The Anima in Anime

[Auburn]

Preliminary:

The anima is, in short, the woman in men. There are certain secondary female sexual features in male. On the psychological plane we talk about the soul, or sensuality as opposed to rationality and reason (animus). But anima is much more than the sexual and psychological aspects. It is relational. That is, the anima archetype rules over the relationship between men and women. It is a kind of innate guide that leads one through the ambiguous path of meeting the woman and interact with her.The most known anima image is the mother archetype. It rules over the mother-son relationship. Therefore it is projected onto the mother image. We know of such female figures from the cultural and religious themes. Virgin Mary or Mother Earth and other such mythical figures may lead us to the mother archetype. (source)

[bimgx=200]http://jungcurrents.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/salome-jung-moreau.jpg[/bimgx]
Salome Dancing | Gustav Moreau
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The projection-forming factor is the anima. Wherever she appears in dreams, phantasies or visions, she appears personified, thereby demonstrating that basically she possesses all the outstanding characteristics of a female person.

She is not an invention of the conscious, but a spontaneous production of the unconscious; neither is she a substitute figure for the mother. On the contrary, there is every likelihood that those numinous attributes which make the Mother imago so dangerously powerful derive from the collective archetype, the anima, which is incarnated anew in every male child. (source)

"The anima is a personification of all feminine psychological tendencies in a man's psyche, such as vague feelings and moods, prophetic hunches, receptiveness to the irrational, capacity for personal love, feeling for nature, and - last but not least - his relation to the unconscious. It is no mere chance that in olden times priestesses (like the Greek Sibyl) were used to fathom the divine will and to make connection with the gods. In its individual manifestation the character of a man's anima is as a rule shaped by his mother. If he feels that his mother had a negative influence on him, his anima will often express itself in irritable, depressed moods, uncertainty, insecurity, and touchiness. (If, however, he is able to overcome the negative assaults on himself, they can even serve to reinforce his masculinity.)"

"The most frequent manifestation of the anima takes the form of erotic fantasy. Men may be driven to nurse their fantasies by looking at films and strip-tease shows, or by day-dreaming over pornographic material. This is a crude, primitive aspect of the anima, which becomes compulsive only when a man does not sufficiently cultivate his feeling relationships - when his feeling attitude toward life has remained infantile. All these aspects of the anima have the same tendency that we have observed in the shadow: That is, they can be projected so that they appear to the man to be the qualities of some particular woman."

"It is the presence of the anima that causes a man to fall suddenly in love when he sees a woman for the first time and knows at once that this is "she." In this situation, the man feels as if he has known this woman intimately for all time; he falls for her so helplessly that it looks to outsiders like complete madness. Women who are of "fairy-like" character especially attract such anima projections, because men can attribute almost anything to a creature who is so fascinatingly vague, and can thus proceed to weave fantasies around her. The projection of the anima in such a sudden and passionate form as a love affair can greatly disturb a man's marriage and can lead to the so-called "human triangle," with its accompanying difficulties. A bearable solution to such a drama can be found only if the anima is recognized as an inner power."

"The secret aim of the unconscious in bringing about such an entanglement is to force a man to develop and to bring his own being to maturity by integrating more of his unconscious personality and bringing it into his real life." (source)

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[Auburn]

{From here on, spoilers abound! Unfortunately I can't elaborate without getting into the core plots of the animes, though you can always first watch them online free!}

Evangelion
​

Rei Ayanami : The story of Neon Genesis Evangelion is, I think, one entirely revolving around the relationship Shinji has to his anima.

If one examines the story carefully, it is a psychological journey, wrapped around in a coat of aggrandized fantasy. Everything revolves around Shinji's inability to connect emotionally with the Women figure - and we see the painful frustration and raw pain that results from the clashing of his hopes with reality.

All of the main females in the show - Misato, Asuka, Rei - are representations of anima to him. Captain Misato is the seductive, mature, beautiful and experienced anima. While she is older than Shinji, that itself is part of her representation (maturity) and thus there's sexual tension involved despite the age gap.

Asuka is a more sophisticated case, as she represents what seems in the mind of Shinji as an actual women. Irritating, difficult, intimidating, obtrusive, pushy. This speaks something about Shinji, as real women don't always take this role.

But who is by far the strongest and purest symbol of the anima is Rei Ayanami. From the beginning of the show, Rei is an inhuman-like creature. That is to say, if one looks closely her psychology doesn't make 'sense' in how psychology typically manifests in humans. She has no personality.

This is often the feeling that the anima gives when it appears in dreams. It is as if the creature before you isn't quite "human", and this is because they are the embodiment of an archetype. I'll elaborate more on this non-human-ness later.

As the pure archetypal embodiment of the anima, toward the end of the series Rei becomes an entirely mythical entity; a goddess and a unifier of all souls on earth. She becomes the beakon of life, the apex of love and acceptance - and it is found out that that was her essence all along. She was a manufactured human, not born from normal flesh, but born with the destiny of uniting all humanity.

[bimgx=500]http://i.imgur.com/bxBETCU.png[/bimgx]
​

She merges also with Shinji, although Shinji cannot take this final embrace - being too underdeveloped in himself - and rejects the offer of full acceptance only to end up isolated at the end on an empty planet. An empty planet where - fittingly so - he is stranded with one other soul, the woman (Asuka) who he cannot merge with or understand.

===
There's also an enormous amount to be said for the character Shinji himself. In many animes (others i'll be pointing out) the main character is a young male who is socially awkward, whimpy, troubled and unable to relate to his own femininity, feelings, nor to women.

This is precisely the scenario in which the anima would project itself - both in fantasies, dreams, and via using other humans as proxies. Essentially, the Japanese culture has an enormous reservoir of fantasies between young males and their Anima.

Notice that there are far fewer cases where a female protagonist chases after, or projects her animus. This is also in line with what Jung wrote regarding the stronger prevalence/persistence of the Anima symbol in the male psyche, than the animus symbol in the female psyche. Males are overall more preoccupied, lead by, and sometimes obsessed with their chasing after the anima figure.

This same pattern can be seen in mythology, and the many symbols of women mythic animals such as the sirens/mermaids, nymphs, faeries, harpies, sphinx etc. Often the elements of elusiveness, sensuality and emotionality are merged in them.

It makes sense to me that Japan's fascination with the Anima figure has also lead to a sharp decline in some cities' polupation - as males prefer instead to remain enamoured by their fantasy of the anima... than face the disenchantment and compromise of actual relationships.

 

[Auburn]

Guilty Crown
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Inori : This anime starts out like a dream. Again, a socially awkward young boy who cannot relate his feelings stumbles upon a beautiful girl who... upon first meeting him is suddenly entirely open and vulnerable -- allowing him to literally reach into her soul and pull it out in a material form.

[bimgx=500]http://i.imgur.com/bj0qly2.jpg[/bimgx]
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Within the first few episodes she professes "I'm yours", "take me", and similar words. (It sounds dirty, but if you watch the anime you'll see they're meant in a different sense. The relation the girl Inori has to Shu isn't sexual initially --- it is mystical and psychological.) She, like Rei, has a surreal quality to her. And a "guiding spirit" aura to her. Inori is another archetypal representation of the Anima, though not as pure of a depiction as Rei.

Also like Rei, at the end we find out that Inori is indeed also a non-human; a girl who was generated out of the life energy of another being; essentially a shell of a soul. While Rei was generated from Shinji's mother's soul, Inori is generated from Shu's sister's soul.

Now, as the anime progresses things get complicated and Inori's disposition toward Shu changes. This is because this anime explores a different psychological terrain than Evangelion. In this anime, the Animus figure is also present --- in the form of Gai Tsutsugami. Gai is a smooth, rational spirit with incredible resolve and direction/destiny. He is a leader and a protector.

The Anima figure, Inori, gravitates toward the "ideal" male figure instead of the undercooked and inadequate Shu. This is very telling of how it feels from the male perspective when women chase after their animus. For the rest of the series Shu faces the challenge of living up to the animus figure, developing confidence, the spirit to protect, power and unwavering bravery.

He does not succeed in becoming the animus, but the anime ends with Inori still loving him anyways *because* of his humanness. This is an interesting way to end the series, as it seems like the author came full-circle with his plot and tied it back to acceptance and appreciation of our imperfect humanity. However, eventually, as with Rei, Inori vanishes into pure energy.

 

[Auburn]

Noein
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Haruka : In this anime we see less of an example of an Anima archetype, and more of an example of the relationship a boy has to the Animus archetype, through the Anima and how he failed to protect her.

[bimgx=500]http://i.imgur.com/jjEkYmS.jpg[/bimgx]
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A girl named Haruka is the childhood friend and love-interest of a young boy named Yu. The story revolves around the continual abduction and jeopardy of Haruka and the struggle to protect her - as she is the sole point that merges all dimensions in the universe. Again we see the element of universality and magic attached to the young boy's love interest.

However, the qualities of Haruka herself are more simplistic. She is indeed feminine, but pure spirited, average and innocent. The main plot of this story is with Karasu ---- which ends up being Yu himself, from a future timeline --- who embodies the role of a pseudo-animus.

Karasu is exceedingly protective of Haruka, to the death, and considers her his cherished one. From what I presently understand, the anima is the Cherished one to the animus --- and one of the main qualities of the Animus is an unwavering protectiveness and strength toward the Anima. Manhood.

Once again we have the young male character being one who is moody, self-deprecating and aloof to the emotions of others. Karasu loathes Yu, as Yu is the spineless version of himself back before he was a man. Back before he cared for anyone but himself. And Karasu blames Yu for having let Haruka die in his own dimension.

I suspect this anime is written more from the perspective of female psychology, as Yu seems almost to be how a woman might see an immature male, and their own animus wishing they were more mature. In this case, Karasu might represent an aggressive or vengeful animus within a women.

 

[Auburn]

Ah My Goddess!

Belldandy : Now this anime's pretty simplistic and there are dozens like it so I'll use this one as the main example rather than go into each one. Again we see a young boy with no grace, no talent or ability with emotions or women, who magically encounters an ideal women. A pure-hearted goddess who will grant him any wish, and his wish was to forever remain by the side of this goddess.
​

[bimgx=500]http://i.imgur.com/26yllMY.jpg[/bimgx]
​

A lot of animes don't delve too deeply into the psychology of it, yet still possess a very clear anima figure -- a fantastical, unrealistic female personality that graces an undeveloped child with her love. This too is entirely typical - as the male mind/heart is often quite simplistic and primitive at first in its relation to, and understanding of, the anima. As stated in the first post, in the most primitive sense, it manifests solely as enchanting erotic fantasies - re: Hentai.

But it is not only that "males are more horny", it is that males idealize the "women" figure in their mind much more. Both in sex/appearance & psychology, there is a tendency toward becoming tranced by a notion of what they are.

The integration and embracing of the anima into the male psychology, so that those qualities chased after instead become qualities of oneself, is the ultimate goal in actualizing one's sexuality as well as idealization of the opposite gender.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

I see you have focused on the alternate ending to the NGE. Love is destructive/One more final, without mentioning the original Do you love me?/Take Care of yourself two final episodes. In the original ending the exact opposite of rejection happens as Shinji merges with all of the humanity, which is also something to be considered as a very different perspective from what I see presented here.

I find it interesting, maybe in due time I will find some examples of the relations to add. Unless of course it is intended to be a presentation, in which case I can delete any comment I leave.

 

[Auburn]

There's two endings? *ponders* ...I vaguely remember, yes. I hadn't considered the other. I'm not sure I even saw it but now I definitely need/want to. It's so interesting that the author would decide to divide the ending into the two possibilities that may transpire from this whole emotional journey. Isolation vs full embrace.

(Your comments are most welcome, Blarraun! I wish to start a discussion I suppose, not just monologue. =) Though it took a bit of writing to get my initial thoughts out. It'd be very interesting if other examples were found, too.)

P.S. Which ending of Evangelion do you prefer?

 

[DelusiveNinja]

Are there archetypes for animus as well?

The only one I'm familiar with is the archetype that promotes and encourages the individual who is seeking strength to go forth.

Example from Kissxsis (it's kinda bad that I remember this):

 

[Latte]

This thread is awesome.

I think, with the march of feminism, females exploring and developing their animus has become much more encouraged and doable, while males and how culture affects males still lags behind in opportunities and encouragement for developing their anima.

This leads to a lot of males feeling there is a sort of unfairness in the current situation, even though they don't quite understand why. That women are more equal in terms of relational power, this stemming a lot from the feeling that one needs what they provide of anima in one's life more than they need animus from males.

The cure to this is developing one's own anima, and the cure to culture is for men to be more liberated and encouraged to do so, with less cultural backlash against those who do.
Sadly, reactionary responses to this often entails the demonization of female balance and empowerment rather than approaches aimed at developing the male psyche in similar fashion on a cultural level.
To actually have the anima become a part of oneself rather than to have the supply of this nourishment so strongly outsourced (often leading to bitterness, obsessiveness and despair) is often not even considered.

But it will happen, over time.

"You can't stop what's coming."

TL: DR "Strong independent man and you don't need no woman as much as you think you do."

 

[Cognisant]

Ergo Proxy

The real Re-l (pronounced Re-"L") Mayer and the cloned "Real" Mayer.

Spoiler

Spoiler

The former is a cold, cynical, non-nonsense character who dresses entirely in black while the latter was created by some doctor guy who had an unrequited love for her. I haven't seen much of the show but I think the clone left the doctor guy to die for some reason and died herself when she tried to reason with the antagonist/protagonist before their climatic battle, bursting into flames because of sunlight.

I think at least in the beginning the way Re-l Mayer gets on with Vincent symbolises the anima of guys who have trouble with women, she's very hostile and emotionally defensive but interestingly chasing her animus in the form of Vincent's superpowered proxy self, an animus that he's trying to live up to. The two are mirror images of each other, Vincent embodies his anima but needs to man up to win Re-l's respect while Re-l herself is a very strong/driven person who represses her anima, a problem which wasn't really addressed in the few episodes I saw.

The Re-l clone is blatantly an overly idealised anima and just goes to show the problem with being too idealistic, she has a mind of her own and for whatever reason decides to abandon her creator, inadvertently crushing him both figuratively and literally if I remember correctly.

 

[Cognisant]

Cibo and Sanakan from "Blame!" are worth a mention too, there's a lot of body swapping going on and for a while they co-inhabit the same body, then at one point there's two Cibo's from different dimensions, it's complicated.

Suffice to say they play the same black & white anima trope, Cibo (who wears white) is the nice one and Sanakan (who has a jet black bio-mechanical body) is the shoot-you-in-the-face-with-DNA-reprogramming-darts one, that's just how she says hello.

They are however both very different characters indeed you could say the entire story is just about them and their relationship and Killy is just this third wheel that runs around shooting things because in the far future some things just need to be shot and he's just the short generic Asian guy with the totally O.P. gun to do it.

 

[Cognisant]

Spoiler

Ah My Goddess!

Belldandy : Now this anime's pretty simplistic and there are dozens like it so I'll use this one as the main example rather than go into each one. Again we see a young boy with no grace, no talent or ability with emotions or women, who magically encounters an ideal women. A pure-hearted goddess who will grant him any wish, and his wish was to forever remain by the side of this goddess.
​

[bimgx=500]http://i.imgur.com/26yllMY.jpg[/bimgx]
​

A lot of animes don't delve too deeply into the psychology of it, yet still possess a very clear anima figure -- a fantastical, unrealistic female personality that graces an undeveloped child with her love. This too is entirely typical - as the male mind/heart is often quite simplistic and primitive at first in its relation to, and understanding of, the anima. As stated in the first post, in the most primitive sense, it manifests solely as enchanting erotic fantasies - re: Hentai.

But it is not only that "males are more horny", it is that males idealize the "women" figure in their mind much more. Both in sex/appearance & psychology, there is a tendency toward becoming tranced by a notion of what they are.

The integration and embracing of the anima into the male psychology, so that those qualities chased after instead become qualities of oneself, is the ultimate goal in actualizing one's sexuality as well as idealization of the opposite gender.

Sweet caring goddess figures don't typically feature in erotic fantasies, they tend more to inspire that relaxed gentle dopamine feeling, the same feeling feeling you get from chocolate or seeing pictures of kittens puppies and other cute things. This is the love drug and in my experience sexual desire is almost an entirely different thing, indeed I'm pretty sure it is, pictures of large breasted & doe-eyed women may bring about both feel-good chemicals but outright hentai is rarely heartwarming.

I think this is because the dopamine high comes with a sharp edge of loneliness if it's artificially obtained and being lonely & horny at the same time is a fast track into feelings of hopelessness and depression. This splitting of the anima into constituent appeals is clearly shown in Final Fantasy VII where you have Tifa Lockheart (busty miniskirt brawler girl) and Aerith Gainsborough (flower shop girl and healer) and it's a common trope, you rarely see a Pollyanna as sexualised as her counterpart Action Girl.

This also fits the black & white anima thing I mentioned earlier, of the characters mentioned in regard to that if asked me which I find more sexually attractive it's always the dark anima but if you asked me which I'd prefer to be in a long term relationship with it's always the light anima.

Which I suppose is why many guys try to have it both ways with two different women.

 

[Auburn]

Spoiler

Sweet caring goddess figures don't typically feature in erotic fantasies, they tend more to inspire that relaxed gentle dopamine feeling, the same feeling feeling you get from chocolate or seeing pictures of kittens puppies and other cute things. This is the love drug and in my experience sexual desire is almost an entirely different thing, indeed I'm pretty sure it is, pictures of large breasted & doe-eyed women may bring about both feel-good chemicals but outright hentai is rarely heartwarming.

I think this is because the dopamine high comes with a sharp edge of loneliness if it's artificially obtained and being lonely & horny at the same time is a fast track into feelings of hopelessness and depression. This splitting of the anima into constituent appeals is clearly shown in Final Fantasy VII where you have Tifa Lockheart (busty miniskirt brawler girl) and Aerith Gainsborough (flower shop girl and healer) and it's a common trope, you rarely see a Pollyanna as sexualised as her counterpart Action Girl.

This also fits the black & white anima thing I mentioned earlier, of the characters mentioned in regard to that if asked me which I find more sexually attractive it's always the dark anima but if you asked me which I'd prefer to be in a long term relationship with it's always the light anima.

Which I suppose is why many guys try to have it both ways with two different women.

I've noticed the very same thing (it's curious that you caught onto that too) In fact, the same theme is present in some of the anime I posted. A lot of the time the young inexperienced boy is enamoured with the anima figure, but rejects to admit any sort of sexual attraction to her. It is most obvious in the case of Ah My Goddess!, where a big part of the plot is other characters trying to get them to 'do stuff' while the boy doesn't wanna think of her that way.

It seems like when the Anima is a mystical, goddess archetype, the desire toward her isn't sexual (it may even feel sinful to think of it that way) but more of an embracing. In other cases where that sort of magic is missing, then the anima figures readily become sexual.

I've wondered why this is. The male libido, from my experience, is divided into two parts in which the sexual element and the emotional element can exist entirely separately. In some cases that I've seen, having their sense of sexuality separated from their emotions can also contributes to a male's ability to sex-on-the-side without truly feeling like it's betrayal to those they love.

Inversely, I've seen the female libido connects sex and emotions at least more closely on average. Some of the things that result is the inability to enjoy sex or orgasm if there's no emotional element in it. While guys can orgasm just fine without having an emotional investment.

 

[Auburn]

Are there archetypes for animus as well?

Animus
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[bimgx=500]http://i.imgur.com/fbdrWBz.jpg[/bimgx]
Gai Tsutsugami


[bimgx=500]http://i.imgur.com/FSGMQl7.gif[/bimgx]
Karasu
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The character of the Animus is still something I'm learning about, but these two seem solid examples to me. I should explain what I mean though, as not just any 'strong' brawny male character of a show is an animus figure. It's not just that they're "manly" and have guns and muscles and ego/confidence. Those aren't necessarily animus traits. It is more of a silent, diehard loyalty and protective instinct toward their loved ones, as well as a cool demeanor of unwavering resolve.

[bimgx=500]http://i.imgur.com/69exW08.jpg[/bimgx]
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Women sometimes embody their animus, too, curiously. In Pulla Magi Madoka Magica, Homura is a female character who begins to embody her animus and become a silent, cool-headed guardian of Madoka, who herself ends up embodying the anima goddess archetype at the very end. Her fate ends up very similar to Rei Ayanami, becoming a source of love that spans across all space/time and brings rest to weary hearts.

It seems that independent of what gender is playing the role, ....the central drama of the Anima & Animus is between the cherished/protected, and the unwavering protector.

[bimgx=500]http://i.imgur.com/84CpRvM.jpg[/bimgx]
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Another perfect example of the Animus archeype embodied through a female is Teresa of the Faint Smile, from Claymore. She is the epitome of the Animus personality, even moreso than Gai Tsutsugami. You have to see the anime to get a good sense of her character, but it's just so completely comforting in its resolve. Even just watching the anime I felt I could trust the character; like literally, even though it's a fictional character.

 

[PhoenixRising]

Asuka is a more sophisticated case, as she represents what seems in the mind of Shinji as an actual women. Irritating, difficult, intimidating, obtrusive, pushy. This speaks something about Shinji, as real women don't always take this role.

But who is by far the strongest and purest symbol of the anima is Rei Ayanami. From the beginning of the show, Rei is an inhuman-like creature. That is to say, if one looks closely her psychology doesn't make 'sense' in how psychology typically manifests in humans. She has no personality.

This is a very fascinating topic ^^

What you've described above about Shinji's perception of women does indeed say something specific about his psychology. Jung wrote of the different evolutions of the Anima as they are outlined here:

Spoiler

Jung believed anima development has four distinct levels, which he named Eve, Helen, Mary and Sophia. In broad terms, the entire process of anima development in a male is about the male subject opening up to emotionality, and in that way a broader spirituality, by creating a new conscious paradigm that includes intuitive processes, creativity and imagination, and psychic sensitivity towards himself and others where it might not have existed previously.

Eve
The first is Eve, named after the Genesis account of Adam and Eve. It deals with the emergence of a male's object of desire.

Helen
The second is Helen, an allusion to Helen of Troy in Greek mythology. In this phase, women are viewed as capable of worldly success and of being self-reliant, intelligent and insightful, even if not altogether virtuous. This second phase is meant to show a strong schism in external talents (cultivated business and conventional skills) with lacking internal qualities (inability for virtue, lacking faith or imagination).

Mary
The third phase is Mary, named after the Christian theological understanding of the Virgin Mary (Jesus' mother). At this level, females can now seem to possess virtue by the perceiving male (even if in an esoteric and dogmatic way), in as much as certain activities deemed consciously unvirtuous cannot be applied to her.

Sophia
The fourth and final phase of anima development is Sophia, named after the Greek word for wisdom. Complete integration has now occurred, which allows females to be seen and related to as particular individuals who possess both positive and negative qualities. The most important aspect of this final level is that, as the personification "Wisdom" suggests, the anima is now developed enough that no single object can fully and permanently contain the images to which it is related.

(full article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anima_and_animus)

Shinji appears to be in the early stages of the development of his Anima during most of the series (Eve, Helen = Rei, Asuka), and doesn't seem to reach the final stage of evolution by the end.

(Neon Genesis Evangelion = New Beginning Gospel.. Gospel of the New Beginning. Perhaps one of the intentions behind the plot was to demonstrate the emergence of a male's desire for the female? It does seem to be a main point of the series.)

~~~~​

As for the Animus, from my experience.. in the early stages of his evolution he does tend to be a two-dimensional character (much like Karasu and Gai). But by the final evolution, he takes the form of the Universal embodiment of "Male" and of "Wisdom". He has an all-knowing quality in addition to his protective, loyal and coveting attributes. As is mentioned in the article, he takes the role of helpful guide, leading a woman through the unconscious in order to discover her deeper personality.

 

[Cognisant]

Of interest to me is how males go about embodying their light/dark split anima.

This is just wild speculation but I think a lot of guys end up picking a side, they either embrace the loving/caring light anima or the sexual/aggresive dark anima.

Embodying the light anima can make a guy capable of being loving & nurturing but it's also a desire to be loved and nurtured, this is the classic meek Shinji like personality, he just wants to be loved but nobody really wants to love him.

Likewise embodying the dark anima can make a guy sexually confident and assertive, however it comes at the price of objectifying women and a certain degree of high functioning sociopathy. This is more like James Bond or Asuka, in both cases their pride is dependant upon their competence at their profession, in their own way they're both desperate to climb the social hierarchy due to a deep insecurity.

They also both see being high in this hierarchy as a way of gaining entitlement, Bond is an asshole when his pride gets the better of him and dosen't really regret using women as disposable playthings, after all it's all okay if he save the day right? Likewise Asuka knows that as long as she's the no.1 eva pilot she can get away with just about anything.

Embodying either anima is just a different perspective on the same problem, the light anima perspective is restricted to individuals and so a guy thinks "if only I can express my love to her she will love me for it" only to be crushed by the reality that women want more than just some guy to love them. Hence the scene in Ergo Proxy where the angelic cloned Re-L Mayer seemingly rejects the guy for no other reason than his love simply wasn't enough.

On the other hand the dark anima is the broad perspective which has the guy thinking "people are attracted to successful people so the more successful I am the easier getting laid will be" except most women can't be bought (prestige is a currency of sorts) and those that can tend to make poor life partners.

I suppose it all comes down to the fact that there's no simple answer to "what women want" except maybe "everything" so the unhealthy relationship many guys have with their anima is actually a result of falling short of society's collective animus of what a man should be.

A real man should be confident and assertive yet caring and gentle, able to bring the world to heel without using force, for example The Doctor from Doctor Who, if the doe-eyed Pollyanna's of anime are goddesses then he is a god.

Edit: In case you're wondering why I used Asuka as an example I think women split their anima too.

 

[TimeAsylums]

would enjoy seeing some speculation as to how this relates to Gender

 

[Cognisant]

Well it's a divide between self and other, we primarily perceive people of the same gender as just different versions of ourselves which developes into a more accurate perception of individual differences with maturity. For the other gender this is harder, particularly for guys hence the cultural tendency to regard the minds of women as ineffable mysteries whereas they figure us out pretty quickly in part due to the prevalence of fiction to delve into archtypes of male psychology.

However for women this can be a problem too as a lack of sensible role models and the prevelance of male dominated media results in them adopting the same neurosis of splitting the anima, giving them a divided sense of womanhood. I'm not sure exactly how this plays out but the result seems to be embodying either side causing the woman in question to desire exclusively men who have made the same choice, resulting in either a string of meaningless sexual encounters or failed romances.

Men are frustrated by falling short of a godly time travelling Doctor but as far as I can tell women don't even have an equivalent, I can't think of a single female character who is both comfortable in her sexuality and her capacity for love both in the romantic & caring/nurturing sense.

 

[Auburn]

@TimeAsylum - I found this article useful.

Androgyny and the Contra Sexuality

The psyche is such that it contains and embraces both the feminine and masculine. It is inherently an androgynous entity regardless of what the gender of the physical person is. The personality or persona naturally takes on the gender role that you are born to physically. Not always, as we know, but this is the general default orientation. Women take on a feminine role and persona. Men take on a masculine role and persona.

The psyche compensates for this by birthing a contra sexuality in the inner life of the person. So: Women have a contra sexuality which is masculine in nature and this is called the Animus. Men have a contra sexuality which is feminine in nature and this is called the Anima.

The above is where today in using Jung’s definitions in this way we may injure certain gender sensitivities. And beyond that let me say I agree that these strict and traditional classifications are not universally applicable. However for the sake of explaining these concepts, it is easier if we start with these classical definitions(...)

So I think if we consider we each have a masculine and feminine self, then we see that whichever part of ourselves is repressed will be the one that becomes our anima or animus - I suspect. Jung wrote his theory primarily in a time when gender roles were very strong, but I think in modern times it can be said that the dynamic is reversed in some individuals -- depending on gender identification.

~~||~~
​

In myself I have consulted my inner world and found that most all parts of my psyche are female. It's not something I decided consciously. I have a feminine mind. When I try to interact with my inner voices as though they were male it feels wrong. But when I give them a female name or personification, it feels like that's how it's meant to be. I can suddenly relate to them perfectly. There is an immediate sense/feeling of rightness that is hard to quantify in words.

Largely being fearful of showing my inner self irl, since 2008 the internet has become a sort of experiment for me in which I allowed my Anima to guide me into more sensitive terrain and explore my own irrational side. I've made several female accounts on other forums to see how i felt about being perceived as female altogether. I found that I didn't mind whatsoever..

@Cog - This might also be why you've called me INFP often times. ^^ And why other forum members think I might be NiFe.

 

[TimeAsylums]

@TimeAsylum - I found this article useful.

Out of all your work, I have found your thoughts on gender to be the most insightful (well, your visual works on type are good too, quick splurge: best article I ever read on CogType was how NiSe vs NeSi picks up visual information...but I digress)...

You made an *EXCELLENT* post on type and sexuality awhile ago in some gender thread, it specifically related to me because you brought up how you speculated how Ne types might be more likely to question or identify as "bisexual, however, instead of physical it would be because "they didn't want to rule out any possibilities" (the fact that you think I'm an ESTP is irrelevant, so let's just assume I'm ENTP for these matters )

Anyway, A friend asked me the other day what my "gender identity" was, and I point blank went... "uh...what?" I looked up a lot of stuff, and read through all of our gender threads, took some stupid online tests, I entirely identify with "androgyne." (either genderless OR both almost half half)

(the "If you woke up one morning and were the opposite sex" thread was cool too)

But at that point I realized that I didn't "Identify" with a "gender" rigorously as much as other people did, *actually* I was missing the point that people really do identify with one gender a LOT (perhaps why males are so attached to their masculinity; macho etc), but I vary.

oops, not trying to make the thread about me, but I just wanted to offer my input


Summary(tl;dr): you're spot on about your speculations (IMO)

 

[DelusiveNinja]

So I think if we consider we each have a masculine and feminine self, then we see that whichever part of ourselves is repressed will be the one that becomes our anima or animus - I suspect. Jung wrote his theory primarily in a time when gender roles were very strong, but I think in modern times it can be said that the dynamic is reversed in some individuals -- depending on gender identification.

I have a hunch that there exist a spectrum. When people fall too strongly on one end of the spectrum it is more likely that their anima/animus will manifest in their minds.

I'm still trying to grasp the concept - I have to watch some anime, read some articles, and notice some patterns on this week off work. However, I think that what is being suggested is that the anima/animus may manifest in an individual in three ways.

To simply state my current understanding of where the anima/animus can be viewed:

1. A conscious rigid worldview/attitude or outlook on life and the way one should act.
2. An subconscious caricature or impetus that manifest in dreams/fantasies and when decision making.
3. An subconscious attraction to a certain flavor of person.

And why other forum members think I might be NiFe.

What does this suggest about how people may view NiFe users?

And speaking of Fe, does the anima/animus have anything to do with the shades of Fe you have said to exist (i.g. bipolarity, polarized, negative)?

 

[Pyropyro]

@OP Great posts. Are there any examples of male anime/manga characters that successfully integrated their anima to their lives? I think Teresa of the Faint Smile is the animus counterpart for these types of male characters.

 

[Auburn]

@Ninja -
That's a good way to sum it up. The anima/animus is something people can come to embody themselves (this is more rare), something they idealize/fantasize about (or are tormented in dreams about), or an unconscious sense that leads them subtly in their relationships.

I can think of an example of the third in... teens and young adults falling into certain relationships before they really know themselves. Perhaps confident, asshole-ish males attract young teen girls because of a crude projection of their animus? I can't speak for them but I've heard stories of this sort.

Often times what leads us into a relationship isn't just how nice a person seems, how compatible they are with our likes... but it's some phantasmal gravitation and 'sense' of what they represent. I know I've gotten into a relation of this sort before, where the appeal was not only their personality but attributes of my anima-idealization that i recognized, and fell for.

High-level romance, the sort where you go head over heels, is something of a bliss precisely because it follows from this unconscious, phantasmal sense. It feels ideal. It is the fantasy of the psyche, expressing itself in outer form, which is why it seems so utterly perfect at first, and why it inevitably falls apart, because it was a fantasy-projection.

Which begs the question as to why we have this inborn unrealistic concept of the other sex which, like a magnet, sucks us into chasing a romance with them... in the first place.

I've thought about this from an evolutionary standpoint and thus far it makes sense to me for the unconscious to have an in-built notion of what the other sex will be like and to chase after them. It doesn't have to be realistic. That's not the point. The point is to get people to copulate.

(gosh, i can ramble.. >.< )

ps. but was just trying to provide more perspective of anima/animus to help out. ^^ Anime marathon, yay! Go for it!

Fairytales and myths are the expression of our psychic fantasy.
Of our unconscious drives, dramas, and hopes.

Burying your nose into a fantasy novel, is one very direct way to engage the unconscious. You feel resonance with certain figures (the wise old man, the goddess, the shadow/evil, the pure-hearted) because of what they mean to you as a human. You become more in touch with those aspects of yourself.

Anime is a modern medium of telling fairytales. Western animation is largely just for amusement, but Japan is quite psychologically-oriented in their animation.

 

[DelusiveNinja]

Aoi Bungaku Series - No Longer Human, by Osamu Dazai (episode 1–4)

Side Note: This is a personal favorite of mine for the music and atmosphere of this series. The whole series has some pretty interesting examples of anima/animus. Especially, Sakura no Mori no Mankai no Shita, where a forest bandit finds a beautiful maiden in the forest and takes her to be his wife.

Spoiler

[bimgx=500]http://sheiswatching.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/aoi-no-longer-human-4.png[/bimgx]

Spoiler

[bimgx=500]http://intpforum.com/picture.php?albumid=299&pictureid=2329[/bimgx]

Spoiler

[bimgx=500]https://peterburd.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/aoibungaku2.jpg?w=595[/bimgx]

Spoiler

[bimgx=500]http://intpforum.com/picture.php?albumid=299&pictureid=2328l[/bimgx]

The main character has lived throughout his whole life feeling misplaced and alienated from society. At some point during his alienation, he found out that he could be accepted if he were to play the fool. In class he would perform blunders purposely to feel a faint sense of acceptance through the laughter he would generate. This method for relating to others lasted until his identity crisis caught up with him. He attempted a double suicide with a lady he had met and failed to die.

After that, his delusions increased. His "true self" (the animus) materialized out of his unconscious imagery as a small shadow haunting him, causing anxiety and trouble.

Similar to what Jung describes for himself, the main character had an image shown to him in his youth that "developed" over time into a monster that embodied something that was being repressed within his subconscious - his true self.

*does a 360 degree turn in spinny chair*

 

[EyeSeeCold]

@Auburn
I'm genuinely grateful for this thread, I didn't know anima/animus could be this interesting. I have couple of questions I'd like to ask if you don't mind.


1. What do you think of the similarity between anima/animus and Freud's oedipus complex/Jung's* electra complex? Is there any overlap or complementary processes going on?

2. Since Jung developed his theories in the in the early-to-mid 1900s, I assume there wasn't a lot of consideration for homosexual and bisexual orientations in humans. Have you read or observed anything to suggest that one's anima/animus is strictly determined by being male/female, respectively?

edit: I think #2 is covered by post #19

 

[TimeAsylums]

2. Since Jung developed his theories in the in the early-to-mid 1900s, I assume there wasn't a lot of consideration for homosexual and bisexual orientations in humans. Have you read or observed anything to suggest that one's anima/animus is strictly determined by being male/female, respectively?

Don't mean to steal from Auburn, just throwing it in

Can't remember which *exact* book I was reading but Jung was just as prone to thinking homosexuality was a disease just like everyone else <- except that he thought it was psychological. Will throw it in if I just randomly remember the name or find the passage. (shouldn't be surprising given the time)

 

[Kuu]

1. What do you think of the similarity between anima/animus and Freud's oedipus complex/Jung's* electra complex? Is there any overlap or complementary processes going on?

I wanted to talk about this so maybe I'm going to have to jump in.

Particularly in NGE, there are many psychological aspects one could interpret. There is a secondary focus on Gendou's relationship to Yui, and through Rei it comes full circle for Shinji into a serious Oedipus complex. Shinji hates Gendou for abandoning him, and furthermore for Rei's closeness to him. It is the essence of that anima search that drives the whole series, both Gendou's motivation, Shinji's conflict with Gendou, and Shinji's conflict with everyone else.

Furthermore, Auburn for some reason left out Ritsuko, who has in a different way than Asuka, serious mommy issues. She too engages in a sort of Elektra complex, becoming a lover of her mother's lover... and it can also be argued that Gendou could actually be her father. The Magi computers, immortalizing Ritsuko's mother, are also themselves divided into archetypes: woman, mother, and scientist. One could argue Ritsuko overemphasizes her scientist side after being scorned as woman and mother...

 

[Auburn]

@Auburn
I'm genuinely grateful for this thread, I didn't know anima/animus could be this interesting. I have couple of questions I'd like to ask if you don't mind.

1. What do you think of the similarity between anima/animus and Freud's oedipus complex/Jung's* electra complex? Is there any overlap or complementary processes going on?

Oh, hehe. ^^;
Truth is I know close to nothing about the Oedipus/Electra complexes, aside from the theoretical >.<. I'm curious, maybe you could enlighten me - do you have any experience with them / how do you see the concepts?

From what I've read though, and as stated in the OP:

[the Anima] is not an invention of the conscious, but a spontaneous production of the unconscious; neither is she a substitute figure for the mother. On the contrary, there is every likelihood that those numinous attributes which make the Mother imago so dangerously powerful derive from the collective archetype, the anima, which is incarnated anew in every male child.
​

Jung writes elsewhere too that our first concept of the Anima (our concept of 'woman') is largely shaped by our mother; the experience we have with them. So if we consider how this might translate into a sexual theme later in life, we can get a sense of how an Oedipus complex may form from the Mother-Anima - especially if some trauma in childhood is causing an unresolved fixation with their mother. In other words, it may essentially be an unhealthy projection of the Anima onto one's mother.

But we see that few males really do sexually fixate on their mother. Which supports the notion that the Oedipus complex is just that, a complex. In other words, a circumstance that transpires within certain individuals due to a maladaptation of the psyche, leading to this erroneous projection -- and less of an actual, inevitable stage in development, as Freud would have us believe.

I've not gathered too much support for this yet but from what I have read/seen it seems that the Oedipus/Electra complex arises where there was some unnatural sexual relationship with the parent; either early sexual abuse, sexual depreciation/rejection, etc. The developmental stages halt and don't move forward due to that unresolved issue.

~~~
​

The anima is a more timeless relationship that a male has to all womankind (via his own womanness), and less dependent on circumstance or nature.

If we were to take Freud's interpretation, then since a child's anima-concept forms in the early years with the mother's influence, and then often manifests an affinity for the traits of the mother in other women... one could argue that an adolescent boy's affinity for his first same-age anima-crush (that has mommy's traits) is an extension of his attraction to his mother. Essentially, he's seeking sexuality with his mother via how those traits are identified in other females.

But if we don't think of it that way (i.e. placing the Mother as the central relationship, from which all others follow) but instead see the mother as just the first embodiment of the Anima in most cases -- which is the actual core relationship from which all others follow -- then we see a different story. One that makes more sense to me.

This just relates to the lover-fixation on the parent and how I think the anima/animus play in. But I also think that the relation one has to their mother/father is a complex matter in itself, with more factors involved that aren't encompassed strictly by the anima/animus.

 

[Auburn]

Furthermore, Auburn for some reason left out Ritsuko, who has in a different way than Asuka, serious mommy issues. She too engages in a sort of Elektra complex, becoming a lover of her mother's lover... and it can also be argued that Gendou could actually be her father. The Magi computers, immortalizing Ritsuko's mother, are also themselves divided into archetypes: woman, mother, and scientist. One could argue Ritsuko overemphasizes her scientist side after being scorned as woman and mother...

Interesting post! I totally failed to mention the parental-relationship elements going on in the series. ^^; I didn't even remember Ritsuko. Looking back I do see a blatant psychic interplay trying to resolve itself in the mind of Ritsuko and also in Gendou. Each with different reasons?

I wonder why you might think Gendou is so distant from Shinji, or why he seems to almost have an attraction towards Rei (and Rei to him).

I'm curious in general as to what you and ESC both think about the relation a child has to their parents. I know at least that that's when the child gauges how safe the world is -- and the relation to the parent, if one without security/acceptance, leads to the same disposition toward all people.. but surely there's a lot more. *will also do some more reading*


edit:

The Magi computers, immortalizing Ritsuko's mother...

Yes, she never really died, in the mind of Ritsuko, did she. It was as if her shadow always hovered over her, and she ever-despised her (never having gotten the care from her she wanted). This is very telling, and well portrayed by the authors, as often what people represented in our minds lingers far after their death.

After not being 'enough' for her mother, she then develops a taste for Gendou. I wonder if it was out of envy. Out of envy for what her mother had. Perhaps trying to get back some of that kindness, through him? ..Yet she hated him.

All that, only to have her mother still choose him over her in the end, leading to her death.

 

[Auburn]

@OP Great posts. Are there any examples of male anime/manga characters that successfully integrated their anima to their lives?

[bimgx=500]http://i.imgur.com/kGVAenn.jpg[/bimgx]
​

The seventeenth angel in NGE comes to mind, Kaworu Nagisa. But he was a sort of mix between the anima/animus (or definitely some phantasmal, archetypal figure). He was soft and tender and ever-loving toward Shinji for no apparent reason, and with an irrevocable surety. In a way, he was the dual of Rei. While Rei wanted merging with all, he wanted Shinji and explicitly expressed a singularity toward him. These are generally more animus-like traits... traits of the pursuer... and that fits with him being male.

But in either case I don't think he fits as an example of an actualized male; only an archetype. I can't think of any that really fit the bill.

Outside of Anime, Jesus Christ strikes me as someone who -- if they were a real person/male -- would have an integrated Anima. A lot of jokes exist about him being gay, or hitting on his disciples. There certainly is an effeminate quality to him, and he does display the universal anima's sensitivity and receptiveness to all emotions and all people. He is almost mother-like. While God-the-Father is more of... well, the father. But Christ has a lot of representations to humanity, which I don't know the half of, and it's a complex topic I'm unread on... so I digress!

(I've no idea what I'm talking about.)

// i haven't written this much in a long time (triple post, ftw?) will start slowing down now

 

[Pyropyro]

[bimgx=500]http://i.imgur.com/kGVAenn.jpg[/bimgx]
​

The seventeenth angel in NGE comes to mind, Kaworu Nagisa. But he was a sort of mix between the anima/animus (or definitely some phantasmal, archetypal figure). He was soft and tender and ever-loving toward Shinji for no apparent reason, and with an irrevocable surety. In a way, he was the dual of Rei. While Rei wanted merging with all, he wanted Shinji and explicitly expressed a singularity toward him. These are generally more animus-like traits... traits of the pursuer... and that fits with him being male.

I think he's the Lover archetype, the mature masculine form which overcomes/masters feelings. He wants to pursue Shinji who is still the Oedipal Child, the immature emotional form that sorely needs the feminine energy of the Mother (Rei) and help him develop his masculinity. In a way Rei and Kaworu are the opposite of each other since they pull that woobie in two different directions.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I haven't watched Neon Genesis Evangelion so I had to wiki the characters and I don't fully grasp some of the statements about them.

The anima is a more timeless relationship that a male has to all womankind (via his own womanness), and less dependent on circumstance or nature.

If we were to take Freud's interpretation, then since a child's anima-concept forms in the early years with the mother's influence, and then often manifests an affinity for the traits of the mother in other women... one could argue that an adolescent boy's affinity for his first same-age anima-crush (that has mommy's traits) is an extension of his attraction to his mother. Essentially, he's seeking sexuality with his mother via how those traits are identified in other females.

But if we don't think of it that way (i.e. placing the Mother as the central relationship, from which all others follow) but instead see the mother as just the first embodiment of the Anima in most cases -- which is the actual core relationship from which all others follow -- then we see a different story. One that makes more sense to me.

But we see that few males really do sexually fixate on their mother. Which supports the notion that the Oedipus complex is just that, a complex. In other words, a circumstance that transpires within certain individuals due to a maladaptation of the psyche, leading to this erroneous projection -- and less of an actual, inevitable stage in development, as Freud would have us believe.

Hmm. I understand the complexes as mother/father attachment → attraction → competition with same gender (→ identification / displacement → attraction to other gender → healthy relationship attachment).

It would seem that the mother could indeed influence a male's anima early on, during the attachment/attraction stage of a child's development. However as you say, the presence of a maladaptation is what would keep the male fixated on the mother's quality/negative emotional influence and prevent him from discovering other females and the diversity/maturity of the feminine character.

At first I was confused how could a healthy, appropriately nurturing mother produce a child that had a developed anima/feminine side, yet still was attracted to his mother's qualities. But now I see that the main component of the complexes are unresolved issues with attachment/attraction, so valuing the specific traits of your mother in your partner/life is a whole different thing than being emotionally or psychosexually attached to the mother figure or social role in an unhealthy way.

 

[Pyropyro]

[bimgx=300]http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121108215055/hokuto/images/5/55/Toki-profile.jpg[/bimgx]

I've been searching for an anime/manga guy that has successfully integrated his anima since my last post here.

I found Toki of the Fist of the North Star. He's also known by the fans as "Kung-Fu Jesus".

This is one of the most compassionate and sensitive guys in the franchise. Perhaps only the protagonist Ken ranks a close second to him.

His fighting style also reflects his personality. While his brothers' techniques "merely" focuses their techniques on making their enemies explode, Toki's style gives his victims as sense of bliss before well, exploding. He also uses this style to cure others even if he can't cure himself from radiation sickness.

If provoked, Toki does kick serious ass but he usually prefer to do so out of self-defense. He did challenge his brother Raoh, the main antagonist to a martial arts duel not because of anger but because of a promise to kill Raoh once he fell from grace.

Aside from expressing these traits, I think he's one of the few supporting characters that aren't enamored by Ken's fiancee Yuria. Yuria seems to be the "Mary" archetype that the various martial artists of the Fist of the North Star strive to be with.

 

[PhoenixRising]

Reading through the discussion so far, I wanted to add to a couple of the concepts presented:

1. On the question about homosexuality.. As far as I've studied, there has been no observed case of a male with an Animus nor a female with an Anima - the physics of psychology seem to dictate that one's soul is of the opposing gender to one's self. I do recall that Jung referred to homosexuality as a psychological illness of sorts, as was mentioned earlier. But I believe this is because, from a Jungian standpoint, someone who's sense of self takes the form of the opposite gender would be possessed by the Anima/Animus archetype. Jung describes his interpretation of possession as a phenomenon where one's psychology is taken over by a subconscious entity (including Anima, Animus, Mother, Father, Wise Old Man, Wise Old Woman, Self and Shadow). He describes possession by the Shadow as what has been commonly mistook for demon possession, and possession by the Anima as a male who is potentially overly-intellectual, moody and illogical, self-destructive esp. in relationships, or effeminate/homosexual.


2.

Outside of Anime, Jesus Christ strikes me as someone who -- if they were a real person/male -- would have an integrated Anima.

This seems like an educated view of the concept of Christ, as Jung does describe him as the archetype of the fully actualized, or "Ascended" Self. Being a fully actualized and whole human, Christ would be conscious of all of his traits, including those associated with the Anima. The interesting thing that Jung points out is that Christ represents the conscious awareness of previously unconscious content through his separation between, as well as simultaneous awareness of, good/evil, spirit/body (unconscious/conscious), unitemporal/eternal and unique/universal. As he describes, the fully actualized Self would be aware of all of these aspects as legitimate parts of their identity simultaneously.