I come across this stereotype of the "lazy INTP" all the time, and more often than not, it seems, it is pushed by INTPs themselves. Yet, in my experience, INTPs are not at all "lazy". My university classes were filled with NTs, including many INTPs, and most of them worked hard and did well. The guy at the top of my class, for example, went on to MIT to do a PhD. He was a total keener, not "lazy" in any sense.
So is this stereotype of the "lazy INTP" really just a myth? Is it possible the ones who are lazy are disproportionately represented in MBTI and on sites like this where they give us a false impression of the type? Or are INTPs really "lazy"?
Yes it's been discussed here quite a bit. To an SJ, or even an SP the INTP appears very lazy, but in reality we're working differently since we care less about tangible results and mundane details. Additionally ...
People with Introverted Thinking can be seen as wanting to do things that are “the most effective for the least amount of work.” Some people may see this as laziness, however, it’s a form of perfectionism most Ti users have.
They are not "lazy"
They just procrastinate stuff that are already solved or not particularly interesting to them.
Say, for example i am very bad at mathematics because it doesn't interest me. So i don't study it (and fail).
On the other hand, i am probably one of the top students in my university when it comes to programming/computers because that's what fuels my mind.
I'd guess it's the same for the INTP's in your university classes, they are chasing after what they like and they are good at it. Now ask them to wash the dishes and see what happens
from my perspective, laziness is absence of Se and does not entail intellectual laziness, but real life omissions, never carrying out the trash, not getting a job if it can be avoided, in favor of intellectual pursuits, daydreaming or anything. i know Si can be diligent in it's own way, collecting stamps and what not, but can also be seen as lazy because it does procrastinate a lot of major actions that might amount to life changing decisions, that might make you feel like things get out of hand. laziness is one of those common sense words, it's definition is mostly cultured by sensors and extroverts. all introverts are somewhat lazy.
I prefer "unmotivated". I believe true lethargy outside of disorders is a either a myth or rare, and that every person has something they devote physical or mental energy to.
So when a person seems lazy towards life they are really unmotivated by conventional aspects, they haven't yet discovered their personal impetus for valuing mainstream culture, if they ever will.
In a sense, yes: INTP is one of the laziest types, if not the laziest.
Laziness is seen as opposite from hard work, but often the problems are already solved in the TiNe mind, and working hard is then wasteful or unnecessary. Many an INTP can BS his/her way through tests and essays having read the wikipedia pages on the topic the night before and get an A just as good as the hard-working-SJ-next-door's A. Studying a half hour every afternoon like high school teachers suggest is pointless (perhaps an oversimplification, but I hope my point stands).
I agree with nanook; if extraverts and sensors dictate what is good work and what is laziness (and it seems that they do, and to a great degree), then introverts and intuitives get the short end of the stick.
With a sufficiently open mind one can come to the analogous conclusion that ESXXs as a group are as lazy regarding their intellects and networks of knowledge as INXXs as a group are commonly considered.
So is this stereotype of the "lazy INTP" really just a myth? Is it possible the ones who are lazy are disproportionately represented in MBTI and on sites like this where they give us a false impression of the type? Or are INTPs really "lazy"?
I don't think it has anything to do with being lazy though it can appear that way. I find most INTP question 'the point of it all' constantly. We wonder about the point behind doing anything and everything. So we essentially are in our own way in terms of being an attribute to society. I for instance am considered lazy because I am not currently in college at 20 years old, and if I was my grades would be sub par. I don't care about being a productive member of society because I don't agree with the system, and I don't want to be a cog in the wheel. Sometimes I don't even think I'm real, so I don't care whether I go to college or not. I feel as though I'm living in a illusion. Mental disorder, or laziness? you choose.
I put in more work than most when driven by pure inspiration. Otherwise I view "hard work" as a symptom of some pathology rather than something to be proud of.
I put in more work than most when driven by pure inspiration. Otherwise I view "hard work" as a symptom of some pathology rather than something to be proud of.
I am more apathetic than lazy. I've come to learn not to care. Might be some form of depression. Before the apathy, there was laziness.
Laziness comes with a starting knack for efficiency. Being able to put things off until the last moment and then produce something of great quality helped me greatly back in high school. I know all of the possible shortcuts. I know what they will be looking for, and how to achieve it with the minimal amount of effort.
Edit:
Tomorrow - in just a few hours - I will need to know:
The entire anatomy of the human spine (not fun)
50 years of in-depth US History (later half of the 1800s)
The history and major families of Florence
I have not started on a single one. If I'm lucky, I'll become more lazy than apathetic soon.
INTPs by their definition, are lazy. INTJ is the one you are looking for. Reasoning being that INTJ uses Te, which is the working function. A Te dom would be out working. For example, my INFP mother has to do a lot of accountant work. I would never do that kind of stuff. I'm too lazy.
It's not true. I work harder than most people when I actually want something and it just so happens that the things I want require very little physical exertion - so even if I'm doing it, it appears like I didn't really do anything or people mistakenly think I "have it easy". Although I do get stuck thinking too much beforehand which holds me back for a bit, but once I get started I can go all day and forget about eating.
Generally speaking, I don't prioritize action. I put unimportant things off until the last minute. Like shoveling snow from the driveway - I'll do it only when I absolutely have to, but by that time a more 'efficient' person has already taken care of it which results in everyone thinking I'm lazy. I am more motivated to do something when I feel the need to do it, it's easy that way.
...Generally speaking, I don't prioritize action. I put unimportant things off until the last minute. Like shoveling snow from the driveway - I'll do it only when I absolutely have to, but by that time a more 'efficient' person has already taken care of it which results in everyone thinking I'm lazy. I am more motivated to do something when I feel the need to do it, it's easy that way.
Lol... oh, been there, done that. I've had to adjust my interaction style a bit when living with others so that I ended up doing my overt fair share of things, since the more proactive types typically can't wait as long as me.
Anyway, I think the gist is that our work is more "internal" versus external. I spend a lot of energy INSIDE but tend to severely minimize my external efforts -- basically so the energy can be redirected to my inner world. If anything is worth doing, it's still worth doing it efficiently, and I can wait for something things until right when it needs to get done rather than being super proactive.
(It depends on how big a thing it is; for big stuff that I can't afford to take a risk on, I'll do it earlier so as to still get it done even if something goes wrong.)
We aren't really lazy just bored and unmotivated, at least that's how it is for me. If I'm bored with a subject in school, I won't do the homework. Or I keep telling myself "you'll do it tonight before bed" which never happens.
from my perspective, laziness is absence of Se and does not entail intellectual laziness, but real life omissions, never carrying out the trash, not getting a job if it can be avoided, in favor of intellectual pursuits, daydreaming or anything.
I can see how people see me as lazy because I'm totally disorganized, never on time, and can't be bothered to do things that I don't find interesting...which gets me in a lot of trouble and makes me seem elitist.
Getting my general ed classes done in college was difficult. I failed biology and public speaking 3 times each because my brain is all and has an allergy to boredom. I'd spend all my free time working on research for the things I was interested in and then fall behind in the boring classes. My grades for the first couple of years were all As and Fs. I'm still in communication with my philosophy professors today and write papers, attend conferences even though I'm not currently enrolled in a MA program. So it's not that I'm lazy...it's the boredom allergy.
The INTPs I know that are successful have pursued careers in research/academia and computer programming. Because they are so obsessively interested in what they do they look like hard workers. But it's way different from SJ "hard work" in terms of the motivation. And most of them are still total slobs in everything else or pay people to do the things they hate to do.
The "lazy INTP" stereotype is neither fact nor fiction, but a reality caused by those INTPs who choose, for one reason or another, to perpetuate their own inactivity.
The INTPs I know that are successful have pursued careers in research/academia and computer programming. Because they are so obsessively interested in what they do they look like hard workers. But it's way different from SJ "hard work" in terms of the motivation. And most of them are still total slobs in everything else or pay people to do the things they hate to do.
Bingo! It's a mistake to think that INTP's can't get a lot done or stay focused; maybe they're just obsessive. I am, a friend (who is profoundly bipolar) says I'm borderline bipolar. I don't know, when a psychological condition gets classified as a spectrum who's to know the difference, but I obsess about whatever computer problems I come across in life.
...Anyway, I think the gist is that our work is more "internal" versus external. I spend a lot of energy INSIDE but tend to severely minimize my external efforts -- basically so the energy can be redirected to my inner world...
Yeah, when I'm INT-Peeing, I pile on the dishes like it's Jenga and wait till the homicide detectives come knocking at my door. I tell them the cat's been missing for a few days, and do they have a warrant? Cups of cheese-milk or chili are the worst, but if you can find it/them you can buy yourself maybe 3 to 5 more days?
i know Si can be diligent in it's own way, collecting stamps and what not, but can also be seen as lazy because it does procrastinate a lot of major actions that might amount to life changing decisions, that might make you feel like things get out of hand. laziness is one of those common sense words, it's definition is mostly cultured by sensors and extroverts.
The laziness thing gets to me as well. It is something that was beaten into me from a very young age; one could not sit around if there were practical things to do. I think my incessant restlessness stems from the constant feeling of guilt for doing something that was not approved as productive.
Reading philosophy? Waste of time, read Gone with the Wind. Attempting to understand abstract concepts? Waste of time, stick to concrete, tangible things that are easy to understand and can be applied to reality. Watching contemporary art shows or films? Waste of time, and a source of moral depravity. Here, this picture has a beautiful sunset. How is that boring, are you crazy?
No, the right things to be interested in were working hard to get a profession:
"you should become a physiotherapist, they are in demand and it is a concrete, people-oriented sensible thing to do".
"Ah, this profession would suit you because you are good at languages."
"You are good at art. You should pursue it as a hobby"
- eh, my art SUCKS donkey's balls because I have no expression.
"But you make beautiful paintings, the colours are beautiful and that tree looks real!"
-Yaaaaaaaaaawwnnnnnn
To my mother's credit, she was just doing her job as a mother.
That is, German ESTJ mother who grew up under very harsh conditions in post-war Germany. She raised us according to the principles that were appropriate at the time, and they were tough, because tough made tough. Or something. Maybe I am tough, haha. And lazy.
JW said:
Anyway, I think the gist is that our work is more "internal" versus external. I spend a lot of energy INSIDE but tend to severely minimize my external efforts -- basically so the energy can be redirected to my inner world.
I'd spend all my free time working on research for the things I was interested in and then fall behind in the boring classes. My grades for the first couple of years were all As and Fs.
I would collect just about anything when I was younger and my partner sometimes gives me that "oh no Aspie" look when I spend more time at the beach analyzing grains of sand and picking up stuff than swimming, sunbathing or looking at the scenery. In a sense I have never lost the childish curiosity which is probably why science is a befitting career path; it's a process where I get to discover connections and how systems work without having to worry about emotional decision making because you have to let go of the attachment to the transient nature of conclusions you may draw and stick to the information you have at hand at the time, until more information or new evidence is supplied. It is a self-critical never ending meta-process which keeps me on my toes and thus highly interested.
Procrastination is often the result of too much information. I take in a lot of information at once, and at any moment that information is likely to render me somehow paralyzed as I go through one option after the other and tend to find them as valid as each other until I have more information. Once a system is in place, it is easier to see the connections, but you sort of have to make the connections to produce a system and that is the challenging part. so I end up obsessing over details in order to fit in more variables - and here is where it can become...err....pathological in that I forget my physiological needs such as sleeping, going to the toilet or intake of nutrients and water.
The papers I produce are the result of this obsessive process which is usually left to the last minute as I had to get the full picture before I could get myself to write anything at all -- and then I just cannot stop writing.
The problems start when I am lacking in these challenges; I sit around browsing the interblargh for hours on end, thinking about interesting stuff when I could be doing one hundred other useful things. I have these things in my head constantly because there's the issue of cause and effect: I need to get to the end point where I will again be met by the mental challenges, but to get to that end point I have to go through a series of boring implementary actions that are just...so...boring.
Decide on a project? Ugh.
Applying to the right institution to realise the project? Ugh.
Finding a job to support the above pursuits? Ugh.
Cleaning the house? Ugh.
Cooking? Ugh.
Doing my tax return? Ugh.
Going out to buy oil paint and canvas for the art project that I have been thinking about for the last three months? Ugh.
Making that appointment I got a referral for x months ago? Ugh.
The longer the list, the more intense the procrastination -- because where do I start? At the damn beginning, you goose.
I know once I get started I'm okay -- the momentum is back.....but it is the getting started part that remains so damn elusive.
I hate tax returns. If not especially because of all the details and crap I have to be sure to have on hand.
Ditto with the long list of things; it gets overbearing.
It would be a funny thread to start "List of things that really need to get done, but haven't"
Sometimes, I catch an interesting idea to play with. Then I'll obsessively think about it until I find an outlet somewhere to dispose of it.
During the thinking obsession, I'm rendered pretty-well useless. Eyes are glazed over, I'm not listening, or even aware of what I'm currently doing. Everything on autopilot, while I play in my head. And I'm very deep in there.
I think it's gotten to be a very bad habit now. Being aware of what I'm doing, and actually doing stuff can sometimes cause tension and stress, especially when I'm not sure there's any end to it.
Always looking forward to that time where I'm by myself, building my ideas into actuality.
Well my ESTJ father can wash dishes faster than anything I have ever seen. Its like some sort of kung fu sorcery. You step away for just a moment and you would swear someone stole all of your silverware if for not seeing it placed neatly away. But one word about going out and buying a dish washing machine and he gets as lazy as can be. I like to make sure there aren't any knives placed in the dishes in case he ever slips up and cuts himself.
He's getting old and might have arthritis setting in so its not good to be taking up such physical tasks. But his own hands are a resource themselves that he does not acknowledge much like the water. If I go to do dishes he might go do laundry or take a shower or perhaps both. Now how in the hell can someone wash dishes with no water pressure!?
The thing about INTP is that we are creative enough to eliminate work and destroy jobs and there are lots of luddites whom would oppose us given the chance to establish bureaucracy.
I don't know what my subconscious is doing, but I find the most difficult problems at work are always solved by not thinking about it and playing games/reading a book.
I'll just ignore the problem, and then the next time I look at it, voila.... solution just comes to me some how.
Sure does look like laziness / procrastination though; I just consider it my process
Dunno, I actually think the problem is a lot of the people on this forum are nerds.
Being a nerd/being immature is an issue whether you are an INTP or an ISFP or an INTJ or an ESTP for what it matters. I actually know an ESTP nerd lol, it's so weird.
I believe that it's just that INTPs are statistically immature because of their fear of conflict and habit of closing off. But if we had to face reality (i.e. dunno, cooking, washing, doing physical works, convincing people to give us a certain job, having some politics skills, watch out after our children y'know everyday stuff, life in general) most of this would actually vanish.
That's my 2 cents
EDIT: that came out harsh lulz... it's late and I have to sleep, but, well, that's the way I feel about myself and a lot of "INTPs" I met on the internet
The laziness thing gets to me as well. It is something that was beaten into me from a very young age; one could not sit around if there were practical things to do.
Yes, I remember sitting on the couch, thinking deeply about something, and my mother coming in and yelling at me to get outside and do something. It's not all bad, at least I learned to pick up instead of just standing while talking. Much more efficient.
I think my incessant restlessness stems from the constant feeling of guilt for doing something that was not approved as productive.
Could be, however INTP's are naturally restless too generally, I believe.
too familiar ...
Reading philosophy? Waste of time, read Gone with the Wind. Attempting to understand abstract concepts? Waste of time, stick to concrete, tangible things that are easy to understand and can be applied to reality. Watching contemporary art shows or films? Waste of time, and a source of moral depravity. Here, this picture has a beautiful sunset. How is that boring, are you crazy?
No, the right things to be interested in were working hard to get a profession:
"you should become a physiotherapist, they are in demand and it is a concrete, people-oriented sensible thing to do".
"Ah, this profession would suit you because you are good at languages."
"You are good at art. You should pursue it as a hobby"
- eh, my art SUCKS donkey's balls because I have no expression.
"But you make beautiful paintings, the colours are beautiful and that tree looks real!"
-Yaaaaaaaaaawwnnnnnn
To my mother's credit, she was just doing her job as a mother.
Taking the flip side, it is true that in the conventional sense INTP's are rather lazy, and I'm not convinced that having cattle prods in our lives is a bad thing. I mean really, say you had a nice little house, with all the entertainments you could need plus computers and an internet connection, with zero accountability. Wouldn't you just quietly get nothing done? It's a common warning to INTP's that they actually need to bring their ideas out into the world.
"I am lazy when a task or chore does not interest me."
^This.
Plus there are problems of not appearing to be motivated, problems caused by personality types that confuse industry with activity, excitement and noise (ever see those skitter bugs going across a muddle puddle? Lots of activity but it's still just a mud puddle, right?), and problems caused by true indifference to a particular outcome.
Give me something that intrigues me, though, and I'll chip away at it relentlessly, even enduring tedious detail if that's what it takes.
My mother had me thoroughly convinced that I was the most useless, lazy person that ever existed on the planet. Later in life I've put extraordinary effort into my education, and I think she's finally understood and even acknowledged that I am certainly not lazy when it concerns things I am interested in. In fact, I think she is actually proud of me now.
Taking the flip side, it is true that in the conventional sense INTP's are rather lazy, and I'm not convinced that having cattle prods in our lives is a bad thing. I mean really, say you had a nice little house, with all the entertainments you could need plus computers and an internet connection, with zero accountability. Wouldn't you just quietly get nothing done? It's a common warning to INTP's that they actually need to bring their ideas out into the world.
Oh yes, I totally agree. I have been there and done that. Done nothing, that is. What is keeping me in lockdown mode at the moment is the fact that I know I'm going to have to do something very mundane in order to keep progressing.
EditorOne said:
Give me something that intrigues me, though, and I'll chip away at it relentlessly, even enduring tedious detail if that's what it takes.
I mean really, say you had a nice little house, with all the entertainments you could need plus computers and an internet connection, with zero accountability. Wouldn't you just quietly get nothing done? It's a common warning to INTP's that they actually need to bring their ideas out into the world.
Yep, this is my life dream alright.
All i need is a small house, food, a computer with working internet to spend the rest of my life with.
Alas, there is no prince in a white ferrari coming to rescue the ladies..
I've heard it attributed to Ne. I believe Paul James beautifully said that it's a tug of war between Ti and Ne - AJ Drenth has said something similar. Ti, being a judging function, wants closure but Ne wants openness, and is always upsetting the apple cart at any rate. Looking to Ne dominants such as our extraverted cousins - the ENTP's - shows characters that appear even more restless than we are. They often can't seem to settle down to anything (though I do know an ENTP CS professor who has found this), which is distressing to some I've talked to. So I'll attribute it to the Ti-Ne dichotomy.
Many types appear to have this which makes sense since we all have a judging-perceiving top pair, except I've not seen an ESJ with it. Well look at their stack, ESTJ is Te-Si and Si is not much of a perceiving function in this sense. It looks to present detail and the past, so is not very oriented towards openness.
My mother had me thoroughly convinced that I was the most useless, lazy person that ever existed on the planet. Later in life I've put extraordinary effort into my education, and I think she's finally understood and even acknowledged that I am certainly not lazy when it concerns things I am interested in. In fact, I think she is actually proud of me now.
Yep, this is my life dream alright.
All i need is a small house, food, a computer with working internet to spend the rest of my life with. Alas, there is no prince in a white ferrari coming to rescue the ladies..
I've got that, worked hard for 20 years to get it. Nice, new house with a home cinema (projector big screen), exercise room, gardens, nearby grocery store and trails, a tight back yard with two decks, and a three room home office with attached bathroom.
It's not enough. Without meaningful work it's just a turn at the country club. But, it does help enable meaningful work.
We're thorough. Being thorough requires concentration and focus to cover all the possibilities, which requires calm, and time.
Society is now both in a rush, and apt to pressure when things aren't going as quickly as they'd hoped.
Those who value our thoroughness and our attention to detail, have nothing but praise for us, and happily bend over backwards to accommodate us. It's excessive. But that's how rare it really is to find someone who fits the way of thinking of an INTP, and that's how valuable they find us to be.
Bell Labs was INTP heaven. Most of them were mathematicians. They were allowed to think about whatever they wanted, as long as when another department had a question, they promised to think about it. Can you imagine? Yet, while just playing around, they came up with the transistor, the laser, the computer mouse, Unix, C, and C++, just to name a few.
I don't think I'm lazy, but I certainly lack motivation from time to time. Especially when stuck in a routine. I have also been known to procrastinate unsavory tasks.
I've always thought of laziness as being something very encompassing. Like being unwilling to do for yourself, and being unwilling to do for others.
I may have a day of the "fuck its" and I may have some piles of papers that live in my blind spot, but I do what needs to be done, I am always moving toward some goal, and I am always willing to pitch in/lend a hand when I'm needed.
But if we had to face reality (i.e. dunno, cooking, washing, doing physical works, convincing people to give us a certain job, having some politics skills, watch out after our children y'know everyday stuff, life in general) most of this would actually vanish.
I wash, have a job (a minimum wage job, and one I'm not even suited for) and work-out a little. I remain a nerd. What is it that you think would "vanish"? Laziness?
Or more accurately I lack sufficient motivation and self confidence to keep working at something after my initial enthusiasm starts to wane. The only thing that brings back my energy is intelligent conversation with other people. Somehow it makes me feel less empty and dead inside than I usually do.
Also I've been depressed since I was like eleven which may be part of the problem.
I don't think it has anything to do with being lazy though it can appear that way. I find most INTP question 'the point of it all' constantly. We wonder about the point behind doing anything and everything. So we essentially are in our own way in terms of being an attribute to society. I for instance am considered lazy because I am not currently in college at 20 years old, and if I was my grades would be sub par. I don't care about being a productive member of society because I don't agree with the system, and I don't want to be a cog in the wheel. Sometimes I don't even think I'm real, so I don't care whether I go to college or not. I feel as though I'm living in a illusion. Mental disorder, or laziness? you choose.
If it happens to be NTJ... I have very little ambition to lead but I Iike to energise people with the nerdy topics so be careful out there. It is amazing how much liveliness an ENTP teacher can bring to mathematics lessons and being socially awkward when it is over.
For me that's fact; I'm terribly lazy but then I want to become great becaue I realize that sole success means nothing if not history success... In between those extremes there is stress/ intensity/ restlessness/ ambition
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and has an allergy to boredom. I'd spend all my free time working on research for the things I was interested in and then fall behind in the boring classes. My grades for the first couple of years were all As and Fs. I'm still in communication with my philosophy professors today and write papers, attend conferences even though I'm not currently enrolled in a MA program. So it's not that I'm lazy...it's the boredom allergy. 
