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The limits of the Mind

Black Rose

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Recently I have been thinking about where dreams come from. My dreams have nothing to do with my real life. They are totally made up random places, people, things and events. I have had lucid dreams about 5 time in my life but not for long periods of time. Today I got the idea that what if you could lucid dream when you were awake. It would be like augmented reality only your brain was doing all the work instead of a computer. Anything you could imagine would appear as a 3D hologram. And you would be in complete control so you would know what is real and what is imaginary.

Is this the greatest possible limit a mind can achieve? What would be the limits of the mind in your opinion?
 

amorfati

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If such a state were to be achieved I would imagine that first one would have to start dreaming night in and night out for a long time in a way that almost exactly mirrored their waking life, to the point where dream and reality would become difficult to tell apart. Then their mind might be in a place that is prepared to perceive waking life in a similar manner as the dream world. This has probably happened before, and I believe even that some sages have warned of the danger of this kind experience, or at least that's what a friend of mine told me who had experienced this same phenomenon.

Experiencing the intense feelings of lucidity in waking life through illusions and being lucid enough to know they are illusions is indeed a really cool idea and does seem possible, but most people in this state would probably slip into full blown psychosis sooner or later.

Very cool idea though. The only way to know the limits of the mind is to be courageous (or stupid) enough to test it out.
 

Saeros

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Recently I have been thinking about where dreams come from. My dreams have nothing to do with my real life. They are totally made up random places, people, things and events. I have had lucid dreams about 5 time in my life but not for long periods of time. Today I got the idea that what if you could lucid dream when you were awake. It would be like augmented reality only your brain was doing all the work instead of a computer. Anything you could imagine would appear as a 3D hologram. And you would be in complete control so you would know what is real and what is imaginary.

Is this the greatest possible limit a mind can achieve? What would be the limits of the mind in your opinion?
You're assuming that this isn't all an elaborate dream? you could be in the matrix. Maybe I don't really exist, and I'm just a part of your unconscious mind that wants to wake up. Open your eyes to the reality of the situation, you're a brain in a vat. Anyway, I don't think that people going into a lucid dream state and walking around would be such a good idea; someone could accidentally walk off of a cliff, or crash their car, etc. It would be awesome in a controlled environment, though.
 

Jesin

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Hmm, depends on the limits of what counts as a "mind", I think.
 

Black Rose

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You're assuming that this isn't all an elaborate dream? you could be in the matrix. Maybe I don't really exist, and I'm just a part of your unconscious mind that wants to wake up. Open your eyes to the reality of the situation, you're a brain in a vat. Anyway, I don't think that people going into a lucid dream state and walking around would be such a good idea; someone could accidentally walk off of a cliff, or crash their car, etc. It would be awesome in a controlled environment, though.

But thats not what I was trying to convey at all. What I was trying to do is to see what the ultimate state of self control over your own consciousness would be. Who cares if I am in a vat or dreaming, thats not the point. The point is what the mind can achieve. How can a mind be expanded to its ultimately potential. Some people I know can close there eyes and see things like its actual there. I cant do that no matter how hard I try. Its just an idea I had because I felt limited in some way. I would like to have extraordinary ability's so I imagine what they would be like.
 

Saeros

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But thats not what I was trying to convey at all. What I was trying to do is to see what the ultimate state of self control over your own consciousness would be. Who cares if I am in a vat or dreaming, thats not the point. The point is what the mind can achieve. How can a mind be expanded to its ultimately potential. Some people I know can close there eyes and see things like its actual there. I cant do that no matter how hard I try. Its just an idea I had because I felt limited in some way. I would like to have extraordinary ability's so I imagine what they would be like.

You're assuming that this isn't all an elaborate dream? you could be in the matrix. Maybe I don't really exist, and I'm just a part of your unconscious mind that wants to wake up. Open your eyes to the reality of the situation, you're a brain in a vat. Anyway, I don't think that people going into a lucid dream state and walking around would be such a good idea; someone could accidentally walk off of a cliff, or crash their car, etc. It would be awesome in a controlled environment, though.

actually, I was just joking about the dreaming thing, but the rest of my post is a genuine response to your 3D hologram idea. Although, If you are dreaming than there are no limits to what you can see and do.

In regards to your other question, I don't think there's anything you can really do. The people who can close their eyes and see things like they're really there were probably born that way. But, idk, maybe you could try meditation? or drugs :)
 

Cognisant

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Deep dreaming (what you don't remember, usually) is memory/behavioural error checking, meaning that when you're dreaming your brain runs a sort of “groundhog day” simulation thus compounding the effect of the day's learning, for example if you burnt yourself on a stovetop you'll re-live the experience over and over in a single night of dreaming thus imprinting a behavioural modification into your neural net, i.e. don't touch hot stovetops. Memories are sorted into long/short term memory by the same trial-&-error validation principal, for example if you meet someone new during the day you'll more than likely learn their name and use it more than once, thus after the “groundhog day” dreaming cycle their name will be firmly imprinted onto your mind, unless you only heard their name in passing in which case you'll probably have forgotten it.

Now wakeful dreaming (stuff you can sometimes remember) is something different, that's when your subconscious thoughts/feelings/creativity surface into your semi-conscious mind, thus creating the almost nonsensical experience of dreaming we all know and love to talk about, although if you're an unhappy person these dreams will be nightmares, think of it as self psychoanalysis, although random nonsense is also a valid viewpoint.

Lucid dreaming is when you realise you’re dreaming while in a wakeful dreaming state, don’t get too excited about it, the feeling of clarity and control is more delusional than actual. There’s something that I can only describe as a one way barrier between the conscious and subconscious, more inherent to the nature of the mind-system than an evolved safeguard imo, either way it stops you from messing with things you shouldn’t be, for example your heartbeat, although I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of being able to stop your heart if you can somehow coax your subconscious to doing it for you.

As for the minds supposed limits, well there’s a operational capacity of course, one you can expand upon by relaxing your body and thus freeing up neurons otherwise occupied with muscle control, then there’s various means of systemizing information into a abstract format, like language for example, thus allowing you to do more with less, i.e. it’s a lot easier to think about 100 if you use the word instead of imagining 100 dots in your mind.
 

CoryJames

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The limits of the mind will only be fully realized when people shake off the shackles of assumed limitations (as cliche as that sounds). Example. Hallucinogens. Prime example of how your brain can "alter your reality". You take acid and you can see sounds, or feel music. You can see things that aren't really there. This is because LSD physically alters the chemical makeup of your mind. However you don't need LSD to do this. For several years now I have practiced achieving immensely deeply relaxed states and can, in about thirty minutes, reach a state where, without falling asleep, I can enter a world that I construct within my mind, and can do whatever I want there. It is like lucid dreaming, but without needing to be asleep. And many other people can do this as well.

People need to grasp the concept that, like Saeros said, what we perceive as reality is only what our brain constructs for us.

At the original poster. What you describe is possible. I don't know if the brain can do it while the person is walking around, as a lot of your brain's capacity would be used interpreting stimuli and controlling your body, but it is probably possible. Anyways, we have all heard about the studies that say we only use (insert small percentage here) of our brains capacity. It is also, as someone already said, probably dangerous.

I doubt anyone will ever fully explore the limits of the mind. In my opinion, the mind is just a central control station for changing external stimuli from electronic impulses into a more understandable form, the same way a computer's operating system changes binary code into pictures and sounds. But we control our computers, and we have become extremely skilled at getting the most out of them. We should try to exercise that control over our own minds, and practice getting the most out of them.
 

Da Blob

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The limit of the mind is imagination.... What are all the phenomena of the Universe - that are beyond human imagination....?

BTW - as far as lucid dreaming - there is a lot more to it, but few invest in becoming adepts...
 

CoryJames

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However, imagination is very limited. It is limited to a reconstruction of things you have already seen or experienced in different patterns or orders. For example, try to imagine a new color.
 

Starfruit M.E.

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When I lucid dream, it's not like real life.

Examples: When someone was chasing me, I turned around and asked why. They said it was because it was time to die. I said okay because I knew it wouldn't do anything to me, and I let them suffocate me. But while they did that, I stepped out of my body and caught it while it died and fell over.
In lucid dreams, I can fly, breathe under water, walk on water, redo scenes if I don't like them, create escapes on demand, etc. And if I spin around, I can keep myself from waking up for another few minutes.
I can also tell if I'm dreaming by trying to read something, then looking up, and reading it again. What I read always changes. Same if I have a watch in the dream and I look at the time. It's always drastically different.

Generally in real life I am quite bound by my physical body, I don't have superpowers, and I'm not usually in great amounts of danger. So I highly doubt that my lucid dreaming, even being awake (which I have actually done twice, but I can't do it on demand as I can with lucidity while asleep), would result in my loosing grip on which was reality.
Even those dreams where I momentarily think I'm awake, I usually figure it out within a minute.
 

Starfruit M.E.

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And I did imagine a new color once while I was in that really colorful area after spinning to stay asleep. It was kind of silver and gray and blue and pink all at the same time but it wasn't purple at all, even though it almost had an essence of purple, and I could kind of see through it if I wanted to. (kind of hard to describe it)

Anyways, the limits of my mind would have to be something else, because I highly doubt I've reached full capacity.
 

CoryJames

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I have never had words in a dream to even try to read. I tried to write once, and what my hand was doing was not the same as what was coming out on the paper.
 

Marbas

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For example, try to imagine a new color.
That's not exactly a fair trick. That's like asking someone to visualize a four-dimensional object without resorting to projections. The human neural system just isn't equipped to do something like that.

(Assuming you mean imagine something that isn't on roygbiv)
 

CoryJames

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It applies to everything. You can't imagine anything that you don't already know.
 

Jesin

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That's not exactly a fair trick. That's like asking someone to visualize a four-dimensional object without resorting to projections. The human neural system just isn't equipped to do something like that.

I expect that would actually depend on what you mean by "visualize". Since our visual perception works in three dimensions, then yes, four-dimensional visualization would strictly be impossible simply because it does not conform to our definition of the word "visual".

With extensive training and practice, though, I think it should certainly be possible to develop an intuitive feel for a four-dimensional system, to the point where one can perform basic 4D simulations in one's head.
 

CoryJames

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I expect that would actually depend on what you mean by "visualize". Since our visual perception works in three dimensions, then yes, four-dimensional visualization would strictly be impossible simply because it does not conform to our definition of the word "visual".

With extensive training and practice, though, I think it should certainly be possible to develop an intuitive feel for a four-dimensional system, to the point where one can perform basic 4D simulations in one's head.


I disagree. I am a person who is very interested in the power of the mind and I have tried to do things like that several times. Maybe I am weak minded, but I don't think it is possible.
 
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