Talking about you guys in RL

[eudemonia]

Am I going mad?

I have to mix with people all over the world in my job. I have just finished a 3 day session that included Americans, Canadians, Argentinians, Colombians and Trinidadians.

Now, when I talk to the American guy from Louisiana I say, 'yeah, I know this guy from Texas. He tells me a lot about the Bible belt culture and .......'

So the Louisiana guy says, oh how did you meet him then?

So what do I say?

Well, errrr, I sort of 'met' him on the internet, on a forum actually. In fact to tell the truth, I haven't actually met him as such. But I feel I know him a bit...

OR

I talk too this Canadian from Vancouver. So I say 'I know this guy from Ottawa and.... So the guy says, 'Oh, have you been to Ottawa'. 'No' I say, heart sinking. 'How did you meet then?'

OR

a guy on my MBA is from Oregon. 'Oh, I know someone from Oregon' I say....

or from Michigan or Minnesota or Giessen.

But how do I talk about you guys in RL without sounding totally weird or sad or just plain mad?

 

[Jesin]

Maybe instead of "I know this guy from X, and he said..." you could say "Some guy from X said...". Or something like that. I dunno.

 

[Ogion]

Yay, you know the city where i live, uhm...It actually is a stupid, ugly city, but still

Yeah, i know that feeling. I usually avoid speaking of it. Sometimes though i do the opposite, i am openly aggressive with it Like "The internet is really great. You get to know people from all over the world, and through the limitation of text-based communication actually much deeper than many person i know from meeting face to face...", depends on the person i talk to, which strategy i use...

Ogion

 

[Jesin]

Or, you could just do this:
"I know this guy from X, and he said..."
"How do you know him?"
"Internet."

 

[fullerene]

depends on what you're trying to do... haha it sounds like you're using their location as a way to connect with the people on a personal level, so you can't really do what I do. Everyone I talk to online turns into a "well... I did know one person who [insert point here]" story. I just leave out how I know them or where they're from, so it never comes up. I think people just assume they're past friends or something.

...but of course that doesn't sound like it'd help you very much.

edit: oh, and I think people tend not to care so much if you don't care so much. I've grafted it into my head and speech that nothing should be awkward or uncomfortable, and if I talk about it like there's nothing strange about it (like AI said), people don't even bat an eye at the things that I would have been embarrassed about before. Who knows what they walk away thinking... but who really cares?

 

[Agent Intellect]

well, its the 21st century, so i'm sure people will hopefully understand that there is socializing over the internet. usually when i refer to anyone i've talked to over the internet, i'll say something along the lines of "someone i talked to over the internet from [insert country or city] said...." just qualify the statement right from the get-go that it was someone from over the internet.

 

[Jesin]

Yes.

 

[Snail]

I have no problem admitting that most of my social life occurs online. I don't think it's anything to be ashamed of.

 

[flow]

Yeah I've actually mentioned this forum to my ENTP roommate and shown him some of the topics.. No shame in having forum friends!

 

[EloquentBohemian]

The internet is a part of everyday life now for many people, so I think that if you added that to the initial point of where you 'met' someone from here, it would assist in clarification.

In real life, one meets someone visually initially. Impressions and judgements are made immediately from body language, dress, and other visual clues. Additionally, social setting is a factor, as is other individuals within this social setting, be it a business meeting, a formal gathering, or a casual meeting at a coffee shop. Countless visual, auditory, and olfactory stimuli are being accumulated constantly and reassessed as the encounter continues. The others vocalised thoughts are intertwined within this constant array of other sensory data.

In contrast, on a forum such as this, one can view the thoughts of others without all the other stimuli interfering. One can consider and reflect on another's thoughts at leisure and construct a reply. The reply does not have to be immediate and if needed, one may find references to support one's reply.

What the internet provides is an almost direct connection to the thoughts of others, no matter where they reside physically. There are little to no clues to another individual outside of one's interpretation of their thoughts expressed in written words. Hence, one becomes acquainted with that which is most important in meeting another, how another thinks and communicates in relation to one's self.
Granted, these communications are filtered through a persona/mask each one chooses to present one's self as, but the vast majority of the conceptions, assessments, and judgments which permeate real life contact are absent.

If two people approach each other in real life from a distance, each is assessing sensory data immediately upon selecting the other from the total visual field. Once face to face, if neither speaks, awkwardness, suspicion, and fear begin to rise. With no communication of thought from either person, the encounter ceases to be one of communication and becomes one of more fundamental instincts such as "fight or flight".

Attempt this sometime in real life.
In a fair-sized room, where each individual will be only a part of the total field of vision of the other, have them approach each other at a moderately slow pace without speech until they are within eight to twelve inches of each other.
No speech or communicative hand gestures whatsoever.
Observe how each approaches the other, such as body language, gait, position of arms, etc.
Now that each in fully within the others field of vision, observe the reactions and time how long it takes for the encounter to break off.
Observe which individual breaks contact first.
Observe if direct eye contact is initiated and which individual does and/or does not.
Perform this with pairings of female/male, male/male, and female/female.
Observe the differences in approach between an individual performing in different pairings.

Internet forums such as these allow one to speak with others, and with choice as to whom one speaks with, without engaging in the plethora of stimuli constant in real life, hence, one may 'get to know' others more quickly and form some quality of limited bond with selected others without many of the encumberances of physical contact each of us are subjected to in real life.

 

[Ogion]

Total agreement from me, EB.
I had to smirk at your test scenario. I thought: "Okay, i'd like to do that, but where am i going to get these people. Does EB have hordes of test-guys in the basement, hibernating, waiting for the next experiment to come up?"

Ogion

 

[EloquentBohemian]

I have a bunch of clones, but none of us can tolerate the others.

 

[Thread Killer]

I almost always keep my online life separate with my offline life, but if I must or feel compelled to mention something that I heard from someone online, I just say that I read something that someone said online and be as vague as possible about that. I tend to focus on what was said than on who said it. To me, it's the same as if I was talking about something I heard some some guy on TV. Unless the other person knows who I'm talking about, bringing the individual into the conversation seems a bit pointless.

 

[Chimera]

_________
____________

I have a habit of not mentioning people I know online when talking to people offline, especially when I'm talking to someone who I believe doesn't use the internet as much as I do (read: 90% of my social group). I'm 14. Whenever the topic of socializing online is raised, there is a very good chance that the person will bring predators into the discussion. Because obviously everyone online is a pedophile waiting to spring.
Don't get me wrong, it's not like I'm going to fling my address or phone number at anyone online. But really. I'm paranoid enough to keep myself out of that kinda trouble. I think as long as people are smart about keeping the right information to themselves, they're pretty safe.
Anyway. Point is, unless I know the person I'm talking to has some sort of online interaction with others, I don't talk about my own online friends.
____________
_________
​

 

[Decaf]

The magic word is "correspond". I correspond with someone from <fill in the blank>. It encompasses our relationship well without using negative trigger words like 'forum'. At least that's what I've started doing. That way the other person doesn't assume I've met the person I'm talking to.

I know plenty of people who have trouble respecting internet-based friendships. Even those very close to me who should know better at this point.

Also, I would have to add an addendum to EB's statement. I don't think the internet is a direct connection to other people's thoughts. It has to pass through the layer of language intelligence and education. Someone with poor grammatical skills or a small vocabulary still generates preconceptions from others. Its not something we deal with all that much here because as INTPs, language dexterity is instinctively important to us. I'm just mentioning it because I think its something important to keep in mind.

 

[Ermine]

I don't get why so many people don't accept communication and "correspondence" with people online. It's just like having a pen pal, but in a different medium. Just like with pen pals, it's an edifying line of communication though I may never meet my correspondent.

My mom is very apprehensive about online communication just because I don't know a lot about who I'm talking to. It's not much different in RL. There are strangers, there are antagonistic freaks, there are real people, and there are friends. I find it funny that some people worry more about online freaks than the the RL ones.

Even then, in the 21st century, the term "real life" is becoming more and more irrelevant in the online aspect. While we usually keep our online life separate from the rest of our life, you can't say that your life is real and your activities online aren't real. For me, it's a lot like how I keep my school life mostly separate from my home life, and my work life is separate from all my other lives.

 

[Thread Killer]

My parents are also very suspicious about online communication. And yes, it's sad in a way that people seem more concerned about net nutbags than the ones IRL. Oh well, you can thank mass-media for that one.

 

[Fedayeen]

i'm much closer to my online friends then my RL ones.

 

[Decaf]

i'm much closer to my online friends then my RL ones.

Agreed. I hardly ever talk to my RL friends. If I don't work with them or have classes with them, there just isn't much reason to get together. We could do a weekly get together kind of thing, but scheduling that stuff feels oppressive.

 

[EloquentBohemian]

The magic word is "correspond". I correspond with someone from <fill in the blank>.

Excellent choice of words and one I will remember.

Also, I would have to add an addendum to EB's statement. I don't think the internet is a direct connection to other people's thoughts. It has to pass through the layer of language intelligence and education. Someone with poor grammatical skills or a small vocabulary still generates preconceptions from others. Its not something we deal with all that much here because as INTPs, language dexterity is instinctively important to us. I'm just mentioning it because I think its something important to keep in mind.

Agreed. I spoke in broader terms before and this has strong merit which I didn't consider when writing. Even between English-speaking countries, there is a difference in meaning for many words.

 

[Fedayeen]

I tend to push away my RL friends after a while. I dont think i'm still in contact with anyone i've known for 5 or more years. Out of all my friends I think 4 years is the longest right now, and that was from 2nd year of high school.

 

[eudemonia]

I started off by thinking this may be a generational thing - i.e. my generation find it strange to talk about online friendships but the younger generation are quite used to it. From what you are saying however, there are negative connotations to online relationships regardless of age. The connotations might be different however. With younger people there is the assumption that they are talking to potential 'groomers' (after all what adult would talk to a 14 year old unless they were seriously disturbed ). With older people the assumption is 'you haven't got a life'.

I like the idea of using the word correspond - it sounds mature, intelligent, even creative.

The other theme that comes through strongly is comparing the quality of relationships online to those in real life. Many of us clearly feel that the level of communication here is deeper than it is with people in real life. Is this because in real life, most people are not interested in 'deep' communication (the INTP curse), or is it that deep communication is impeded by all the sensory cues EB mentions or is it simply that convention prevents all deep conversation for some strange evolutionary reason that has long failed to play a meaningful role?

I have a number of girl friends who all brought up our kids together. We have shared common experiences but not one of them knows me. I send out cues and talk of conversations I have had online or even some deeply personal experiences I have had of late but not one of them picks up the cues and probes. It's almost as if people are embarrassed to speak deeply in real life. What are we to do about this? Its deeply frustrating having to parcel up our lives like this.

 

[Agent Intellect]

even in the younger generations, theres the whole "you don't have a life" thing if you make friends over the internet. myspace and facebook seem to be how people keep in touch with offline friends while online, but theres still a bit of a stigma about making friends online. i met my girlfriend over the internet and anyone i tell that to doesn't hesitate to inform me of how strange that is (and before i flew out to meet her the first time, i was subject to endless jokes about how i was going to get raped by some old guy, even though i had talked to her on the phone and stuff already).

 

[eudemonia]

I think its great you met your girlfriend on the internet. If its anything like the relationships here, you've probably got more in common than anyone you've met in RL.

 

[Decaf]

A couple weekends back I flew down to Anaheim, CA to go to my grandma's funeral. At the end of the trip I hooked up with 4 friends who I game with living in San Diego. I'd gamed with these people for more than a year and a while back we'd even started a clan. Hundreds of posts on our forum before we abandoned it and dozens of hours talking over Teamspeak (a program that allows you to talk to other people while the game is running, i.e. the people on your team).

When I mentioned what I was doing to my stepmom she insisted that we decide on a 'safe word' in case I got kidnapped and I wouldn't be able to clearly state my problem over the phone. All that even though she was with me the first time I met someone from the internet 10 years ago.

Of course it turned out great and I enjoyed my time with them and they got me to the airport when it was time to leave. Still, with not so subtle reminders of what other people think of these things its hard to feel open and free to talk about it. My girlfriend still looks exasperated that I'm not "going out" to meet new people and she's younger than I am.

 

[shadowmouse]

Ahh, The irrationality of the social stigma. I think part of the reason that there is such paranoia about people you interact with online is that all those clues are missing. As INTP's we disregard most of these cues when we interact with people at a meaningful level anyway and place our emphasis on coherency and logical flow. The internet (written) format simply (as stated before) strips away the rest of it and allows us to focus on the message. I think this throws a lot of the other types (especially the Exxx's) because they depend on that multitude of other input to communicate what they can't seem to articulate or don't want to just come out and say.

In any case, I don't usually share my online connections with anyone because most people I know simply aren't aware enough to accept that there are other forms of connection that work just as well. My best friend since high school and I have met precisely twice offline but we have years of shared history and projects that provide a deeper connection than I been able to achieve with anyone I know just offline.

I believe that it IS a loss and a detriment that most people seem to be unwilling to address deeper topics of conversation when face to face. Something about actually dealing with substance seems to give most people I know the creeps. It doesn't help that I can simultaneously run both a deep and light conversation at the same time with no sense of contradiction or confusion. *shrug*

 

[NoID10ts]

This is part of my private world and I almost never speak of it to anyone in RL. If I do, I just mention generalities, no specifics.

Sometimes I wonder if we met in real life, if we would still like each other. We may all have shrill, freakish ways of speaking. We may have tremendous body odor, and bizarre, off putting nervous ticks that would leave us all very disillusioned upon an off line meeting. If you think you don't like me now you should meet me in real life. I'm horrible. I mean it, really dreadful!

 

[Decaf]

Sometimes I wonder if we met in real life, if we would still like each other.

In my experience, most likely. I have some friends through the internet that when I met them had some of those off-putting ticks (though so far no one has smelled that bad) and it didn't phase me. Once you've had to chance to see the value in another person its pretty easy to treat abnormalities in a positive way.

One of the guys I met this past weekend turned out to have a very rushed and twitchy way of speaking (imagine Tweak)

That probably would have bothered me if I didn't already have a pretty good idea of who he was. As it was, it seemed a bit endearing if still odd.

Another was a domineering woman, who is the scariest person to ride in a car with that I have known for a long time (a girl in Tacoma still holds the record for scariest ever). Again, its not that hard to look past it and the experience has enriched my conversations with them. You don't want to allow visual prejudice to influence you, but there is more to a person's appearance than just those qualities that lead to stereotypes. I think its a good thing.

 

[NoID10ts]

I find that if I imagine the absolute worst about someone, I'm never disappointed. If only everyone would extend me the same courtesy.

 

[FusionKnight]

Oh, we always expect the worst from you, NoI...

 

[Decaf]

I find that if I imagine the absolute worst about someone, I'm never disappointed. If only everyone would extend me the same courtesy.

Oh, we always expect the worst from you, NoI...

Really? I thought I was expecting the best. It just happened to be a really bad best

 

[Auburn]

I agree with what has been said.

In fact, the way in which we come to know each other on this forum, IMO, is probably much more genuine than meeting in real life.

It allows us to get to know the person on the inside, without first forming all the bisaes that come from appearances.

(random question: What would you look like if you were in the body that properly represented who you are on the inside?)

EDIT: Thread created. Thank Ogion.

 

[Ogion]

Make a thread about it, Auburn (I'm sure it wil fill just as fast as the other threads about 'looks' )

Also in a forum you get right down to it, i think. I mean, with which person in 'real life' i would start talking about very deep questions of life, five minutes after meeting? I mean, i life here now for one and a half years with 7 roommates and we certainly do not have these kinds of conversations...

Ogion

 

[Agent Intellect]

i think at an offline get together, people would find me rather bothersome. anyone thats been on flashchat with me knows i have to disagree with people about everything and make disgusting jokes all the time (i've been holding back on the forum).

 

[NoID10ts]

I have a nervous tick where I will suddenly and repeatedly stab the nearest person to me with a thumb tack that I always carry, concealed in my left hand, while I scream profanities at them just as loud as I can.

Oh the awkward looks I get sometimes, especially on the city bus amidst complete strangers!

Good Times!

 

[Jesin]

Also in a forum you get right down to it, i think. I mean, with which person in 'real life' i would start talking about very deep questions of life, five minutes after meeting? I mean, i life here now for one and a half years with 7 roommates and we certainly do not have these kinds of conversations...

I think this is partly because new members here don't often meet people by starting up a conversation, or when someone else starts up a conversation with them. Usually, they just see a discussion that interests them, jump in, and start making comments.

I wonder how that would work in real life...

 

[loveofreason]

This form of communication is a small step toward liberation of the mind.

Before the internet there was a grand tradition of letter-writing. That was the mode for true friends of the mind to embrace one another.

Decaf is perfectly correct. Correspondence.

200 years ago or today, only the vector and trappings of 'speech' - meaning-drift - have changed.

Now, when we can really step into the mind of another and submerge within the internal visuals. That will be quite something.

 

[EloquentBohemian]

Now, when we can really step into the mind of another and submerge within the internal visuals. That will be quite something.

Do you really want to be in NoID10ts mind and his internal visuals?

 

[loveofreason]

I already am.

 

[NoID10ts]

Do you really want to be in NoID10ts mind and his internal visuals?

You all do. I promise!

 

[EloquentBohemian]

...somehow, the movie Monkeybone comes to mind.

 

[figaro_black]

I think this is partly because new members here don't often meet people by starting up a conversation, or when someone else starts up a conversation with them. Usually, they just see a discussion that interests them, jump in, and start making comments.

I wonder how that would work in real life...

In my experience, it actually works surprisingly well if you have something in common. It might be sitting at the same table waiting to be able to register for a certain course, for instance, or waiting for the examination hall doors to open. Granted, people might stare at you for a few seconds in surprise before they accept that you've actually said something but after that the discussion usually flows just fine. I have not tested actually jumping into the conversation of complete strangers eating at the same café as me yet, but I'm often sorely tempted. Though I have the nagging suspicion that it might not work that well...

Anyhow, people who know me have learnt that I socialise over the net, but they also know that I live on the countryside and so they sort of figure that I don't have that many options if I want to have a social life. Wonder if there is a difference between attitudes to socialising over the net between people living in the city and people living in remote places?

 

[Dissident]

In my experience, it actually works surprisingly well if you have something in common. It might be sitting at the same table waiting to be able to register for a certain course, for instance, or waiting for the examination hall doors to open. Granted, people might stare at you for a few seconds in surprise before they accept that you've actually said something but after that the discussion usually flows just fine. I have not tested actually jumping into the conversation of complete strangers eating at the same café as me yet, but I'm often sorely tempted. Though I have the nagging suspicion that it might not work that well...

That is actually tempting, given that the conversation is really interesting, what you can hear at random is usually not worth it. I think that the best way to go would be with a very controversial, interesting comment, so their reaction to the statement is bigger than the reaction to some stranger suddenly talking to you.

On topic: I dont talk about you guys in RL, I almost dont have any interesting conversations outside here so they dont deserve quotes from you

 

[Jesin]

That is actually tempting, given that the conversation is really interesting, what you can hear at random is usually not worth it.

Yeah, that's why it often works at my school (TJHSST). I'm not sure about everywhere else, though.

 

[loveofreason]

In my experience, it actually works surprisingly well if you have something in common. It might be sitting at the same table waiting to be able to register for a certain course, for instance, or waiting for the examination hall doors to open. Granted, people might stare at you for a few seconds in surprise before they accept that you've actually said something but after that the discussion usually flows just fine. I have not tested actually jumping into the conversation of complete strangers eating at the same café as me yet, but I'm often sorely tempted. Though I have the nagging suspicion that it might not work that well...

Anyhow, people who know me have learnt that I socialise over the net, but they also know that I live on the countryside and so they sort of figure that I don't have that many options if I want to have a social life. Wonder if there is a difference between attitudes to socialising over the net between people living in the city and people living in remote places?

Particularly when I lived in the city I found that complete strangers frequently started conversations or just threw out a line to me. I find nothing odd about it. I appreciate it actually. So random.

As for living remotely, I now live in the country far from any remotely alternative culture. It's deeply traditional here. Tasmania's version of the bible-belt... Apart from the occasional traveler, I have no one in off-line life to talk to beyond inane chat...

so it's very seldom I mention this forum or anyone here. In fact I think I have only once.

Like Dissident said - you're all too good to sully.