The NeuroScience of Typology

[Architect]

Based on his past posts, he may think you could use your results in your person AA thread and therefore cause other "INTP's" to think the results of your "neuro" experiments could be taken as fact.

Still not sure what you're talking about exactly but no matter. At any rate the EEG I'm getting isn't a whole skull like he has and won't use conductive gel (which makes it much more sensitive). It's a band that goes around the head, I'm not sure how many sensors it has - two probably. Also I don't know what the API looks like. I'm guessing it's a simple aggregator.

I'm not expecting empirical results from having one though that would be a bonus. Mainly exploration at this point.

 

[Spirit]

I am ordering the book. I will have a review in about 10 days.

 

[Spirit]

Nardi! Thyne book hath come thither. Thou know'st judgment...



...

 

[TimeAsylums]

Nardi! Thyne book hath come thither. Thou know'st judgment...

just gave the book to my ISTP gf after I finished reading it

congrats, now you have empirical evidence that you're smarter and better than everybody else

No, but seriously, it's a great read.

The most important part I found was for any xxTP (or rather, any Ti>Fe), explains that the areas of the brain that used Ti are mostly excluded by a LOT of other people and that the dissociation that TPs are use to can be explained by the shutting off of the limbic system....


anyway, would love to discuss with you (and others, @Architect), once you (guys) finish reading the book

 

[Ribald]

I definitely have christmas tree brain.

 

[Base groove]

I definitely have christmas tree brain.

Just planted too far away from the power outlet.

:-)

 

[Spirit]

Quick notes so far.

The first few chapters explain his methods. He is quick to point out that more research needs to be done and this is the first of many volumes. He also outlines his methods and techniques while pointing out that other factors contribute to human decision making. Specifically, he is evaluating brain activity in tested "types" and recording the similarities. He spends time talking about personality theory but limits it to Jung, Kersey and Myers Briggs.

Things I like so far.
Brain scans
Learning techniques
Cognitive functions vs brain activated sections
Willingness to recognize that this is an ongoing and important area of study

 

[Spirit]

Ok, finished the book. TA if you have some questions go ahead and ask them.

 

[TimeAsylums]

so, here's what I got out of it: Outtake from a few pages of the book


It gives a great summary and somewhat specific (not too general) for the use of functions and certain regions of the brain/neocortex.

But what's more interesting, is although it doesn't really add anything "truly new" that would change the theory, is that it does add to the complexity.

Across all tasks, few lab participants utilized key reasoning regions (F3, F4, P3, P4)*. Is this okay? In the USA, both traditional and modern educational methods seem to focus on developing region Fp1, which helps us explain and decide. Using Fp1 can provide a semblance of reasoning, but explaining oneself does not equal true use of logic. It appears practicing math is not fulfilling its potential to truly hone students' reasoning skills

*F3- Deductive analyst: follow a chain of logical deductions and backtrack to correct thinking due to reasoning errors. Linearly derive solutions
(F3: Used most by ESTPs, followed by INTPs)


F4- Expert classifier: accurately place concepts by testing them against many categories at once to find a best-fit. Categorize and define concepts
(F4: Used most by INTPs followed by ESTPs)


P3- Tactical Navigator: Integrate physical space, motion, and visual clues to move skillfully through the environment. Integrate visual-kinesthetic data
(Used most by ISTPs followed by ENTPs)


P4- Strategic Gamer: Weigh many pros and cons, risks and uncertainties at once in order to finesse complex situations.holistically weigh numerous pros and cons of many uncertain or sikh factors or options at once to arrive at a single result
(Used most by ENTPs followed by ISTPs)

Sorry for focusing on T's as usual, but that's usually just what I'm interested in:

I'm only putting in the highest used regions and not the rest for brevity


ENTP: Fp2, F7, T3, P4
INTP: Fp1, F3, F4, C3
ENTJ: Fp1, F8, T3, O1
INTJ: Fp2, T3, T6, O1

ESTP: Fp2, F3, F4, P4
ISTP: Fp1 , O2,P3, P4
ESTJ: Fp1, F8, C3, O1
ISTJ: Fp2, F8, T5, O1,

Interesting fun fact(s)...

The STPs were the most linearly logical. (Assuming that's the "hard" Se + Ti)

The TPs, rather, those with Ti in dom/aux were the most capable of shutting of access to the limbic system (the seat of emotion) when attempting to think. Which type took the cake? The INTP of course.

THINGS THAT SHOULD BE NOTED: He specifically studied COLLEGE students AGE 18-25, to NOT have to worry about DEVELOPMENT.

If you have read ANY PersonalityJunkie profiles, it should be noted that Drenth says that people generally

Age 0-20: MAINLY development of dominant function
Age 20-30: you JUST begin your real struggle with the inferior!
30+ if you are LUCKY to survive the Dom-Inf struggle, then you can move on to the real aux-Tert
If you look at the ages of this development period (and still take it generally) and compare it to the students studied (18-25), it should be noted that it is very likely the use of aux isn't in full force.

Continuing, specifically on Ti/Te

(dom/aux, xxTPs)

"Reason multiple ways to objectively and accurately analyze problems."

The Ti types show high use of four regions that afford complex logical reasoning (regions F3, F4, P3, P4). While everyone shows SOME use of these regions, every Ti type shows ongoing, strong activity in at least one of the four, with moderate activity in the others that is either ongoing or occurs during problem solving situations. Comparatively Ti types dedicate themselves to using brain resources that other people tend to neglect.

These four regions are nestled inside the neocortex, away from direct contact with the outside world. Thus, these types can think even when there are visual, auditory, and kinesthetic distractions. This gives their decision making a "deep" or "detached" quality which fits their self-reported tendency to withdraw from the world in order to think thoroughly and clearly. The Ti types are more likely than others to show a dissociated brain state. In a dissociated state, their neocortex shuts out raw emotions in order to enjoy objectivity.

Of all types, Ti types show the least interest in listening.

When Ti types discuss contentious or complex ideas, such as one-on-one debates about politics or philosophy, they may quickly engage all four regions plus executive regions Fp1, Fp2. These regions alight bright red on the EEG monitor, indicating maximal attention to examining a topic from multiple angles - each angle from a different brain region - while integrating the angles into a coherent way as part of explanation or decision.

dom,aux Te, xxTJ

"Manage resources efficiently to quickly decide based on evidence."

Te types often show efficient use of mental energy as they rely on evidence-based decision making.

The Te types rely on four key regions - they show activity in the brain regions for hearing, seeing, recalling, and deciding.

The Te types rely on measurable sensory information.

For Te types, actionable comes before accurate or what-if, Thus quick efficiency may sometimes become a pitfall.

All Te types show high activity in region F8, which handles deeply felt personal values, often expressed in a negative way.

 

[Spirit]

In looking at the comparisons between the case studies brain scans, you could see where the confusion between certain types would cause people to wonder about themselves.

High/high mid sections could make you seem like a different type. Also, it shows that just because you can use an area, it doesn't mean you are working from an area of high stimulation.

Each type has its strengths and you are better suited psychologically and find your flow when you align yourself with your "high" sections. Believe it or not, I have seen this happening in my own life. I also backtracked the highlights of my life and I was using those "skills" when they were happening. Likewise, I struggled when I attempted to operate in the "Low" sections.

 

[Spirit]

Based on your review what are your thoughts on the first post in this thread?

http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=9001

 

[TimeAsylums]

Based on your review what are your thoughts on the first post in this thread?

http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=9001

the second post
http://intpforum.com/showpost.php?p=211998&postcount=2

 

[TimeAsylums]

@spirit, did the book help you decide b/t IxTP at all?

 

[Spirit]

[IDROITE][/IDROITE]

@spirit, did the book help you decide b/t IxTP at all?

Yes, definitely not an INTP. What I share with INTP is the TiFe grip.

I am an ISTP
Looking at the different sections of the brain I proposed a simple test to determine whether is was an ISTP or INTP.

I tested this hypothesis by performing a physical task by trying to sort out a problem. While I performed the physical task bunch of ideas came running to my mind. It's as if my mind came alive and it felt natural. I'm going to do more tests but I see promise.

I can get in the zone quickly by engaging myself physically by seeing something and reacting to it. My processing seems to slow down when I'm trying to explain something while doing it. My guess is that is why ISTP make good responders because they can react and be creative while in motion. I can figure things out by trying them.

Let me point out something I can understand most theories in my mind, but explaining them takes more energy. I sort the information I need to get the job done but to interpret it in a way others can understand I have to do multiple drafts of a topic. Even after all this work someone else would have to make it flow for the masses.

Maybe this is why an ISTP seems like the silent type. Takes too much energy to explain what just makes sense and then have "some loser" tell them they missed a verb or step in the explanation.

I am going to write an ISTP review in my thread. (Edited for you pleasure, ribbed for mine)

 

[Base groove]

and then have some loser tell him he missed a verb or step in the explanation.

I am going to an ISTP review in my thread.

That last sentence there actually appears to be missing a verb.

As "going to" in this context fills the role of an auxiliary verb, the lexical which it supports is missing, although you have conjugated it. I presume the verb I'm referring to is "write".

;-)

 

[Spirit]

That last sentence there actually appears to be missing a verb.

As "going to" in this context fills the role of an auxiliary verb, the lexical which it supports is missing, although you have conjugated it. I presume the verb I'm referring to is "write".

;-)

Lmao, hey I love the people that can do it. Some ISTP may call them losers because other "smart" people may think just because I cannot explain it the way you want or need that I'm not smart. Bias against "s" types specifically.