needs but was aware that, from the outside, I was answerable....

That from an external point of view certain actions/performances were required of me, even though they fundamentally meant nothing. I did worry at the time (and the eye of it lasted several months) that I would be forcibly hospitalised, which is an outcome worth moving to avoid if the long-term outcome for other people relies on one's 'freedom'.

Still... can the desire to "reach for the light" come from within? I'd like to have been there long enough to know that... to watch my own responses unfold, not just my reactions to the demands of the world.

Wait... maybe a desire for connection with others was close to it's own expression. I would have to dwell more deeply than I have time for now, in order to thoroughly recreate that time.

 

[preilemus]

thank you everybody for the responses.

I may sound completely crazy too, but I will give you my rather out-there view upon this matter.

It sounds like you have hit a new level of consciousness. It is a blank page you may want to be open to and accept as part of your personal development. It makes sense to me as I have experienced a similar thing. I don't know if I am making any sense to you at all, either...... But I do understand. You are not crazy, just looking at yourself, or your old self, from the outside. The person looking is the real you, stripped back to your essence.

Then I may be completely wrong. I don't know what you have been through, or anything about you. I can only read between the lines and this is my interpretation. I hope I didn't sound too pompous, but I probably did, argh........

don't worry, you make sense though, in case it wasn't clear, I have accepted it as part of my development. In an ideal world, I would be able to fully withdraw while I contemplate this and decide how I am going to proceed with my life. the procession is the decision of direction, essentially. of course until then, I'm going nowhere, which causes problems with others, which cause problems for me.

Yes you are a little crazy. Join the club. It's membership stands at somewhere around 8 billion or so and we gain more than we lose every day. But that has nothing to do with what you said in your post.

So you are turning from a (???) into a nihilist? That would be a rather sane thing to do. So would turning into something else. Who you are, what you feel and what you believe are not meant to remain static. What you are now is not what you will be in the future unless of course you die now. What you are when you die is what you will be forever. Dead.

I guess this is my dickish way of saying relax, whatever you are/think now isn't going to last. Unfortunately that also applies for when you find yourself happy.

I suppose this raises another issue (maybe it's the same? it's more concrete though). if we already know the destination, and know it is absolute and unavoidable, then why does anything along the way matter? you don't need to answer, I'm just musing.


this made me smile (in the good way ). You might be right that it shouldn't concern me what others think. maybe it's just how I am affected by what I think people think. I don't find this disturbing at all, but I think myself from a few months ago might, and I know my family definitely would, so I just assume that nobody should know. Maybe it's also because I shared this with one of my teachers, and their response wasn't exactly understanding.

anyways, I'm glad that others have gone/are going through this too. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't losing my mind or anything


Some good points. I think the main problem is the loss of inherent reason, so theres no more reason to find reason. of course, i guess that can be taken two ways, to say that there is nothing stopping you from doing something percieved irrational? added with chasing your interests, I think I can see what you are getting at. but then looking at the other meaning of the phrase, which is saying that nothing could rationally be pursued (which follows with: and therefore shouldn't), allows the whole thing to collapse again

I went through something like that three years ago... I questioned everything I was doing, and I found that it wasn't anything I could stand on. I could no longer defend what I was, and so I stopped trying. So I believed almost nothing for a while, questioning even the things that I had been so sure about before, and then started to build a foundation I could really stand on. I also had counseling for a while because after about a year of this, I did get depressed. But if you pull out of the questioning with answers, all the questioning is really worth it.

yeah, I figure as much.

Other People may be the only reason to leave the the state you describe. It does shift in its own course, but the 'desire' for it to shift (for me) only came from the fact that I indeed had folk whose well-being I was accountable for.

And desire is the wrong word, there is no desire for anything from within that nothingness. The needs of others were unwelcome rain on the windowpane, demanding focus; demanding commitment to a point of view. I couldn't actually be touched by those needs but was aware that, from the outside, I was answerable....

That from an external point of view certain actions/performances were required of me, even though they fundamentally meant nothing. I did worry at the time (and the eye of it lasted several months) that I would be forcibly hospitalised, which is an outcome worth moving to avoid if the long-term outcome for other people relies on one's 'freedom'.

Still... can the desire to "reach for the light" come from within? I'd like to have been there long enough to know that... to watch my own responses unfold, not just my reactions to the demands of the world.

Wait... maybe a desire for connection with others was close to it's own expression. I would have to dwell more deeply than I have time for now, in order to thoroughly recreate that time.

Basically, becoming reactive. I hope this doesn't sound offensive, but basically reverting to the naturalism of an animal. whether or not our minds desire life, our bodies still do, so I guess nature is the basis that cannot be avoided? basic desires come from nature, while the more 'lofty' ones stem from another kind of nature, one more relative and tempestuous than the base. Sometimes I think sentience is a curse. we build our own natures, whose upkeep comes from our own minds. when the upkeep fails, we fall to the base, and those desires are the only ones left. though I guess if the upkeep can be maintained, then constructed nature can succeed. When it's sustained by others (along with yourself), perhaps it becomes easier. for some reason I view basic nature as 'true' and the synthetic as 'false'. maybe this is my real dilemna, because I want to find the nature that's on the same level as our synthetic ones, but that I can still call 'true'.
looking back, I don't think this relates much to what you were saying, but that's what I got out of it, somehow.

 

[loveofreason]

Life is it's own reason? It's own destination? Some have suggested we consider the view that life may exist for the pleasure of life, that nothing more need be extrapolated.

Eyes exist for the pleasure of being eyes, for taking in light. Lungs exist for the pleasure of breathing, for taking in air.... Looking at it from the body's perspective, there cannot even be a concept of questioning meaning. Or reason to live.

Even down to genetic desire, your code has no directive but it's own propagation. And that, in a way, is a journey of light.

But as you say, throw sentience into it and things become shaky. "...tempestuous".

Are you asking if the cultural directive to live; to conform to socially constructed reality, is enough? Are the expectations of others enough to determine for us what we desire with our minds?

I don't know.

How can the natures we synthesise with our minds be true? Seems impossible, but if we turn it around, and ask "how can the natures we synthesise with our minds be false?", perhaps we are closer to blowing open what the real question is.

I think I sympathise with your position, with the despairing sense that what is socially constructed for us, what arises from our educated minds, is false. I get a similar sense. It overwhelms me to see others worshipping illusion as reality, and then to realise, there is no way I can utterly free myself of illusion and continue to be a three-dimensional human being.

It is a very clever weave that keeps us embedded in the fabric.

 

[Agent Intellect]

All meaning is irrational. Reason only comes after the acceptance of that irrationality. I've touched on this in some other threads, but the way I see it, most rationals attempt to exhaust all reason in the pursuit of a meaningful life, and generally one of three things happens - they exhaust all reason and conclude that meaning must come from a higher source; they exhaust all reason and conclude that life is meaningless and absurd; they exhaust all reason and realize that their axioms are wrong.

The problem with the first two is that they start from reason, the first one accepting an irrational belief simply because reason has failed; the second failing to take irrationality into consideration, instead sticking with the illusion that life must be reasonable.

In my case, I went with the third. I was a Christian until about the age of 18, taking the existence of God axiomatically. I could not reconcile this axiom reasonably, and I ended up disillusioned and going through a phase of nihilism, finding no reason to find any reason - everything I believed to be true collapsed.

I suppose one has to exercise a bit of cognitive dissonance to understand the inherent absurdity and irrationality of life, yet still find fulfillment (using this word on purpose as opposed to meaning). When it comes down to it, the axiom that I base my life's fulfillment on is necessarily irrational, because to base it on any rational approach would be to base it on the absurdity, meaninglessness and nothingness of life.

So, I guess my only advice would be that one has to swallow the pill of irrationality, no matter how difficult that may be for a rational thinker. This is something that I still struggle with on a daily basis, so unfortunately I can't offer too much solace that this philosophy will allow anyone's life to be any more fulfilling.

 

[Kuu]

I love this thread, because this thread is me.

(Fuck it, I can't think of anything else to add to what has been said... I'll just quote stuff that resonates and write if something comes to mind...)

To put it plainly, I can't understand what the reason is for, well, anything at all.

I think as you do, that is, I am unable to see any real reason(s) to be happy or to be unhappy. The events of my life as I see them have simply transpired. They are the consequences of being alive to experience them, nothing more or less. It is with this thought process that I have began to feel like a shadow being dragged through the dirt by the chain of life, moving simply because as long as I exist, life does as well. I'm not happy, I'm not sad, I just am. Concerning myself, as you put it, I am merely hoping to one day find a reason to live, not that living is something that I do not necessarily want. In fact, I think it is safe to say that I am only alive right now because to not be alive would require acknowledging that life is not worth having - something I have yet to decide seeing as I do not even understand life as is.

In any case, this apathy can't go on forever..can it?

I wonder... I wonder.......

I think the medicine I had a difficult time swallowing (and perhaps something that would pose a big problem to any idealist INTP) is that what one is doing does not have to be meaningful, so long as one can derive their own meaning out of it.

The revaluation of all values?... übermensch?

if we already know the destination, and know it is absolute and unavoidable, then why does anything along the way matter?

Some good points. I think the main problem is the loss of inherent reason, so theres no more reason to find reason. of course, i guess that can be taken two ways, to say that there is nothing stopping you from doing something percieved irrational? added with chasing your interests, I think I can see what you are getting at. but then looking at the other meaning of the phrase, which is saying that nothing could rationally be pursued (which follows with: and therefore shouldn't), allows the whole thing to collapse again

I suppose one has to exercise a bit of cognitive dissonance to understand the inherent absurdity and irrationality of life, yet still find fulfillment (using this word on purpose as opposed to meaning). When it comes down to it, the axiom that I base my life's fulfillment on is necessarily irrational, because to base it on any rational approach would be to base it on the absurdity, meaninglessness and nothingness of life.

Isn't that last one ultimately irrational as well...

So, I guess my only advice would be that one has to swallow the pill of irrationality, no matter how difficult that may be for a rational thinker. This is something that I still struggle with on a daily basis, so unfortunately I can't offer too much solace that this philosophy will allow anyone's life to be any more fulfilling.

Yes, I think this is something I struggle to explain to a lot of people that ask me how I feel or what I believe... or those seeking advice from me. In fact I think this is something few people come to experience... and I'm uncertain/ambivalent/apathetic about it. Isn't it ironic that the rational people finally end up with the essential irrationality of life? *chuckles*

The best for last:

How can the natures we synthesise with our minds be true? Seems impossible, but if we turn it around, and ask "how can the natures we synthesise with our minds be false?", perhaps we are closer to blowing open what the real question is.

 

[Vrecknidj]

I have posted on this in a couple places elsewhere.

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?p=130699

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=233

There seems to be something of either a teleological craving going on here, or an acceptance that a teleological craving is over, or something of that sort.

By the way, I think it's perfectly acceptable to leave behind a perspective attached to "But, I want to know what I'm supposed to do with my life" or "My life used to feel meaningful because I believed X" or whatever, and move on to "I have chosen to make X the foundation of my life's meaningfulness," and then pick your own X.

Dave

 

[Da Blob]

There are stages of cognitive growth. The transition between stages can be rather abrupt rather than gradual. The reason for this is that each stage has its own unique Point of View, that may or may not encompass The values, experiences and basic boundaries and definition of the former stages. This is akin to the different planes of Kantian Transcendentalism.

For example, the transition between the Concrete Operations Stage and the Formal Operation Stage begins to occur at puberty and takes varying lengths of time - depending on the individual. To shift from one operating system to another involves the shift of consciousness from a "4-D" to a "5-D" POV.

This can be a source of confusion for many, causing existential and identity crises.
Some Concrete Operational programs will just not run with the new Formal Operations OS, being obsolete for that system - therefore, there has to be an analogue replacement. However, there simple are no appropriate equivalents for some things. So that a person often runs both operating systems, switching back and forth, depending on the external situation.

Historically, there has been a great deal of philosophy written about the nature of the Formal Operation stage of mental growth and I am not sure that any of them are truly valid and reflect the reality of a growing mind....

 

[Polaris]

So, I guess my only advice would be that one has to swallow the pill of irrationality, no matter how difficult that may be for a rational thinker. This is something that I still struggle with on a daily basis, so unfortunately I can't offer too much solace that this philosophy will allow anyone's life to be any more fulfilling.

Unfortunately, this also haunts me in my darkest moments. The rational thinker is a curse in this respect. When I have these moments, the other darker side argues that I'm living a lie, by assigning 'meaning' to the things that I do. It is then a little comforting to know that we do mean very little in the great scheme of things. We are kidding ourselves to think that we are actually important in the light of geological time. We get sentimental about animals and plants going extinct, and fight to save the whales, but it is just another step backwards or forwards in the history of evolution. We will disappear one day, and someone or something else will replace us.

So that leaves me with the rather pathetic notion that I will try to make the best of what I have been given. The human struggle is within me, as with everyone else on this curious planet.

It is natural for human beings to pursue spiritual fulfilment, as life seems so pointless. When I observe people filled with spiritual joy, I secretly think "here is just another person living a lie". It is not a great feeling. I am not proud of it. But I cannot beat the 'rational advocate' in my mind, always whispering in my ear.

Then there are moments where I have sense of peace, such as when I'm in a wild place, or absorbed in the moment of creating something, be it painting, cooking, photography or just listening to music.

I will share this experience I had, when I was going through a kind of "questioning everything-crisis".

I once caught the train up the coast and managed to hitch a ride with a bunch of Indigenous people on the back of their ute, after sharing my sandwich with one of them on the train. I stayed alone in a remote beach shack for about a week. I had no TV, phone or radio, only a couple of books and some food, pen and paper, and my old SLR camera.

The quiet sense of peace that came to me after a couple of days is something that has always stayed with me.

Being alone in this environment with no external reminders of other human activity made me realise how much I had disconnected from my own being. I became aware of every colour, movement and sound. I wrote poetry and went for long walks along the beach with my camera.

It probably sounds a bit curious, but I felt ancient, timeless and connected to everything.

I was never lonely, all the wildlife and noises of nature kept me entertained and alert. I had a frog croaking in the drainpipe every night, and in the morning I watched all the birds feeding and chirping in the bushes around the cabin. Big-eyed possums peered through the windows at night, and I watched majestic pelicans chattering and huddling together in the evening mist on the beach. At night I observed the fluorescence lighting up in the surf, like the Aurora Borealis of the sea.

Whenever I doubt everything, I come back to this time on this remote beach. I still have the poems to remind me. I have to remind myself that I do belong. Even if I feel disconnected from people, I am still connected to that. And one day I will go back to it for good.

 

[Schema]

Beliefs are a tool, they are a useful lens in which to view, navigate and participate on life's big stage. Play with all the beliefs you want - every day I enter the belief shop, there's a whole lot of fun trying and testing them out, make adjustments, find new uses, cast them aside ... just remember to never become their slave.

 

[Wish]

Unfortunately, this also haunts me in my darkest moments. The rational thinker is a curse in this respect. When I have these moments, the other darker side argues that I'm living a lie, by assigning 'meaning' to the things that I do. It is then a little comforting to know that we do mean very little in the great scheme of things. We are kidding ourselves to think that we are actually important in the light of geological time. We get sentimental about animals and plants going extinct, and fight to save the whales, but it is just another step backwards or forwards in the history of evolution. We will disappear one day, and someone or something else will replace us.

So that leaves me with the rather pathetic notion that I will try to make the best of what I have been given. The human struggle is within me, as with everyone else on this curious planet.

It is natural for human beings to pursue spiritual fulfilment, as life seems so pointless. When I observe people filled with spiritual joy, I secretly think "here is just another person living a lie". It is not a great feeling. I am not proud of it. But I cannot beat the 'rational advocate' in my mind, always whispering in my ear.

Then there are moments where I have sense of peace, such as when I'm in a wild place, or absorbed in the moment of creating something, be it painting, cooking, photography or just listening to music.

I will share this experience I had, when I was going through a kind of "questioning everything-crisis".

I once caught the train up the coast and managed to hitch a ride with a bunch of Indigenous people on the back of their ute, after sharing my sandwich with one of them on the train. I stayed alone in a remote beach shack for about a week. I had no TV, phone or radio, only a couple of books and some food, pen and paper, and my old SLR camera.

The quiet sense of peace that came to me after a couple of days is something that has always stayed with me.

Being alone in this environment with no external reminders of other human activity made me realise how much I had disconnected from my own being. I became aware of every colour, movement and sound. I wrote poetry and went for long walks along the beach with my camera.

It probably sounds a bit curious, but I felt ancient, timeless and connected to everything.

I was never lonely, all the wildlife and noises of nature kept me entertained and alert. I had a frog croaking in the drainpipe every night, and in the morning I watched all the birds feeding and chirping in the bushes around the cabin. Big-eyed possums peered through the windows at night, and I watched majestic pelicans chattering and huddling together in the evening mist on the beach. At night I observed the fluorescence lighting up in the surf, like the Aurora Borealis of the sea.

Whenever I doubt everything, I come back to this time on this remote beach. I still have the poems to remind me. I have to remind myself that I do belong. Even if I feel disconnected from people, I am still connected to that. And one day I will go back to it for good.

Jack Kerouac would be proud

 

[Da Blob]

Perhaps I should have tried responding in the "spirit of the thread" more with my first post; instead of trying to explain the reasons for the OP in psychological terms, that may be more or less meaningless to those without any background in such.

Unlike Polaris I have learned to tell the "rational advisor" that sits on my left shoulder to "Shut Up!". So, I can now share the subjective joy of spirituality, unlike the times in my youth, where I too, placed faith in that "rational advisor". Turns out, that the dude is just motivated by jealousy and Has to find fault in the joy of others - to avoid being envious as well...

I live in the country. I can relate to Polaris' beach experience. I just can not help but feel sorry for those many people who have never experienced Peace in this manner or for whom it was only a temporary - fleeting experience...

 

[Vrecknidj]

I had a similar experience to the beach experience described above. It was in 1988 and I was in the mountains of North Carolina hiking with a group of about fifteen others. Most of the others were cranky and frustrated, but I found a peace with the environment and I was quite simply happy. I don't get back to that feeling very often. But once in a while it returns.

Dave

 

[Moocow]

Learning to turn off the purely logical side of perception is an important stage of development for people like us. In the end, you can potentially gain a higher control over your own mind than most people will ever know, never having strayed from their lifelong boundaries of thought.

Besides, if you were truly stuck without meaning, you wouldn't have made this thread to tell us about it. You know that we can never truly "know" you or your experiences, but we're the closest you can find who will understand. It's a grasp for connectivity.

I'm going to go with what the others have said, with similar personal experience of my own. Nature is a good friend to have, and will always provide perspective when our screwed up little social systems become a little too overwhelming and complicated.

Take a walk to a lake, down a river, or through the woods, and let yourself simply exist. Don't worry about logic, explanation, and reason, because they'll never truly explain the whole picture for you, ever. It's pointless to struggle against existence in the name of "reason."

The way I see it, I've been granted a mysterious collection of perceptive human senses, and I won't ever know why. Just enjoy what exists in all of its inconceivability. Play the game, but never forget that it's just a game.

 

[Polaris]

Jack Kerouac would be proud

...........thank you

 

[preilemus]

you have a glass egg, and it's falling. you're watching; not doing anything, but observing as this egg falls, worrying with it as it takes it's course. the moment it hits, it shatters. You scream "It's ruined!" the egg is no longer together in that instant, and everything is falling apart. a second goes by. the egg doesn't mean anything anymore. the peices fall. you accept, but you still want an egg. you take the peices and try to see if you can make a new egg. the bonds are broken. you can 't make an egg anymore. all you have are shards. you stop looking for an egg and see what you now have.


please disregard the above.


Once again, thanks everybody for posting. It really means a lot to me.

 

[Vrecknidj]

So, who or what is the egg? (Or are you not in a place where you can talk about it?)

Dave