The E-Diary of Inex

[Rebis]

They gave up and now they are justifying it.

The girls are lyin, she likes cheetos but won't accept the soggy cheetos in my gatorade, dumb bitch

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I know a guy who refers to woman as bumps in the road.
LMAO
u proud of me rebis, i hav don good?

My answer:

"if you don't like what I think, I can go fuck myself" haha

You got it dude

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[EndogenousRebel]

Basically I think incel and mgtow are not people who are actually interested in figuring anything out, they are instead preoccupied with justifying a worldview in which they are powerless.

Ha, you're not wrong. This is a pretty funny and explanatory video of someone who has analyzed the incel phenomena. If you can take the antics of it.

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

@EndogenousRebel yeah that was pretty good lol. Those post examples made me laugh out loud.

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

Is it too much to ask what you guys work in? Maybe it’s something I’ve had interest in, in which case, maybe I can share some ideas with you that could be exciting to her.

Let me just say it’s exceedingly unlikely you’ve had an interest in this type of business lol. But if you were to base it on your own experience what would you say?

 

[EndogenousRebel]

@EndogenousRebel yeah that was pretty good lol. Those post examples made me laugh out loud.

Yeah it is indeed. I had to rewatch it after linking it to you and the one with the fixation on his wrist keeps popping into my head, and my reactions are between subtly smiling at work to bursting out laughing in the shower.

 

[Inexorable Username]

dont believe evil is common. I think people do evil things with good intentions most of the time.

Definitely agreed. Uncommon, purely selfish evil rarely seems to have a widespread impact. For instance, a lot of serial killers have what you could cal purely selfish evil - but they generally go out an murder a family or two, end up in prison, and people use them for psychological research. They’re not your Hitlers of the world. They’re not that productive...Or, I think, that intelligent. Psychopaths generally aren’t productive. Empathy is highly motivational.

I think he had good intentions. He went about it wrong though.

I’m not sure that Hitler actually had “good intentions” in the traditional sense. I think he was heavily empathetic, but he has a messed up youth. He developed a sense of what he believed the ideal world should be, and seeing his dream contrasts starkly with the way the real world was sort of sickened him mentally. It gave him this “burn it to the ground” sort of idea that, I think largely, was built off of repressed bitterness and resentment, and a strong desire to dominate, control, and be feared and respected, but which he justified to himself as a courageous campaign for the greater good, to bring about this dream world he had in his fantasies. The empathic capability were there to inform him, but I think he mostly “shut it off” as I tend to call it. Something he seemed particularly adept at because, I think, he needed to learn that skill at an early age.

I look forward to having someone to sleep with and smoosh. My lady friend loves the fact that I unconsciously caress her, its weird but super soothing. Do you do that too XD?

I do. I’ve noticed a lot of empaths have sensitive skin. We deeply enjoy the sensation of touch. Soft things, warm things. Try smooshing you’re cheek to someone’s bare back. It’s heaven. In my mind. Few things are more enjoyable. Lips are very sensitive too - try seeing how light of a touch you can use to where your lips still detect something. They are super sensitive. Understanding lip sensitivity makes people better kissers. Otherwise they just tend to smash their face on your face like they’ve got a job to do. Exploring touch sensation with an intimate partner is a very sexy and emotionally fulfilling experience. Give it a whirl. See if her cheek/lips/neck have the same sensitivities as yours.

That’s where men learn to become irresistible in the bedroom. Trust me. Take time to explore the way in which your own, and other people’s skin tingles & sends shivers when touched, and you will be a total ladies man.

Here’s the short list: cheek, lips, tip of nose, earlobes or top of ears, base of neck or the part of the skull behind the ears, the crook of the elbow, the palm-up veiny part of the wrist, upper abdomen...etc....and the area behind the knee.

I do not agree. repress? yes. like a soldier.
You have to remember the lucifer affect as well. we dehumanize people who arent OURS and do terrible things to them.
The lucifer affect book, the only book I actually could not get through, it was too depressing.

I try to avoid reading media like that unless there’s something specific I plan to learn from it. Media like that will poison your worldview before you realize it’s mindfucking you.

You could say repress, in that you could potentially feel the consequences of your action later...but I don’t thing empaths who shut off their empathy always do feel those consequences, actually, and I think that - unlike other people who may struggle to repress emotions - the repression is not so much of a struggle for the mature empath.

Kind of a complicated subject I could talk a lot about, but I believe it’s what can often make empaths powerful and dangerous. In a way, by attaining a deep level of insight into your own emotions, you empower yourself to view them, in a way, as their own entity or controlling force...hmm...how can I explain it...I’m not the only empath who has observed the phenomenon.

You’ll hear a lot of empaths say that they could never possibly control their empathy - but really, that seems to be the sign of the immature empath who hasn’t really had as much time to be introspective and to really understand their empathy and where it comes from.

Oh. That might be the heart of the matter - we’re better able to understand where the empathy comes from, with time, and experience. In that way, we’re better able to guard ourselves against the thoughts and stimuli that cause it.

I don’t think I’ve ever met an empath who doesn’t, to some degree, slightly loathe being controlled by empathy. It’s something of a lifelong battle to figure out how to coexist with it, and many people seem to figure out how to actually control it.

THAT is when you should be worried about the “dark side” you mentioned that you think could come out in yourself. It seems to me that highly empathetic people are often also highly sensitive. If you control your empathy but neglect to control your sensitivity, then someone else’s actions could push you to towards a darker mind.
One of justice-seeking (especially if you think you’re defending the weak or oppressed), the greater good, vengeance...things such as this.

I think you could compare empathy to sexual urges. In the same way younger people can’t possibly imagine controlling their sexual urges, but eventually teach themselves to shut of their sex drive when it suits them, empathetic people can learn to shut off their empathy when it suits them. Or...I don’t know - maybe men never shut off their sex drives XD
But then again, most men have lower EQs? So maybe that’s relevant? I’m not the only woman I know that shuts off their sex drive...hmm...thoughts.

I could see it, only to protect though.

That’s just because you haven’t really dug deep enough into the issue yet. As I said - many people who are highly empathetic also seem to be highly sensitive, so empathy can lead to a sort of emotional thirst for vengeance in a weird way. Especially since many empathetic people have a love-hate relationship with empathy and feel controlled by it.

Empathy can also lead people into going over the top about “protecting” something that didn’t need protection at all - and they can hurt others in this misguided effort.

Protecting, really, for empathetic people, I think comes down to fear. Fear makes people act irrationally. Which is why it’s important for empathetic people to value logic as the end point in decision making.

I dont, but it made me feel a bit defective for most of my life.

Join the club.

The only problem I have with my empathy is I cannot put myself first, because their pain hurts me toooooooooo. I feel responsible for soothing people, but I guess im immature and Im working on it.

Be careful. People will suck the life out of you. I think a lot of empaths are introverts because socializing can be frankly exhausting when you’re like a radio tuned to the frequencies of everyone else’s feelings. It gives me headaches. I used to get a lot of headaches in school and I didn’t realize until much later in life that it was the complexity of the emotional ambience of crowds of people that makes me feel highly stressed. I’m not afraid of crowds, they just quickly wear me down. Also - I can be really bratty when I’ve been exhausted by a crowd.

People tend to hone in on you too when you’re empathetic. Not sure how, but other people seem to have an empathy radar. This is something I can’t personally relate to. Anyways...I often get sought out by people who want to tell me their life story, and often times, exceedingly depressing, really heart wrenching stuff that makes me well up with tears of sympathy that ruins my makeup. It’s flattering that they feel they can share their life with me, and normally, I appreciate the benefit to my world perspective - but sometimes, just, fml.

Like the party I went to this past summer where a woman cornered me in the kitchen to tell me all about how she had recently held her dying mother in her arms, and the look in her eyes when she took her last breath. It was graphic. I still feel traumatized when it occasionally creeps into my head when I’m looking at my own mom.
Then just a few days ago mom and I stopped at a benefit for a dog shelter we found alongside the road, and this lady told me about how her niece used to save up her allowance all year as a kid to come give to the shelter, and it ended up turning into this benefit, and then her niece died at 16 from cancer, and now her parents can’t bare to come to the event, and she was showing me pictures of the kid @_@...we were on our way to go Christmas shopping.
Also, I had a bagel in my hand, and it’s really awkward to be standing there holding back tears with a half eaten bagel you feel courtesy-obliged to finish.

This is one great reason why I don’t like parties...lol...

And I swear - I don’t even like, know these people. All I said to this woman was “I noticed you have a Facebook page”

I must have “Depress me for free hugs” written all over my face.

The main issue is that they can be the thing that echoes their thoughts, if they have no one. The problem is that, we need people to remind us that people arent terrible, and if you have nobody, assumptions run wild.

I had the same struggle with my own battle of sexism. I had nobody to explain to me why I was wrong. I knew I must be wrong, but I couldn’t figure out why. It was tough. It was a period of my life full of a lot of self loathing and depression. Glad I got out of it fairly quickly.

Could you elaborate on an example pertaining to the last paragraph? For example, I recalled asking a girl to come over and she cancelled, pretty obvious she picked up on my intent even though it wasn't confined to just sex, I would happily watched some netflix but it doesn't go down like that anymore, busy people are picky. Though she picked up on my intent and persistence I don't see as a bad thing, I mean it's happened in the opposite order where girls ask to come over after a few drinks, but while the intent is known it isn't conspiratory.

Well, there’s not a lot of differences between guys and girls, but the pursuer and perused, whether by nature or culture, is definitely a big difference. While I generally dislike double-standards, if we’re being honest about dating dynamic...this really is a double standard.

Men generally know whether they want to have sex with a woman, but women need time to decide. Consider - the pursuer has already had time to decide. The pursued hasn’t. Unfortunately, the pursued really does have, in general, much more to lose from the relationship.

That’s why, a lot of times, if you just go up to a woman and ask her out, she’s likely to say no. She doesn’t know you, and you just “sprung” this on her. Without any time to consider the situation, the default answer is generally no. Most women don’t go out with guys simply based off of what they look like.

As far as coming over to someone’s house is concerned...unless a person knows you well enough to know otherwise, the assumption is going to be that you want to have sex. If she hasn’t decided she wants to have sex with you yet, then the default answer is likely no. Again, she has a lot to lose. Plus, if she comes over and she doesn’t want to have sex, but you expect that the two of you will - there could be a lot of problems. You might accuse her of leading you on, or try to manipulate her, or make her feel self-conscious about herself, or worse - you could be some kind of rapist.

When decent men hear this argument, it often upsets them. And it makes sense. Decent guys don’t do these things, and they don’t want such assumptions made of them. I get heavily offended when people call me a liar, because I’m incredibly honest. But if we’re all being realistic about life, then we’ve got to accept that there’s many men that aren’t decent - enough of them that it’s wise to be wary - and most people lie on a daily basis.

Before someone knows you, you’re just a generalization. Well, to a woman. See..I think men have a habit of idealizing women whereas women have a habit of generalizing men. I think this stems, again, from the nature of the dating roles. If you idealize someone, you want to pursue them. If you generalize someone, you’re on guard for “warning signs”.

When I talk to women about men they’re interested in, whether or not they realize it, they’re generally constructing a list of risk vs reward. All of the things that seem hopeful, and all of the things that gave them pause to second guess whether the man is sexist, manipulative, dishonest, hates kids or pets, does drugs...etc.

My end advice to men is always the same. Let women come to you. The simple act of you demonstrating interest in her, but then NOT pursuing her, shows that you don’t have an agenda. People who don’t have an agenda are more trustworthy than those that do. That gives her time to get to know you, and decide whether or not you’re someone she would sleep with.

Generally women will start to flirt with men before they’ve consciously realized they’ve made up their mind - so I think it’s also good to accept the first hints of flirtatious behavior as a compliment to your sexual attractiveness. She’s likely flirting because she’s attracted to you, and it’s kind of a knee-jerk response. But mentally, she needs to process risk vs reward before deciding whether or not she wants to follow through with that. At which point, she probably will give more obvious hints.

In the meantime, keep your doors open. Drop a line to different women you think you might like to be with, but don’t zero on on them and try to make something of it. Hang out around girls and get to know them as friends, and the simple fact that you’re friendly toward women, which means you obviously value them as people and as friends, and that you’re not exclusively talking to her, will give her a sense of “If I think I like him I should probably do something about it or he might start dating someone else.”

As far as the impatience thing goes - well, what are you looking for? If you’re looking for cheap sex, there’s apps for that.

If you want a successful, fulfilling, intimate relationship with an intelligent, introverted woman who really “gets you” and helps you discover a deeper side of yourself - well, imo you get what you pay for. Not literally, figuratively. Be willing to pay in time, because the kind of woman you’re looking to connect with is (A) Unlikely to commit to a superficial relationship, and (B) If she did succumb to a superficial relationship, unlikely to stay, because she wouldn't view you in the right light.

Anyways that’s my best advice, and I feel it relates to that phone call you had. It would have been better to ask her out somewhere so that she then had the option of whether to go back to your house with you.

Put it this way - if you don’t know that she’ll say yes, don’t call. That would be my advice. When she’s given you enough signals that you can predict the answer, it means she’s probably made up her mind. Anyways...the situation where you’re hoping for sex and she’s not sure if she wants to give it is just painfully awkward for both parties, and not at all a nice date.

If you’re really impatient, you probably need to find an outlet to help you manage impatience first and foremost, as impatience is never a healthy foundation for a real relationship. It shows that you don’t value others enough to really respect them in the way that you should, if you’re to have a partnership with an equal.

I don’t date anymore, but I’ve had a couple of instances where I’ve dated a guy and I’ve gotten wind that he’s impatient. And I didn’t follow up on it. It’s sort of insulting...lol.

Hopefully you don’t take that as a criticism! Maybe you’re thinking that more people are impatient then is accurate? Or maybe it’s your nation, not sure. There’s a lot of frivolous sex which can skew the figures, but me being an introvert and not outwardly very sociable, when a guy asks me out they’re usually pretty good at pretending to be interested in who I am. It’s seldom the case, but there you go. Maybe you’re just honest!

Women can be very interesting. Certain women have a lot of insights to offer. I rarely get valuable information about the world and humans from men - their conversations are better for discussing science and literature. Many women can tell you about human nature, I think, to a much greater degree....maybe that’s just my experience.

Anyways - a final thought. If you really ARE impatient about it all, it behooves you to drop hints to a number of women. Show them you’re attracted to them in a subtle way. A compliment about their talent or intellect is a good start. Hang around them when it’s convenient, maybe invite them to go somewhere in a small group of people, and just kind of get a feel for who they are by having a couple of conversations on the side that aren’t too intimate. You can do this with several women, and it’s not only moral, but it also makes you a sweet guy who is willing to actually be friends with a lady without expecting them to give you sex.

So let’s say you have four or five women you’ve met and been friendly to. You haven’t had to take any of them out on an expensive date. You haven’t been rejected. You know them more now because you’ve talked to them here and there and learned a bit about them. You’ve probably enjoyed your time a lot more because you’ve done things that are personally interesting to you and maybe a friend or two and invited them along, perhaps, and you now have four dating candidates rather than one - without being a jerk about it. (It’s kind of a dick move to get a woman’s hopes up that you want to get serious with her while doing the same thing with someone else).

Now, you slowly add to your repertoire of female friends until someone gives you obvious signals. Then you can move foreword without worrying about being rejected, and make sure that if another lady friend gives you obvious signals, you’re honest about the fact that you’ve been seeing more of this other person...

If you’re honest, and it doesn’t work out with the other girl, there will probably be girls willing to take your place. If you’re manipulative, you’ll be branded as a “player”.

Personally, I like coffee shops. Apparently this is an introvert thing. An INFJ YouTuber I like mentioned it as well. I feel like you could hang out at a coffee shop and befriend the woman behind the counter, or one of the regular patrons. You could easily have convos with them when they show up. Meanwhile, you can get your homework done.

Just a suggestion! People are the most attractive when they don’t have to try too hard to enjoy themselves.

I hope you find the right girl for you, Rebis. You’re a complex guy. Speaking from experience, not just my own but other introverted women as well, complexity in a guy can be very intriguing. I can see how it would work in your favor

Maybe try to keep situations open, light-hearted, and easy though. That way, nobody feels pressured to make an on the spot out decision they might regret later.

 

[Inexorable Username]

Is it too much to ask what you guys work in? Maybe it’s something I’ve had interest in, in which case, maybe I can share some ideas with you that could be exciting to her.

Let me just say it’s exceedingly unlikely you’ve had an interest in this type of business lol. But if you were to base it on your own experience what would you say?

Uhm...that’s too vague of a question. I’m sure you’re right that I probably wouldn’t be interested in that business based on the way you worded the comment - but for me to narrower it down based on my experiences would be tough, because I have more interests than anyone I have ever met...XD

I generally don’t openly admit this because I feel like it goes without saying, but I’m a....bit of an odd one. (Understatement of the year)

Let’s see...I mean - dog training is one of my interests. If a guy was to invite me to a dog show I would be really excited about that. I’ve talked at length with men who felt confused as to why I was talking to them (literally one person said this), because they were really knowledgeable about computer security and I got excited. At the time I was in college for computer science.

Let’s see...mmm...thinking.
Still thinking
This is tough. OH!

I think if a guy ever invited me over so we could dissect electronics - that would be really awesome. Or build something.
Anything where I could be learning something new related to what I’m interested in. Especially if he has something to show me or teach me. Especially if it’s something I wouldn’t normally have access to.

For some reason, geeking out in a home environment where things are comfortable and I can wear casual clothes...and we could drink coffee and discuss the subject. It’s sexy to me.

Then, after you tire yourself out intellectually, you order delivery or you work together to cook up a nice dinner with a bottle of wine, and indulge in intellectual conversations <3

Of course, most men don’t want to spend time on all of that, and many men feel that women aren’t friendship material. So I can only think of once instance off the top of my head where anything remotely similar to that happened during my dating career - but if it had happened, I think I would be pretty into that guy. So romantic. It makes me want to go make a cup of coffee, select the perfect sugar cookie, draw a bubble bath, and watch LindyBeige’s video on “How to get troops to attack”. It’s been on my to do list.

Unfortunately...I have work to do! So I have to go guys - but I’ll be back on later!

Edit: Maybe. I’m not used to having this social outlet. It often doesn’t pop up in my schedule as often as I hope to get back to it.

 

[Inexorable Username]

"if you don't like what I think, I can go fuck myself" haha

Wow. I had to read this three times before I got the joke. Good for you! Fucking yourself is I think usually the way to go. It’s efficient, appropriately paced, cheap, and honestly - who knows your body better than you?

Okay! Now I really have to go!

 

[peoplesuck]

I’m not sure that Hitler actually had “good intentions” in the traditional sense.

I think he did what he thought was right. Most people do. I personally never betray my moral compass.

I do. I’ve noticed a lot of empaths have sensitive skin. We deeply enjoy the sensation of touch. Soft things, warm things. Try smooshing you’re cheek to someone’s bare back. It’s heaven. In my mind. Few things are more enjoyable. Lips are very sensitive too - try seeing how light of a touch you can use to where your lips still detect something. They are super sensitive. Understanding lip sensitivity makes people better kissers. Otherwise they just tend to smash their face on your face like they’ve got a job to do. Exploring touch sensation with an intimate partner is a very sexy and emotionally fulfilling experience. Give it a whirl. See if her cheek/lips/neck have the same sensitivities as yours.

That’s where men learn to become irresistible in the bedroom. Trust me. Take time to explore the way in which your own, and other people’s skin tingles & sends shivers when touched, and you will be a total ladies man.

Here’s the short list: cheek, lips, tip of nose, earlobes or top of ears, base of neck or the part of the skull behind the ears, the crook of the elbow, the palm-up veiny part of the wrist, upper abdomen...etc....and the area behind the knee

YASSS this was the talk I needed ^_^ I actually touched her behind her knee and she was like oooh thas my spot. XD I thought she was joking until I read this...
I have so much to try now! My favorite thing so far is to have on hand on her lower back and one behind her neck, and just smoosh her, and nuzzle her. show loves it.

You could say repress, in that you could potentially feel the consequences of your action later...but I don’t thing empaths who shut off their empathy always do feel those consequences, actually, and I think that - unlike other people who may struggle to repress emotions - the repression is not so much of a struggle for the mature empath.

I was speaking in hypothetical bs. I know for 100% fact I can turn my empathy off, but Ive never done anything with it, because I dont like the idea of hurting people. I assumed its more of repression, but Im not sure.
You right.

Join the club.

FUck I thought this was the club, im in the wrong room again.

Be careful. People will suck the life out of you. I think a lot of empaths are introverts because socializing can be frankly exhausting when you’re like a radio tuned to the frequencies of everyone else’s feelings. It gives me headaches. I used to get a lot of headaches in school and I didn’t realize until much later in life that it was the complexity of the emotional ambience of crowds of people that makes me feel highly stressed. I’m not afraid of crowds, they just quickly wear me down. Also - I can be really bratty when I’ve been exhausted by a crowd.

YES, I get headaches from being in rooms with lots of people, its too much for me. I never figured it was the emotional queues, but probably.
what a word, queues, who thought the second ue was necessary, fuck that guy.

People tend to hone in on you too when you’re empathetic. Not sure how, but other people seem to have an empathy radar. This is something I can’t personally relate to. Anyways...I often get sought out by people who want to tell me their life story, and often times, exceedingly depressing, really heart wrenching stuff that makes me well up with tears of sympathy that ruins my makeup. It’s flattering that they feel they can share their life with me, and normally, I appreciate the benefit to my world perspective - but sometimes, just, fml.

I like the idea of being the one people feel safe with, but I can see how quickly it could become exhausting.

Also, I had a bagel in my hand, and it’s really awkward to be standing there holding back tears with a half eaten bagel you feel courtesy-obliged to finish.

Im a straight savage and would have eaten the bagel and kept a serious demeanor.
Use your bagel to dry your tears, when life hurts, bagels.

And I swear - I don’t even like, know these people. All I said to this woman was “I noticed you have a Facebook page”

You have a fucking sweet mom face and thats all there is to IT.

Wow. I had to read this three times before I got the joke. Good for you! Fucking yourself is I think usually the way to go. It’s efficient, appropriately paced, cheap, and honestly - who knows your body better than you?

Okay! Now I really have to go!

One day inex, a man is going to WOW your socks off. But not until you can be comfortable and vulnerable.
Take it from me, im practically a sex god, held hands and kissed, the whole thing ;P

 

[Inexorable Username]

Im a straight savage and would have eaten the bagel and kept a serious demeanor.
Use your bagel to dry your tears, when life hurts, bagels.

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this - but I straight up laughed at this response! You're so funny Peoples. I did eat my bagel portion, but I felt distinctly awkward doing so. I guess I do have a very feminine face, so maybe that's why people feel like I'm a great outlet for their emotional life story. Haha. Or it might be the way I talk? I'm a very open/honest sort of person when I actually do get talking. Traditionally, I've never really talked much...but I've been working on being a more sociable person - so maybe it's the fact that I'm open/honest, but not unkind. I don't know. Whatever it is, I seem to have a knack for being mistaken for a therapist. Lol.

One day inex, a man is going to WOW your socks off. But not until you can be comfortable and vulnerable.

Mmm....I doubt it. Honestly, I don't like saying this, because it seems really cold...but I can't see what I stand to gain from having "a man". I'm a very self-sufficient kind of person. I don't usually confide my feelings in other people, for instance, because I just don't feel the need to, and I often feel like I have a better shot understanding myself in silence than I do by seeking out other people's opinions, because I've learned over time that I'm a quirky individual and the generic advice just doesn't really work for me.

The other thing is, even as a kid, I never really idolized, glorified, or put people on a pedestal. I've never had a crush on a movie star, or had any kind of reverence for someone like a president or a billionaire or anything. I see people as being "just people", and in that frame of thought, I see people as essentially all equal.

I'm not really motivated to find anyone because, to be honest, I can't really see what I would get out of a relationship. I don't really care for a guy's money - in fact, I have a bit of mistrust for people who are too money motivated or possess too much wealth, because I have a philosophy that these things can corrupt a person's character. From a sexual standpoint, I'm a very self-sufficient person - I just do a better job by myself, and many men have a lot of sexual needs that can cause them to feel unhappy if those needs aren't met, but that's really a bit of a burden. Along those same lines - I really don't like feeling like my time doesn't belong to me. Like I have to sacrifice my freedom for someone else. I also don't like feeling like my emotions can be influenced by factors outside of my control on a daily basis. I don't like when my headspace is too heavily dedicated to someone else, either, especially if the person in question won't answer my questions or give me the information I need to be educated regarding their feelings/behaviors, etc. That causes me to agonizingly overthink things and feel stuck in a general state of confusion, which bothers me.

Having a man in my life, to me, means that I have to sacrifice a lot. I have to sacrifice a lot of thinking power, I have to allow someone to influence my emotions (so I can't be guaranteed that I'm not going to cry that day, for instance, because someone else has the power to make me miserable, self-conscious, upset, etc.), I have to sacrifice my physical freedom...I like the feeling like I can just take off in the car with my dog, it was a coping mechanism I used when I was younger...and I have to sacrifice a hell of a lot of time - which by proxy, means I pretty much have to sacrifice my professional ambitions and my research. I spend most of the day learning/researching, working, or practicing skills. If I had a man in my life, also, I wouldn't be able to necessarily design my living space the way I want it to be, or live where I want to live, or have the pets I want to have. The ONLY real benefit I see is that I could have kids. I did want kids when I fell in love with my last boyfriend because I envisioned us having this whole life together - but now that that's over (and it was a pretty bad relationship), the desire to have kids is definitely somewhat muted.

My issue is, if I have kids, I will need to do the mom thing - and I'm not the kind of person to go in on something halfway. But I don't think I could find a husband that would really understand and appreciate my needs as a mother. I would need a guy who enjoys having intelligent conversations with me, and who wants to learn about the world with me and discover new things - hone new talents, visit new places, etc. If there's anything I've learned about guys, it's that typically, they (A) Don't want to talk to women, and (B) Don't want to take them places. I have this nightmarish vision of familyhood in my head whereby I'm surrounded by 4-year-olds for the entire day, working to maintain the household like a slave, waiting for the entire day for an adult to step foot into the house so I can have some kind of intelligent conversation and exercise myself mentally - only to have this guy walk in the door and basically ignore the fact that I exist, because he feels like going to work and making money is all he needs to do as a husband. I would feel so lonely, so alienated, so miserable...the thought of it makes me want to scream. In my mind, I dodged the bullet with the last boyfriend, because not only was I something of a fixture in his household, and I was "just a girlfriend", yet with all of the house wifey responsibilities, but he was also really critical. In that relationship, I actually felt myself not only getting stupider in my head - I just literally didn't think anymore, but drowned my mind with music, audiobooks, and iPhone app games to get through the day - but I actually started to believe that I was stupid. All of the time I had to spend on this person and our relationship meant that I couldn't pursue my own professional ambitions, or learn new things, or hone new skills, or really dedicate any kind of time to myself.

Nah...It's better not to risk the fact that I might accidentally fall in love with someone if I dated, and get TRAPPED! XD

I get a little annoyed when I have conversations with guys whereby some guys seem to think that house wives are lucky to have a husband provide for them...It's like - if I have to be a house wife, it means that I don't have the time to provide for myself. That's a sacrifice I've had to make - relying on another person for my welfare. And it's a fairly decent sacrifice, because many men have their own feelings about what they will and won't pay for, which means that my standard of living is entirely reliant on what he feels is worth the money. So if I'm a girl that likes a nice bottle of wine, for instance - nope. That's too expensive. So really, by giving up the time I would have used to provide for myself, I'm giving up my ability to control the quality of my lifestyle. Also, I'm giving up my ability to achieve aspirational goals and dreams, and a lifestyle whereby I'm able to exercise myself mentally and have adult conversations with other intelligent people. It's a lot to sacrifice. I've just never really met a guy who understands that sacrifice, or, really, who respects the fact that I'm able to take care of myself. And honestly, the "you need me because I'll buy us a house and put food on the table" attitude - it's obnoxious to me. I don't need you. That's just the roles we chose because someone has to raise the kids, and I'm the woman, so its expected that I do it. That doesn't mean I can't take care of myself.

Hmm...I'm definitely rambling now. Lol! Also, this is a community of men - so I feel like I'm not making any friends with this attitude. People are going to think I'm some kind of "rabid feminist" and I need to be shut down. >_>

So I desist! Bottom line is that I'm just not really interested in finding a man. I see a lot of sacrifice and a lot of risk - especially given my history of not choosing very good partners - but very little payout if I'm being realistic about it. Sure, I have an idea in my head of some perfect kind of guy - but lets face it, those people don't exist. Best case scenario, you find someone you think is your "dream person", but really, you're just deluding yourself and you're going to eventually figure out they weren't who you thought they were. To find a guy that not only respects me as an equal, but also enjoys conversation with me, and understands/appreciates the sacrifices I make and the work I put into the relationship - it's an unrealistic, and probably unfair expectation to have. I'm very gullible and naive though. When people act like that, I fall for it easily. I have a habit of assuming everyone is being honest. I've gotten a lot of criticism for that.

 

[Inexorable Username]

Adventures with the Stock Market
So, lately, I've been getting into the stock market because someone suggested I might be good at it - given my hobbies and such - and I've never been particularly money-motivated, but I do find the stock market to be a lot more entertaining than I thought it was.

Anyways, on another thread, I said I would give an update on my experience with the stock market so far. Here's what I've learned so far!

Mistakes I made:

- Expecting to see short-term patterns.
Going in to this, I expected there to be more of a pattern to the way people trade because I'd read a fair few articles about trading patterns relating to the time of day, or the day of the week, or the month...and at first, I was observing some pretty consistent patterns. That gave me a false sense of security. I've since learned that the stock market is way more volatile than that, and trying to predict it on a day-to-day or hour-by-hour basis is a fools errand. (That's also been pointed out to me by several people of merit, like Serac).

- Expecting to be able to predict a company's success based on their potential.
I think I'm learning now that even if a company seems like it has a lot going for it, that's not necessarily a suggestion of steady growth on the stock market. Someone else pointed this out to me on the initial thread I started, I think, and I feel like their advice was pretty good. From what I can see, it seems that a stock's value is more dependent on how traders feel about macro economics, and the buying/selling behaviors of others, and less dependent on the perceived value of the company, itself.

- Making decisions while the stock market is open.
Or to put it another way, making decisions based on the realtime data of the stock market. Some guy that's big in the investing world suggested that it's a bad choice to make decisions while the market is open, because you can be easily influenced psychologically by realtime trading behavior. I think that was pretty good advice. I wasn't prepared at first for how quickly stock prices can change while the market is open. There really isn't enough time to make educated trading decisions based off of careful research, but the rapidity of the trading can make me feel pressured to make choices that aren't carefully thought through. I've learned to make decisions while the market is closed, so I feel more prepared.

- Not reading the morning news.
There's a lot of news outlets that post useful information regarding the market, before the market actually opened. In the beginning, I didn't realize that news posted an hour before the market opens would impact it - but it seems like it can make quite the difference. It's worth knowing what is on the news, because otherwise, pretty substantial changes in the stock market seem like they can just come out of the blue.

- Not realizing it takes 3 days for you to get money from the stocks you sold.
So, at first, I thought that when you sell a stock and it confirms that your sale went through, you immediately got the value of your stocks added to your account. I learned that it actually takes about 3 days for you to get the money from your sale. Which makes short term investments pretty moot. I heard opinions about why short term investments are a bad idea, which I respected of course (but still wanted to test for myself), but I didn't actually realize going into the stock market that in order for it to actually be possible for you to do short term investments without tying up a lot of your investing potential, you have to actually be an official day trader and have a certain amount of money in your account. A lot of money, actually, So really, it's not feasible/possible to do short-term investments as an ignorant layman. Lol. I mean, I suppose I should be grateful to Etrade for protecting me from my own "this is a game" mentality.

The Ex-Dividend Strategy:

I mentioned on the other thread that I was going to try this ex-dividend strategy, whereby I put my investment into a stock that offers a dividend, and then sell my stocks on the ex-dividend date. That way, I get paid the dividend, but I have the funds available so I can invest them in another stock that offers a dividend. It's come to my attention that this strategy may not work, so I'm hesitant about being positive in regards to it. I'm just basically testing it out with low hopes at this point.

The first dividend stock
So far, things seem to be working out. The first stock I did this with, I lost $24 when I sold the stock, but in theory, I should be getting $120 as a dividend tomorrow. When I first invested in this stock, I didn't appreciate the fact that the value of the stock might decrease quite a bit on the ex-dividend date, and particularly, in the morning. I sold the stock in the early afternoon - I should have sold it first thing in the morning. Also, I purchased it right before the date I needed to get the dividend, and in looking at the graph, I was pretty late to the party. A lot of other people had purchased the stock days earlier.

The second dividend stock
The second one I invested in worked out better in terms of immediate pay off. This stock, I invested in several days before the dividend date when the price was low, based on what I'd observed from the previous stock's behavior, in the event that the previous stock's behavior was the reflection of a trading pattern that was somewhat common.
This stock proceeded to go up in value as the ex-dividend date approached, and I sold it first thing in the morning on the ex-dividend date for a profit of $24, and a dividend of..I think $44.

I'm still skeptical about whether or not this strategy will work, because as someone pointed out to me here on this forum, if it DID work, then more people should be doing it. That seems like a pretty good assumption. At the moment, this strategy is really all I have to go on though if I want to engage the stock market on a semi-frequent basis, which I feel is necessary for me, personally, if I'm to learn about the stock market and stay engaged intellectually/emotionally with this hobby. Otherwise, if I have to wait 5 years to find out whether or not my hunch was correct, I don't think I would ever become very good at the stock market, because I wouldn't be able to try to practice what I've learned, and what I've researched would probably get forgotten/fall by the wayside. So even if this strategy isn't really a good one, I feel like I can use it as a good learning experience to learn why it wasn't good, and how to avoid similar frames of thought in the future.

The most challenging aspect of the stock market for me so far
I feel like this is a weird thing to be challenged by, but I would say that the most difficult part about the stock market so far, for me, has been trying to figure out Etrade's interface, their policies, and the weird little things that happen as a consequence of trading. Like, for instance, Etrade has a balance section where you can check your account balance, but your account value is broken down into a lot of different subsections that I found to be a little ambiguous - and when I tried to research things specific to the Etrade interface, I ended up finding articles and videos that teach general information about the stock market - not information about how Etrade, itself, works.
The fact that you don't get your money back immediately when you sell a stock also came as a surprise to me and I spun my wheels a bit trying to figure out why the money wasn't in my account. Another thing that sort of threw me for a loop happened when I sold a stock at a profit, and it ended up selling for less than I had agreed to sell it for on the preview screen. It actually ended up selling at a loss. It's little things like that which I feel a bit unprepared for because they aren't necessarily things you learn when you're taking a course on stocks, or getting general advice from other people.

Other than that, though, advice and information about the stock market is abundant. It's just not specific to the minor details, or interface-specific information.

The most exciting aspect of the stock market for me so far

What I've really enjoyed the most is learning about macro economics and watching the way international news impacts the stock market. This is totally new information to me, because I've always dealt with the economy on a small scale, as I do marketing for a living. Watching how the economy functions on a larger scale has given me a newfound appreciation for politics that I never thought I would feel!

My risky stock - INPX

This stock....how do I explain it. This stock reminds me of my ex-boyfriend.
I was ill-prepared to invest in this stock because my attitude going into it was "Let's take a bet on this one and see how it goes". The stock then TOOK OFF like a rocket, which baffled me (and the media apparently, so at least I wasn't alone), and put me in a really awkward position of having to make a financially responsible decision a lot sooner than I'd expected, and with very little research. I expected the stock market to be a slooowww thing. My relationship with this stock did not progress slowly.
So then, after this ridiculous boom in which this stock grew by some insane percent, I had to make a decision as to whether or not to sell it, and while I was deliberating and researching, the stock dropped a ton. Which, when I looked into it, appeared to perhaps be a consequence of the fact that the day was Friday. (weird). (also, probably not the best conclusion to draw and since debunked).
Since I was already vacillating on "should I stay or should I go" before-hand, I just decided to stay, because I had some faith that the software that the company was making was a good product, and was being marketed to a good audience that represented a low overhead and a relatively reliable payout. So I basically decided that the stock was worth keeping because of the company's potential.

THEN.
(My god, this company's stock value is a thing of drama...)
Then, it turned out that the stock (INPX), ran into some trouble because apparently this sort of penny stock thing isn't allowed to be traded on the Nasdaq, which doesn't list stocks under a dollar. So the NASDAQ told INPX "We're going to delist you". and INPX told their investors "We're going to do a reverse split". Which...from my research, I had understood to mean that they were going to increase the value of their stocks, while reducing the number of stocks I owned so that the value of of what I own more or less remains the same, and I had assumed from the tone of the article that I read that these decisions were generally a good thing, because they resulted in more trading and more interest in the company's stocks, which I assumed would probably lead to the stock price going up.
Wrong. So wrong. Lol!
It turns out that after this reverse split thing, every other trader on the face of the planet panicked and sold their stocks. Okay, I'm slightly exaggerating, but not by much. It was truly a thing to behold - how fast people ran for the hills. Now I understand why doing a reverse split was not a decision that the company took lightly. After they did this and everyone panicked and ran, they released some kind of statement that really came off like....an apology letter? Yikes.

Anyways, I decided to stay with the stock, because I have a high tolerance for bad relationships and this stock was giving me nostalgia. Jk! But still. I mean, at that point, I would just be losing money "for sure", and even though I'd already considered the money lost from the minute I invested it (after all, I'm an idiot whose gambling with stuff she doesn't understand), it just seemed somewhat stupid to approve of the money being lost to me forever, when my initial gut instinct was to stay with the company because it had "potential". Might as well stay the course at this point - it's not like I had much left to lose anyways. (Do you guys get why I gave up on dating? XD)

Just today, the stock started going back up again. They got a patent from Canada for their unique technology, so good for them. I still haven't made my money back, but maybe one day I will. Time will tell.

What I've learned from INPX was that the stock market can be way more volatile than I'd imagined. I also learned that just because a company seems to have a really great product, it's no guarantee that public sentiment will favor their prospects. (I was on the lookout for that being the case, because someone here gave me advice along those lines, so I was watching carefully for supporting evidence, which I found. Thanks for the tip!)
I also learned that, probably, my decision to stay with the company was a good one. If I'd sold when everyone else sold, I DEFINITELY would have lost quite a lot of money. Well, compared to what I invested, at least. If I sold at this point, I would lose significantly less. I don't know what makes people panic, but I feel like my experience with this stock has taught me not to fear that everyone else knows something I don't, when that happens, and just to weather the storm with a "we'll see" attitude.

Of all of the stocks I've invested in so far (which, granted, there's not many!), I consider this to be my most "successful" in a sense, because I set out to learn through practice, and this stock is constantly giving me new information to consider, challenging decisions to make, and it keeps throwing me for a loop. I definitely don't think I'll invest in another penny stock, but this stock was always meant to be a low-cost learning experience for me, and I don't think I could have picked a better experience to learn from!

A Brief Disclaimer

I feel like I need to mention that I realize that I'm ignorant and stupid - especially in terms of the stock market. I think, for some reason, the way I write just makes me come across like an arrogant know-it-all...which is really confusing to me because I definitely don't think of myself as someone who knows it all, and I constantly doubt myself. But, I think it has something to do with the language I use, because someone once told me that I speak like an audiobook and they thought it made me sound intimidating. I don't socialize much. Sometimes, I feel like some of the social graces are a bit lost on me, because I just don't really have a lot of experience socializing in the typical sense. People do talk to me a lot - and I talk to people a lot in that, when I do, I like to figure them out and learn from their experiences...but when people talk to me, willingly, I feel like our interactions aren't a typical example of how people generally talk. For instance, many people like to share their problems with me. For some reason. Peoples has suggested it's my face. Lol.
Anyways, let me just remind you all that you don't have to worry that I think highly of myself. You're free to try to knock me down a peg or two psychologically (yay for free speech!), but just be aware that if the way I talk is pissing you off, you're probably assuming I'm someone, or some way, that I'm not. And while it's true that every once in a while, I think I might be good at something, I never believe I will be good at it deep down. It's more of a determination to be an optimistic, positive person, and not let my personal emotions, or my fear of failure, interfere with my willingness to learn and try new things. I don't want to shrivel up and die a cold, old, miserable person with a pessimistic, narrow-minded outlook on life. Lol.

 

[washti]

why do you write about yourself in this humiliting manner - 'I'm ignorant and stupid'?
learning something new requires making assumptions, which are in many instances verified by reality as false.
is the repeating pattern of your disclaimers "I'M NOT KNOW-IT ALL, PLEASE PUT ME DOWN!I'M OK WITH THAT!" some form of fetish?
it's just coquetry? are you guarding before any blow strikes?
wait here's one : you are active, easily excited and long-winded about what's exites you. hardly a tragedy. actually often produces entertaining read.
FEEL THE PAIN.

 

[Inexorable Username]

why do you write about yourself in this humiliting manner - 'I'm ignorant and stupid'?
learning something new requires making assumptions, which are in many instances verified by reality as false.
is the repeating pattern of your disclaimers "I'M NOT KNOW-IT ALL, PLEASE PUT ME DOWN!I'M OK WITH THAT!" some form of fetish?
it's just coquetry? are you guarding before any blow strikes?
wait here's one : you are active, easily excited and long-winded about what's exites you. hardly a tragedy. actually often produces entertaining read.
FEEL THE PAIN.

Aww! I’m so glad you’re entertained! That’s an awesome compliment.

The reason I say those things is that I’m still trying to work out what to do about the fact that people have an issue with the way I talk. I seem to put myself across as some kind of arrogant, pompous bitch, who believes she can do everything better than everyone else or knows more than everyone else. I know it’s because I generalize and I state my opinions “as facts” - as someone put it to me...

But it’s because I feel like it should be pretty obvious what things are my opinions and which things are facts...and if I keep saying something is an opinion, it adds even more volume to my texts, which are already too long for most people.

So adding a disclaimer seems like a more efficient way of going, but I do recognize that it makes me look like I have self-hating behavior. I really don’t - because I’m totally okay with the fact that I don’t know everything and I’m probably no better than average on the intelligence scale...I don’t think those qualities are pre-requisites to being a respectable or admirable person. I think that having a willingness to learn and change, and having the ability to relate to there, are far more valuable qualities to have.

But if I say this disclaimer, I feel like people won’t get angry about what I say. They will read the disclaimer and realize that the image they formed of me based on their experiences with other people is an inaccurate representation of how I view myself, and the intent behind my words.

Otherwise, people feel driven to attack and correct what they see as character flaws. Like men, for instance, get the idea that I’m a feminist if I criticize the patriarchy. So I need a “not a feminist” disclaimer.

People who value logic and science will think I’m some kind of hippie liberal if I voice an opinion that goes against an accepted norm - like a theory of evolutionary biology - so i need the “not a hippie liberal” disclaimer.

And when it comes to stocks and investments - people really seem to get almost panic stricken at the idea that I might fancy myself some kind of economist, and they feel very motivated to make sure I know I have no idea what I’m talking about.

And I don’t see those tendencies as a bad thing...it’s just the way people are. Conversations you have with people, especially these days, often boil down to a person’s suspicions of what your intent is and whether or not you pose a threat. It’s why people on either side of the political line get so aggressive about putting down the other stance - they feel like the other stance threatens society in some way...that the person is dangerous or something.

I don’t really socialize much, as you can probably tell. I’m still struggling to understand why people often misinterpret my character - because I try very hard to be straight-foreword, to the point, objective, and just basically honest about who I am and how I see things...but I’m not a very typical person. And I end up getting branded with typical labels that don’t match who I am.

I’m not sure what to do about that. The issue is, once I get branded, if I try to tell people that’s an inaccurate view of who I am and where I’m coming from, it makes it look like I’m just being argumentative and trying to save face. It makes me look defensive and guilty.

So I feel like I have to get there first, before they label me, so then I have something to fall back on. I can say - look, I told you at the outset that I wasn’t like x - you just chose not to believe me.

The only other solution I can think of is just not to voice opinions, which, when I get a bit frustrated, almost seems to me to be what people want/expect of me - to just not have thoughts and opinions, especially if they’re in any way different. That just makes me not want to socialize though. Socialization gets cryingly boring to me if I can’t share my philosophies and engage in conversations that have interesting topics.

So I need to figure out how to socialize in such a way as to accurately and honestly represent myself to others while also voicing my opinions, beliefs, and philosophies.

If I don’t voice them...nobody has the opportunity to add to them or correct me when I’m wrong. Which is the point of having a conversation to begin with.

Make sense?

 

[Inexorable Username]

One day, maybe I will have a broader perspective of the world and I’ll see a way in which I can phrase what I have to say so that I’m both being accurate, and also not being offensive or putting myself across the wrong way...and people won’t feel threatened by me.

I’ve been thinking about trying to be the ESTJ personality type - at least for a little while. Marbles apparently tried this experiment though and it did not suit him. I was hoping it would give me some clarity insofar as socialization is concerned, but maybe it will just knock me back a step and make everything much more confusing.

 

[Inexorable Username]

Brain: Don’t say that thing. That has never worked out in your favor.
Body: you know she’ll say it anyways. Why bother?
Me: It needs to be said. There might be more information I could miss out on if I don’t just say it. It’s worth the risk.
Brain: It’s not worth the time you spend trying to understand the way people respond to it.
Body: true. It makes you lay ‘round like a rotting veggie.
Brain: Why is the veggie rotting?
Body: cause it stinks.
Me: I’m gonna say it.
Brain: Nooo!!
Body: don’t. I need to do things today.
Brain: We can’t afford to process the social feedback!
Body: must...resist...the urge to speak...
(...)
Brain: She said it.
Me: What?! What do you mean you think I’m SEXIST?!
Brain: Annnddd...here we go.
Body: i feel tired.
Brain: Go to sleep. You’re no longer needed. Me, on the other hand? I’ll be up for hours.
Me: ;_; but...but...I’m not sexist? Why would someone think I’m sexist?
Brain: Who knows. We don’t. But we’re going to spend the next 10 hours trying to figure it out I bet.
Me: You know me too well.

 

[Inexorable Username]

@darque I had my parents take the test. Mom is an INTJ and dad is an ENTJ. My best friend, Allie, is an INFJ. Sort of hilarious in a way because I think all of these personalities are supposed to be fairly rare, and mom and mine are especially rare for women, I think.

It also kind of explains a lot. Dad is great with finance. Mom and I have always made an excellent team. I’m the spontaneous, creative, excitable one and she is the organized, “get it done”, pragmatic one.

My friend Allie is the empath to end all empaths. Without her influence, I don’t know that I would have come to appreciate my own emotions as readily, or engaged in as much honest introspection as I have. I don’t think I would have seen the flaws in myself that I’ve seen. She’s also broadened my mind when it comes to things that are spiritual or mystical. I’m still very narrow-minded in that regard, but not nearly as much as I would have been without her influence.

I have a very close relationship with my mother and my friend, and I admire them and respect them for the aspects they have that I do not. It wasn’t until I took the MBTI and had them take it as well that I realized we make a weird kind of triad. INTP, INTJ, and INFJ.

Ever since I found that out, I’ve been frankly fascinated by my relationship with what I would call “influencers”. People who have had the biggest impact on who I am as a person.

Dad is the ENTJ, and he’s like...unrelatable, but in a very weird way because the two of us are very similar. It’s his extroversion and his money sense that I find so different. He is constantly trying to get mom and I to go to all his club things and get togethers, because, I think, he enjoys the “family thing”. It’s like we’re part of his outfit. I go to this things, and I try to awkwardly go unnoticed and then, out of nowhere, he will be like “And THIS is my DAUGHTER!”
Half the time I’m like...taking a sip of my drink or something. And then all of the sudden seven people are staring at me waiting for me to...to...like, daughter. Or something.

Mom is no better. I at least do what I can to try to look normal. She brings her headphones and listens to storybooks or plays Pokemon go XD

She gets dragged out a lot more though. It’s her duty. I’m an adult daughter so I can get out of it by saying I “have to work”.

It’s fascinating though, the little subtle differences...don’t you think? Well. Maybe it’s just fascinating to me because I know these people.

I have a lot of admiration for Dad’s understanding of the economy, the stock market, and how to make money. He’s very good at it. He values money, but we’re a very down to earth family. We don’t spend it much. To Dad, I think it’s more of a...hmm...like - a game of monopoly. He likes the rat race but not in a selfish way. He just enjoys passing go and getting $200.

I think without his example, I would have never learned to respect wealth. I grew up in a snotty area where I more or less learned that phoney corrupts and that people who lust for it are often poor examples of humankind. Selfish people. Judgemental people. People that put winning above things like loyalty and friendship. I don’t like people like that. And they’re all miserable and shallow too...plus they lie. And manipulate.

I decided at an early age, much to my mothers dismay and my fathers bemusement, not to date boys that have too much money XD

I think they were really confused, as an INTJ and an ENTJ how I could harbor such a philosophy and still be related. Lol.

I sucked at the dating thing anyways though. Poor quality people come from all income brackets. It’s hard to identify metrics they have in common.

The other person in my life that I have a significant relationship with is my grandma, who is an ISTJ. Very tidy woman. She always has matching pocket books and shoes and her hair is always “just so”. It’s weird to me that I can enjoy and respect her fashion sense, but still not respect fashion. I just can’t see the logic in fashion. I can’t see why it matters. I have a particular uniform that I wear to work. Onesie adult PJs and a rats nest bun. Obviously, I work from home. Lol. I have like...8 onesies. They’re perfect. When I run out of them I start wearing sweats and leggings until, once every three weeks, I stage a mad, frantic cleanathon where I stay up until 4 in the morning cleaning all of my clothes in desperation because there’s nothing clean left to wear.
-_- this is my life...I am so disorganised.

 

[darque]

Well thankyou for the invite Inex.
Am I in the spiders lair? Its hard to tell, its all so black here...

And thank you for sharing. You are a very open and expressive person, which is a rare trait and makes me think those good looking parents of yours have done a decent job, usual terrors of growing up aside of course, not much they can do to prevent that.

Well, I think we have found a friend in each other.

I brought it to the attention of me that I post way too many threads, and subsequently run round to - not only my own threads - but everyone else’s too...and pollute those as well with massive posts at high frequencies, and perceptively high velocities.

Well, hang onto your britches girly, I have my own special style to kill threads stone dead, so never fear you are not alone with concerns that you will overwhelm others. We all have Fe inferior. The inferior slot is where our fears manifest so we are all petrified that we will not be liked. As much as INTPs can go all 'brain the size of a planet' we are insecure about how we are perceived... generally for valid reason.

Dad is the ENTJ, and he’s like...unrelatable, but in a very weird way because the two of us are very similar.

Well, there is you shadow, weird but similar... sounds about right to me.

I appreciate all the detail you have provided, I have a lot of thoughts that I could offer, but I too feel I am coming in a little too strong and need to chill a bit. So I'll give you a some more general stuff about me.

So, 51, live in Perth Western Australia. I'm married to an ISTJ Clinical Psyche who is very much my soul mate. We have been married for nearly 2 years, together 7. This match gets a bad rap, and sure we have our broken record issues, but all types have strengths and weaknesses and these clash, or at least should else you will get complacent.

The reality is she is intelligent, wise and as deep as an ocean. When you meet someone who can seriously go the intellectual distance with you, and have depth in places you have not fully explored they're a keeper. As INTP are adaptable and find everything interesting, we will get enthusiastic when with others that have passions so we are always happy to add another area of knowledge to our understanding. I have a longstanding interest in psychology... we probably all do as we all like complexity and people are complex, so we talk for hours. Neither of us need much extroverted stimulation so we don't need to come up for air very often which allows long cave dives.

As we don't need... or can't tolerate a lot of others in our life I think an intimate other is essential for our happiness. There are some sad threads here and I intend to stick something decent in there to give people some hope. Relationships is one of Claire and I's staple topics as she is very passionate about helping others get into healthy relationships so the intricacies of dating is an area we have discussed at depth and have some well tested theories about how to do this right.

It sounds like you are currently single? If so you will be getting some quizzing, and homework in this area madam because it is not good for us to be alone. We need intimacy. Same sex friends are fine but we need intimacy and depth to really feel valued. I'm not sure there is anything that can match a deep intellectual emotionally validating discussion whilst slowly making love; that is serious adult shit, and not easy to do with honesty as you need a lot of hours of discussion to get to know and trust each other first; but enough pillow biting

Ok, so prior to this I was married for 23 years and have 3 kids: a 26 yo INTJ daughter, 24 yo INFP daughter and a 17 yo ____ son. I'm not sure of my son, he tells me he reports as INTP like me but I am not buying it... although thinking about it, apparently we have a difficult time typing our own type so this could be true.

I still have an ok... relationship with my ex. She is a bit messed up from bad parenting but basically it was a bad match as she lacked the intellectual horse power. This is a common INTP trap. Because we are flexible we think our needs are small but they are no. You need an intellectual equal.

I have a couple of male friends, decent guys that are fairly close in type but I rarely see them once, maybe twice a year... sometimes a bit more. We enjoy each others company but Mehhh, its hard work to line up as we are all busy. But that is generally enough as they are memorable experiences and give me a decent fill for a while. They are always available and I can chase them if I need to. They respond.

Ummm, family. youngest of 3 boys. My Mum passed away about 5 years ago after a long decline from Alzismers, it was a relief in the end. Dad is still going strong and has a new partner. I have a good relationship with Dad and rarely see my brothers. Eldest is probably an E__J..., middle is an ISTP as is Dad I think, never really seriously tried to type them. So Dad & Stew (middle) are two peas in a pod, I'm closer to my eldest Keith but could never really get close to any of them.

They all have EQ and Keith has depth if he wants to go there, but it is too much work to get him to stay on track so I generally don't bother. Dad & Stew look at me with pity lol. They think I'm from Mars, I get some sort of sadistic pleasure in feeding them really big chunks of abstract information. They try hard and can keep up for a few seconds before their eyes glaze over, lol, poor dears.

Anyway that's the nutshell. Everything I have seen you write resonates with me. You are a very normal INTP and there is no need to be anything different. Don't fear, trust and be honest with yourself. Our capacity to analyse and dive to unbelievable depths is valuable and valued by others. The worst thing we can do is try to 'fit in' we do it badly.

I like you Inex, your writing is charming and delightful and I look forward to seeing more of that big brain of yours. Ignore the media stereo types of male / female as they are shallow and unfounded, but do work on finding what femininity means for you, it is important and life is much easier when people know how to treat us.

I think it is a tragedy that women have felt the need to masculinise to be acknowledged, I would argue it has had the opposite effect and we now have a generation of young people that are more sexually confused than ever and don't know how to approach each other in fear they may offend. Well done, that was a great outcome.

People are so very complicated that we need social norms to use as the basis of our relationships. We have confused this so much now, because apparently we can be anything we want to be, but this is unbelievably selfish and disrespectful to others. It is our responsibility to present ourselves in a manner that is easily interpreted. To make others at ease and to know the rules of the social game we are playing.

I saw a great example on the train a few months ago where an older man stood up for a younger woman and gestured for her to sit down, she shook her head and he reiterated, and again she shook her head and they both looked embarrassed and uncomfortable. Then an older woman leaned forward to her and said, let him be a gentleman dear and she sat down.

You see, she assumed he was insinuating that she was weak and therefore she needed the seat more than him, however, the gesture was not about her, it was about him exercising his personal values, good values, passed on from his parents. By not playing the game you are devaluing him and the values he defines himself as a good person with. We don't have a right to do that to anyone. This ideology of the evil patriarchal society and that men think women are weak and not competent is very damaging to our respect for each other and very insulting to men who have been taught good values.

Both Claire and I always dress well and appropriately when we are out. We feel it is important to set an example and to advertise to others that we can be approached and interacted with using traditional manners and we comply with social norms. It puts others at ease around us as they know the rules of the game. We are also honouring each other as we both get looks from the opposite sex.

Anyway, that's my opinion on dress. I agree with you that the fashion industry is built on all the wrong values and as an INTP, I don't care about appearance and are not very good at picking fashionable things anyway. INTP also love our comfort, so I get the onesies, I wear my sheepskin Ugg boots all year round, all day if I can. But the thing we can do well is plan, research and learn, I recommend it.

Someone who has taken the time to present well, gets respect and attention from both sexes and that feels good. With Fe inferior, that's important for us as we do not need the distraction of worrying what others think. As soon as you open your mouth your intellect will be immediately obvious and not in question, so that just makes you the full package. I do not understand how any of that can de-value.

Anyway that's enough for now, plenty of time later and I can let you talk now. Never worry about over posting or that I would think this or that, I like the nity gritty detail and if I don't understand I will ask. I always give people the benefit of the doubt and never judge anyone on a single comment or statement, we all make mistakes or fail to give context. Pattern over time is what counts. Told you I could ramble too lol

 

[Inexorable Username]

It sounds like you are currently single? If so you will be getting some quizzing, and homework in this area madam because it is not good for us to be alone. We need intimacy. Same sex friends are fine but we need intimacy and depth to really feel valued. I'm not sure there is anything that can match a deep intellectual emotionally validating discussion whilst slowly making love; that is serious adult shit, and not easy to do with honesty as you need a lot of hours of discussion to get to know and trust each other first; but enough pillow biting

I don't see myself as "single", I see myself as done. Lol. I'm a thirty year old woman, and at this point in my life, I've come to respect the fact that I am much, much happier alone. I tend to not even have friends, really, so much as I have people I talk to here and there. The one exception is Allie, my "soul sister" (we have very strange commonalities and absolutely absurd coincidences that violate my sense of randomness).

Feeling alone is not good for me. Definitely, I have a habit of isolating, and that has a marked affect on the way I think and perceive the world. I start to become excessively objectified and perhaps even disassociated when I'm isolated for too long. Ironically, I enjoy that feeling...it's very..hmm. Quiet. Peaceful. However, I can get "stuck" in behavioral patterns that are self-destructive, so I need human interaction to balance myself out. I get that from my one friend, Allie, as well as my mom, dad, and grandma. I have one friend I occasionally talk to on the phone...because she refuses to text me. That's about it! Any more people in my life beyond that, and there are consequences. I start feeling overwhelmed, disorganized, anxious about my social responsibilities, and inevitably unmotivated and depressed.

I almost never, never feel alone. Even when I was a kid, and traveling a lot, I can only remember one time in my life when I got homesick. It was truly awful. I feel bad for people that are prone to it. Any time I feel alone, it's fleeting, usually at night - and that's what I got two cats for. They cuddle my self-pity away. Nothing like getting vibrating cuddles from a warm fluffy cute thing.

I do know what you mean about the deep, intellectual fulfillment. I had that once before in someone I dated, and it was really magical...but it didn't last. I've never really been able to choose partners that respect me, I think. I also get the feeling that, despite having presumably high levels of estrogen, other people interpret me as "dominant". This makes no sense to me in a relationship context, because I am very dedicated to making my relationships successful, and I put a lot of time and effort into making my partner happy. However...most female "friends" I have - they're more like female followers. I don't really have the kind of feminine, cutesy relationships with girls that they seem to have with one another. We don't gush about...stuff. Really any stuff. Women come to me for advice and intellectual discussions, but even then, the discussions are pretty one sided and I feel sometimes like I'm talking to a wall. Not because the person I'm talking to is unintelligent, but because they just seem too timid to engage. Over time, I've learned to become more encouraging...I think. I hope. As far as men go - I think there's something about my personality men just don't like. I've had issues talking to men, because, I think, I'm sometimes perceived as aggressive when in my own mind, I think I'm just being passionate. The bottom line is, there's something about my behavior that doesn't mix well with dating. And at the end of the day - I just can't really see what I get out of it. I make enough money to get by, and I like that I can buy myself nice things if I really want them, without having someone else decide whether or not I should have them. I don't cry when I'm alone. I'm almost always happy. I'm much more productive. I learn a lot more. In my head, I feel much more intelligent, and I feel much more intellectually fulfilled because I get satisfaction from the work that I do. I also have dreams which I can't necessarily realize if someone else is in the picture.

What I discovered about myself during the whole dating thing is that I will bend over backwards for other people, but it exhausts me. My day isn't my own. My emotions are dependent on the way someone else treats me. Most of my day is spent on frustratingly mundane activities. I have to live my life for someone else. I have to set aside my own dreams and ambitions. I can't just buy something because I wan't it. I can't just leave the house - I have to explain myself. I can't stay up all night because I'm passionate about the work I'm doing. I can't just put my life on the back burner that day because I'm learning something new, or researching something. I can't do things and not be interrupted. I have to give up a lot. Like - so much. I just haven't encountered a man that understands that we're both making sacrifices - it's not just him - and that I don't NEED to be taken care of. It's NICE to be taken care of, but I'm not like a child, or an animal. I'm perfectly able to thrive independently. Do I like having to relocate the spiders in my bathroom? No. And I'm afraid of emptying vacuums...I know - neurotic. Lol. But on the other hand, being constantly expected to have sex with someone just pretty much sucks. I never felt properly respected in my relationships for my intelligence, either. Guys seem to either want to be condescending to me and treat me like I'm about 12, and don't understand the world, or they don't respect my knowledge, my research, or my thought processes. I'm very empathetic. The men I've met don't value that. They think it's weakness.

I've gotten a lot of mixed messages too. Be a housewife because it's the right thing to do - it's selfish not to be around to raise your kids, and you're the woman, so that's your job. Have a second job because I shouldn't have to support us both. It's selfish to sit around the house all day, expecting me to pay for you. You don't need to wear makeup all the time...why don't you wear makeup more often. >_>

I've tried on many different "hats", and many different approaches - but the guys I end up with....even though they don't admit to it outwardly....they don't respect women. They really seem to believe that women are stupider than men, and that women are weak because of their compassion. And that women are only fit for bearing and raising children. I've tried so many different ways of finding men who have philosophies I've identified with - but I'm just not good at picking out who is being honest and who is misrepresenting themselves. People aren't going to admit to being sexist. And unfortunately, I think because of the way I look, or perhaps because of the way I act, I tend to attract men that don't treat women very well. I mean, they're all a bit different though in that regard. One guy was a closet neo-nazi -_-...sigh. Honestly, thinking about how hard I tried to find good people with strong values and a good moral compass - it just frustrates me all over again because I can't, for the life of me, figure out what it is that I was doing wrong - or why my appearance or attitude advertises me as a walking door mat.

Anyways, long story short, I decided that I wanted to be single when I went to CS college. Then I fell off the wagon. (Love and such). Now I'm back on it, and once again, very happy about it. It just took me a very long time to understand that I didn't have to do things the way everyone else was telling me they had to be done. I'm very satisfied with my charitable goals. They make me feel driven, passionate, validated, etc. My goal in that regard pretty much fulfills me in every sense. Whatever else I need, I get from my relationships with animals, and my family members, and my friend. I'm finally at a point in my life where I can say that depression is probably a thing of the past. As are most of my insecurities, self-doubts, etc. They're a little more apparent here, because I sort of use this website as a tool for self-betterment.

And in any case. I'm 30. I'm too old to properly find the right person, spend enough time with them to know that they're the right person, buy a house with them, and have kids. I was pretty much out of time at age 27, and that's when I got into my last bad relationship. The only real reason I ever had for getting married was that I wanted to have kids. For a while, I also sort of wanted to get a sense of respect and teamwork from someone - but I get that from my work now.

I think that relationships are the answer for most people. Most people seem to need them more than I do, and I think they would never be satisfied without them. I think I've learned a lot - a lot of really valuable, positive lessons, and I don't think at all that my experience with men is representative of men as a whole. It's some sort of defect in me, personally. So I like trying to help people sometimes by sharing what I've learned, personally, and I've gotten some feedback that I can do a fairly good job at that. I like to see it as a use for my empathetic side.

But I prefer to be a bystander. In the morning...I wake up...and I just roll over and look at my whiteboard, and I think to myself...You make me so happy whiteboard. When I look at you, I see potential written all over your face. Every morning I wake up and see you staring at me with a motley collection of different expo inks (my least favorite of which is the green of course) - I think to myself. Wow. How lucky are we to have each other? (I honestly do think things along these lines...like - how lucky I am not to live in some third world country where I would be married off at age 13 to be someones sex slave. I feel pretty privileged to have been born in this country.)

Don't fear, trust and be honest with yourself. Our capacity to analyse and dive to unbelievable depths is valuable and valued by others. The worst thing we can do is try to 'fit in' we do it badly.

That's been my mantra for probably about a year now! I finally figured out that fitting in, and trying to do things the way people generically told me was the right way to do them - it just wasn't going to work for me. Ever since I made that choice, I've been much, much happier.

I saw a great example on the train a few months ago where an older man stood up for a younger woman and gestured for her to sit down, she shook her head and he reiterated, and again she shook her head and they both looked embarrassed and uncomfortable. Then an older woman leaned forward to her and said, let him be a gentleman dear and she sat down.

You see, she assumed he was insinuating that she was weak and therefore she needed the seat more than him, however, the gesture was not about her, it was about him exercising his personal values, good values, passed on from his parents. By not playing the game you are devaluing him and the values he defines himself as a good person with. We don't have a right to do that to anyone. This ideology of the evil patriarchal society and that men think women are weak and not competent is very damaging to our respect for each other and very insulting to men who have been taught good values.

I think you've potentially let yourself be influenced in the opposite direction of the current PC-driven perspective. The "evil patriarchal society" - for instance. It's emotionally charged. Sometimes when I run into perspectives like that, and I'm not saying you're like this - but sometimes those perspectives seem to stem from frustration towards things like censorship, and from a fear that if the opposite side isn't demonized, it might "take hold" and influence even more people. It's kind of like getting extreme in the opposite direction, out of defensiveness. I can't be sure that you're like that - and hopefully, I don't sound condescending, but I feel like I can just be honest with you without having to pussyfoot around, and it's really a relief. Maybe I'm wrong though, and that perspective will upset you. In which case, I can be more respectful and graceful about delivering my opinions in the future.

There are certainly things about the patriarchy that are quite negative, and there's many things about the way things "used to be" that are simply not very good. There's also many things about the PC/liberal culture that are not good, and quite negative. I'm not a very political person...but I have a gift for annoying people on both sides of the political debate. -_- Oh well! Thats my thought on that.

Insofar as your example is concerned, I think you may be reading into this woman's reaction incorrectly...potentially because there's a loud liberal minority that will say that women shouldn't allow men to be chivalrous because it's patronizing. Some women do see it that way, but I feel like it's pretty obvious when you run into a woman like that. They're rude, and they look bitchy and angry. That's my personal opinion, at least.

But this woman you're describing - I think I would have the EXACT same reaction she did, and it isn't because I would feel offended. First off, it's just downright weird to offer you seat to someone who doesn't have a good reason to need it. She's a young woman. Healthy. Capable of standing. The fact that he's older makes it even worse. I would feel wrong to accept a seat from him - like I'm taking advantage of his kindness. Using him because he's a decent person. The other thing is - that doesn't happen these days anymore, and because it's outdated, when it does happen to you, it's really, really confusing. I was quite rude to a man once who held the door for me. It was my first day of class, and I was rushing, and late, and he reached the door before I did (which was annoying because he was being slow and I was in a rush, but whatever), and then he opened the door...and he just - stood there. I waited for him to walk through the door for maybe half a second before I just kind of shot him a glare and rushed passed him. It wasn't until I got to the top of the stairs that I realized he was holding to door for me. I felt incredibly mortified, guilty, embarrassed, and self-conscious about it. I just ran to class. I didn't know what to do about the situation. I know enough from being a weird person that trying to explain myself would have made it even worse...

The truth is, when you cling tooth and nail to old, outdated social niceties, you're not necessarily observing the original intent that was meant to be expressed by the manners you've learned. The intent was, as you rightfully said, to make others feel comfortable. When you pull some random old-fashioned manners out of nowhere, though, and it isn't something that regularly happens these days, it makes people feel distinctly uncomfortable. It's awkward. You don't know how to respond...and because it doesn't really factually make sense, it's difficult to pick a reaction that's appropriate.

Also - just as another point to add to that...it's polite to decline multiple times when someone offers you something. Like, with doors, you should say "Oh no, you first" - and this goes back and forth two or three times until someone graciously accepts. That's what it's like in the south at least. In the north, people are much more fast-paced. So this girl that was caught off guard by this strange offer out of the blue to rob someone of their seat - she was probably searching for an appropriate response. The fact that she heeded the other woman and didn't accuse the guy of being sexist is a good suggestion of the fact that she didn't mean to be insulting, but she wasn't sure what was expected of her.

We feel it is important to set an example and to advertise to others that we can be approached and interacted with using traditional manners and we comply with social norms....
Someone who has taken the time to present well, gets respect and attention from both sexes and that feels good.

I think this might be a large part of my problem. I don't like to be noticed. I've had a lot of stalkers, and times where I've felt uncomfortable with the way men look at me or covertly follow me in a supermarket, for instance. I understand it better now to a large degree, because it's hard for men to strike up a conversation and some men are shy. Also, there's a massive fear of rejection there - and since I think there's something about me that intimidates people or which people maybe find too assertive or self-assured, I can see why I might intimidate people. I've had situations where I wished someone shy would talk to me, but since I was too shy to kick it off, we just sit there in awkward silence.

In any case, I don't like feeling like I'm in a spotlight. Few things make me feel self-conscious, but I definitely feel self-conscious about my body, because I've never looked like women do in media and advertising and it's hard for me to find clothes that fit...so when people stare at me in public, it makes me feel really uncomfortable and embarrassed. I also really, really hate when people stare at me, or follow me, and don't just come up to me and say something. I've also heard a male point of view a couple of times that women who dress nicely and wear makeup secretly want the attention - that they're "asking for it". I've even been told that by women, actually, in a much nastier, meaner way, in regards to me essentially not being able to wear certain shirts and such. Not only am I self-conscious about my body, but I also dread random conversations with strangers that I'm not prepared for, if there's something they want from me. So that kind of attention you're talking about...I really, really hate that attention. I don't go out in public much as it is. I feel like some of my uncomfortable experiences with drawing unwanted attention have, in a way, given me - not really social anxiety - but social aversion. I learned to buy feminine products at two o'clock in the morning when I was living in California, because there's nothing like having tampons and Kraft macaroni and cheese in your shopping cart and having people either stare at you, or very deliberately, carefully avoid looking in your direction. I don't think it's even about me, in particular. I feel like people are just much more rude than they used to be in this regard. When I grew up, I learned that it was rude to stare.

Someone who has taken the time to present well, gets respect and attention from both sexes and that feels good. With Fe inferior, that's important for us as we do not need the distraction of worrying what others think.

See - when I try to present well, I do get respect, but I also get attention and it doesn't make me feel good, and instead, makes me worry about what other people are thinking.

Also, people that are being attentive - they're kind of cagey about it. There's attentive people who, when you make eye contact with them, smile, because they're just being friendly people and maybe they liked your necklace. Then there are people who when you look at them, they quickly look away. That's what bothers me. I never know what those people are thinking. They don't give me the social cues to know whether or not they're thinking nice things about me. But I feel awkward about the way I look to other people, and I sometimes can get flustered in public if I'm being too slow getting change out of my wallet, or if I misplace my keys, or if I should have gotten a cart instead of a basket. It's like I constantly have an audience for every failure of being a normal human out doing normal shopping, that I demonstrate. XD
I've tried various things to address the issue, but I feel like what works best is just to dress poorly and not wear makeup...and then nobody notices I'm there, and I feel like I'm socializing, but privately to myself. I don't know if that makes any sense! I have issues. I've been known to just go to the library and park in the parking lot, roll the window down, and get my work done like that...so I sort of feel like I'm out in public, without being in the actual library, where there was a guy that would come all the time and talk to me while I was trying to work. (It wasn't just me. He's done that with my mom too. Hangs out by the computers, waiting for friends.)

As soon as you open your mouth your intellect will be immediately obvious and not in question, so that just makes you the full package. I do not understand how any of that can de-value.

It does -_-.....It DEFINITELY does. It's the way I talk, or act, or something. As soon as I open my mouth - in an honest, genuine, "just be myself" way, I make things awkward and chase people off. Unless they're exceptionally determined to stick it out, in which case we can sometimes have interesting conversations. But opening my mouth hasn't really don't me many favors in a relationship sense either. That sounded wrong. I mean - having opinions and voicing them - not so good. I guess it makes me appear too assertive or something.

Peoples brought up the point that it might be my face. Lol. I thought it was cute and funny at the time but I'm starting to think maybe he has a point. It might be that I look too...hmm...like, unconventional, to be a person that has opinions on things and is passionate about discussing them. It could be that people find it hard to reconcile my appearance with that kind of personality type. I do get people, at social gatherings, who will come up to me and lay some very deep, dark, sad truths of their life on me...which is awkward, because we don't necessarily know each other that well and I don't know how to help. But maybe I just have the face of a therapist!

 

[darque]

Thank you Inex, I can see a lot of scars in the second half of that post. I am so very sorry the way you have been treated Inex, the world is a harsh and difficult place and serves us a nice recipe of personal insecurities custom prepared for a uniquely individual form of suffering.

In time I can go head to head with you regarding all those experiences. Try starting with a concrete family where it is painfully obvious that you are the odd one out. You learn pretty quickly to keep you crazy intuitive dreams to yourself to avoid the shock and embarrassment of being crashed back to earth. Don't get me wrong, my family are good people and I love them all but oil and water is just what it is.

All INTP appear to be amazingly resilient and have great inner strength that would destroy most people and I suspect our particular personal suffering is the conditioning we go through. Although we are creative and intuitive, we are actually a concrete personality type it is just that we keep it well protected and guarded deep inside of us. Buried behind layers of sacrificial and increasingly superficial information that appears highly intimate but we can work around it if damaged.

Sadly our outer flesh gets scourged the worst by the harsh elements and the cruelty of others lashing out from their own fears, disappointments and confusion. It is a curse that we see the future suffering of others and we have to try and help prevent it, sometimes it works, often it doesn't. Always we are hurt from trying.

I can't be sure that you're like that - and hopefully, I don't sound condescending, but I feel like I can just be honest with you without having to pussyfoot around, and it's really a relief. Maybe I'm wrong though, and that perspective will upset you. In which case, I can be more respectful and graceful about delivering my opinions in the future.

You can be honest, I'm married to an ISTJ. They are blunt by nature. I don't like beating around the bush as I get frustrated if I realise I have been thinking incorrectly because someone was attempting to protect my feelings. We work hard to seperate emotional bias from thinking as it creates spurious results.

Feelings are definitely considered but they are contextual so they need to be appropriately applied. We cannot avoid subjective information slipping in and people can get frustrated or concerned because we can appear unsure or we appear to change our opinion on a subject. Good logic never changes but context does.

You are graceful its a feminine trait. As I have just explained we are complex with many sacrificial layers. For me this is what I was trying to express... badly. I understand that what you desire is anonymity, you are preaching to the converted. The most invisible you can be is to be neat, well presented and generic.

People only see what they wish to see and will use someone who looks like they are worse of than themselves as a prop to improve their own ego. Don't offer them the foot up Inex. Quite franky you are offering yourself as the door mat and you are more important than that.

I use social norms, they don't define me. Like you I also worked hard to keep to the shadows... still do; my sister in-law calls me a ninja. However, I have found there is nothing less interesting than a boring average jo man who follows stereo typical behaviour. Unless they earn the privilege to know more about me I don't give them the pleasure of using me to support their prejudice and if I get an occasional smile from an attractive woman, well all the better.

I fully understand your preference to be alone, I certainly would not try to change or nag you. Its impossible to change an INTPs mind, only we do that, and invariably we will put forward a decent argument in the present but the good stuff still goes in and if in makes sense in our own context we will adopt.

You will see me write in many different styles, depending on the context and how much shock or awe, intimacy or generic information I wish to convey in different posts, of if I think people need a bit of a shakeup, but there will always be a little of the inner me in there as I have very deep morals and beliefs and I am driven to be a good person who is valuable to others.

I will try and remove as many of those layers here and be as brutally honest as I can, but to be honest I think I'm an infinite babushka with new layers appearing for every layer I remove. At least I'm never fearful to expose more.

 

[darque]

Oh, one important thing, I am saying 'we' a lot. I'm sorry if that is offensive or making you uncomfortable, I'm just trying to save time having to play snap and verify things that I assume are generic INTP traits. I'm just trying to get the basics out the way so we can be more abstract and use verified assumed knowledge.

I am fiercely independent in my thinking. Even to the point that I speed up or slow down if I sense my walking is synchronising with another person, drives me crazy.

Fe however is a different story, I'm screwed when getting admonished by another person. I go all 6 year old and feel ashamed and embarrassed, completely brain dead and blank until I walk out of the room, then pop! all the logic wit and sarcasm I could have said is back. Damn Fe.

I just want you to understand that you are not alone, or that no one can understand how difficult these things are to manage. The way they manifest for you will be unique but there are reasons why. I want to help you understand the why so you can build strategies that work for you. Thats all, I will stop if you prefer.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

A lot of what you stated about being 'done with relationships' is familiar to me. Not that I'm 'done' myself, I was never really open to it to begin with. Formal relationships with men always made me extremely uncomfortable. I was kindof notorious when I was young for only dating for extremely brief periods of time before I ran away. I decided fairly young they weren't for me and haven't done 'proper' relationships since. I like belonging to myself. It's curious to me that you ever wanted kids, considering you have a similar mentality to me.

I suppose I'm technically open to formal relationships with women now, but I'm rather ambivalent. If you're going to be with someone; you should passionately want to be with them imo. So my own ambivalence I take as a sign I shouldn't engage, because I wouldn't be a good partner. As crotchety as I am, accidentally hurting people, especially in a romantic context fucking destroys me. Most relationships, don't work. Try as you like, people get hurt when relationships don't work.

....and boy, have I seen a lot of relationships that just don't work. It's always ugly and painful. There's never and rhyme or reason to it. Lol probably half the user base here thinks I'm a harpy feminist that crushes balls, but tbh I've spent years of my life helping men get out of horribly toxic or abusive relationships, retain access to their children, and recover their sense of self-determination. Then this past year taking care of a man who forced my mother to marry her rapist at age 18, a marriage that was of course abusive to the point of mortal peril. (fuck christianity btw) Hell, if a ton of my bandwidth isn't consumed by concern over for the well-being of the men in my life.

I relate a your bit about playing therapist too. I've been playing therapist so long, I have nothing left. Not online mind, but offline, it's historically the only way I get close to people. People have always just spilt their guts to me or I've seen a problem and, fuck, I have to try to fix it. They vast majority of my important meatspace relationships are client/therapist. One of the aforementioned divorcees tells me he's that happiest he's ever been in his whole life and thanks me, the other in a steady recovery still, but doing far better, my grandfather's dead and while my Mom still needs me and is in mourning; I see this profound new possibility in her life. She's now free in a way she's never been before. I'm happy right? That they're doing well. When they needed help I was there and I was able to, not fix things, but help them find strength for themselves. I did good right? I didn't fail. But this means the nature of these relationships is changing, it's not client/therapist anymore. This should be good right? They even see sometimes, when I'm sloppy. That I'm not quite alright and try to reciprocate and help, but I just can't do that. I don't know how to be anything else. Plus I can't even play therapist to new people anymore, because I'm just that empty now. I have no more bandwidth, no more compassion to expend to people don't already know. I suppose I was foolish to think I could operate in such a capacity indefinitely without the consequences to my psyche catching up with me. You spend your life picking up pieces, what do you do when there's nothing left to pick up? Or at least nothing you can pick up, because the pieces are glued to the floor and some problems can't be fixed.

Man this got really tangential, and personally autobiographical.
I just meant to say that I relate on those few points.

Since you have expressed desire to learn more about me, I assume it's cool? Apologies if not. It is your blog.

 

[Marbles]

Don't give in to the dark side!

Fear of men leads to anger,
Anger leads to hate,
Hate leads to suffering.

 

[Inexorable Username]

Don't give in to the dark side!

Fear of men leads to anger,
Anger leads to hate,
Hate leads to suffering.

Lmao. Marbles. You're hilarious.

 

[Marbles]

Don't give in to the dark side!

Fear of men leads to anger,
Anger leads to hate,
Hate leads to suffering.

Lmao. Marbles. You're hilarious.

<3 Only a Sith deals in absolutes, Inex. Be weary of the Empress whispering in your ear!

 

[Inexorable Username]

Its impossible to change an INTPs mind, only we do that, and invariably we will put forward a decent argument in the present but the good stuff still goes in and if in makes sense in our own context we will adopt.

Hah! I felt that. I get frustrated with people who try to change my mind, because they seem to think that by just being "really convincing", they're somehow going to sway my opinion, and when that doesn't work for them, they accuse me of being stubborn, or even...narrow-minded? It frustrates me because, in my mind, it's so unfair. I don't value being stubborn or narrow-minded, but I'm not going to change my mind just because someone is using persuasive rhetoric against me. People who are big into politics love to do this. On this front - I've even been accused of being cold-hearted. It seems ridiculous. Anyone who really knows me understands that I really value empathy and try very hard to actively practice compassion.

However, when someone does give me a well-reasoned argument, or factual information that contradicts my beliefs, I most certainly entertain it. A lot of times, it isn't actually enough to refute my initial argument, but I've had my mind changed in a matter of minutes by certain arguments that just made me say - you know, you're absolutely right. I don't get upset by that either...actually, it makes me sort of happy. Sometimes I feel like I'm a schizophrenic person in an echo chamber. Just people bombarding me with emotional arguments and repeating, or repeating and twisting, things that I've said. It starts to make me feel like I'm not even a human. When someone is able to refute my argument, I get a weird sense of satisfaction, because I feel like that's my chance to demonstrate my flexible mentality and my willingness to correct wrong beliefs.

You will see me write in many different styles, depending on the context and how much shock or awe, intimacy or generic information I wish to convey in different posts, of if I think people need a bit of a shakeup, but there will always be a little of the inner me in there as I have very deep morals and beliefs and I am driven to be a good person who is valuable to others.

Sometimes I'll get into emotional rhetoric. It's especially easy to do accidentally when I'm trying to make a case as to why men should try harder to empathize and relate to women - because it's something I care about, and I know my audience doesn't generally respect compassion. So I often get overly objectified, or try to phrase my arguments in a way that appeals to men.

We should both knock it off. It's hard - but persuading someone with manipulative emotional techniques is a poor way of being an honest, genuine person, who is committed to discovering the real truths of the world. I view it as disingenuous to use rhetoric, or fallacies, or edits in one's lingo and demeanor, to persuade others of a rational argument. It's why I can't respect politicians/presidents, and I don't trust any of them. Most of them are using emotionally aggressive behaviors to influence the opinions of their audience - and its immoral. Easy to do, for sure, but not ethical. A person with the knowledge and education to understand the argument has a responsibility to present it accurately, and without bias. It's also why I have a fairly high bar for scientists, and I can get easily contemptuous of a scientist who is failing to live up to my expectations that they present themselves and their argument in an objective, scientific, and unbiased fashion. Doctors as well. Lawyers. These people are educated and their abilities demand a certain sense of professional responsibility and accuracy....
I forgot what point I was making. If you scroll up - it's probably somewhere up there. Lol. Sorry. I have too many responses to get through to edit myself at the moment.

Oh, one important thing, I am saying 'we' a lot. I'm sorry if that is offensive or making you uncomfortable, I'm just trying to save time having to play snap and verify things that I assume are generic INTP traits. I'm just trying to get the basics out the way so we can be more abstract and use verified assumed knowledge.

I think you'll find that I'm pretty much impossible to offend. I DO get offended when people suggest that my sex is stupid or that we're liars or slaves to our emotions...but even that, I work very hard to squash, and if I can't - I try to leave and come back.

It makes no sense to be offended, and it's usually not an accurate reaction. Take for instance, this scenario. I work in media marketing and I work remotely. There've been times I've encountered female colleagues who tell me, after looking at my portfolios and my reviews, that it's great that I'm a strong, independent female, and I should keep it up. That bothers me....because it means that someone has looked at all my hard work and the art and projects that I take particular pride in, and said that the fact that I'm a female means more to them than how hard I've worked to be who I am. It upsets me, because I'd like to think in my mind that people treat me like a person - not a "female". I don't want the fact that I'm a female being the first thing that people think about. It alienates me, and it makes me self-conscious in the way that I feel like people might be changing the way they talk to me or how seriously they take me, because of my sex. Paranoia like that can make a person fall into the trap of sexism - something that's easy to fall into. I don't like sexism, I don't want to be sexist, and I try really hard to avoid thoughts or feelings that might lead me down that path. So when I get "surprised" by someone calling me out for being a female, when I'm trying to conduct myself professionally....well it's annoying. You've now instigated feelings and thoughts that I really don't want to entertain. Especially when I'm working. Let alone...the fact that I've chosen to be independent - it can be a touchy subject for me. It's a red flag for people to assume that I'm an irrational "femi-nazi" as they refer to it. It causes people to invalidate what I say and ignore my opinions, because they read into me an intent which does not exist. People just can't seem to accept that I don't fit neatly into their boxes.

Long story short, it didn't take me long not to be bothered by that. The first time, it caught me off guard, and when something new like that happens, I can't always control how I feel because I haven't gone through the analytical process yet to refute the feelings that surface unexpectedly. The second time, I was prepared for it, and I'm proud to say I even found it a bit funny. (I've been working on having a sense of humor for quite some time now).

Whenever things annoy me, I actively make the effort to empathize. Very few people mean to be offensive, and if they do mean to be offensive, there's usually hurt feelings behind the words. When I empathize with what people are going through, it's easy to brush off anything mildly offensive or antagonistic they may have said.

It all feeds into my deep-seeded desire to be resilient, I think. Sometimes, I wonder if I don't value resilience a little too much.

I just want you to understand that you are not alone, or that no one can understand how difficult these things are to manage. The way they manifest for you will be unique but there are reasons why. I want to help you understand the why so you can build strategies that work for you. Thats all, I will stop if you prefer.

No, I like talking to you! You're fun. I especially like that you actually take the time to read what I have to say, think about it, and really respond attentively. Most people skim, understandably.

You're free to try and work on me if it entertains you. Maybe I'll learn something. It's flattering, anyways, to be the subject of someone else's psychological scrutiny. I don't usually take the spotlight. As I said - I'm generally the therapist. It's like my back rubs. I give a lot of them. Off-hand, I can remember receiving two. (As far as back rubs go. Boyfriends give terrible back rubs. Weak hands - for some reason. Or laziness. Lol.)

Feeling like someone is actually interested in the way I work or the way I think - it's sort of flattering. Probably, if everyone was jumping on me and insisting I have issues, it would get a little overbearing and I'd feel insecure about it - but it's uncommon, so it's a novelty. You can probably tell I don't share my feelings often. Lol.

Mostly, I just don't feel the need to. People often have a habit of inferring sadness, too, where there isn't any. Or loneliness, where there isn't any. I just don't feel the way others feel. I'm a very...strange person. I know a lot of people say that, and I thought for a while I was just guilty of that "I deeply want to be unique so I'll delude myself into thinking I am", mindset - so I discounted my feelings that I'm a weird, strange person, and I told myself everyone feels that way about themselves...but that was rhetoric, really. The evidence is there. I'm weird. No two ways about it! It's okay though...because I see it as a ticket to freedom. If I'm already weird, and I've been that way all my life, there's no pressure to try to fit in. If that was going to work, it most likely would have worked by now. So now, I can just be whoever it is that I am - and that new outlook has given me a lot of happiness!

Just a disclaimer. I don't want you to feel disappointed. It's very likely that your advice won't really apply to me, and I'll probably tell you that - because I'm still not that great at refraining from such things. Almost all generic life advice I've been given hasn't suited me - but you seem to have advice that probably pertains to me better. At least, you seem to get things about the MBTI that I don't know about, and which seem to suit me. So your advice could be highly useful. Just don't be offended if I disagree...Consider - the choice to be independent has been a long time coming. It's not like I woke up one day and I was just like "Damn, I give up!". I've had plenty of dates, and in my mind, plenty of data, to carefully analyze my situation and come up with a conclusion that I think is appropriate...so if someone comes in and tells me "You should date! Otherwise, you'll end up old and lonely" - in my mind I think - I already considered that possibility. What's your next supporting argument?

That's sort of the way I think. I'm eager to be corrected, but I just won't change my opinions unless I honestly believe they've been debunked. I'll entertain half-hearted arguments or even things which seem to not apply to me - and I'll give it some thought power and a decent clip of time, just to be sure there isn't some grains of truth in there...but that usually happens after the discussion has taken place, and it takes me a while to determine whether or not what someone said has enough weight behind it to influence my views. Often, I have to take what people have said, and make my own arguments in favor of their point because they posed their thoughts poorly...or more like - the limits of human communication, attention, etc. are just such that the concept was too large to express in its entirety, so I need to take up the mantle and flesh out their argument in my mind, for myself, before I can determine whether it is a useful one.

Uhm...So don't be offended by me, in a nutshell. I can be "stubborn", "aggressive", "cold", "arrogant", and apparently pretty offensive. XD

 

[Inexorable Username]

So my own ambivalence I take as a sign I shouldn't engage, because I wouldn't be a good partner.

Same here. I worry about being a bad girlfriend, and I don't want to let people down. I was even mildly curious about lesbian sex for a while after listening to this Youtuber talk about how great women are in the bed - but when I thought about it, I realized it was just a selfish manifestation of the desire to feel really important to someone, connected to someone, and potentially even sexually fulfilled. At the end of the day, I can't see myself in a long term, loving partnership with a woman - I can't even see myself enjoying kissing a woman...and what's really shitty, is that I don't know if I can see myself respecting a woman as a sexual partner, because when people come to me with their emotional problems in life, I see them as people I need to help and take care of, but that kind of dependence isn't something I value in myself, so I think I would find it hard to respect someone as my equal if they are an emotionally dependent person. Realizing that...it honestly made me feel pretty crappy. What a terrible way to be. I hate that I have that in me. That being said, of course, I don't think that my lack of a sense of equality for a woman would cause me to invalidate her feelings, think of her as inferior, not listen to her opinions, or otherwise treat her the way I've sort of been treated by the men who didn't respect me. I value life in general, and people, and kids and animals...and I think that usefulness takes all sorts of forms, and that its arrogant to assume that your one, subjective definition of the world, is so perfect that you can't be wrong. I generally work on the assumption that I am always wrong to some degree - I just don't know how wrong I am yet. So yeah...I wouldn't think of a woman partner as less intelligent or less able than me. However, if someone doesn't have certain qualities...like the desire to work on solutions to their problems, and better themselves....I see those people as being less mature than me, and because I want to be mature, I don't really see them as my equals in that regard. And unfortunately, those are the kinds of women I seem to attract. Women that think they're weak, and need help. My help. Women who are dependent, and not self-sufficient.

Don't get the wrong idea - I'm totally happy to listen to someone talk about their feelings and just vent, and express themselves. I feel privileged being the person they go to. So if a girl wants to bitch about her boyfriend, I'm all ears, and I know better than to try to fix her issues at this point....but when someone has some serious issues in their life, and they are satisfied to be a victim of circumstance...that's just something I can't fathom. That's like you never grew up.

If I was a lesbian - I'd break a lot of hearts and do a lot of damage. Isn't that ironic...since as a woman dating men, I've had my heart broken quite a lot, and sustained a lot of damage. Lol. Sometimes I just get the feeling...and I think this is my inner, stifled feminist coming out or something...that if you want to be respected and not be hurt, you basically have to act like a man. It makes sense though. Weakness in women has been encouraged for so long...it's frustrating. Some women I just want to take by the shoulders and shake and say "Snap out of it. Have a little backbone. You don't have to be a doormat."
But maybe that's my own frustration with myself, for the times that I've been weak, and I've been a doormat...

Wow I'm getting so off track. Sorry!

but tbh I've spent years of my life helping men get out of horribly toxic or abusive relationships, retain access to their children, and recover their sense of self-determination.

That's frankly incredible. I've only come across one abused man before...and I wasn't able to help him. It actually still makes me so sad to this day. Men can be pretty shitty, really. Men can especially be pretty predatory...and that's something I think most decent guys will just never understand because they haven't been on the receiving end of that, and they haven't listened to all of the women who have been...well. Messed with, I guess. I don't think it's something we can ever expect men to "get".

But I will say this. Nothing terrifies me more than an abusive woman. I had a neighbor like that. It's happened to me once before where I've looked into someone's eyes and just had a realization like "That person is evil". The first time it was a man, and he ended up trying to kill somebody. It was sort of traumatizing. The second time though - it was that woman - and I was infinitely more afraid of her than I was of that man. In the first situation, I just felt like - here's a crazy guy, and I don't know what he might do. He could attack somebody. Maybe, he could even kill somebody...or rape somebody. This guy's not right.
I looked into her eyes and I thought....this woman would willingly ruin someones entire life. She could tie a person down and torture them, and then keep doing it, because she has the rest of the world wrapped around her pinky. This woman would...like...cut someone's penis off and say it was their fault.

I know I'm getting very weird here, right now, but that has been my experience with encountering two incredibly crazy people...and like I said - the woman scared me the most. It's weird to think that, despite how aggressive and "evil" men can be, the person who has scared me most in my life was a woman. After her, I never again underestimated the potential of women to be "evil". I did end up hearing anecdotes about one other woman like this. She scared me too.

And the thing is...women like that - they hate me. Manipulative women hate me, at least. My neighbor - she hated me. There was a girl I was best friends with in high school who was highly manipulative - she ended up hating me. And this woman who I've heard anecdotes of, and never even met, she hated me without even knowing me. Lol.

You're brave to open yourself up to be a target like that by helping men who are abused. When push came to shove, I couldn't do it. I didn't want to end up dead in my bed because someone had spiked my water bottle with belladonna at the community gym.

it's historically the only way I get close to people.

That's true for me too. That's how I get close to women...being a therapist. I've never really been their friend though - not really.

People have always just spilt their guts to me or I've seen a problem and, fuck, I have to try to fix it.

Same here. I like to try to help people, and I like having solutions. When I have problems in my own life, I find that the only way to move passed them is to have an idea on what to do next. That's what I either try to help people find, or else, help them realize their potential to find it.

When they needed help I was there and I was able to, not fix things, but help them find strength for themselves. I did good right? I didn't fail. But this means the nature of these relationships is changing, it's not client/therapist anymore. This should be good right? They even see sometimes, when I'm sloppy. That I'm not quite alright and try to reciprocate and help, but I just can't do that.

I think I know what you mean. It feels weird for me to get help from others...and in the few instances I've tried, it just hasn't really helped me. I feel like when I do have problems I can't seem to work out...it seems like nobody else can work them out either. So, I have tried giving my female "friends" the opportunity to switch roles with me...but it just sort of falls flat. I think one of my issues is that I'm just never really looking for someone to commiserate with me. It doesn't make me feel better. When people tell me things like "Wow, that really sucks. You must be so upset." I'm like...well - I am, but...that's obvious isn't it? Do you have anything else for me?
I get that's what other women often need though, and I've used that approach to help other women feel validated and better able to cope with their emotional situation. But for me personally...its like...I guess I just see that as useless. If I need to feel good, I'll drink wine, cuddle my cat, play a game, take a walk, visit myself under the blankets - there's plenty of things I can do that can make me feel better and snap me out of an emotional state. If I were to ask for help, it's because there's information I'm missing, and I need someone to look at me from the outside in and tell me where I'm going wrong. Women...I think a lot of them would be very good at that...they just often don't seem to have the confidence. Which upsets me. I wish women had more confidence.

I'm just that empty now. I have no more bandwidth, no more compassion to expend to people don't already know.

I sometimes get like that. I can especially get like that, I think, when I'm very, very depressed. This feeling is probably a bit different, but related - after this last breakup I had, there was this period of time where I just sort of....like...died inside. I can't really express the feeling more accurately than that. It was as if someone took the soul out of me and I just didn't care anymore. Utter apathy. It was somewhat empowering, even, because I felt like nothing mattered to me anymore. I was at the height of resilience - impossible to damage. Completely unphased by the struggles in life because I felt like - if I can get through that, nothing else will ever be as bad. Nothing. But at the same time - I felt like I was less than human. Even more of an alien than ever before, and worse still, completely unbothered by that fact. Just happy to be a different species, and unconcerned with the petty problems other people bitch about. I might have even found some of them to be a bit funny...which is...kind of twisted, really. But I found myself with a bit of a bitter streak of comedy to me. Like - "Oh, you think that's bad? Ohhh...just you wait. Lol".
It wasn't really who I wanted to be, but it wasn't something I could really help either. How can you feel feelings when the feelings are gone?

I've realized now that my empathy, and my compassion...it's not really as much of an intrinsic part of my person as I thought it was. It can leave, and it will leave, if I determine that it impedes my resilience or my progress as a person. I think that's why I've spent so much time philosophizing about the role empathy and compassion plays in the lives of people. If I don't value it, I can easily dispense with it...and that kind of bothers me.

So I don't know that my feelings are entirely like yours. Maybe I'm a person that has more of a potential to be a bad person than you do. But I will also go through spells where I just feel spent - like I have nothing left to give...and peoples problems just irritate me more than anything. When it does come to family and such, though, I have a very strong sense of loyalty, so even then I can usually drag myself up and do something about someone's distress. It's exhausting though. Sometimes, I might even start to feel just a wee bit resentful if I feel like people take it for granted.

Since you have expressed desire to learn more about me, I assume it's cool? Apologies if not. It is your blog.

It's so much more than cool. I really feel like I relate to you...and that's a strange experience for me. It feels nice. It makes me feel like I'm not the only female like me. Maybe females like me have just come to the same conclusion I've come to many times in the past...which is just that - hey, people don't respect my opinion, and they just judge me for it - so the solution is just to not voice my opinion. If I want to be happy, I'm just not allowed to speak.
Obviously, that's not a very productive mindset, and I do get over it...but sometimes, that's how frustrated I can get - especially in my relationships with people. I just end up feeling sometimes like I'm not allowed to have an opinion, and I'm just expected to not be myself and not think for myself, and be someone's...I don't know...someones dog or something. Basically. Or their child. It upsets me.
I'm not saying that's you...but I'm saying, the fact that you can relate to a lot of my struggles - it suggests to me like maybe there's more people out there, like me, than I know - and maybe there's a reason I haven't heard from them. I seriously doubt, for instance, that either of us would run up to the other and pour their heart out. Lol.

I feel really touched that you wrote this to me....I feel especially touched that you actually read what I was writing to someone else. That's a lot of effort to go through when you're not tagged.

I do feel sort of confused though. You're shaking my view of the world. I didn't expect to find a female I could relate to about...really much of anything. I'm not sure how to feel about it. Touched is definitely one of the feelings. The others are still the Mario blocks with the question marks. I will have to process.

Thanks for sharing. I hope you share more in the future. I would love to learn more about where we're similar, and where we're different.

 

[darque]

Thank you Inex,
You are a well balanced and cohesive person; that takes a lot of work well done.

I was a bit manic yesterday as I had a migraine developing... dehydration is usually the cause as I have a poor thirst reflex. Something I would like to poll people here for as I suspect it is another shared issue. So apologies for.... anything that I am too embarrassed to reread and check if I could have said it better.

I'm also a little dark at the moment as I am currently unemployed, not that that is a problem in itself, as I have plenty of money, the market is buoyant, and I am highly skilled, so unfortunately I will get sucked back into the rat-race and loose all this free time to chat to you lovely people soon enough.

The issue being that my last job was a contract as a project engineer for a new automated laboratory, which is my thing. However, my contract was not reviewed. Although I wrote all the contract documentation and reviewed all the tenders so it was ready for award and execution by the contractor, all the bloody hard work of fixing everyones poor planning was corrected and it was ready to fly like an eagle. I suspect because of our usual issues with relationships that I failed to manage.

I spotted the naivety of my ESFP (the entertainer) client representative and built an excellent relationship with him, but he had already relinquished ⅓ of his budget based on promises of an inexperienced contractor who had clearly omitted costs in their proposal before I was on the scene so there was never going to be enough money.

To explain why he did this I need to discuss the trickster. The name given to the second last shadow function in our personality. It is the inverse of the Child which is the third...

ok better write these out for you:

The INTP ego is TiNe - SiFe
Ti - Hero - our strongest function and what we are recognised for
Ne - Parent - this is slightly pessimistic, I like to think of it as a quality role
Si - Child - this function presents when we play. INTP like nostalgia and comfort
Fe - Inferior - this is our fear response, secretly afraid of others opinions

Then our shadow which is the remaining 4 functions, inverted. These are all pessimistic but we can make good use of them in a positive way if we get skilled.

ENTJ - TeNe - SeFi
Te - Nemesis - this apposes our hero, we can use it well but it is bloody fickle
Ni - Critic - can get out of control, critical of us and others and makes us indecisive
Se - Trickster - we think we have it but we don't. Zip awareness of physical reality
Fi - Demon - our meltdown, all else fails function. We self sacrifice but it is really about renewal. As in, we have tried all other options and nothing has worked, so light the match and walk away.

The classic, INTP, all about me, 3 year old tantrum and contempt at its very best. Relationships, job, life whatever. I can lock myself in this room for days until you are sick with worry about me. Hah! that will teach you... you know what I mean, don't say you don't, I can see you smiling with evil glee at the thought.

Ok, so trickster can be considered as the foolish child as the shadow sits behind the ego. Nemesis is the anti-hero, Critic is the critical parent, Demon is our fears manifest. They are fundamentally a inverse and provide perspective and objectivity for us.

The Trickster is both naive and oblivious. As ours is extroverted sensing Se it is the reason we are comfortable with isolation, others find us difficult to connect with and we are prone to silly mistakes. We also see it as a strength, ie. impartial and resilient. It is a trap and a weakness, don't be fooled.

You are very lucky to have a well functioning ENTJ father Inex as it gives you a healthy role model for how to use your shadow functions effectively. Se is the only way we can manipulate the world around us so we obviously use it but it is peripheral so we have to do so consciously.

I have a lot of admiration for Dad’s understanding of the economy, the stock market, and how to make money. He’s very good at it. He values money, but we’re a very down to earth family. We don’t spend it much.

Yes, extroverted thinking is facts in the world: times dates, addresses; extroverted sensation is manipulating these objects. Se users also want to give us good experiences, hence dragging you out, social interactions etc. Down to earth, absolutely.

It’s his extroversion and his money sense that I find so different. He is constantly trying to get mom and I to go to all his club things and get togethers, because, I think, he enjoys the “family thing”. It’s like we’re part of his outfit.

Yes, Se wants to give Si good experiences. You are a part of him. Relationships are not ethereal but visceral.

“And THIS is my DAUGHTER!”

Calling you out of your complacent Si state, bringing you into the world. He is also proud as punch of you. Tell him, way to go Dad from me. The stereo type of the computer game playing nerd is probably more of a male stereotype. I think you have given me the classic female variant. Onesies and a bun on intpforum.com

Not that I am in anyway picking on you. It is late morning for me and I should be studiously applying for jobs but I am sitting here in my PJ's and ugg boots, eating comfort food with what could only be described as sex hair, having a discontinuous conversation with someone on the other side of the planet that I don't really know; but happy as a pig in shit.

We are isolated and disconnected and we enjoy the peace of being that way but we are also missing out, don't deny it, just accept that it is a sacrifice we consciously make and when you occasionally feel lonely and miserable, remember why and don't blame others for being mean to you. You are unreachable and they don't understand or know how to approach you so they use a generic archetype based on what they see.

I just can’t see the logic in fashion. I can’t see why it matters.

Fashion is not logic it is presentation in the world. It means nothing to you because of Se trickster. I'm no different and I don't care either, but I hate being judged.

once every three weeks, I stage a mad, frantic cleanathon where I stay up until 4 in the morning cleaning all of my clothes in desperation because there’s nothing clean left to wear.

Then you are exhausted the next day and have to just chill to recover wasting good daylight hours. I do that at least once a week, again managing our environment.

Mom is no better. I at least do what I can to try to look normal. She brings her headphones and listens to storybooks or plays Pokemon go XD

Mum has Fe trickster, difficulty in reading social norms, values in others. I bet you take the big picture ethical standpoint and she maintains the morality and value of the individual in discussions about global issues.

Allie, is an INFJ

I don’t think I would have seen the flaws in myself that I’ve seen. She’s also broadened my mind when it comes to things that are spiritual or mystical.

Te trickster. It allows her to disconnect from some of the concreteness of life and better able to wrestle with topics of a spiritual nature. Never let her be the navigator, help her with money etc so she does not have regrets later.

but I am wayyyy of topic. The reason I raised this was because my client had Ti trickster... I have to say it because it is funny from our perspective but not strictly true... so he is dumb as a box of hammers. Zero logic, zip, not a glimmer, nothing. Thank you God for blessing me to be as blind as a bat and to have the capability to hang out dry washing (which I have done by the way).

ESFPs are great sponges for knowledge and can be very bright but they need to read and surround themselves with smart people as they absorb everything we tell them and they replay it like a recording. Not like us who pick apart everything we are told and reassemble it again, nothing like it was before; completely frustrating to others.

As such, I am the worst employee in the world, I mean that literally. Not only do I not follow my bosses instructions, I infect everything I touch and reality itself is warped around me as I expose every weakness and poor logic, rally people around previously unimagined goals, redefine peoples attitudes and start accurately predicting where and how things will go wrong, and they do.

All while apologising profusely for the disruption, working late nights to give that little bit more out of Fe guilt and fear, and weighing up everything for importance. I am accused of perfectionism but nothing could be further from the truth, don't get me wrong, I am keenly aware of what it is, but I work tirelessly to consider the consequence of everything, so I don't become a burden.

I'm also accused of making things more complicated than they are. But again this is not true. I overlook lots of issues and only focus on that which people are complaining about and I can logically see why and how to fix it. Its just that I cannot fix the watch without taking the back off and there is a lot of bits in there, I need to lay them out in an orderly fashion or I will never get it back together again.

When I was younger I would rush and try to do things the way others seemed to but I would muck it up and they would yell at me which made me miserable so fuck you, I do it this way, wait or fix it yourself. While you decide I'll just go and warp time and space over here lol. I generally get the no, no, no just please try to be as quick as possible.

So back to try and finish the story.
Ok, dumb arsed client rep, lost ⅓ of his budget. I worked hard and easily justified his existing scope and protected his reputation, but his senior manager was the alpha male type, bloody minded, concrete and unable to see past the tip of his nose.

I locked horns with him right from day 1 and he got an idea in his head about me in one of those moments we have discussed and I could never get him to shake it even though there was no evidence and a miss communication issue. To make it worse my Project Manager was all smiles and perfume while sliding the knife into my back, leveraging Alphas personal dislike of me to extend his own agenda. Didn't see it coming, trust me men can be as manipulative as women.

However, I don't hold grudges its just the way we roll. Not everything can be fixed and if people do not expose their agenda we cannot account for it in our planning. I did well, built some good relationships and performed some exceptional time warping. Good luck delivering my scope of works people, its as complicated as hell as I wrote it for me to deliver not you, lol.

So, finally at the reason for this post. I am a little darque and cynical at the moment the fallout has meant I cannot make maintenance payments for my ex-wife and she has not used the past 7 years since she left me for an abusive relationship with a pathologically jealous, speed using man wisely. So continues to make my life and the kids a hell of uncertainty and recoil from poor choice. So there maybe also be a little tinge of misogynistic undercurrent in my writing too.

I say all this because one could get eaten by a pack of hungry Ti in this place so this is my future insurance policy if I create too much time space warping here. I'm sorry, I'm doing my best to keep my snakes in the basket but there is a couple of nasty cobras in there at the moment.

Saying that, there appears to be such civility here it's unnerving. We are good like that we have years of experience in containing our contempt for poor thinking people that it is as natural as breathing just to remain quiet and store it away till later.

Got there! and I'm not wearing my jarmies and sex hair past lunchtime... by much. Way to go INTP you hard arsed worker you. What do you mean procrastinate! this shit is important.

 

[Inexorable Username]

remember why and don't blame others for being mean to you. You are unreachable and they don't understand or know how to approach you so they use a generic archetype based on what they see.

This is my crux. ;_; Everybody judges me based on some kind of mold they have....and I just don't fit those molds. I'm not even proud of it. I wish I knew what it meant to be normal....I just can't seem to relate.

Then you are exhausted the next day and have to just chill to recover wasting good daylight hours. I do that at least once a week, again managing our environment.

XD This is so me

I bet you take the big picture ethical standpoint and she maintains the morality and value of the individual in discussions about global issues.

I don't know what you mean by that. She's kind of reserved about her opinions a lot of the time. She has this belief that people don't want to hear them.

Never let her be the navigator, help her with money etc so she does not have regrets later.

Allie is awesome with money. Much better than I am. She's not really the kind of person to make mistakes. She's very practical...but strangely, incredibly emotionally-driven. When Allie was younger, she was painfully shy. She was so shy that the family used to talk about her all of the time like she was a cripple. She overcame that and stepped out of her shell when she got a boyfriend. Now she's really mature and practical, and good at managing her feelings, even though she feels very, very intensely. She even feels physical pain extremely intensely. It's odd.

ESFPs are great sponges for knowledge and can be very bright but they need to read and surround themselves with smart people as they absorb everything we tell them and they replay it like a recording

I have a friend who I think is an ESFP - if I remember correctly! This is cool. Always looking to figure her out! She's so weird to me....like an alien to my alien. I love it.

working late nights to give that little bit more out of Fe guilt and fear

This is me as well! XD
I had a while where I would work all night and lock myself away, and it would make other people worry. So I had to learn to socialize a little more to balance it out.

yell at me which made me miserable so fuck

Same here. I get really miserable when I get yelled at. I can't take the heat, lol. I will literally go curl up in a ball and cry my pathetic heart out about what a failure I am and how I should have done better...it's bad. Very, very slowly, I've come to appreciate that sometimes, it's not all my fault. Sometimes, it's a bit someone else's fault too - and I need to remember that, because I will readily blame everything on myself and take full responsibility to the point that it becomes self annihilation. Sometimes, being yelled at can stick with me for years. I live in fear of it and I do everything I can to never be yelled at. -_- it's pathetic. I can be so childish. Sickening. Really disgusts me - seriously. I can be so weak.

senior manager was the alpha male type, bloody minded, concrete and unable to see past the tip of his nose.

A real "alpha male" or a fake one? I can't say that I've ever done business with a real "alpha male" - they generally seem to be pretty lazy and immature, to be honest. Or painfully narrow-minded. I've not met one that people would consider successful. They tend to be so full of themselves they think their body alone is gods gift to women - so why earn money?
Insofar as the ambitious, what I would call "fake alpha males" (although I do believe that our concept of alpha male is fake to begin with...so...) - yeah, those people are some of the most obnoxious people to work with. I recently got wind that one of my employers was one of those people, and I left. It was a good job too. I won't work with an asshole - end of story.

To make it worse my Project Manager was all smiles and perfume while sliding the knife into my back

I'm not surprised. She was a female, right? I've run into so many of these females. They often occupy management roles and they're some of the most spineless and manipulative people I've had the displeasure to encounter in my life. It's another thing that will make me leave a client. The presence of one of these females.

Good luck delivering my scope of works people, its as complicated as hell as I wrote it for me to deliver not you, lol.

This made me laugh out loud. I recently felt this way about a content strategy I drafted for this guy - who I found out fancied himself some kind of "alpha male" asshole. I sent him my work before I left, because I take pride in satisfying all of my clients, always - but in my heart of hearts, I knew he was never going to pull it off, and that made me happy in a twisted way. I wrote it for me. Not for him, or the people he hires.

So there maybe also be a little tinge of misogynistic undercurrent in my writing too.

It's okay. I won't judge. I've had my run ins with hating men before. I wasn't proud of it...was pretty ashamed, actually...but sometimes you can't help it, can you? If we're being honest with ourselves, our perspective of the opposite sex is heavily influenced by how we've been treated. When the experiences are more traumatizing, it's all the more difficult. Plus - there's not a lot of people...at least there wasn't, in my case, that are on hand to disabuse you of your sexism - even when you really want that. I'm glad I'm over that now, and I'm really proud of myself because my last bad relationship didn't bring that back. I've learned more about men and the struggles men face, and I can relate to men much better now. I understand it's really difficult to be a man in today's society, and I empathize with them and feel compassion for the things they struggle through. That keeps me from getting bitter and resentful, even though some people have mistreated me. Empathy is key. You need it to be a good person.

It takes time though, sometimes, I think, to empathize with someone who has been really destructive towards you. I think, maybe, sometimes, you can't do it. Maybe the best a person can do at times is just to wish the other person no harm. I learned that from Buddhism. The Buddhists believe you should empathize with everyone, but if you can't, at least try to wish the other no harm. Sometimes that's all you can manage. If the Dalai Lama believes that after what China did to Tibet, I suppose it should be good enough for me, too.

Saying that, there appears to be such civility here it's unnerving. We are good like that we have years of experience in containing our contempt for poor thinking people that it is as natural as breathing just to remain quiet and store it away till later.

I know. Sometimes I feel a little self-conscious about it actually....I feel like when I came here there were a few arguments and some male banter, but since I've been here, people have been strangely....polite. It's not something I see in predominantly male online communities. Sometimes I worry I'm at fault. Like - people are afraid to be rambunctious because I might get excessively wordy and empathy-ish on them. I hope that's not the case. I hope that people feel at liberty to be themselves....But that's probably just me, feeling awkward at infiltrating a bastion of men. I understand that men feel a bit different when a woman is present. I don't like to be the person who ruins the fun. My other issue though, is that I really do seem to click better with men then I do with women...so....yeah.

Got there! and I'm not wearing my jarmies and sex hair past lunchtime... by much. Way to go INTP you hard arsed worker you. What do you mean procrastinate! this shit is important.

Hah! Keep it up. Pretty soon, you'll be in good standing for me to hire you as my subconscious.

 

[Inexorable Username]

@darque Could you please explain the demon a bit more? I don't get that.

 

[darque]

Sorry Inex, but I have to divert a little as I tried to post a comment for AnimeKitty but I am hitting a 420 character limit, so I am just posting it here. Sorry to muscle in on your stream, I will probably need my own at some point.

 

[darque]

@Animekitty
Hi Kit, not exactly sure what you mean.

The ENTP is the shadow of the INTJ and vice versa. Everyone has and uses all eight of the functions but we have lowering skill levels the further they get away from our Primary function ie. Ni for the INTJ and Ne for the ENTP.

Hence the INTJ demon is Si as this is their least experienced function so when situation demands its use, we are still functioning in what Freud would call our Id. So the results can be explosive and destructive. The key word is demands we have some capacity but if we are in a stressful situation we are not very articulate.

So think of a fight with a loved one. As Si includes our memory of past experience, the INTJ will say things like 'you always do this' or 'I will never forgive you for saying that'. So it lacks maturity and catastrophises.

If you are meaning are two people, one INTJ and one ENTP are a good match? Theoretically they are perfect buddies because our extroverted functions are affiliative and therefore seek harmony through aligning with the world around us. The introverted functions are pragmatic and seek harmony through modifying the environment around us.

So each of the extroverted functions will lock and support their equivalent introverted function in the other person. Therefore the INTJ will get their way with Ni & Fi and the ENTP will get their way with Ti & Si. Of course the extroverted functions seek harmony in the environment not just with one individual so they assist the introverted functions in maturing and being more accepting of the bigger picture.

Hope that helps Kit. I'm working on getting back to basics with this stuff and putting some posts together offline to help. But feel free to ask specific questions as its helps me to focus on the things people are interested in.

 

[Black Rose]

@darque

I am confused about how the system works. For example, If Ni is the hero and Ne is the nemesis I would assume hero fights the nemesis. It would go beyond the shadow and actually reflect what they are called Child and Parent and so forth by position functions are placed.

 

[darque]

@ Animekitty
The naming is more a prompt of how we perceive a function. For example, as we use the Primary function the most we are confident in the results it gives. It makes us feel Heroic because it is reliable and provides predictable results.

Intuition for example, identifies possibilities and the introverted version seeks the best option from the available possibilities, with respect to ourselves. ie: what I want to do, what I intend, what I desire, what I’m going for, what’s my goal, what’s my path forward.

People who have this as their primary function are confident in their future destiny, what they desire and how to get there. From the perspective of other types it seems magical as we lack such fluent use of the skill. For example, my type. INTP has this function in the secondary shadow position the Critic.

INTPs constantly criticise themselves, or struggle to decide what they want. The reason is because we normally use the extroverted version of intuition to identify the objective possibilities around us. Because we can clearly see many possible options that we could choose and we like to think we are objective, therefore tend to devalue our own personal feelings in favour of the greater good, we find it difficult to decide when something is purely subjective such as what is the best future career for me.

This is why the shadow functions tend to have a negative spin as they are oppositional to what we would normally do with this function.

So the Nemesis is an inverted form of our primary or Hero function. So for you this is Extroverted intuition. Because it is extroverted it provides us with all the possible future outcomes, including an awareness of what other people want, their desire, what they are about to do.

Obviously this is in direct opposition of what you (or the Hero) wants to do hence the naming as the Nemesis because it opposes the function you would prefer to use. It is not a sub-personality but a label to help you remember and understand how this function interacts with the primary.

Because it is still intuition and something that you have good skills in you can use this function quite well but it tends to be difficult and somewhat unreliable because you will always tend to be biased towards your preferred function, introverted intuition. It is difficult to resolve your desires and the desires of others so there can be some internal wrestling when you need to mediate a suitable future path that is not purely subjective.

I hope that helps.

 

[darque]

@ Inexorable Username
The Demon is similar to how I explained the Hero / Nemesis for Kitty but as it is our weakest function it can be quite powerful in an uncontrolled way. I consider this similar, if not specifically, Freud's Id.

So our preferred Feeing function is Fe, ie. ethical based decision making, the value of the whole over the individual; as apposed to moral based decision making Fi, ie. the rights of the individual must be preserved. Of course we are not one dimensional and this is also something we value but if we must choose then save the greater number.

So, we seek the solution that is the most universal and can support the largest number of possible perceived outcomes. We like to be impartial because we feel ethically obligated to do so and the sacrifice of the needs of a single individual seems reasonable to us if we cannot identify a solution to a problem that can meet everyones needs, though this would be preferable. Ethics requires we are also considered in this choice and as we desire to be impartial, our sacrifice should come first.

This is also because our Child function (3rd slot) is Si which gives us the sense of honour and duty gained from past experience. As it is in the Child position, we tend to be quite idealistic in perspective because the function lacks maturity. As such, we can get upset with others who do not make as much commitment to these values as us. Often this perspective has not been discussed and it assumed to be shared, therefore it becomes an undisclosed covert contract. Types that have Si in the second (Parent) slot for example, are more responsible and mature about their application of duty.

However this does not mean we are at a deficit, as we are responsible about when we apply duty due to our Parent being extroverted intuition. Again this supports our desire to avoid others that we perceive as irresponsible, so the Parent function protects the Child functions naive sense of duty by avoiding those who do not deserve the honour of the Childs idealistic viewpoint. I think this is a very elegant and clever process.

The concept of Parent / Child in our psyche is well established in developmental psychology as it is an important part of a child developing secure independence. Effectively we embody our parents behaviours in order to self regulate and then build on these values as we mature into our individual selves.

Although as I said to Kitty above, the archetypical names are just useful as labels and not to get to focused on them as sub-personalities. The concept of a sub-personality is not that unusual, for when we consider the opinion of another person, say when buying a present for them, we effectively need to simulate their personality to perform a judgement of what they would or would not like.

We also project personality onto our pets and even inorganic entities like cars or boats, mountains and trees for example. With nomadic and tribal cultures, these objects take on the persona of dead relatives and are consulted for wisdom etc. so to consider things in this representation is a very natural concept for us.

I suspect this is a product of consciousness or some similar but very fundamental mechanism and related to the expression that "when your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." We have very sophisticated interface for interacting with other personalities so it would be reasonable to reuse this interface for internal regulation also.

We have taken a similar approach in computer programming with languages like smalltalk where everything is derived from a single base object. It makes for a very elegant solution that can be infinitely scaled as it maintains a consistent interface.

So back from the diversion.
Because Fi-Te are on an axis this causes us some problems as we must relinquish control of Ti, something we are loathe to do, so we can access our subjective feelings (Fi). Two opinions of subjective judgement cannot co-exist else we would be internally conflicted. Hence we resist the question of how we feel and would prefer to tell you how we think as this is much more relevant from our perspective.

As such we rarely use this function and it remains closer to the Id state, ie. undeveloped, impulsive and reactionary. Our fear that we will be judged by others will also play into the use of this function as we are not confident of the outcome and it can become quite explosive.

This will usually occur because the ideal expectations we have applied to ourselves through Si, have not been supported by others and their judgments have not acknowledging the reason for our actions, ie. we have taken someones expectations literally, or we are protecting someone we feel is being unreasonably judged.

As such, when our fears are manifested and another judges us with an extroverted value based judgement against Fe, we will immediately flick to our subjective feelings Fi and vitriol will flow as we feel released from out Si moral obligations to the individual; they have violated the covert contract we subconsciously made with them; nasty stuff.

Personally, I am aware of my current behaviour, but as the emotional release is maliciously enjoyable, I continue to gather other examples of past interactions and perceptions that demonstrate they are a bad person and I was ethical, and raise these also, regardless if they are relevant, as this is a moral attack against their character, not a logical evaluation of their actions. The consequences can be devastating and bring shame and guilt for our immaturity.

So to sum up the INTP Demon Fi. It is subjective moral judgement on self and others. As it is an introverted judging function, it replaces the role performed by Ti. The fact that it is immature compared to Ti, makes this an irresponsible choice which clashes with our idealistic Si sense of duty so we avoid its use.

However, if Fe identifies that ethically someone else has failed to live up to the ideals we have defined in an unexpressed covert agreement we have made with them, the immaturity of this function can be released through Te using facts and examples of their failures to support that they are morally corrupt. It can also be self destructive if we identify our own moral corruption.

Although it sounds all bad, it is also the re-birthing function from the perspective that we are inclined to tolerate more than is reasonable and the triggering of Fi Demon can be useful in breaking our tolerance, zeroing out a bad relationship, and allowing us to start again based on the awareness we have gathered from the overall experience.

 

[Inexorable Username]

This is what it feels like to been trying to be social at a party

 

[peoplesuck]

This is what it feels like to been trying to be social at a party

It's impossible to be natural if you are studying yourself, rather than participating. You cant do both. You cant consciously filter and choose reactions, and be natural.
You must risk being rejected or annoying.
If there is any area that I have qualifications to speak, trust me, truuuuust me, this is it.
You must take your focus from yourself, to the other people. You are too self conscious.
how to fix this......probably different for everyone
Its not just focus on them, because ..duh. you have to learn to be confident, in yourself, in your ability to be liked.

You have the idea that you must be X to be likable, as soon as you realize inex is X, you can succeed.

sincerely, dr mandudebro

 

[Inexorable Username]

You must take your focus from yourself, to the other people. You are too self conscious.

See...I think I do that though, but...I don't know? Maybe I don't. I don't actually think much about controlling how I behave or what I say - because I value being transparent and honest. I try not to be rude though, or unkind, or make other people feel uncomfortable.

But I think in a weird way, the focus is still very much on myself. So in that way - you're absolutely right. I would definitely say I'm highly self-aware of myself in the moment. I know, for instance, when I'm standing out, or being stared at, or whatever. I don't know how to lose myself in the world of someone else because, I think, I don't really know how they're thinking. I usually pick up on how they're feeling, but I don't necessarily know the thoughts that are going through another person's head. So it's hard for me to imagine what their mental experience is at the moment.

I think that's why people can tend to catch me so off guard.

And I do think that I can pick up on emotions but I often fail to pick up on social cues. I don't really study people when I socialize - or try to figure them out. I don't think I check, for instance, whether someone is bored or uncomfortable. However, if they feel angry, I can pick up on that emotion very quickly, and sometimes, I pick up on things I think people didn't mean to share.

That's just off the top of my head. I could be wrong, or missing things. But when you said I'm too self-conscious - as in, concentrated on oneself - that made sense to me. But as far as far as focusing on myself from the standpoint of analyzing how I should act or what not - I don't really do much of that. I usually do that when I'm alone again...and then I just...regret stuff. Lol!

I think you have a good point here. I'll have to think on it.

You have the idea that you must be X to be likable, as soon as you realize inex is X, you can succeed.

I mean, I've succeeded a lot more in later life now that I've accepted certain things about myself.

But I don't really think I have anything to offer people in the "being likable" department. I don't know that I'm a very likable person. I don't think I'm an unlikable person - because I'm not rude, or mean...but I'm like...either neutral, maybe, or annoying. I've gotten better at not being annoying though. I just avoid pursuing topics I'm passionate about...but then I become very boring to talk to. So I don't know. The things I would like to talk about and the things other people would like to talk about just don't align.

It's the same with doing things with people. People just don't generally like to do the things I'm interested in doing, and visa-versa.

 

[Marbles]

That's rich. A scientist in hyena's clothing; definitely how I feel in public.

 

[Inexorable Username]

INEX'S SHRINE OF ENVIRONMENTAL TRIGGERS
and other self-discipline experiments


So on the Self-Discipline thread, it was suggested to me that I read the book "Atomic Habits". To which I flatly refused - because I don't read. I listen. But lucky for me - there's a free screen-reader version available on YT! Yay! Listening to screen readers is something I'm used to because it's part of how I research certain work things while still maintaining a facsimile of a normal life...anyways.

This book is crazy awesome! I love it, because it follows my philosophy regarding self-discipline (which is, figure out how to not be self-disciplined while achieving the same results, because willpower is something I suck at...) - but it does so with empirical evidence in the form of anecdotes, scientific/pseudo-math explanations, and systematic descriptions. This book was made for Inex's people (brain, body, and self alter-egos. We are a people of 3.)

I feel so motivated, I felt like sharing the journey with you all - because what I'm going to do here is test techniques, evaluate results, and report on what works and what doesn't. This whole...social thing - of talking to you people - I've found it to be both therapeutic and motivational. I feel like this socialization can be a useful tool in my arsenal when it comes to transforming my life - because I need big changes. I need to get this non-profit off the ground. I've got to stop fucking off. And also, I need to learn to be a presentable person and get over my aversion to that - because like it or not, the possibility that I might end up being some kind of unwilling poster child in some kind of commercial, during my quest to see this through, is mid to high, and I'm not the kind of girl who likes being in the spotlight. The eyes....the eyes and the brains...fixated in my direction....no...save me. (This is weird, because I'm not a shy or reserved person, either, but I don't like being the center of attention). I certainly don't like being a leader, in particular, but that is also something I probably have to get over because this project is a multi-person thing, and I'm the person who started it and is going to be overseeing it...so...yeah. Increase sociability, increase presentability, and most importantly, project-wise. Get it done Inex. Get your fucking act together. (Yes m'am! Team cheer!)

Well - I thought some of you might be interested in my experiments and my thoughts on them. It might provide some background that fits into the context of your own personal research. See what you think!

-------------------------
Changes Yesterday
-------------------------

Yesterday, I made a list - as I often do, but as I often do - I made this list late in the day and made it something I couldn't possibly complete due to lack of time, instigating me to feel like I should caffeinated and stay up late - a habit I've been breaking. As this habit inevitably always throws me out of whack when it comes to being routine-orientated, and one of my major goals right now is to develop more consistent routines.

Proud of myself yesterday for making the decision to value my end-goal of being a routine-orientated person, and place that importance over the goal of getting things done immediately. However, I'm also proud of the fact that I when I consciously made that decision, I also consciously decided that if I wanted to be a person like that, and have that kind of mentality, then I can't feel anxious, stressed, or worried about the items remaining on the list. That negative association would hold me back from being consistently routine-orientated. So after I made the decision that enough had been done for the day, and it was time to unwind making a proper dinner (instead of packaged food or fast food), and chill with the pets, I actually managed to reign myself in from an emotional standpoint with a few deep breaths and mediative-like mindfulness. And I stopped being anxious.

I'm actually just fucking shocked that worked. I really thought, previously, that those emotional "side effects" were really something I couldn't do much about, and I just had to ignore them.

Last night was such a happy, peaceful night. I watched a nature series that cracked me up. Laughed hysterically. The pets and I had fun. My kitty got all snarly over the mussel I gave him - it was kind of cute. (Although he shouldn't be so sassy). Dinner was very satisfying. I didn't mind the clean up - I had the time. It was easy to fall asleep last night - and shockingly, I stayed asleep quite well, actually. I woke up this morning a little late, believe it or not (something rare for me), and I still felt like I was in a great mood. After I got out of bed, I got a lot of energy too. Watched a little more of the show - which cracked me up - and started this day in excellent humor!

Lessons Learned:

I learned that I was actually much more anxious about my "things to do" than I consciously realized. I didn't know that it was so intense, until that emotion was lifted.
I learned that making the habit to make a conscious decision to "put away" my to do list in my mind, and tell myself "we're done for the day" and "its time to relax and have fun" actually impacts me to a great degree from an emotional standpoint. (I'm a remote worker, so that might be part of it. I never "come home from work")
I learned that completing this important mental step might actually have benefits in increasing my sense of humor (something I've been working at for about a year or maybe more), helping me to fall asleep faster, helping me to stay asleep longer, and helping me to have more energy and a better attitude the following day. Subsequent applications of this habit will reveal whether this is the case.

New Habit:

To-Do lists need to have a "time deadline". I'll set a timer in my phone to go off each day to signify when the list should be "done". I'll also set a gentle "chime reminder" to go off an hour early, so I'm aware when my day is drawing to a close. I expect "closing" rituals to develop around this reminder.
The "time deadline" will have a label as follows: Commence Night Hamster Mode. I will engage in a thought process designed to mentally "let go" of the day's tasks - completed, or not. I will mentally review the day's progress, and what worked, and what didn't. 5 minutes later, there will be another chime reminder to tell me that I can stop thinking about activating the night hamster.

Goals this habit supports:

Become a more routine-orientated person, better sleep, better health, better attitude, better adherence to natural day-night cycles, healthy eating, spending time with pets, adapting to a schedule other humans can relate to.

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Today's Experiment
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Today, after listening to a section of the audiobook, I found myself sitting on the couch after a bit of cleaning, thinking to myself "Hmm...What should I do now?" I unthinkingly turned on my phone and started flicking through it. Then I realized - I was looking for inspiration. What was weird about this was that I was subconsciously ignoring the very explicit list I had made to tell myself exactly what it is I should "do now".

When I examined that behavior, I found that the reason I was ignoring the items on my to-do list was that there was an order that they probably should happen in, and I wasn't quite sure which one I should do next. While there are micro-sequences within the list, they're not in any specific order compared to the time of day. There was advantages and disadvantages to performing various tasks at various times, so deciding which one to do when actually required some degree of thought. Do I put away my clothes first? If I do that, it might be colder when I go out walking.

Once I realized this, I noticed a few things. Firstly, the immediate thing I did after cleaning was to sit and flick through my phone. I did that because visually, nothing triggered me to do anything different - and I can feel my phone in my pocket. Also, sitting down is usually what I do immediately after cleaning for a period of time. Secondly, I realized that my list of things to do was too vague and more complicated than I had initially anticipated. That is - my description of what to do was too vague. Deciding what to do was too complicated. It wasn't something that was going to happen subconsciously, so what happened is that, following a sequence of events, the subconscious brain no longer had any "triggers" left to go off of (The sequence was done, there was nothing immediately visible to do), and I switched into mental "limbo" where my body relaxed, and immediately, I believe, went for the phone, because I associate the phone with breaks and relaxation.

New Habit:

As a temporary experiment, I made a "shrine of things to do". Each of these items is associated in my mind with something on the to-do list. I organized these items very roughly by sequence, and recommended time of day to complete the sequences in. It took me...maybe 5 minutes, if that, to make my "shrine of things to do". Once I consciously thought about the list, it was very clear to me what order I should do things in. It simply required input from Brain, who had apparently clocked out. (f.u brain. this is all your fault).

If this shrine works, what I'll do is set it up each day - not on the kitchen counter - which is a poor place to deliberately clutter...but on my bed in my office on a piece of plexiglass I have. This should accomplish the dual purpose of preventing me from actually using the bed as my "thinking spot" - which is a nasty habit I've developed - and often leads to phone abuse or YouTube. (Thank god I'm not a social media addict).

Plans for the rest of the day:

Tonight, I want to try to repeat some of the behavior from last night. I'm deliberately going to set aside time to chill with the pets. I think it's a healthy habit to get into, and they appreciate the one-on-one cuddles and sweet human language. I'm also going to make a healthy, home-cooked meal that I'm going to make every effort to get excited about, and enjoy. I'll have wine with it - but no more than two glasses. I'm also going to consume media that I find to either be humorous, or cute.

Tonight, I'm going to flesh out some more of my "habit systems" I've been developing today, and I'm going to roughly follow the loose night schedule I've made for myself. I have a more grand design in mind, but I don't have things set up yet for implementing it, so for now I'll just do some bits and pieces to get the ball rolling in that direction.




Here's a change I made to my phone. Now if I push the home button on my phone, all of the apps are gone from the main screen and the background is my to-do list. Ooooo, so motivational!

To do list progress for yesterday and today

Not as much progress as I expected, but its okay.

The Sacred Shrine of Environmental Triggers

 

[Inexorable Username]

On another note - does anyone have any idea how I edit my old posts? The posts I initially made on this thing don't have an edit button any more. I wanted to keep an index and stuff.

 

[Inexorable Username]

The counter is working so far. Just looking at that stuff on my counter is killing me....XD....tank tops do not belong on counters! Neither do foam rollers. Time to go be productive so I can get this shit out of my head and not go crazy.

 

[Inexorable Username]

People have got to stop thinking serial killers are intelligent.

In fact, serial killers are a great example of how sucky IQ is as a measure of intelligence. Look at Ed Kemper. His brain is pretty much the poster child for full-system failure, yet supposedly he has a 140 IQ. Which, in the relative scheme of things, isn't really that high...I think my ex (the Neo nazi) was 136 (according to him), and I think Jordan Peterson is 150 something. But, even so, the fact that a man can have such poor cognitive abilities and still test so highly in IQ is, to me, a good demonstration of how poorly IQ reflects intelligence.

The problem is, a person like Ed Kemper can have savant-like abilities in quantitative reasoning, and it skews the scores. That doesn't mean his brain functions better than the average brain. You need all aspects of the brain to function reasonably well to achieve intelligence in life. Jordan Peterson makes a good point that most people on the higher end of the spectrum test as "unevenly gifted" anyways. I was called "unevenly gifted" when my IQ was taken - but I forgot what it was, it was a long time ago so don't bother asking. Lol. But the point is - whatever it is that I tested well in, I have other aspects of neurological functioning that are pretty poor, which brings my overall intelligence down.

That's the way intelligence works, really. So many things have to go wrong for serial killers to make the dumb, completely animalistic decisions they make. Not only do they have to be morally bankrupt individuals, which is about 50 points in the "stupid" category, in and of itself, but then, they have to just have a complete mental fuckery transpire before they make the ridiculous choice to murder a person. Which is why we just don't have that many serial killers. Most people aren't that dumb, and these days, most people aren't drugged enough to become that dumb, either.

Well. That's my controversial, uncharacteristically passionate stance on that, I guess. Stop. Calling. Killers. Smart. They don't deserve the compliment. I'd like to take that compliment - but I refuse to, because I know it's not true. But if that compliment is going to a man like Ed Kemper - screw that noise. I'll be happy to take the compliment in his stead. I'm at more intelligent than a man with a killing compulsion. My dog is more intelligent than that man, I think. And I used to crate her as a puppy - so, you know....mother-induced trauma right there. In fact, I once left her at the dog park (I was watching her from afar, obviously, would not have just left her totally unattended but she needed to develop a healthy respect for the word "come"), and I used to tell her she's a "nasty little beastie" and she should be "ashamed of herself" when she snatched food off the counter. My dog is like the poster child for a "mother created serial killer", and yet, she still exercises greater cognitive mastery than Ed Kemper. Imagine that. My dog is smarter than a serial killer.

Disclaimer: Please don't go away thinking that I'm some kind of animal abuser. My dog and I love each other and we have a great relationship and a long history. However, I'm a firm believer in discipline - especially with a large, powerful breed like this dog. Also, well aware that the dog doesn't speak fluent English. She still understands the concept of shame, though. It's the emotional inflection, body language, pitch, and volume of the thing.

 

[Inexorable Username]

A large part of human intelligence is:

Categorization - ability to distinguish between one thing and another, like a person who is innocent, verses the person who harmed you

Ability to understand consequences - the thing which keeps us from raping and stealing from each other, and also the thing that many common criminals lack.

And,

Morality - people who cannot grasp the concept of what is right and what is wrong, and why those things are the way that they are, and why they make logical sense, have to have poor functioning in various mental aspects to pull that off. At least, that's what my understanding is of the brain and how it works.

By this frame of mind, not many psychopaths are very intelligent either. So lets also stop glorifying that while we're at it. Psychopaths demonstrate many things akin to stupidity - but I think the difference is that psychopaths can tend towards being heavily intellectually analytical, which can make them appear more intelligent, and when they're able to use conscientiousness to overcome their mental predispositions, I think the act of doing so can be evidence of intelligence. So some psychopaths in prestigious circumstances could be seen as being intelligent human beings.

Contrarily, the serial killer that can't help but make a series of very poor decisions because they're such a slave to the compulsions of their limbic system, and so unable to exercise the greater power of their brain to compensate for that defectiveness - well that is clear evidence of stupidity in my book.

I might add that I don't think that having fantasies related to death and murder, or even having curiosities about that kind of material and expressing a desire to understand it or learn about it, constitutes a lack of intelligence. It's the committing of the action, without benefit of the brain, that is a clear sign of lack of intelligence.

To that, I'll add another point. Most people who are heavily invested in researching and understanding dark topics such as murder still have a strong grasp of reality, and they possess the ability to visualize and empathize in such a way as to understand what those situations would truly feel like. Serial killers, contrarily, appear to have no ability to actually understand the reality of those situations, and often the cannot even comprehend reality itself. Not in the way that they have hallucinations, or something. In the way that they cannot seem to demonstrate self-awareness or distinguish between their fantasies of a person, and what the person is probably, or actually like.

In order to actually follow through on the act of killing someone, too, you've got to have a pretty poorly functioning brain. Most people would be stimulated by fear, reasoning, empathy, or various other triggers that would kick the brain out of instinctual mode and into the greater mode of human-thinking.

Ed Kemper clearly lacked all such triggers. Therefore, my dog has a better ability to use her critical brain to manage her limbic system than Ed Kemper. So I poorly rest my case. My dog is smarter than Ed Kemper (who allegedly has some kind of absurd IQ score like 140. I'd like to question the psychologist who came up with that idea.)

 

[Inexorable Username]

Maybe I will turn this into a comedy skit.

"Dogs are smarter than serial killers"

 

[Inexorable Username]

Self-Discipline

Previous Experiment

The shrine of environmental triggers was reduced to a set of boxes with triggers for morning, afternoon, and evening. This seems to have worked "alright", but it's a little complicated to keep up with, the verdict is still out.

Current Experiment

Currently testing whether or not increasing the frequency of mild-moderate exercise reduces muscle pain. Aiming for a frequency of about 24 hours per "long" workout session, and 6-12 hours per "short" workout session - which would mostly involve stretching & using a foam roller. These workout sessions would be 10-20 minutes long.

Long workouts, atm, are 1 hour - 2 hours and thirty minutes long, and involve a full-body workout with weights for arms & legs, and cardio.

Theory:

Increasing workout frequency will dramatically reduce muscle fatigue & muscle pain, and increase weight loss. In the past, walking a bunch and doing about 1 hour of working out per day (full body weights + cardio), for apx two weeks, has not appeared to correlate with any noticeable change in weight loss.

By decreasing the amount of "down time" between workout sessions, I'm hoping that my body will respond by increasing my metabolism. I think that including shorter workout sessions which focus mainly on warming up and relaxing the muscles, will result in less overall muscle pain and more calories burned.

Finishing Thoughts:

I hope to, potentially, notice changes in self-discipline, scheduling, task switching, sleep quality, mood regulation, and thought stability. I think I'll know fairly quickly whether this routine is going to help me avoid muscle pain, because my previous experiment in working out only one hour per day for two weeks was brutal. I tend to not get too much muscle pain, but the muscle pain back then set in after about three days and pretty much persisted for the entire two weeks. I eventually had to stop my experiment because I injured my ankle walking down the stairs. No bueno. Couldn't even happen when I was working out - which would have been bragging points, maybe, at least? No. It had to happen as I was stepping onto perfectly flat, unmoving floor. Such is life!

This time around, I have more stretches and stuff planned around maintaining flexible joints, feet, knees...the works really. I'm also taking it a bit easier with my workout this time, and stretching my workout over a longer period of time to compensate for the slightly "lighter" exercising. I don't easily feel muscle pain, so for me to get the pain I got last time, I had to really "work at it".

Excited for this project! I hope it works out!

 

[Elen]

This time around, I have more stretches and stuff planned around maintaining flexible joints, feet, knees...the works really. I'm also taking it a bit easier with my workout this time, and stretching my workout over a longer period of time to compensate for the slightly "lighter" exercising. I don't easily feel muscle pain, so for me to get the pain I got last time, I had to really "work at it".

I practiced Taoist Tai Chi for a year or so....must have been 5.5 years ago. Life hit me like a fraight train and I never got back to it though lately I've been thinking about it.

It was restorative for my joints and very centering like nothing else I've done. If you can find a local chapter to join I highly recommend it. It is 100% old folks stuff but it is very relaxing and great for the joints. https://www.taoisttaichi.org/