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Texas Hold 'em No-limit Poker

kantor1003

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I think that's good advice - it's hard to know though, because continuation bets are sooo common and even people raising to test the continuation better... this stuff is new to me because it's not prevalent in the lower stakes and free games, but I'm getting there.

Bankroll is $100US for now, and have come out even after putting it in 2-3 weeks ago. Might up it to about $250 after a couple of paychecks from work - yours?

Yes, continuation bets are common. I have poker tracker thingy though, which show how often they c-bet. That helps a great deal in decision making. You have a couple of options. Either reraise his c-bet to see where your at, or flat calling to see what he does on the turn. If he checks the turn, I think the chances are big that he fold if you bet. Flat calling is not that great of an option if you are out of position.

I recommend you check out this bankroll calculator:
http://www.thepokerbank.com/tools/bankroll-calculator/
It will give you some clues to what limits you should be playing at to reduce the risk of going bust due to variance.
I started out with 50 dollars...so it is a huge grind, but I managed to get it up to 1200 and was playing 24+2 6 man turbo sng's. Then I had the badest poker period I have ever encountered. It was so bad that is psyched me out completely. So, I cached out with the thought that "nah, poker is way to psychologically draining for me". But yeah, I'm obviously back. Managed to get my 50 dollars up to about 250 now...and I have sorta stagnated there for the last weeks, which is kinda frustrating. With that roll I play the same limit as you .05/.010 for cash games and 6 tabling 5 dollar sng's.
It sucks though, wish I hadn't cashed out...I might have actually been making some decent money by now.

Edit: read with a critical mind as I am really more of an sng player than a cash player.
 

kantor1003

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Rounders was one of the best gambling movies I've seen. It's very enjoyable if you know something about poker. But if you don't, it can be a snorefest.

Yes, a really great film. I have tried to see some other similar movies. With the exception of one, which I don't know the english name for, none get close.
 

Beat Mango

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$50 ->$1200 is not a bad markup to say the least - how many hands did it take to get you up to that??

I should get pokertracker or something similar, although Pokerstars prohibits software that gives you stats on other players (might be a reason to defect to Full Tilt, but to be honest I kind of like that Stars is tight on tracking software)
 

kantor1003

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How many hands? I am really not sure, but I think it took me about half a year. I made some final tables in tourneys though, so that really helped.

The software I am using gives me stats on players, but it is legal on both stars and fulltilt. The reason is because the app only uses my hand histories to collect data, it does not involve getting information from 3d party sites.
Fulltillt is also tight on tracking software, and I really like the cartoony design:)
Edit: sent you a message
 

Beat Mango

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Hey I looked you up on Pokertableratings Kantor, your rating seems pretty solid. Mine is really bad, I got an F grading overall lol, apparently way too loose and aggressive which surprised me. Most certainly from overplaying marginal hands - I got burned again with JJ last night, then took a guy on with KK and a J on the board - guess what he had? JJ :/

I played a BM tournament at a pub last night as well - the quality of play was poor, rewarded by unlimited rebuys, and I got the shits cos there was this guy at the table who just thought he was king shit, despite playing some very sub standard poker. One of the main problems I have with live games is these guys trying to be all tough shit. Eventually I went all in on a sub par hand and just left.
 

kantor1003

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Poker can quickly become an ego-power struggle...that it get's personal.. and you might end up doing some really bad decisions because of your feelings clouding your judgement.

Played 4 sngs today. Bubbled in 3 of them, sigh. I am so sick of bubbleing!! *feel like destroying something good*
 

kantor1003

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I'm going to play some SnGs next time I play - cash games have become too much of a grind, I miss the extra strategising.

How odd, I am trying to switch to cash games for the same reason. Sng's are really a huge gind... but as I have found out, so is cash games.
I had a terrible day at the tables today as well.. I am tired of poker. I am tired of grinding, grinding, grinding, grinding.. and I am tired of getting bad beated by donks. At least in chess, a bad opponent can never beat you no matter how "lucky" he is.
I think I'll might stop playing online and rather just play some live poker once in a while. I find it much more fun and maybe, MAYBE I can actually get to play some interesting opponents for once and have a GOOD poker game, instead of playing fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, raise 3bb (+1bb for every limper), show/fold the flop poker.
I mean, all the interesting aspects of poker are practically none existent in the lousy low/micro stakes and you are left with shit and no-brain poker.
/end rant/

or...hmm, god I hate poker. Piece of shit game.

/end rant/

The funny thing is, I'll probably get back to playing tomorrow:) I just hate this game so much sometimes.
 

Beat Mango

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Dude I hate to say this but in my experience, and that of other people I've talked to, live games are notoriously and significantly worse than online games in terms of donks, calling stations etc. It's probably more fun though, having the cards actually in your hand, people staring you down when you're deciding whether to call. You played much live?

EDIT: and oh yeah, chess is a beautiful (and rare) game in that it involves 0% luck. But it doesn't have the financial reward obviously, and luck is kind of exciting in a way.
 

kantor1003

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I have played some live and I really enjoy it. Of course, there are plenty of donks there as well, but you spot them much sooner. Sometimes you don't even need to see them play a hand. For one, you aren't multi-tabling, unless you believe the same identical you exist in parallel universes (or that you play online at the same time), number two, there is a whole psychological/body language aspect. You can talk to your opponents to feel them out, you can see how they are acting etc. etc. It adds up to a lot of +ev I believe. Also, you have the added bonus of not being raked:) in a home game that is.
As you said, you actually have the cards physically in your hands, and you have some real chips in front of you. You gotta love chips:P I am thinking of buying some real casino style clay chips. Paulson's would probably be the hippest thing to buy, but seeing the price around 1800 dollars for 500 chips kinda turns me off. Do you know of some cool clay chip alternatives?
 

Beat Mango

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Casino style chips? I don't know what you mean, when I played at Star City Sydney they used nuff nuff plastic chips lol.

But yeah I've been playing about one live game a week, usually a tournament at a pub somewhere. I'm going to play a live cash game this Monday, no rake no buy-in $1/$2, though which I'm looking forward to, my mate said they're donkeys who go all-in all the time lol.

Home games - can you rock up at random ones? Or do you have to know people?
 

kantor1003

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Casino style chips? I don't know what you mean, when I played at Star City Sydney they used nuff nuff plastic chips lol.

But yeah I've been playing about one live game a week, usually a tournament at a pub somewhere. I'm going to play a live cash game this Monday, no rake no buy-in $1/$2, though which I'm looking forward to, my mate said they're donkeys who go all-in all the time lol.

Home games - can you rock up at random ones? Or do you have to know people?

Poker chips that are identical with what they use in the casinos.
To get into home games, or larger poker games, I have to know people. There is a game running, 100 dollar sng game, once a week.. I haven't played in it yet though:)

Barry greenstein seems like an allright dude. I don't find his playing too entertaining though. Tom dwan at highstakes however:eek:
 

Beat Mango

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I think I should take a break for a few days - my bankroll is down from $100 to $30 after about 5000 hands. I'm consistently getting smashed - it's really frustrating that with my premium hands, I'm losing big and winning small. They say a good poker player minimises their losses and maximises their wins - I don't think I could have done anything more to maximise my wins (not on the premium hands anyway), although I certainly could have minimised some of the losses. I think also I get impatient, and when I get good hole cards or a good flop, I think, "ok I've waited a long time, I deserve a big pot here" which is obviously incorrect thinking.
 

Toad

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I told you !!!
 

Beat Mango

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Thanks to Pokertableratings, I'm able to run up info on the players I'm going up against. It's kind of disillusioning how many multi-tabling, overly passive grinders there are clogging up the full-ring tables. I think it's heads-up for me from now on.
 

kantor1003

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Yeah, there are loads of them. Irritating. Have tried some heads-up myself... if you can handle the swings and the rake, then go for it:)
 

Beat Mango

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Well I play heads-up tournaments, so the variance should in theory be far lower as I'm playing many hands, although still I'm guessing more variance than full-ring.

I played the casino the other night, had a good night. Might go there more often.

By the way, off topic, I watched that movie Persepolis - I'll put it on the list of recommendations, very good.
 

Words

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Played. Played Good. Got lucky a lot. Understood the system. and got bored...
 

kantor1003

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Cauterize: I think it takes a long time to understand "the system", because the system changes every time you move up in limits. Unless you have been able to beat the highest limits consistently, I don't think one can say they even have come close to understanding it. If you are referring to the mathematical aspect, then I agree to a larger extent.
 

Words

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Cauterize: I think it takes a long time to understand "the system", because the system changes every time you move up in limits. Unless you have been able to beat the highest limits consistently, I don't think one can say they even have come close to understanding it. If you are referring to the mathematical aspect, then I agree to a larger extent.
uh, your right. I'm sorry for sounding like I'm underestimating it. Its more like I know its basics.
 

kantor1003

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Ok I've defected to Full Tilt so I can take advantage of the 27% rakeback - just made my deposit then. Might even try this Rush Poker thing.

I have been running like shit on the rush tables. It's so sickening lol... at the same time it's addictive. I must try to stay away from that shit:)
What's your username?
I haven't that rakeback thing.. sigh. How do you go about it? maybe I could sign up with a different account and transfer my money over to the new one..
 

Beat Mango

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Just got pretty much butt-raped in a 3 hour non-stop heads-up session. Trying to go over the stats to work out where he was getting me. It seemed like he was winning bigger pots on his good hands than I was, I'm just trying to work out how he was able to do that.

I played at the Casino Saturday night again too, and was a real grind. Ended up losing a small amount of money, mostly I think I didn't get good enough hands to take advantage of players who were really quite poor. Oh and uh, mid-pairs stuffed me up again, gotta do something about that.
 

Beat Mango

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ok Kantor could you please do me a favour? If you find me playing the HU 25c/50c cash games, could you please kick my ass!! The lure of quick cash is so tempting, but for the very same reason the downswings are wayyy too much for my bankroll. I should stop while I'm ahead (actually I'm down 50, but you know what I mean...)
 

kantor1003

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ok Kantor could you please do me a favour? If you find me playing the HU 25c/50c cash games, could you please kick my ass!! The lure of quick cash is so tempting, but for the very same reason the downswings are wayyy too much for my bankroll. I should stop while I'm ahead (actually I'm down 50, but you know what I mean...)

Haha! broke yet?:P If I find you at the 25/50 I am forced to join in the pursuit of some easy money;) I don't think the players at those stakes are too good though..but the overall playing has improved greatly at all stakes over the years:(
What's your bankroll now?
Cash games can be frustrating some times. After spending 2+ hours making some decent profit only to loose it all on a few key hands.. I guess thats when you are thinking "fuck this small stake shit, time to gamble it up! I can win it all back just from stealing some blinds!"

Regarding rush poker, I haven't played it in quite some time. I think I hate it more than I love it. You can't put anyone on any reads, which cash games is all about. However, the added hourly hand rate might add up to the -ev lost due to lack of reads.

My poker update: My bankroll is exactly the same as it was 3 months ago. Maybe a little less. I am so tired of it. I progressed and progressed until suddenly reaching some sort of a plateau. If I had the classical gambling mentality, I would say that this is due to fulltilt refusing to give me anymore money:) Apparently I must have some leaks in my game, or I am running bad. I don't know. But if it's due to leaks, then why have I been able to steady build my roll for so long? So frustrating to play and play, without seeing any growth at all. Spending my time jacking off to an old picture would be more productive than this.

Anyways, I had a hand recently. First hand that I have seen being played like this at these low stakes. Don't think I could have played it any differently with the exception of calling the reraise on the river. Below I comment on my reasoning. You can watch the hand here:
http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/view.php/id/1392779

Blinds 02/05 with a 01 ante
Villain:10 dollar stack
Me (aq): 11 dollar stack
I am in the bb, he is in the sb.
This is a 6 man table and someone raises 0.15 utg. Villain in sb calls.
I was thinking about flat calling, but apparently the utg raiser was a pretty frequent raiser, so I re-popped it to 0.45. This way I could rep a really great hand and hopefully isolate the utg raiser. The utg raiser quickly folded and the villain called.

The flop came 5 Q 8 rainbow. A dream flop. I couldn't hope for anything better.
Villain checks so I bet 0.55, half the pot, because of the dry flop. Villain calls. Turn is a j (still rainbow). Villain checks. This made me suspicious, so I checked behind. River is a total blank. 3d. Now for the interesting part, villain checks again. Almost everyone would bet their hand for value here. Especially since I checked the turn. So, I figured that the villain might had a hand like q10 or most likely a medium pair. I was for sure getting paid by a queen I thought, so I value bet kinda big 1.5 into a 2 dollar pot, I might get it to look like a steal as well and could possibly even induce calls from medium pairs. Anyways, what happens is that the villain raises 3.8. I am steaming like crazy and call on impulse knowing that I am beat. The villain shows trip 8s. Apart from the idiotic call on the river, is there anything wrong with the way I played the hand?
 

kantor1003

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Broke? how did you manage that? what games where you playing?
 

Beat Mango

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HU 25/50c. Since then I've read that to have a bankroll of $1500 for that level would be ambitious - mine was $150 :// I took some cash to the casino though and got lucky with pocket jacks vs 4 all-in callers, so I put that toward my bankroll and I'm back :D
 

kantor1003

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haha, no wonder why you got busto! I actually tried some HU 25/50 myself after a loosing session (inspired by you:)) - very stupid of me. Luckily, I managed to grab up 20 dollars after 4 hands and quickly left realizing how stupid it is to play those limits with a 200+ bankroll:)
 
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I must indicate first and foremost that all poker literature is manipulative and witholds the greatest truths on purpose.

Poker literature is marketting, plain and simple. Convince people they know what they're doing, but really you're just making them follow a pattern.

Super system isn't so super if everyone starts doing it and reacting to it, neither is low ball.

Poker is beaten with philosophy and logic.
 

Beat Mango

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Ah this is just sick. How can I lose 6 buy-ins in the space of about 30 minutes?! I'll tell you how: absolutely outrageously bad luck, losing all-in after all-in despite being in front in all of them. I hit a flush on the flop, a guy with a set hits a full house on the river. AA loses twice: once on a pre-flop all-in to KK, and another has their set hit after the flop. JJ loses to AK on the flop after a bluff fails but they hit their ace on the turn. KK loses to 78, all-in on the flop but they hit two pair on the river. Ridiculous, is something wrong with Full Tilt?? This seems to happen way too often.

Ah fuck poker.
 

Beat Mango

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So I started with $26 this month (which was one week ago), and I've already paid $63 rake. Wtf?! That's 2 and a half times my starting bankroll, in one week! These guys must be making an absolute fortune - I swear the only ones who make money on Full Tilt Poker are the guys from Full Tilt Poker itself. Although it's not as bad I guess as Star City casino - how on earth do they get away with charging 10% rake plus a $5 hourly time charge?! Outrageous.

Btw, I lost my $26, but with my rakeback deal I'll have $17 to start again with next month. Until then I'll play freerolls. I prefer it this way to putting in my own money.

anybody here play zynga poker? facebook that is.

No, it sucks. You can't make money nor improve your game, which are the only two reasons I play.
 

kantor1003

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Ah this is just sick. How can I lose 6 buy-ins in the space of about 30 minutes?! I'll tell you how: absolutely outrageously bad luck, losing all-in after all-in despite being in front in all of them. I hit a flush on the flop, a guy with a set hits a full house on the river. AA loses twice: once on a pre-flop all-in to KK, and another has their set hit after the flop. JJ loses to AK on the flop after a bluff fails but they hit their ace on the turn. KK loses to 78, all-in on the flop but they hit two pair on the river. Ridiculous, is something wrong with Full Tilt?? This seems to happen way too often.

Ah fuck poker.

Sorry, but hahahaha, I can relate so much to this. God I hate poker sometimes.

So I started with $26 this month (which was one week ago), and I've already paid $63 rake. Wtf?! That's 2 and a half times my starting bankroll, in one week! These guys must be making an absolute fortune - I swear the only ones who make money on Full Tilt Poker are the guys from Full Tilt Poker itself. Although it's not as bad I guess as Star City casino - how on earth do they get away with charging 10% rake plus a $5 hourly time charge?! Outrageous.

Btw, I lost my $26, but with my rakeback deal I'll have $17 to start again with next month. Until then I'll play freerolls. I prefer it this way to putting in my own money.



No, it sucks. You can't make money nor improve your game, which are the only two reasons I play.

$17 is way too small amount.. and you'd have to grind 1 dollar sngs, but if you'r up for it, then give it a shot :)
Myself, have been having a hell of a time. I haven't seen my bankroll grow in AGES. Lately I have began to loose quite a bit as well. Probably 100$ in a short period. I have played HU exclusively.. lost 10 in a row now. Quick $60 down the drain.. that game is so swingy! Don't play too much anymore though.. don't think it's that fun anymore.. but now that you reminded me, I'll have one 5 table session and see how it goes :)
 

Beat Mango

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I lost plenty playing HU, both cash and SnGs, in fact, probably all my $250 or so dollars I lost online was through HU...

$17 is tiny but I'm just mucking around these days dude, not trying to make big winnings. I was actually multi-tabling Rush Poker with my $26 dollars - I got it up to $50, down to $9, back up to $60, then now down to zero. Talk about swingy, and I don't think there's much I could have done differently either (apart from the last $20 where I was on tilt ://)
 

kantor1003

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"and I don't think there's much I could have done differently either" apart from having your whole roll at the table? :)
Anyways, it seems they have upped the rake at ftp. Damn greedy bastards.. I wonder how much money they are making.
 

kantor1003

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Question: Have you read any good poker material? Books, anything?
I was taught how to play by my younger brother, who has been playing for about 2 years longer.
Been noodling around poker for around 4 years now, but never read too many books strangely enough.
I've read the super system, like probably everyone else, which was ok, and Collin Moshman - Heads-Up No-Limit Hold'em, which also was ok. I didn't learn too much from the last mentioned that I didn't already know, but I think it is great for people that are just getting into HU.

Hustler, the creator of this thread at intpcentral, and a highly winning player, recommends these books:
"Getting Started in Hold'em" (Miller)
"The Theory of Poker" (Sklansky)
"Inside the Poker Mind" (Feeney).
I haven't got around to reading them yet personally but I trust Huslers recommendations.
Other than that I've spent some time lurking and posting some hands on two+two which is really educational. I also recommend http://www.tagpoker.co.uk/ There you have 30+ free HU instructional videos. The community is also great and more than happy to help you out with your game.
If you want instruction videos about cash games + everything else in-between you have sites like cardrunners, but they cost a monthly fee.. some sites have a week free trial though.
 

kantor1003

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long breakeven/slight loosing stretches are so tilting. My mind begins to tackle the ups and downs of poker a little better, but not good enough. It's really hard on your psyche. Since last time I posted in this thread in response to beat/banana I have moved up from playing the 5-10 dollar HUsngs to the 20s, then 30s, and now the 50s. At the 50s there is often a very long waiting line (for the fish) as there is so many dudes grinding these for a living.
The difference in playing skill was most noticeable for me switching from the 30s to the 50s.. but it's not too bad apart from the waiting. Hopefully I don't have to move down again. I want to reach the 100+ as soon as possible as grinding the 50s isn't really an option. Let me see, if you play 20 games a day for a 10% return (if you are a good player, this should be achievable) you'll get hmmm.. around 36k a year which amounts to 3k a month.. wait.. dang it, that's not so bad.. unfortunately my mind can't at the moment tackle 20 games a day. My plan is to just play some more recreationally, move up when I get rolled for it and when I hit the 100s I'll take a month or two focusing on poker only, try to get in 20 games a day, then, if it goes well, I'll start to more seriously consider this for a living.
 

Gather_Wanderer

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- Kantoor

It's the day before finals (I think I'm getting straight B's...). In the library studying right now, also waiting on gf (yeah, it happened with that one girl) to get out of her Spanish final.

I'm sure a few weeks ago I mentioned that I deposited money and would be soon ready to play some. I did play a few games the night I put that money in, just to refresh a bit. Anyway come Friday, I'm essentially treating it as my second job. Do need to build a pot first, though.
 

kantor1003

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Ah nice Wanderer, and good luck on the finals!
I will try to get on on friday. It depends on wether I'm drinking or not, but I think I'll be home that day.
 
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