The INTP Personality: Did you get ripped off?

[Morel Panic]

One of the consistent patterns I've noticed in all forms of personality analysis is that the different types are never really compared as being better or worse. Sure, they all have their pros and cons, but it seems a bit TOO convenient for them all to be equally good.

(Bear with me here as I present my "research", I promise that I'll have some deep insightful conclusions for you to comment on (or at least make fun of).)

Psychologists have long researched phenomenon caused by the most objectively "wrong" brain chemistry: Schizophrenia, Autism, Bipolar disorder, etc. Though these conditions are passed on genetically, much like "personality type", they work mostly on a different genetic "level", so to speak, than "personality type" does (e.g. these disorders seem to work through their own special genes, working by short-circuiting the genes that normally shape the core of a person's "personality", and are therefor (mostly) independent of it).

Recently though, the symptoms of newly identified mental illnesses/disorders seem to clash more and more with the traits of the basic "personality types". Examples of such disorders are Schitzoid, Asprengers Syndrome, and ADD/ADHD. These "disorders" are classified as "inferior" to a "standard" mental state in the same way that disorders like Schizophrenia are.

The weird thing though, is that, with the advent of these new personality disorders, the "standard" mental state seems to be in the process of being redefined. I have seen at least 4 or 5 threads addressing the connection between the INTP personality and the Schitzotypical/Schitzoid/A.S. disorders. So what's the deal? My understanding is that I'm not the only one who doesn't know exactly what's going on (psychologists still seem to be fighting over this topic), so I feel perfectly qualified to present my ideas. Here are my possible conclusions (and questions to go with them):

1. INTP=Schitzoid or INTP=A.S: INTP is an inferior personality type, since it is also a disorder

-Will psychologists just keep declaring personality types to be defective till there's only one left?
-If so, which type?​

2. A.S., Schitzoid, etc. are independent of "personality type": INTPs and other disorders just appear similar on the surface. They are really caused by completely separate phenomenon.

-If this is the case, what is the difference?​

3. Psychologists are wrongly calling certain "disorders" are disorders and are actually claiming people who are of perfectly sound mind are screwed up.

-Where do you draw the line between having a "normal" personality and being on the level of a schizophrenic?​

4. Everybody is screwed up. What conditions are "healthy" is dependent exclusively on how other people are (If everyone is antisocial, antisocial behavior is healthy. If everyone is schizophrenic, schizophrenia is healthy).

-...​

5. I have no idea what I'm talking about

-This is the only thing I know is at least somewhat true... What am I missing?​

 

[Anthile]

I think that disorders are seperate from personality type but that people with certain disorders can look like INTPs (especially ENTPs, INTJs and INFPs).

 

[ohrtonz]

Those living on emotions and irrationality cannot comprehend our logic and thus call us crazy because either they don't understand and are afraid or because the logic brings out something they can relate to and they are afraid of someone figuring them out. The same way we do not understand how people can live without logic. We don't understand each other. But I think logic is a higher ground and any personality that has strong logic and observation is better than an emotional, vague, and non-concrete one that isn't capable of solving problems.

Then there is some other thing I read about how our brains trick us all into thinking we are better, no matter what personality or how dumb we really are.

 

[Beat Mango]

Yeah I've been thinking about this recently: what is a disorder, what is madness, etc. My short conclusion because I'm going to bed soon is that it's "all of the above". Personality types and personality disorders are not unrelated, but they're not exactly the same thing either. I'm also trying to work out what the actual relationship is because you're right, it's not very clear at the moment.

 

[Vatroslav]

Wait... but since when we all have a disorder? I am an INTP, and I'm perfectly healthy... (at least it looks like...)

But, I learned the ways of socializing, have very high self-confidence, and never been depressed...

 

[Vatroslav]

...and I think I developed the "feeling" function.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

1. INTP=Schitzoid or INTP=A.S: INTP is an inferior personality type, since it is also a disorder

-Will psychologists just keep declaring personality types to be defective till there's only one left?
-If so, which type?​

​

I've heard from a few INTPs that they were introduced to the MBTI and their INTP personality by psychologists and therapists. I hope that means they recognize it as being normal...

2. A.S., Schitzoid, etc. are independent of "personality type": INTPs and other disorders just appear similar on the surface. They are really caused by completely separate phenomenon.

-If this is the case, what is the difference?​

​

I agree with this the most. Poorly developed INTPs might appear like mild Schizoids, Aspergers, etc but we have the capability to overcome it!

One thing, however, is a rise in Autism recently. Some people lead this to engineers being able to marry eachother (before recently women were hardly ever in these kinds of fields). So when you have two engineers producing prodigeny, you tend to get autistics kids. The general pseudo-science conclusion is that engineers have very mild autism, which makes them good at what they do (also socially awkward).

3. Psychologists are wrongly calling certain "disorders" are disorders and are actually claiming people who are of perfectly sound mind are screwed up.

-Where do you draw the line between having a "normal" personality and being on the level of a schizophrenic?​

Plenty of people may legitimately have ADD/ADHD. But I also know of plenty of people who are normal, and can get Adderol prescribed to them. (So they can use it recreationally, academically, or just sell it.)

4. Everybody is screwed up. What conditions are "healthy" is dependent exclusively on how other people are (If everyone is antisocial, antisocial behavior is healthy. If everyone is schizophrenic, schizophrenia is healthy).

-...​

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society". Jiddu Krishnamurti

5. I have no idea what I'm talking about

-This is the only thing I know is at least somewhat true... What am I missing?​

​

No one has any idea what they're talking about.

 

[Toad]

We are cursed...

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

cursed.....with the ninja personality!

 

[Morel Panic]

cursed.....with the ninja personality!

I kind of wish I was cool enough to say I have a ninja personality (), but I have always thought of ninjas as being more down-to-earth and living-in-the-moment.

Maybe I could be a schizod ninja...

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

there are many types of ninjas, plain ninjas, tree ninjas, earth ninjas, flying ninjas, intellectual ninjas, invisible ninjas, teenage mutant ninja turtles, Chuck Norris, etc.........

the best weapon is the mind, it is stronger than 1000 nuclear bombs

 

[Morel Panic]

there are many types of ninjas, plain ninjas, tree ninjas, earth ninjas, flying ninjas, intellectual ninjas, invisible ninjas, teenage mutant ninja turtles, Chuck Norris, etc.........

How do you become an invisible ninja? This sounds like the most useful of the bunch
( __ <- "invisible ninja" smiley )

 

[Wisp]

I disagree wholeheartedly with the idea both that there are 'inferior' or 'superior' types, and also with the idea that logic is better than feelings, or even that feelings are vague and insubstantial.

INTPs are a far cry from schizoids. We have mood swings like everyone else, but I do not exhibit any symptoms of schizophrenia, by a long shot, at least, I don't think so. Certain types could be more likely to develop disorders, though.

Logic is a tool, but, like every other tool, it has useful applications and stupid applications. For example, try to serve soup with a screwdriver. Logic and emotions are two functions of the human psyche that do more or less the same thing, and act as a foil to each other: they both decide what to do, based on the information they can gather. Logic acts as a function to examine things using a quasi-objective standpoint. Emotions act as a gateway to your subconscious, and your instincts, and provide much of the coloration of life. Emotions are brilliant ways to tell you what you have not figured out by using logic. Because you are you, you cannot look at yourself objectively, rendering logic next to useless in the scrutiny of the self. You cannot get a scope of yourself to see objectively, because you are all you could ever imagine. To be able to logically examine yourself would be to transcend yourself, which is impossible, short of Cognisant-esque robotification. Emotions are the pathway by which you imagine everything related to you. It tells you what youthink and feel. Logic determines what's happening in the world and why. Emotion tells you how you feel about what's happening. Logic and emotion meld together in a mixture that varies from human to human, part of what determines who we are.

Why would you cut off all that you can find out about yourself, Ohrtonz?

 

[Ermine]

I agree with Wisp's post and am of the opinion that we all have "issues", mild or severe. Less mature INTPs or INTPs with more issues can come off as schizoid, autistic, or as having aspergers to name a few, but that's a generalization. It's like saying that all shoes are sandals, or all shoes are size 8 by virtue of being shoes.

Every other type has their "issues" too. We are not being ripped off because everyone has different strengths and weaknesses.

 

[halfbread]

Just being an introvert means you got ripped off in life. Don't weaken just because we have more enemies than just all the ES's roaming around.
I strangely have all of the things that the author named, although the As and ADHD seem to be getting weaker.

 

[Fedayeen]

Disoder=different not worse.

I actually think being high functioning autistic is better then just being normal. I envy that they can just focus in one 1 thing and it can keep their attention for so long (I have a very short attention span)

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

I see it as a strong imbalance in population types, it manifests in personalities and the environment

 

[Morel Panic]

Disoder=different not worse.

It depends on what you mean by 'worse'. Most psychologists classify 'worse' personalities as ones that 'cause social difficulty'. Undeniably, being INTP (or any sort of introvert (or schizoid)) causes a certain amount of social dificulty, but it also some advantages in other areas.

So I guess my question now is, if you include all factors (social meshability, mental ability, happiness, etc.), do you think that certain personality types just get the short end of the stick, or do they all magically even out to be the same thing?

That's right, I moved from psychology to philosophy. What NOW???!!!

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

I think there's certain personality types that get jealous of other types and stack the odds in their favor. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any that appreciate balance, another philosophy discussion in itself

 

[halfbread]

The odds in the world are stacked for the ESP's. INT's really got fucked over because NF's tend to be better with ES's.

 

[SEELE01]

The answers are 2 and 5


someone only has a personality disorder once it interfeirs with there ability to live a normal life. Example: Someone can have a huge ego without having Narccassistic personality disorder, someone can be a troublemaker without having Antisocial Disorder. A Schizoid person is someone who feels no need for human interaction at all, I think your average INTP has atleast a few freinds(or atleast wants them).

Aspergers is a form of autism which is neurological disorder, it has little to do with a persons psychology(or rather the cause does, not the effects)

 

[Morel Panic]

someone only has a personality disorder once it interfeirs with there ability to live a normal life. Example: Someone can have a huge ego without having Narccassistic personality disorder, someone can be a troublemaker without having Antisocial Disorder. A Schizoid person is someone who feels no need for human interaction at all, I think your average INTP has atleast a few freinds(or atleast wants them).

I would have to disagree with this...

Narcissistic personality disorder is diagnosed in individuals based on their ego size.
Schizoid personality disorder is diagnosed in individuals based off their "tendency towards a solitary lifestyle, secretiveness, and emotional coldness"(The Omniscient Wikipedia)

My point here is that diagnosis of these disorders is based off tendencies, not off true or false conditions. You can't be "a little bit schizophrenic", but you can be "a little bit schizoid".

I guess I'm not so much objecting to the measurement of these tendencies, but the label "personality disorder". I would be very interested if someone proved me wrong, but there doesn't seem to be anything that separates schizoid tendencies from schizoid personality disorder.

[sorry I'm not getting into antisocial disorder here. I haven't researched it enough ...5 is definitely true]

 

[SEELE01]

I would have to disagree with this...

Narcissistic personality disorder is diagnosed in individuals based on their ego size.(YES and if you have a big enough ego its going to interfere with your ability to function)
Schizoid personality disorder is diagnosed in individuals based off their "tendency towards a solitary lifestyle, secretiveness, and emotional coldness"(The Omniscient Wikipedia)

My point here is that diagnosis of these disorders is based off tendencies, not off true or false conditions. You can't be "a little bit schizophrenic", but you can be "a little bit schizoid".

I guess I'm not so much objecting to the measurement of these tendencies, but the label "personality disorder". I would be very interested if someone proved me wrong, but there doesn't seem to be anything that separates schizoid tendencies from schizoid personality disorder.

[sorry I'm not getting into antisocial disorder here. I haven't researched it enough ...5 is definitely true]

The DSM-IV-TR, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines schizoid personality disorder as:
A. A pervasive pattern of detachment from social relationships and a restricted range of expression of emotions in interpersonal settings, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following:

1. neither desires nor enjoys close relationships, including being part of a family
2. almost always chooses solitary activities
3. has little, if any, interest in having sexual experiences with another person
4. takes pleasure in few, if any, activities
5. lacks close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
6. appears indifferent to the praise or criticism of others
7. shows emotional coldness, detachment, or flattened affect

I think almost everyone on the forum here would disagree with these ESPECIALY number 3. Once again I restate it is not a personality disorder until it interferes with your ability to function in society.

Diagnosis of personality disorders is very subjective; however, inflexible and pervasive behavioral patterns often cause serious personal and social difficulties, as well as a general functional impairment. Rigid and ongoing patterns of feeling, thinking and behavior are said to be caused by underlying belief systems and these systems are referred to as fixed fantasies or "dysfunctional schemata" (Cognitive modules).

 

[Morel Panic]

DISCLAIMER!!! DISCLAIMER!!!!
At this point, I give up any pretense of having a clue what I'm talking about.
...

as indicated by four (or more) of the following:

I can't see how you can get more subjective than this. It's actually kind of odd since you highlight only 3/7 of the following reasons as being truely abnormal (not enough to rule out a diagnosis of schizoid personality disorder).

1. neither desires nor enjoys close relationships, including being part of a family
2. almost always chooses solitary activities
3. has little, if any, interest in having sexual experiences with another person
4. takes pleasure in few, if any, activities
5. lacks close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
6. appears indifferent to the praise or criticism of others
7. shows emotional coldness, detachment, or flattened affect

These still have weasel words in them as well... You can still enjoy "a few" things. and have "a little" interest in sex.

What I'm looking for is convincing that Scizoid personality disorder is defined as being something beyond a certain degree of schizoid beheavior.

 

[SEELE01]

DISCLAIMER!!! DISCLAIMER!!!!
At this point, I give up any pretense of having a clue what I'm talking about.
...


I can't see how you can get more subjective than this. It's actually kind of odd since you highlight only 3/7 of the following reasons as being truely abnormal (not enough to rule out a diagnosis of schizoid personality disorder).


These still have weasel words in them as well... You can still enjoy "a few" things. and have "a little" interest in sex.

What I'm looking for is convincing that Scizoid personality disorder is defined as being something beyond a certain degree of schizoid beheavior.

No its pretty subjective. I must of gotten confused, I was trying to disprove your INTP = SCHIZOID/ASPERGERS claim.

 

[Morel Panic]

No its pretty subjective. I must of gotten confused, I was trying to disprove your INTP = SCHIZOID/ASPERGERS claim.

That's not exactly what I meant. Actually, I was trying as hard as I could not to mean anything and was sort of getting off on a tangent from the original post...

I guess I see most of these "personality disorders" as a set of strong personality tendencies that often overlap some with the INTP (or other) personality.

Psychology is my big elective this semester, so I'm actually kind of pumped to learn about this stuff now.

 

[Berkeley]

It depends on what you mean by 'worse'. Most psychologists classify 'worse' personalities as ones that 'cause social difficulty'. Undeniably, being INTP (or any sort of introvert (or schizoid)) causes a certain amount of social dificulty, but it also some advantages in other areas.

So I guess my question now is, if you include all factors (social meshability, mental ability, happiness, etc.), do you think that certain personality types just get the short end of the stick, or do they all magically even out to be the same thing?

That's right, I moved from psychology to philosophy. What NOW???!!!

Well I feel like I have always been superior to just about everyone. I'm not trying to sound arrogant and I would never say I was superior to anyone else in person, but once I found out I was an INTP I thought, "Oh, that explains it" I'm not entirely anti-social (but my friends love parties, which I have had enough of for one lifetime), INTP's tend to have a high mental capacity and knowing that I am better then other people makes me happy. Even if someone is apparently better then me in a class or something, I know I have more reasoning skills and can be the best if i wanted to. However, I usually don't want to so other people don't see me as the best.

I think it all comes back to happiness. If you can find contentment, you must be better off then the person next to you. Despite what society says, as long as I am happy I don't really care what I'm labeled.

Having said all this, I think INTP's are the best

(That is very possibly only because I am an INTP though...)