The Failed INTP?

[Black Rose]

Someone once said to me that the INFP was a failed INTP.

In Freudian terms, the INTP has an intelligence complex and the INFP has a guilt complex. (1)

INTPs have it where they can do most anything with their intellect but for some reason a person who can't becomes INFP? The INFP has many ideas yet lacks something, making them feel inferior to the people who can do what they cannot. The INFP becomes obsessed with what they cannot do. The feeling part Fi has to do with not being able to create Ne manifestations. So the INFP starts to look at what it is that causes this with the inferior function looking to appear as Ti when it is not. INTP can take Ne and flesh out the process yet INFP must use the inferior function that increases a sense that because it is not the dominant function a constant stream of works not coming from introspection (The Ti quiet contemplation) but more of a constant piecing together parts to find what works.

The parts being the Ne ideas and the Fi-Te decision of when the work. This editing process is not the same as Ti because it is about external observation whereas the Ti reflection holds what is internal to that type. This could be ing images or in inner speech but the INFP is not daydreaming they are data absorbing. This is a totally different process. Ti decides internal to self what goes and not goes together. It does not need to work out the events in the creation of objects to make new discoveries. The cause of what will happen is already known to INTP but the INFP must experiment with the object and then see the results produce a discovery. The feeling part Fi then is satisfied or unsatisfied. The INTP sits and makes discoveries by thinking in the head alone.

The INFP is always making small things that build and add together what the INTP can do but after they think of everything to do not in the act itself. INTP observe with Ne but then they start construction inside themselves. INFP is making it up as they go along but learning everything from it.

That makes it hard for the INFP to see that the INTP has thought of every step of the entire system. The INFP has failed to make anything large in that sense without many many failers, this leads them to question intelligence and ask what it is they must be if they are not creative but have made many things are they not intelligent, and if they are then are they INTP because why would they be INFP if they have intelligence and not feeling things about people all the time which the stereotype of the INFP requires.

The INFP makes things thinks that this intelligence is what the INTP is. The INFP reflecting on the inferior function Te is confused that as they must be thinkers. And if a thinker then a thinker who is intelligent. The INTP becomes a default option. INFPs are always "thinking" about what to make not realizing this is internal and not external to the INTP.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Someone once said to me that the INFP was a failed INTP.

Only a jokester or a T person would say that.
INFP needs emotions and be in touch with emotions. Because that is the driving force of INFP.
Anyone who knows what emotions are and how important they are to either existence and intellect will not down play them.

Ti vs Fi that is like comparing two sides of the same coin. They are seemingly different.
But if you are not aware of F then T becomes crippled, vice versa if you are not aware of T your F will be off base.
I think the key is balance.
Fi in INFP is always stronger, but that is why it needs to be well balanced with T.
Ti in INTP is always stronger, but if you balance it with F it will become super efficient.
Having no balance is like having one pedal on a bike and trying to go as fast as if you had two pedals.

 

[Black Rose]

Having no balance is like having one pedal on a bike and trying to go as fast as if you had two pedals.

They told me I should go back to being INFP because, for some reason, I drive my thoughts into off-balanced places because of Ne. T is about I think about putting things together to see if they go together. INFP do that with their inferior function.

The confusion is that Fi is a judgment function and introverted making is so that confusion happens. Most definitely an extrovert is possible to know what kind they are relatively quickly but then the introvert to find out what they are requires more insight as this is a more hidden process.

The INFP can be emotional but more so the dwell on emotional things that made them feel one way or another way. The Ne part is what make them "think" in a way similar to INTP because they want to know what should be done to resolve the tension between what is as what Ne makes them think about. They then look at the eternal as Te can do what might resolve it. So not only do they think of what Ne does they think of all Te does making it possible to think without acting making Ti seem plausible.

That person was here 5 years ago and said many people on the forum were INFP who confused emotional reflection on thought as thought itself. I remembered and began to think of it when my emotional tension rose high.

 

[birdsnestfern]

Its experience that allows you to expand. You are too hard on yourself. What you need is to try new things each day.

Can you ask someone to teach you to drive or can you ride a bike or take a bus or taxi? You seem too stuck. Ask people to show you things.

Earn money by walking dogs or helping people clean? Save it and do something fun in Summer.

 

[scorpiomover]

Someone once said to me that the INFP was a failed INTP.

Is someone with a blood type of O Negative a failed O Positive?

In Freudian terms, the INTP has an intelligence complex and the INFP has a guilt complex. (1)

When the INFP's guit complex is cured, what type is he?

When the INTP's intelligence complex is cured, what type is he?

Is "type" a category of mental illness?

If so, since MBTI is called "personality types", doesn't that mean that "personality" is mental illness?

INTPs have it where they can do most anything with their intellect but for some reason a person who can't becomes INFP?

Sounds like stereotypes, charicatures, anime characters, not actual people.

They told me I should go back to being INFP

Can people choose their personality?

That person was here 5 years ago and said many people on the forum were INFP who confused emotional reflection on thought as thought itself.

OK. That's someone who thinks INTPs were mistyped. Possible. But to say that, we'd have to have the official definitions of F & T AND we'd have to know them personally and know their behaviours well enough to disagree with them.

If I knew you well enough to say that you were a Russian and not an American, that would be equivalent. Does anyone on this forum know anyone here that well?

 

[Black Rose]

If so, since MBTI is called "personality types", doesn't that mean that "personality" is mental illness?

a complex is not an illness, it is more a way of operating from a structural standpoint

OK. That's someone who thinks INTPs were mistyped. Possible. But to say that, we'd have to have the official definitions of F & T AND we'd have to know them personally and know their behaviours well enough to disagree with them.

F helps us avoid or draw near to things, people, and places.
F is what makes it possible to know what is good or bad for us and others

T is about understanding what goes together and the relations of causality
T is what we do when we say "this or that" does/is "this or that" for "reasons".

Pathos and Logos

In the early times of the forum, people expressed many pathos-like characteristics.

I think that is the reason this person said many INFP's thought they were INTP.

It is possible that those INTP simply were expressing inferior Fe,

But it is also possible that INFPs sometimes think they are INTP for the reasons I described.

INFP's have also been known to think they are INFJ because what they say is seen as Ni - Ni being the ideas that cannot be seen except by such things as Ne would be but from the inside not outside. So not only are they confused by what they are but others confuse Ni and Ne as well.

 

[birdsnestfern]

Is it more likely you are INTP if your feelings always lead you astray? ie, too strong or repressed feelings?
This is why I tend to prefer calm thoughts over strong feelings.
With INTP's its often ALL or NOTHING.

With INFP's its more about being good at reciprocating a certain ego like stroking of each others feelings which always seemed shallow to me.
Or, I could not reciprocate that easily or it felt overwhelming if I did. I had no control of that. And feelings felt you couldn't trust them, they are tricksters that you shouldn't trust.

Feeling a room in order to prize your ego and be popular and take it in your control isn't the same as intuiting or reading energy at soul level which is much easier to understand.

I still don't understand the game of it. I don't like games. I want to express myself without the games.
I don't like getting mixed up in feeling games, just straight forwardness.

How do you balance between wanting people to mean what they say and say what they mean and using some level of kindness.
You state it as your truth.

Which is more important, to be free to express yourself, or to know how to be woke enough to not hurt someones feelings.

idk - I think we have to not compare ourselves to anyone else to overcome that dilemna. I think its better to express things openly without unnecessary rudeness. This gives people the opportunity to understand things.

 

[Black Rose]

@birdsnestfern

We all have this need to feel things, and we have all four functions T-F-N-S

With the difference between Fe and Fi, it starts with the position in the function stack.

The Dom and Aux will suppress feeling if it is lower in Tert and Inferior positions.

This will make it either immune to feeling or it will amplify its effect between Fi and Fe

So an xxTJ will be annoyed by demonstrations of feeling where an xxTP will not be affected mostly. What matters is the integrity of thinking processes inside themselves.

-

The flip side is that Fe Dom and Aux will be able to look at people and know things about them because Fe is neutral to the inside of themselves. Fi is not neutral in that way because it creates a bubble around the self that tries to keep inside what it does not want to be in there. It only lets in what if knows will be ok because it happens to resist any intrusion. That is why Jung said the Introvert resists the outside. The extrovert takes it all in. Fe takes in everything about others well Fi cannot, only if Fi is ready. Fe will have a moral code as will Fi but Fe is stringent on what people do because it can see what everyone is doing. Fi wants to create bonds so is sheltered by what bonds it lets in.

This may be relevant to what makes a person Fi Se and Fe Ni -vs- Fi Ne and Fe Si :

The Se Ni with Fi can be emotional or laid back. Se and Fi will bond to what it sees as special to it and express emotion as energy. They can have so much energy they will burst if it does not get out. Fi Ni will be like unto hating certain concepts and not others or liking them but from inside themselves whereas Ne is neutral to ideas.

-

Fi Ne is neutral to ideas but will take them in and sort them out later.

Fi and Si work together to create insecurity in a person so a Fe Si person will feel the need to help constantly because Si is primitive needs-based. Fi is primitive in what it needs (Fi) in the person with both Si and Fi. This creates sympathy for others when a person is seen as weak because it is in themselves too.

Fe and Ni is going to internalize the most about people, They will become the other person so much they think they are all people they meet.

-

This then is what happens in a T Dom Aux person in regard to feeling:

xNTJ will not care about what people feel so often but they will care what they think, they will be threatened by dumb ideas because ideas are supposed to be real inside them. So if it is a bad idea inside themselves they will see that as bad in others.

xSTJ is insecure about what they believe so must have a base to hold onto, this will make them take actions in the world to confirm their beliefs. It is hard to pull them away from a core belief since it is vital to the security of their being.

xNTP will be insecure in what they think so they need to be absolutely sure what they think is correct. They can observe others but it is secondary to making sure they have a correct line of thinking.

xSTP will be non-ambivalent to what others think because they are assured in what they themselves think is correct, being they look at the way the world is and have instant feedback on what they do. They think something and then look at the world to confirm or deny it.

 

[Old Things]

Someone once said to me that the INFP was a failed INTP.

Is someone with a blood type of O Negative a failed O Positive?

In Freudian terms, the INTP has an intelligence complex and the INFP has a guilt complex. (1)

When the INFP's guit complex is cured, what type is he?

When the INTP's intelligence complex is cured, what type is he?

Is "type" a category of mental illness?

If so, since MBTI is called "personality types", doesn't that mean that "personality" is mental illness?

INTPs have it where they can do most anything with their intellect but for some reason a person who can't becomes INFP?

Sounds like stereotypes, charicatures, anime characters, not actual people.

They told me I should go back to being INFP

Can people choose their personality?

That person was here 5 years ago and said many people on the forum were INFP who confused emotional reflection on thought as thought itself.

OK. That's someone who thinks INTPs were mistyped. Possible. But to say that, we'd have to have the official definitions of F & T AND we'd have to know them personally and know their behaviours well enough to disagree with them.

If I knew you well enough to say that you were a Russian and not an American, that would be equivalent. Does anyone on this forum know anyone here that well?

This. All of it.

 

[Black Rose]

ok, so I am thinking that INTP is hard to define.

Thinking when introverted would do a lot of intellectual searching internally for answers.

Feeling when introverted would pay attention to emotions inside the self.

I think that Fi will also feel reactions to the emotions of others. Fe is stable.

I generally fail at Te stuff, but I practice it all the time.

If ENFP this would be the tertiary grip.

Ti though can hold thoughts. It can make use of thinking in a very effective manner because emotion does not factor in. it is rational in this way.

Fi is chaotic at times. This is a big interference to T stuff.

Ti seems to be more calculative, step-by-step, and non-reactive.

Ti would know what to do because it is holding almost all the variables at once.

So Ti would refine thinking over and over, it would make sure everything is correct in its head to be sure all parts work.

To me that seems like an extraordinary amount of concentration of thought.

An INFP would try to do this too but with emotion, are all my emotions correct?

And the INFP would most likely try and use Te to make things correct in the outer world.

ENFP though might have trouble because ENFP will want to "do all the things".

ENFP would want to make stuff but have too many ideas and so get things wrong a lot when making stuff and the weakness of Te causes not enough realistic expectation.

INFP and ENFP would fail more than other types I suppose because they would feel bad the most at not getting things right and having emotions overwhelm them.

ISFP and ESFP would be too busy and INFP/ENFP have ideas they can't do.

INTP can do things but they focus on correcting thinking processes until nothing is left out. So INTP would care less about failure and are more likely to expand their thinking more and more. The INFP/ENFP would want to make ideas real but have disapointments. INTP is just happy to have corrected thinking to perfection.

 

[birdsnestfern]

This guy is trying to invent something though. who knows- he could be INTP and become a millionaire if that thing flies, lol.

Oh it’s a propane powered body heater.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

INTP can do things but they focus on correcting thinking processes until nothing is left out. So INTP would care less about failure and are more likely to expand their thinking more and more.

bingo

 

[Black Rose]

The difference between Ti and Te is, implementation (Te) vs. contemplation (Ti)

Te tries to effect things to an extent

Ti goes deeper into thinking just to think more

Thinkers often get confused if they are introverted vs extraverted

I know I want to make my ideas. I just don't know how.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

I know I want to make my ideas. I just don't know how.

ideas can be an end unto themselves

that's how we get great fiction