That annoying sense of superiority

[Trebuchet]

...I just realized that, on this forum, I am going to have to proofread every post 20 times before I hit the submit button. But I guess that is really not too much of a stretch for me, being that I am a perpetual self-analyst and critic.

I have found that 4 times is sufficient. Three times to get everything correct and then one more after posting it, because of the thing I missed. 20 seems like overkill to me.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

I feel this way when people talk about their fad diets, their homeopathic treatments and how they're proud and savvy because they didn't vaccinate their child......


After thinking it over... I feel justified.

 

[the_s_rabbit]

LOL, S_rabbit. Maybe you should proofread about 30 times.

 

[Otherside]

Life has a way of throwing all sorts of humbling situations your way, so don't sweat it.

 

[Otherside]

Fantastic response!

 

[opheliaesque]

^ Fyeah.

Well, maybe the correlation between the times when I feel arrogance and when I notice grammar mistakes wasn't what I was going for. Pssh. I've grown one step above perpetual cynicism but still one step below something more... er... socially healthy.

 

[Particle]

When I start to space out while typing, I find I often start picking whatever word makes the sound that is in my head. While I definitely know the difference between words like "you're" and "your" or "its" and "it's", I start making those mistakes when not paying my full attention.

I doubt I'm alone in this.

Ultimately, it hardly matters. So long as you make a half-assed effort, the person reading your post will receive what you were trying to communicate. A lot of syntax decisions are also stylistic choice. One person may bitch about it being incorrect while another one doesn't see a problem with it. There is no authoritative body for the English language, so there isn't really "right vs wrong" so much as there is "socially accepted as nominal vs odd enough to be bitched about".

 

[GYX_Kid]

OPhelia, your makeing a post about a concept which you're belief in and feeling about, is based off a norm that society decided before u did. so y feel elite other than the fact that this right nao only LOOks ridiculous

I call Si compartmentalized identification on the whole topic

^ that second line was harder to understand the meaning of

 

[AlisaD]

Most people feel the need to consider themselves superior to others. Depending on our abilities and values, we will base the feeling of superiority on our achievements, or our taste, our sense of style, our looks, our intelligence, or in the OP's case - the ability to tell the difference between "your" and "you're".
Personally, I'd feel a bit sad if I had to milk that feeling out of such a minor skill. Plus, I'm gorgeous, so I don't have to

 

[GYX_Kid]

Personally, I'd feel a bit sad if I had to milk that feeling out of such a minor skill. Plus, I'm gorgeous, so I don't have to

she's also decent looking.

 

[AlisaD]

she's also decent looking.

That may very well be, but she can't match my wrinkles. I bet she doesn't even have warts. Pffft!

 

[EditorOne]

Wait, do you ride that cane or just whack people with it? Wouldn't a broom work better?

 

[Mello]

Hey there, Ophelia.

 

[AkaruiRain]

Because wordform is thinkform's worst enemy.

[And so people, wishing to describe their raw ideas, don't analyze so carefully over their words.. You get it.]

 

[Bamalam]

I have my moments of feeling superior but never has it been due to observed grammar. Language is a man made invention and therefore using it properly is simply a process of regurgitation..no critical thinking involved. At least in my opinion. Also, isnt the whole point of language to express ideas? As long as the point is conveyed....does it truly matter how its spelled/arranged? just a thought

 

[Paintzee]

I completed " The Commonly Confused Words Test" and got a "English Genius" rating. Not bad for someone who refused to take english past grade 10. Now I understand why there was no fuss at the time. This is with finding I may also have Aspergers, combined or confounded with 19 out of 20 correct on the facial expressions test. Who said people with Aspergers cannot read emotions, we just don't care. Your being watched you just don't know it, your very thoughts can be deciphered and we're all around you. Be scared be very scared. Something about the meak?

 

[snafupants]

All humans have a commensurate level of worth, which isn't saying that much without stipulating the cosmic level of one human. Anyway, yes, Barack Obama and some random Ethiopian and Alex Rodriguez and and your old school janitor and Vladimir Putin have the same existential worth. Their levels on other variables might differ but fundamentally all people are equal.

That said, I feel more intelligent folk should make decisions for society and, perhaps, be deferred to more than conventional wisdom. This notion superficially smacks of Eugenics but I am not calling for selective breeding or ethnic cleansing or anything that radical, rather I would like to see society stylized as a meritocracy instead of this commercial collective that rewards fame and athletic prowess and aggression and fake laurels and virtues. There, that sounds reasonable; please do not crucify me.

The average people have been given enough latitude and time, and achieved enough damage to the planet and one another. Perhaps it's time intelligence and competence, not popularity or money, dictated elections and politics in America. Another problem is that there are just too many people in the world; almost every global problem is exacerbated by overpopulation.

 

[Allegra]

I could care less about my grammar, I have more important things to worry about, enough said. Actually I think it's absolutely ridiculous when losing an argument over the net, for example, they jump in to correct your grammar, enough said. And yes, I probably made more than 10 grammar mistakes here, I don't care.

I edited because of a type, and yes pun was intended.

 

[AlisaD]

Wait, do you ride that cane or just whack people with it? Wouldn't a broom work better?

I just whack people with it.
I ride an ostrich, thank you very much

 

[sti_lin]

I am the best! Oh wait, there is always someone more intelligent out there. Where do we draw the line? Correcting typos for grammar and spelling when the sentence is decipherable is an activity to feed the editor's ego. I sometimes play in the sand box myself but not too often. I also don't proof read 99% of my forum posts, this one included

 

[Lydia]

Grammar mistakes do not bother me. That is all.

*yawn* ---just in case.

 

[angelika]

i get what you mean. it drives me crazy too. idk, maybe some ppl are just lazy or something or they just make mistakes. i dont really get it. it just seems like NO. THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. WHY WOULD YOU EVEN SAY THAT. but idk. also, im VERY much INTP, but i grew up in a stupidass religion that damaged my psyche for many years. Its like it delayed my abilities to effectively communicate as well as properly learn. I know thats probably not most ppl but there are those random cases of random crap that has happened yet the person still has that overall personality

 

[Hadoblado]

It's strange because I get a similar sense of superiority when someone pulls me up on a typo. I figure that the thoughts of someone so desparate for a sense of self-worth that they would bring attention to the least vertically challenged of my short-comings in order to obtain that feeling of self-worth could not possibly be capable of producing the amazing people thoughts that I experience.
tl:dr - I have big shortcomings, if my grammar is the only one you are capable of perceiving then your shortcomings far outway my own.

A also associate spelling nazism with senser types; given the complete lack of anything vaguely conceptual about the largely arbitrary set of rules and exceptions the English language consists of, I have zero understanding of how an intuitive could give a fuck of any size. Does anyone else think/feel the same?

 

[opheliaesque]

A also associate spelling nazism with senser types; given the complete lack of anything vaguely conceptual about the largely arbitrary set of rules and exceptions the English language consists of, I have zero understanding of how an intuitive could give a fuck of any size. Does anyone else think/feel the same?

If it's scattered everywhere and obstructs understanding of a certain text, then yes, I tend to give fucks.

Are you saying

that the

signs and systems that make up a language

is not conceptual/ a concept?

I wouldn't mind becoming more of a sensor type, actually. I'm often lacking when it comes to details, and being more observant to my surroundings would help a lot.

ALL DESE SUBTEXTUAL PERSONAL ATTACKS, PSH.

 

[The Gopher]

Munkey made me fix my grammar in that regard... but I still have the english capacity of a 12 year old. In fact most of my emotions are also at a 12 year old's standard... oh wait that's because I am 12 years old...


On a serious side I don't have one.

I like being reminded that I am a genius... But just in general the sense might be there.

 

[shrub77]

When I was younger(5-12), I did have a superiority complex, but as I get older, i am slowly moving to a neutral position. Every person has an experience and knowledge specific to them, it would be wrong to judge them on intelligence.

 

[intpz]

I don't give a shit what people think or say about me, I do know that I'm generally smarter than most of the people I meet, and I do not show off. Am I a mental?

 

[Chronomar]

Eh. I tend to do whatever seems natural for me. Normally I write with okay-spelling and grammar.

However, I consider inventing words and using non-'textbook' grammar constructions to be permissible. They really should even be encouraged in English and in every other language where inventiveness works. It's going to happen anyway.

It is easier to just do it all the time than make the pointless effort switching depending on the scenario. Maybe my mother being an editor and a bit overzealous with "education" had an effect.

I judge people when they can't tell the difference between "your" and "you're" and I'm wondering why, in an INTP forum, there are so many of you who use it incorrectly. Somehow I got the notion that INTPs should be able to use correct grammar in my head, because of this presumed intelligence that we have. So being able to write at least pseudo-intelligently should be second nature to INTPs, right?
So then I'm questioning you being anything like an INTP. Then I question whether I'm just an asshat.

I think INTPs go one of two ways: almost always grammar correct or don't-give-any-fucks. Usually both, but more the later than the former, are conscious decisions, even if they are based out of that elusive "mood of the day" that we rarely actually pick up on in ourselves, let alone understand.

Wear your asshat proudly, btw. It's "cool" here.

Anyone else get that nagging sense of self-righteousness whenever they come across something like this? I'm pegging this off as emotional immaturity, despite knowing that it's immature to feel this way, because INTP =/= superior. imeanwhaticonfusemyself.

EDIT: typo. lmao.

Nope, I get this whole cycle regularly, among many other "self-righteous assumption --> doubt --> reconsideration --> doubt of need to reconsider / validity of the reconsideration --> return to the self-righteousness / continued doubt --> more doubt and reconsideration...etc etc.

There is a reason why this is an oft-used smiley:

EDIT: but I would also like to throw out there that some may be dyslexic, which from the experience of watching my dyslexic INTP sister give up completely on "spelling" or "grammar" (to the point of spelling our names wrong ...), seems to have a big effect.

 

[Chronomar]

@snafupants

Wow. That is beautiful.

I struggled for a while with this topic. Mostly it was "ethics" versus "functionality/logic" which is one battle that never gets won with me. Either morality/ethics and functionality/logic have to be on the same side or nobody wins. Luckily logically there should always exist that perfect "side" for them both to be on.

More recently I had settled on "intelligence / functionality as a human (based on self-actualization levels and a few other dimensions) should determine the worth of any given person, and we should adjust our ethical systems and decisions accordingly."

I think you're getting at a better more fully-considered answer here. So yeah.

All humans have a commensurate level of worth, which isn't saying that much without stipulating the cosmic level of one human. Anyway, yes, Barack Obama and some random Ethiopian and Alex Rodriguez and and your old school janitor and Vladimir Putin have the same existential worth. Their levels on other variables might differ but fundamentally all people are equal.

That said, I feel more intelligent folk should make decisions for society and, perhaps, be deferred to more than conventional wisdom. This notion superficially smacks of Eugenics but I am not calling for selective breeding or ethnic cleansing or anything that radical, rather I would like to see society stylized as a meritocracy instead of this commercial collective that rewards fame and athletic prowess and aggression and fake laurels and virtues. There, that sounds reasonable; please do not crucify me.

The average people have been given enough latitude and time, and achieved enough damage to the planet and one another. Perhaps it's time intelligence and competence, not popularity or money, dictated elections and politics in America. Another problem is that there are just too many people in the world; almost every global problem is exacerbated by overpopulation.

 

[Chronomar]

Stephen Fry, a man we can all respect, has something to say about this "grammar-nazi" stuff :

Stephen Fry Kinetic Typography - Language - YouTube

I have posted here three times and feel ridiculous, but ... complete agreement, this is the best way to say it, props of the highest order to Stephen Fry. Near the end he brings it back around too, being fair to the idea of making an effort with language for certain circumstances, but overall just enjoying language and focusing on what really matters.

When he refers to the "old pedantic me" , it reminds me of our own INTPish cycle of self-improvement through self-doubt and reformation.

That doubt-reformation can be a positive or negative force, like most other things.

 

[Polaris]

.....Their levels on other variables might differ but fundamentally all people are equal.

....That said, I feel more intelligent folk should make decisions for society and, perhaps, be deferred to more than conventional wisdom.

....This notion superficially smacks of Eugenics but I am not calling for selective breeding or ethnic cleansing or anything that radical, rather I would like to see society stylized as a meritocracy instead of this commercial collective that rewards fame and athletic prowess and aggression and fake laurels and virtues. There, that sounds reasonable; please do not crucify me.

If that be the case, how then would the rest of us nurture our delusions of superiority?

Yes, I do agree...although this seems rather utopian (of course you knew that). I guess we can hope that society will eventually evolve through review of past shortcomings....although we haven't seemed to improve much in the stupidity-department with respect to how we select our political leaders....or any other leaders for that matter. It still seems to be the case that the loudest voices win the votes (with significant industrial/corporate lobbying to boot....hello Australia)

Spoiler

As a side note; narcissism is a growing mental affliction in Western countries, particularly in the US....and particularly amongst the female population. This would make for an interesting discussion.

.....almost every global problem is exacerbated by overpopulation.

Yes. We are like ants, but unlike ants we are also ego-ridden. Ego-ridden ants are a scary concept.

Also, I think one can usually distinguish between text written poorly by an intelligent person and text written poorly by a stupid person. The latter is definitely more irritating, and I must add, somewhat subjectively; one has the notion of reading the thoughts of a child.

Spoiler

(I will not go into the definitions of 'stupid', I merely use this term loosely (stupidly?); stupid does not necessarily mean 'unintelligent'...there's another topic I should leave alone for now.)

I have to confess to moments of grammar-nazi-esque behaviour, but usually upon more careful consideration I refer to my own inadequacy, which makes me hold my tongue. Also; pointing out unrelated "faults" never achieves much other than increased aggro. Rather, it points like a dazzling beacon to one's own moronic alter-ego.

 

[redbaron]

I think your taking this hole grammar thing a bit to seriously.

 

[Twn]

INTP individuals are assholes.

We are.

some of us make grammar mistakes on purpose, just so we can watch the other assholes come out and play.

It's fun.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Being a prescriptivist is fun, I admit. I used to spend a lot of time and energy on feeling superior. Enjoy.

"oh the irony" as they say

 

[GYX_Kid]

As a side note; narcissism is a growing mental affliction in Western countries, particularly in the US....and particularly amongst the female population. This would make for an interesting discussion.

Yes. We are like ants, but unlike ants we are also ego-ridden. Ego-ridden ants are a scary concept.

Also, I think one can usually distinguish between text written poorly by an intelligent person and text written poorly by a stupid person. The latter is definitely more irritating, and I must add, somewhat subjectively; one has the notion of reading the thoughts of a child.

The point is expressed in two separate things you said, which can be joined together. (Edit: maybe you already were making the point that follows)

There is a narcissism epidemic, causing ego-ridden ants to type and present themselves as intelligent people. People would have to see subtle nuances in their speech and overall presentation, to understand that though they follow all the rules that "intelligent people follow," there are astounding chunks missing from what would be any legitimacy; separating these posers from truly intelligent and developed humans.

Grammar nazism is elitism based on superficialities-- you don't need any real substance inside, to whip up an impressive-appearing facade.

Grammar is "rules." Intelligent individuals understand that these are merely general guidelines, and need no "bible" such as this

 

[opheliaesque]

The point is expressed in two separate things you said, which can be joined together. (Edit: maybe you already were making the point that follows)

There is a narcissism epidemic, causing ego-ridden ants to type and present themselves as intelligent people. People would have to see subtle nuances in their speech and overall presentation, to understand that though they follow all the rules that "intelligent people follow," there are astounding chunks missing from what would be any legitimacy; separating these posers from truly intelligent and developed humans.

Grammar nazism is elitism based on superficialities-- you don't need any real substance inside, to whip up an impressive-appearing facade.

Grammar is "rules." Intelligent individuals understand that these are merely general guidelines, and need no "bible" such as this

Such as yourself, then?

I don't really believe in the distinction between "intelligent, developed people" and "non-intelligent people," because the definition of intelligence is murky enough even without any clear cut segregation. Caring about the distinction between "your" and "you're" doesn't exactly make you a grammar nazi either. The intricacies of the english language is well beyond my grasp, but writing clearly has it's pragmatic benefits of clarity, meaning and thought.

That being said, even though I'm still wincing and some of the things I've written and vaguely angry at some of the responses, I'm glad this thread has sparked some pretty interesting discussion.

Still, very very unfortunately INTP to the core.

 

[Polaris]

The point is expressed in two separate things you said, which can be joined together. (Edit: maybe you already were making the point that follows)

Hmm...yes and no. I was addressing Snafu's post, and got a little side-tracked...

There is a narcissism epidemic, causing ego-ridden ants to type and present themselves as intelligent people. People would have to see subtle nuances in their speech and overall presentation, to understand that though they follow all the rules that "intelligent people follow," there are astounding chunks missing from what would be any legitimacy; separating these posers from truly intelligent and developed humans.

Well, I was pointing to the narcissism-issue as I think the superiority complex is a symptom. By thinking about the superiority-complex, I ended up with narcissism at the top of the pyramid. Pyramid implying a bottom-up effect. Which made me wonder if the feeling of superiority is what eventually leads to narcissism as a disorder...

.....thinking about Snafu's point about over-population; ants came to mind and how they seem to have developed a perfect society where every ant has a function...and how this is quite different in human society, particularly in the west, where overpopulation seems to cause problems. But then one has only to look at places like Hong-Kong and how smoothly that machine seems to be operating. And Hong-Kong people are generally Buddhist and Taoists (non-egotists).....followed by the thought that overpopulation would certainly be exacerbated if the majority of the population were highly egotistical.....but egotism does not necessarily imply narcissism...or does it? (I need to read more...)

/mess

I wasn't tying in the the factor of ego-ridden ants being delusional about their intelligence, although you have made an interesting point there. Thank you.

Grammar nazism is elitism based on superficialities-- you don't need any real substance inside, to whip up an impressive-appearing facade.

Yes I agree, but that doesn't stop the immediate and involuntary notion that someone may be of lesser intelligence if their spelling and grammar is terrible... although I'm not saying I do this; I can generally decide quickly if the individual writing the piece has some intellectual merit or not....oh shoot....I'm really struggling to avoid coming off as a snooty, pseudo-intellectual wanker here...someone will no doubt shoot me down, knowing the workings of the rebellious minds of my fellow forum-members.

I'm also aware that many people struggle with dyslexia; my ex-husband was unable to attend high-school for this reason. But he was highly intelligent, and quickly excelled in his working life (he worked on the stock-market and somehow miraculously managed to avoid much writing-work, which was his ultimate fear and sore-point).

Grammar is "rules." Intelligent individuals understand that these are merely general guidelines, and need no "bible" such as this

Yes, and as much as I abhor silly rules, I think grammatical and spelling rules are useful; I find it is easier to read a well-written piece where the natural flow of sentences lets your mind have free reigns without the jagged ambush of awkward spelling and grammar...however, everyone makes mistakes now and then and there's no reason to pick on this sort of trivia. I also find it awkward reading paragraphs where full stops are not followed by capital first letters. The content has to be really interesting for me to keep reading.

Also, if a paragraph is exceptionally well written, one can almost ignore individual words. So a typo here and there goes unnoticed.....

....but of course, not adhering to grammatical rules never harmed anyone....

...unless, of course one is attempting to impress an employer with a resume. Incorrect grammar and/or spelling could mean certain and sudden death.

 

[Noodle]

like omg no caps and no periods is cool and stuff dawg ur just a h8r why arint you gettin a lyfe speellliiinnnnggg is no cool so yeah swagg and stuff n the xtra g is silent looseeerr.

In conclusion, spelling like a pre-teen is actually loads of satirical fun.

 

[RedN]

I think a smart person can tell what the message is even with the missing e. that its a waste of time to bother correcting it? and use the time to address the message instead.

As for making the mistake... no one is perfect right? you people, some, aren't as superior as you probably think

like OCD?

 

[GYX_Kid]

Such as yourself, then?

I don't really believe in the distinction between "intelligent, developed people" and "non-intelligent people," because the definition of intelligence is murky enough even without any clear cut segregation. Caring about the distinction between "your" and "you're" doesn't exactly make you a grammar nazi either. The intricacies of the english language is well beyond my grasp, but writing clearly has it's pragmatic benefits of clarity, meaning and thought.

That being said, even though I'm still wincing and some of the things I've written and vaguely angry at some of the responses, I'm glad this thread has sparked some pretty interesting discussion.

Well no, because there was also an actual point in the post

Sorry if it seemed like I was targeting you in particular, it was more replying about what the topic had become. Point was that there are people who give grammar a little too much merit over real substance. The sentences' appearance is definitely important for communication purposes, but it can't provide everything and doesn't necessarily mean that there are going to be good points or that you can rely on/put trust in the person with good grammar.

Like if you saw a man walking around outside in his underwear. A lot of people would assume that that guy is retarded, or something, and shun him if he opened his mouth. While the sharp-dressed sociopath making good speeches gets elected as US president. (Other thread exists for that fiery debate)

**You're right, if you meant that I was trying to out-elitist perceived elitism. lol

 

[pjoa09]

Intelligence is understanding. Understand the person.

But I can't fucking stand it when people use "your" and "you're". For everything else I hope they know how to use their grammar correctly and had just made a mistake. I think I can't stand this grammatical error for one simple reason. It's always being used as offense. How else better to bite back when someone can't use the language correctly and is insulting you for what he perceives as being stupid?

 

[Sanctum]

Superiority Complex

A lot of times I am overwhelmed with feelings of superiority amongst my peers. I'm not sure if its an INTP thing or not, but when I'm with people my age and we are "hanging out" , which usually includes them talking and me listening, I often feel like I'm and above the current situation, especially when they talk about such mundane topics. I feel as though my desire to be alone could possibly be the root of the superiority complex, I've said in another post before that sometimes i perceive a need for social contact as a weakness, therefore if i prefer to be by myself i am "stronger' than others. What do you guys think? Are INTPS prone to a sense of superiority?

 

[NinjaSurfer]

Re: Superiority Complex

I don't know if I would describe it as suffer, more like gifted with superiority.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Re: Superiority Complex

I feel as though my desire to be alone could possibly be the root of the superiority complex

Probably not the root, it's likely you rationalize your incompatibility in socializing with others as 'you being superior / them being inferior', which gives you a reason to desire to be alone.

But the underlying reasons may be a number of factors: you're not a great conversationalist, you have no charisma, you don't know how to relate to people, for example. Especially if you are judging others as inferior, it's likely cognitive dissonance is involved.

Are INTPS prone to a sense of superiority?

I think people in general who have a sense of detachment from others are at risk for believing themselves to be either inferior or superior depending on the self-esteem of the person and quality the environment.

EDIT: Eh, actually it doesn't matter if you're detached or not, awards, prestige and social confirmation could add to that sense of superiority too.

 

[kora]

Re: Superiority Complex

I swing between feeling superior to everyone, then rationalizing it like you do and then feeling inferior as a result. (repeat cycle until death)

 

[catatonic]

Re: Superiority Complex

Ye, most of the introverted Thinkers peoples (INTP and ISTP) are usually dominatrix.
I prefer not to argue with them, they somewhat want to possessed your minds.
Wait watt... Am I INTP too? I speak like I'm not an INTP.

 

[Hadoblado]

Re: Superiority Complex

I don't feel superior, I just think a lot of people are inferior ...in some ways which are probably less important to them.

 

[Da Blob]

Re: Superiority Complex

Who become the Outcasts of society but those who deviate from the mean, those who are different from the average to a noticeable degree?

Take intelligence for example. Those of us with IQs beyond the second or third standard deviations are relatively rare and quite different from the vast majority of humanity. Does this make us superior or inferior to them - this difference? IMO, it is a matter of POV and both the attitudes of superiority and inferiority can be rationalized.

The problem being is that this attitude of superiority is responsible for the majority of the crimes against humanity, a social Darwinism where it is understood that the Superior has every right to despise, oppress or destroy the Inferior.

If this is a mistake, the subjugation of those who one determines to be one's inferiors, then what is the better role for the self-assessed superior, but willing submission to one's inferiors?

We can only compete with equals or near equals for conflict between those of really disparate abilities or resources is not really competition, for the outcome is never in doubt. Perhaps then that can be a reason for assuming a superior attitude in a social setting, as a defensive stance, for one can avoid competition for whatever prize is sought after by those who seek group activities re: attention, praise, security, acknowledgement etc.

 

[Agent Intellect]

Re: Superiority Complex

I mostly feel inferior. This is what moves me beyond introverted and into withdrawn.

My social philosophy often boils down to the old saying:

"Better to keep your mouth closed and have people think you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubt."

 

[pjoa09]

Re: Superiority Complex

Inferior. Everyone seems to have something they are good at. More lean at certain activities. Whether it be socializing, organizing, or thinking. Not for me. But I will agree, I get bored with what ever seems to capture anyone's interest.