The Chip

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Hey guys,

"Why White Men Prefer Asian Women"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/555526/posts

Before you launch into an argument about details, hear me out! This guy's argument isn't based physical appearances, and he discounts the stereotype that asians are more submissive. His argument totally lies on a psychological idea.

The default position of American women is what men refer to as “the chip,” a veiled truculence, mixed with a not-very-veiled hostility toward men and a shaky sense of sexual identity. The result is a touchiness reminiscent of hungover ferrets. There is a bandsaw edge to them, a watching for any slight so that they can show that they aren´t going to take it. They are poised to lash out in aggressive defense of their manhood.
As best as I can tell, they don´t like being women. Here is the entire problem in five words.
The Asians at the Spot show every indication that they do like being women. They do not seem to have anything to prove. Being happy with what they are allows them to be comfortable with what they are not – men. They are not competing to be what they can´t be with people who can´t be anything else. They don´t have to establish their masculinity because they don´t want it. They do not assume, as American women tend to, that femaleness is a diseased condition to be treated by male clothes, gutter language, and bad temper.
I´ve spent many dozens of hours chatting with the gals at the Spot, and never seen a sign of the chip. For a man, the experience is wonderful beyond description – smart, pretty, classy women, who are women, and are not the enemy. As long as American women carry the chip, the Asian gals will eat them alive in the dating market.

Is the Chip real? Have you seen it? How do you react to it?

I think I've seen it... and I react in an INTP-chameleon kind of way. If a girl I'm meeting isn't friendly, then I also act in a passive not-friendly way. It's pretty stupid.

 

[eudemonia]

Civilian Jones you have got it all wrong. The problem is not western women, it is rather western men. Basically, the latter have lost their masculinity. So they go for non-assertive women because that's all they can cope with. Women hate men they can manipulate. Western men are so scared of the Chip that they are putty in women's hands. Boring. Women, who are intelligent and sassy and brave, want men with....b...s errmm....courage. Unfortunately, many western men, living off beef and chicken and milk charged with female growth hormones have become effeminate. They can't help it. We feel sorry for them

In the meantime, there are plenty of Turkish, Russian, Latin, tall, dark and handsome men who can cope with women with character. It seems that Darwin had it right - western men with asian women; strong men, with strong women.

Oh, dear.....have I manifested the Chip? Can you cope???

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Call me CJ. I'd be willing to admit that there are two sides to the coin- that there has been both an effemination of men and a Chip-ing of women.

But if it is the men's fault for being effeminate, and not being courageous enough... then how did that come about? Who took the testicles of American men?? Female growth hormones and plentiful diet isn't a plausible explanation for me.

Here's a quote from the article to respond to your opinion that men want women who are non-assertive:

[FONT=GEORGIA, TIMES NEW ROMAN, TIMES, SERIF]Another explanation popular among American women is that men want submissive women, which Asians are believed to be. Again, no. For one thing, submissive people are bland and boring. In any event the waitresses aren´t submissive. Many compete successfully in tough professions. Among Asian waitresses I know I count an electrical engineer who does wide-area networks, and a woman with a masters in biochemistry who, upon finding that research required a Ph.D and didn´t pay, went back to school and became a dentist. Both of these wait tables to help out in the family restaurant.

[/FONT][FONT=GEORGIA, TIMES NEW ROMAN, TIMES, SERIF]At the Spot I know a woman waitressing her way through a degree in computer security, a bright Japanese college graduate making a career in the restaurant business, and the manager of the Spot – not a light-weight job. Submissiveness has nothing to do with their attractiveness.[/FONT]

 

[eudemonia]

Ahhhh, don't you love Asian waitresses with their PhDs. The perfect combo - waiting on and, when you're ready guys, intellectual stimulation at your beck and call. Followed by - 'waiting on'. Perrrrrrfect.

 

[Kidege]

Can I mail order a wife? I could use a drink and some speculation on the origin of the universe.

That said, the first Asian woman who comes to my mind owned a v. succesful photography shop. She was so... happy in her feminity that she resembled a marines sgt., or perhaps a menacing pitbull. Oh, wait, that has nothing to do with her feminity.

And now I have to ask: How do we define feminity? How valid is the generalization of Asian girls as "feminine"?

 

[Vrecknidj]

I've been married for 20 years to a red-head (with the stereotypical temperament of her Scottish heritage). It's beyond me whether there are or are not chips. But, I'd argue that the entire American culture regarding healthy relationships has been so out of touch since well before the 1960s that it's hard to make such an assessment of women (or men) without looking at the deeper causes.

Dave

 

[Agent Intellect]

i like a woman that will not be offended easily and that will argue with me until my INTPness is all worn out. i think its a little strange to generalize people like this, though. are all "western" women more assertive then women of asian ancestry? physically speaking theres an obvious difference between races, but i can't say theres a definite psychological difference.

 

[Decaf]

Rather than delve too deep into the topic I would point out that I am a western male who finds himself often dating strong-willed asian women. I think there's something about their cultural identity that I like. It might be as simple as having a more introverted cultural ideal, which fits me better than my own culture.

I'm of the opinion that any individual who finds themselves at odds with their own culture will gravitate towards foreign romantic relations. Is the chip real? Is it based on a desire to dominate another? At best I think those are symptoms.

 

[FusionKnight]

I can't really make any statement vis-a-vis Asian women and The Chip, but I definitely believe The Chip, as a concept, exists in "Western" society, particularly in the United States.

Civilian Jones you have got it all wrong. The problem is not western women, it is rather western men. Basically, the latter have lost their masculinity. So they go for non-assertive women because that's all they can cope with. Women hate men they can manipulate. Western men are so scared of the Chip that they are putty in women's hands. Boring. Women, who are intelligent and sassy and brave, want men with....b...s errmm....courage. Unfortunately, many western men, living off beef and chicken and milk charged with female growth hormones have become effeminate. They can't help it. We feel sorry for them

Nia, I think you're right in that there is a second half to the problem. Absent fathers create situations where boys are raised by their mothers, and are never initiated into manhood. These 30-year-old boys get married to women like their mothers who are used to "mothering" these adult boys. These boys can't give women what they want, and the women react to weak men by becoming men, which causes them to hate the man-boys they've married. This leads to resentment on the part of the husband, and he retreats further.

It's a vicious cycle.

 

[NoID10ts]

Asian women are hot.

So are Hispanic women. I married a hispanic woman .

I don't like mean, pushy, domineering white ladies.

I have nothing further to contribute.

 

[Agent Intellect]

Asian women are hot.

So are Hispanic women. I married a hispanic woman .

I don't like mean, pushy, domineering white ladies.

i second that. of course, i don't trust white people in general. i think given the chance, they'd all become hitlers.

 

[Decaf]

OK, so adding on to what I suggested earlier, I wonder if that sense of not fitting into the culture you belong to is what appears to be shared in common with the individual who has a foreign ethnic background, but what differentiates them from other people of your same culture that don't fit in is that they also have personality qualities that are attractive in an opposite attracts kind of way. After all, an asian ESTJ won't necessarily mesh well with an ESTJ society, and that might make them attractive to a loner who finds unentangled ESTJs attractive.

Now that I think about it, I bet that happens often. I know of many anecdotal instances where marriages have fallen apart (even if they didn't end in divorce) because the foreign partner found themselves suddenly meshing fully in their adopted culture, but not their domestic mate.

 

[NoID10ts]

I find an interracial relationship exciting, but I don't think it will work out well if both sides don't learn to adapt to each others culture. My wife and I had some monumental battles related to culture and upbringing at first, but we were commited to the marriage and we adapted to each other quite well. I feel very comfortable with Mexican culture now, and I think my wife is pretty comfortable in a more anglo environment as well. We are both kind of misfits regardless of which culture we are floating through at the moment, but I think we are stronger for it.

One of our biggest battles was over the issue of time. Anglos (at least in my upbringing) love appointments and promptness and "being there when you say you will be there". My wife's culture, not so much. We would make plans, and her mom or sister or someone would just shoot all our plans to hell every time. I would make a plan involving her sister and say, "Lets meet at the house and go eat lunch at 11:30". So when her sister shows up at 3:30, I'm ready to kill.

When I decided to propose, I made plans to take her out to eat, just the two of us, and propose over dinner. I even gave her brother advance warning with the express insturctions not to let anyone else come along. Guess who came to dinner? The whole family (she is one of 7 kids) including, of course, the brother I warned in advance. I was so pissed! I ended up proposing in the back room later that evening at her Mom's house .

Anyway, I learned that when I am with them I have to just forget about the plans and go with the flow. Her culture is much more relaxed, less anal about everything. She used to drive my parents crazy because she was never on time, but now she has learned to adapt and is much more punctual when my parents are involved. It's a give and take. if both sides don't make concessions it can't survive.

Why am I going on about all of this?

 

[Kidege]

I'm hispanic. If I have a chip I haven't noticed. Of course I haven't noticed it in my non hispanic friends. I'm just me. If that means most guys don't know what to make of me, too bad.

But perhaps I can shed some light onto why hispanic women seem attractive to white men. (Disclaimer: this has nothing to do at all with NoID10ts's life, relationship, etc.)

Are we trained to humour guys? Yes, we are. My mother's generation still regards a divorced woman as some kind of loser. Someone who must have some huge character flaw.

I've heard many conversations in which a woman complains about her husband and someone replies: "Yes, he may be (a drunkard, liar, cheater, wife beater) but he's your husband" Then they proceed to find some hidden virtue in the guy: "He's a good father" (meaning he gives money to feed the kids and/or doesn't beat them), or "He's so responsible" (meaning he has a job), or "He still gives you your place" (meaning he has a mistress but still comes home most nights).

Compared to the standards for women, the standars for hispanic guys are ridiculously low.

So if you don't cheat, you don't drink heavily, you aren't violent and you have a job, you're ahead of the race. You're a great guy. If besides all this you are smart, or can cook, or drive your kids to school, you're a veritable treasure.

See how this can work in favour of a non hispanic guy?

AND you have to take into account the white factor. The white factor means that racist hispanic girls will let you get away with more than the usual. It also means they'll work harder at making you feel welcome. I swear to the high heavens I'm not making this up: I've seen -private- college girls turn into flirty morons at the sight of "the French guy", or "the loaded Gringo". Of course healthy relationships don't result from this, so actual cross cultural marriages must be based on something else.

 

[NoID10ts]

This is true. I didn't know this before I married into a hispanic family, but my wife always said she didn't like the "machismo" of many hispanic guys. She wasn't looking for a white guy, in particular, but she was not going to end up with some macho jerkoff that treated her like shit. She has some real prize assholes in her family, and their wives are just doormats. One uncle is a bigomist with a wife on either side of the border, one uncle is a pedophile drunk. I don't understand it.

None of that was a factor for us though, fortunately. I'm just a sucker for the dark hair and eyes and the beautiful skin tone. But it doesn't hurt that she can cook like a motherfucker (sorry, pardon the language, I got excited)! As for me, she married me for my money, but I didn't tell her I didn't have any until she was drugged and wearing the wedding ring.

 

[Agent Intellect]

race has never really been an issue for me. i met my girlfriend over the internet, i had no idea what she looked like until after we'd been talking for a couple months. i'd marry an alien if she had a good mind.

 

[Auburn]

@ Kidege - ...um... ...all this time I really thought you were a guy. *embarassed* Gosh, I even depicted you as a guy in the "Visual Impressions" thread. Hey! you even said that you like that description!.

Oh well...I guess the mind is a genderless organ. It really doesn't matter in the end.

i'd marry an alien if she had a good mind.

I really think I would too.

Hmmm, I think this goes the same for culture - for me it comes down to their mind - not their genetics. (but then again their mind is affected by their culture in a psycholigical way - which would matter because that alters their mind.)

 

[Kidege]

@Auburn: I see -biologically assigned- sex as different from -culturally assigned- gender. So while I am female, my gender's either/neither.

And yes, I liked the visual description. I also liked Decaf's. His is closer to reality, but yours is, to me, still a valid and nice possibility (ideally speaking and if reincarnation were real, for instance).

I guess the mind is a genderless organ. It really doesn't matter in the end.

Ditto.

 

[Kuu]

One of our biggest battles was over the issue of time. Anglos (at least in my upbringing) love appointments and promptness and "being there when you say you will be there". My wife's culture, not so much.

I am not guilty of this. In fact we tend to have even more issues with europeans than with americans. Specially with germans. They just go nuts. I don't know how my brother survives in France, considering he's got an extreme case of impunctuality (he's INTP to boot).

In part it's nice to have a laid back culture, but the back side of the coin means that as a culture we're quite a lazy and mediocre with everything.

I've heard many conversations in which a woman complains about her husband and someone replies: "Yes, he may be (a drunkard, liar, cheater, wife beater) but he's your husband" Then they proceed to find some hidden virtue in the guy: "He's a good father" (meaning he gives money to feed the kids and/or doesn't beat them), or "He's so responsible" (meaning he has a job), or "He still gives you your place" (meaning he has a mistress but still comes home most nights).

Compared to the standards for women, the standars for hispanic guys are ridiculously low.

I despise that mentality. Have those women absolutely no self-respect? And those macho guys as well. The abusive and retrograde state of gender roles around here really make go crazy. The things religion can do to people...

So if you don't cheat, you don't drink heavily, you aren't violent and you have a job, you're ahead of the race. You're a great guy. If besides all this you are smart, or can cook, or drive your kids to school, you're a veritable treasure.

See how this can work in favour of a non hispanic guy?

AND you have to take into account the white factor. The white factor means that racist hispanic girls will let you get away with more than the usual. It also means they'll work harder at making you feel welcome. I swear to the high heavens I'm not making this up: I've seen -private- college girls turn into flirty morons at the sight of "the French guy", or "the loaded Gringo". Of course healthy relationships don't result from this, so actual cross cultural marriages must be based on something else.

I can vouch for this. There is nothing worse to me than racist hispanic girls. If there is a god, it knows I know this all too well, having lived in the 9th circle of stuck-up rich private school hell for my entire life (still am). I live surrounded by them. They supposedly despise "trashy sexualized american culture and US family values" and are supposedly proudly patriotic and pure virginity, but actually are racist to their own people and desire nothing else than be trophy wives for rich french/american/spanish/whatever anglo/euro guy, no matter how much of an asshole he is. It's all about meaningless sex with the hot foreigner. And they don't even have to be from another country; On vacations even the most "prudish" girls turn into whores as long as they're on the other side of the country where nobody knows them, mingling with other "white" racist hispanics.

(Maybe that should have gone to the shout club... )



But regarding "the chip" as cultural or racial, that's BS. Culture affects personality, yes, but one just cannot stereotype people like that. We are all individuals. At least us members of this forum should know that, being the tragically misunderstood type and all that jazz. And really, Masculinity and Femininity again? I though we had bludgeoned those concepts to death on the Gender Roles and INTP females thread...

but what differentiates them from other people of your same culture that don't fit in is that they also have personality qualities that are attractive in an opposite attracts kind of way

But they don't have to be of another culture to have that (even though some cultures might have a preference for particular personality types). You could just find another misfit of your own culture with the right personality.


I could marry an alien too. I really don't care if a girl wears men's clothes (that's actually quite hot) and I really don't care if she's a nasty speaker as long as that isn't her entire vocabulary. What I find attractive is that a person is comfortable with who that person is, regardless of social expectations or traditional roles. Even if their type clashes with mine, I just totally dig independent and confident people. I don't care if they're thai, irish, indian, or canadian, man, woman, or inbetween.

 

[Decaf]

But they don't have to be of another culture to have that (even though some cultures might have a preference for particular personality types). You could just find another misfit of your own culture with the right personality.

True, but I think there is an unhealthy fascination with being approved of by an outsider who shares personality traits with the culture that does not approve of you. That's hard to get when with the girl next door.

That's probably not the majority reasoning, but it makes sense when I think it

 

[EloquentBohemian]

i'd marry an alien if she had a good mind.

Are you in Luck!
I think introductions are in order!

Agent Intellect, this is my cousin 12th removed on my mother's side from the planet XeR%(!!< (...a rough translation), which is just a mere 73,000 parsecs from the Andromeda Galaxy.
You can see quite clearly that she has, or rather is, a brain.

 

[Kuu]

A beautiful mind is not the same as a beautiful brain, methinks

True, but I think there is an unhealthy fascination with being approved of by an outsider who shares personality traits with the culture that does not approve of you. That's hard to get when with the girl next door.

That's probably not the majority reasoning, but it makes sense when I think it

There is? Perchance you are projecting yourself a little there?

(Edit: Perchance? I need to sleep. To sleep, perchance to dream. Dear gods, I am channeling Shakespeare now! I really should go now. If. Only. I. Could.)

 

[NoID10ts]

Hey, I know her! And, you know, as long as the lights are out............


@Tekton

I really love the relaxed pace of my wife's family now. I've learned so much from hispanic culture. I actually feel more comfortable there than in my own culture. There is something peaceful about it and the spontanaity is great. I just had to learn to let go of my need for plans and structure.

My wife's brother married a trashy white chick and HO - LY SHIT! She never could adjust and she ended up cheating on him and they had this horrible divorce. It was awful, and alot of it was that she just couldn't amalgamate into the lifestyle. She wanted everyone to change for her without making any changes of her own. Can't make a marriage work with that mentality.

 

[Decaf]

There is? Perchance you are projecting yourself a little there?

Possible, but I think I may have just taken a wrong turn down theory lane. Not everything can be broken down into personality type shaped chunks sadly

I used to use perchance all the time. Its a good word, but it does ratchet up that pretentiousness scale a bit. I hate that scale... removes so many highly appropriate words from use because they alienate people for no good reason.

 

[Kidege]

Hey Tekton, Tec or Ibero?
I've been to both and let me tell you: many years from now you'll try to get rid of the accent, but it can't be done! It will forever haunt you like a question mark after each vowel!

/off topic-ness

Edit: Gotta be Tec. You said 74. So it's either Ciudad or Santa Fe. Mwahaha! I'm going to find you! Nah. Wouldn't do that to you. Stay safe and anonymous.

 

[shaunjvallejo]

I prefer assertive women. They are more far more likely to

1. Hold their own damn job
2. Lay out things in a manner I can easily understand.
3. Have their own passions, and allow me to pursue mine.


I am a huge fan of equality for women. Had I been alive, I would have been burning a bra along with my girlfriend/ wife. And then, I would have handed them the classifieds.

My ex wife was utterly without passion. Passive aggression, followed by retreat from confrontation. No chip, but I contemplated murder eight times a day from the constant apathy. The only thing she ever really wanted was not to work. No ambitions, no hobbies, nothing. Wound up divorcing me by text message.



God bless the chip.

 

[NoID10ts]

Divorce by text message? That's some lazy ass shit right there!

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Has anyone considered that asian women are just more civil?
(I'm making generalities based upon my age group)

But then they do tend to have big teeth and high voices...

I could make a list of pros and cons by nationality.

 

[Raison D'etre]

But then they do tend to have big teeth and high voices...

Hm... I never noticed the big teeth thing.

 

[shaunjvallejo]

Divorce by text message? That's some lazy ass shit right there!

Not lazy......she hates face to face confrontation. Her next message was, do you hate me?lol

 

[Kuu]

Hey Tekton, Tec or Ibero?
I've been to both and let me tell you: many years from now you'll try to get rid of the accent, but it can't be done! It will forever haunt you like a question mark after each vowel!

/off topic-ness

Edit: Gotta be Tec. You said 74. So it's either Ciudad or Santa Fe. Mwahaha! I'm going to find you! Nah. Wouldn't do that to you. Stay safe and anonymous.

Tec it is. But you'll never find me, I'm hiding in the provinces. But I won't tell you which, it'd be too easy to find me then... just going to the architecture dungeo- err... studio at 4am, staring at the floor while reading Lovecraft to the plotters...

/Off topicness


I like chips. They're tasty.

Can anyone explain why people are said to have "chips on their shoulders"? I Understand the expression, but where does it come from?