Superiority of Te v Ti

[DrGregoryHouse]

So I've been spending a lot of time with a couple of very very close kindred spirits who are INTJs.

I've been discussing so many things of a personal interest with them including philosophy, love, relationships, business and money...

Over the last several months what has struck me is how much more effective they are in interfacing with the real world in the achievement of their goals.

In their careers they are wildly successful. Both are younger than me by several years but are clearing nearly twice the yearly income I am (deep into six figures). Based on many factors I've been given to understand, I'm led to believe their strategic actions and behaviors in regards to dealing with office politics has been a huge component of their success.

Both have happy successful marriages which, as opposed to my recent divorce + my forensic analysis of what went wrong with mine + other factors I've observed about their spouses, leads me to believe that their strategic INTJ-ness led them to pick a winner for a spouse in the first place. As opposed to my idiotic choice.

The conclusion I'm coming to is that the Te is far far superior to Ti in terms of being able to interface effectively with society.

[NTs are la creme of la creme of evolutionary development.

Society, being composed of ~80% sensors and way too many feelers, is for the most part existent to serve further evolutionary development of the NT mind.

INTJs are effective in interfacing with society in order to maximize their evolutionary advantage/ propogation. INTPs are hardly effective in this regard if at all.]<---PLEASE DON'T WASTE TIME IN THIS THREAD DISCUSSING THE MERITS/ LACK THEREOF OF THIS PARTICULAR CONCLUSION OF MINE...please create another thread for this. I'm beyond debating this particular conclusion. Under this assumption:

The primary distinction I perceive between the INTJ and the INTP is Te v Ti.

In terms of gaining access to resources needed to perpetuate their evolutionary gain, INTJs and extroverted thinking are effective. INTPs and introverted thinking are not.

Emotional Intelligence trumps raw IQ everytime in terms of being able to manipulate Ss in society into proving food, clothing, shelter and medical care (as represented by money and power). INTJs are generally adept at this with their extroverted thinking. INTPs and introverted thinking is not.

I am, unfortunately in this regard, probably as solid an INTP as they come. I am starting to perceive the distinct disadvantage I am in possession of is at root my introverted thinking as opposed to my INTJ kindred spirit's possession of extroverted thinking.

I'd like to develop my shadow function Te to become more dominant, even possibly for my extroverted thinking to completely overcome and completely dominate my Ti.

I'm beginning to perceive my Thinking is a massive strength but the introvertedness a majorly self-defeating handicap. If it were extroverted I would be capable of attaining the societal resources and perpetuating my evolution much effectively.

Is this even possible? How to do this?

"My shadow's Shedding skin and I've been picking scabs again. I'm down digging through my old muscles looking for a clue. I've been crawling on my belly clearing out what could've been. I've been wallowing in my own confused and insecure delusions for a piece to cross me over or a word to guide me in. I wanna feel the changes coming down. I wanna know what I've been hiding in my shadow. Change is coming through my shadow. My shadow's shedding skin I've been picking my scabs again. I've been crawling on my belly clearing out what could've been I've been wallowing in my own chaotic and insecure delusions. I wanna feel the change consume me, feel the outside turning in. I wanna feel the metamorphosis and cleansing I've endured within my shadow. Change is coming. Now is my time. Listen to my muscle memory. Contemplate what I've been clinging to. Forty-six and two ahead of me. I choose to live and to grow, take and give and to move, learn and love and to cry, kill and die and to be paranoid and to lie, hate and fear and to do what it takes to move through. I choose to live and to lie, kill and give and to die, learn and love and to do what it takes to step through. See my shadow changing, stretching up and over me soften this old armor. hoping I can clear the way by stepping through my shadow, coming out the other side. Step into the shadow. Forty six and two are just ahead of me."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm38Ojh61lY

 

[Nihilmatic]

So I've been spending a lot of time with a couple of very very close kindred spirits who are INTJs.

INTPs are hardly effective in this regard if at all.][/COLOR]<---PLEASE DON'T WASTE TIME IN THIS THREAD DISCUSSING THIS PARTICULAR CONCLUSION OF MINE

I disagree, INTP's are effective in this regard. Look at spiderman.

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

I disagree, INTP's are effective in this regard. Look at spiderman.

Jesus Christ. Please don't comment on this thread again. So ironic.

 

[nanook]

I believe what is really holding me back is my avoidance of being creatively alive to Fe, which results in unconscious obedience to Fe related conditioning, an autopilot of sorts. We have our place in the world, which is for many of us the place of being an obscure irrelevant owl on a tree outside of the house and usually we won't allow changes to happen to this identity, because it makes us way too nervous. It's really going to take a major spiritual break through for our egos to allow for this nervosity to become a part of our life.

Once this nervosity occurs, it acts as a learning process. Our thinking begins to comprehend life, as other people make it happen and then we can interact with it more appropriately.

I think we can't become Te, in fact we are needed to balance the Te in other people, it's the one thing that gives us a unique value in society, once we have implemented this influence. Obviously they don't come begging for us to realize our potential, it's always going to be a battle of thoughts between us and society/Te, so it takes love to be present with that and to be honest and constructive about it, at the same time. Without this love, we act out this drama "I am right and they are too stupid to see it" and we don't have the learning process that comes from being nervous, exposed, vulnerable.

Trying to become Te is the desire of the ego to break into society in a violent manner. Not saying that Te types are violent, although they are. But their Ni/Si directs their violence into a constructively/humane context. If you were to combine Te with Ne, you would have a mindless monster. Probably the way to go, if you really want to become "the one percent".

Of course i could be wrong about being Ti dominant any this whole theory. Perhaps i avoid Fe because i am Fi dominant .... makes me want to delete all of this ...


okay, the real problem is that everyone is wrong, ALL OF THE TIME. you must have noticed, that everyone else is always wrong, but as egos, we can't stand to admit that we are wrong too. we are at best on to something. if we pretend, that our contributions is right, we present it in a violent manner, which causes other people to reject it and us along with it and even if we are real dickheads about it, they will still limit how successful we can be in life. but how can we show up and contribute our partial inspirations to the world, knowing that everything we say is wrong and that everyone else believes they are right and we are the only one who mostly wrong? the ego/separate self illusion can't handle this degradation, because it fears for it's existence. only love can bear the constant negotiation of your own thoughts that comes with the update of reality.

carl jung explains in the chapter about the introverted type, how extroverted reality and introverted reality are equally constructed on the fly, inspired by archetypal pattern, but having only the character of speculation. they are equally reliable, but also, none of them can be taken as objective truth, because this would result in a dogma and the result is a character who is at complete war with the whole world, like we imagine hitler to be.


I have a whole bunch of INFJ on my internet horizon. Through their eyes i get to see the world of Fe. It's disgusting on all levels, i don't want to hear about it. It seems to be the root of all of my suffering, because my anxiety to participate is what has defined me as a looser my whole life. But if there is any way out of society, i have to at least become fully accepting of this world and how it will treat me, when i expose myself by showing up.

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

I believe what is really holding me back is my avoidance of being creatively alive to Fe, which results in unconscious obedience to Fe related conditioning, an autopilot of sorts. We have our place in the world, which is for many of us the place of being an obscure irrelevant owl on a tree outside of the house and usually we won't allow changes to happen to this identity, because it makes us way too nervous. It's really going to take a major spiritual break through for our egos to allow for this nervosity to become a part of our life.

Once this nervosity occurs, it acts as a learning process. Our thinking begins to comprehend life, as other people make it happen and then we can interact with it more appropriately.

I think we can't become Te, in fact we are needed to balance the Te in other people, it's the one thing that gives us a unique value in society, once we have implemented this influence. Obviously they don't come begging for us to realize our potential, it's always going to be a battle of thoughts between us and society/Te, so it takes love to be present with that and to be honest and constructive about it, at the same time. Without this love, we act out this drama "I am right and they are too stupid to see it" and we don't have the learning process that comes from being nervous, exposed, vulnerable.

Trying to become Te is the desire of the ego to break into society in a violent manner. Not saying that Te types are violent, although they are. But their Ni/Si directs their violence into a constructively/humane context. If you were to combine Te with Ne, you would have a mindless monster. Probably the way to go, if you really want to become "the one percent".

Of course i could be wrong about being Ti dominant any this whole theory. Perhaps i avoid Fe because i am Fi dominant .... makes me want to delete all of this ...


okay, the real problem is that everyone is wrong, ALL OF THE TIME. you must have noticed, that everyone else is always wrong, but as egos, we can't stand to admit that we are wrong too. we are at best on to something. if we pretend, that our contributions is right, we present it in a violent manner, which causes other people to reject it and us along with it and even if we are real dickheads about it, they will still limit how successful we can be in life. but how can we show up and contribute our partial inspirations to the world, knowing that everything we say is wrong and that everyone else believes they are right and we are the only one who mostly wrong? the ego/separate self illusion can't handle this degradation, because it fears for it's existence. only love can bear the constant negotiation of your own thoughts that comes with the update of reality.

carl jung explains in the chapter about the introverted type, how extroverted reality and introverted reality are equally constructed on the fly, inspired by archetypal pattern, but having only the character of speculation. they are equally reliable, but also, none of them can be taken as objective truth, because this would result in a dogma and the result is a character who is at complete war with the whole world, like we imagine hitler to be.


I have a whole bunch of INFJ on my internet horizon. Through their eyes i get to see the world of Fe. It's disgusting on all levels, i don't want to hear about it. It seems to be the root of all of my suffering, because my anxiety to participate is what has defined me as a looser my whole life. But if there is any way out of society, i have to at least become fully accepting of this world and how it will treat me, when i expose myself by showing up.

Thank you for your intelligent reply. I'm digesting this now...so much to consider. I think I remember you are INFJ no?

 

[nanook]

while writing this, i assume that i am TiNe, but i am always insecure about the definition of F and T. i think there is very strong evidence that i am not Ni, not a directive type (PiJe structure) but adaptive (JiPe). i also took a look at your picture, before deciding to post my thoughts into this thread. some "INTP" are so utterly different from me, but we might actually be similar.

 

[Absurdity]

It's not Te vs Ti but Te vs Fe. The INTP outward judging function is the thing they're worst at and it's emotional rather than rational.

Sucks bro.

 

[Black Rose]

while writing this, i assume that i am TiNe, but i am always insecure about the definition of F and T. i think there is very strong evidence that i am not Ni, not a directive type (PiJe structure) but adaptive (JiPe). i also took a look at your picture, before deciding to post my thoughts into this thread. some "INTP" are so utterly different from me, but we might actually be similar.

It's not Te vs Ti but Te vs Fe. The INTP outward judging function is the thing they're worst at and it's emotional rather than rational.

Sucks bro.

I've changed my internal representations of type again.
I have to be Ne because my mind is empty when alone a quite.
Nothing pops up when I am isolated and unstimulated as Ni would be.
But I can't be Te because I have no drive / desire to achieve anything.
I think I am like Yellow, I collect Data. Also i like puzzles.
But unlike how some ENTP's are I can access Fe pretty good.
Si is suppressed though, This is why meditation for me sucks.

 

[Inquisitor]

Don't feel bad. INTJs are just more oriented towards establishing themselves within existing external systems. Plus they are not lazy and have few issues with procrastination/willpower. That said, they're inferior in other ways.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

It's not Te vs Ti but Te vs Fe. The INTP outward judging function is the thing they're worst at and it's emotional rather than rational.

Sucks bro.

Haha, so true.

 

[Urakro]

It's not Te vs Ti but Te vs Fe. The INTP outward judging function is the thing they're worst at and it's emotional rather than rational.

Sucks bro.

That was so true, it made my lip quiver. Now I have some itch to find a weakness of INTJ's.

 

[redbaron]

INTP is really just a shit version of ENTJ.

:-D

 

[Hadoblado]

I've been working on this a lot the last few years. By standards of success I'm still a fledgling, but relative to my previous approach I'm worlds ahead.

A few things that have helped me:

Goal orientation: I clearly articulate my goals to myself, even if those goals aren't all that clear. It could be as reactive as not making a bad impression, but once that's clearly stated I am tuned towards that outcome at all times.

Proactive engagement: For INTPs, it's often the case they're more scared of being wrong than they are motivated to be right. This results in a very cautious approach that is not effective for bringing about external goals. I try to have a clear idea of how certain I am of something, and learn to trust myself in things that I am highly certain of. This is like calculating pot odds in poker, all you need is high enough certainty to justify the risk of being wrong. I'm now okay with being wrong so long as I understood that it was a possibility beforehand.

Scaffolding: Anything new I'm doing needs to be grown out of existent motives, understanding, and interest. Forcing yourself to learn something you don't care about is both difficult and inefficient. This leads to keeping an eye out for things you *want* to learn.

Writing: At the moment I write a whole lot. It's still disorganised but slowly getting better. I'm scaffolding my joy of writing into an organisational mindset.

Systematising: Don't just think about systems, make them work. It doesn't matter if it's a lowly chore that you're making more efficient. It's practice, and the more efficient you are at all the small shit the more time you have for the big. How can you do the dishes the most efficiently? Are there steps that can be taken outside of the task at hand to make it more efficient in the future? Can this system generalise to other people who you share the job of dishes? Is it feasible for you to bring them on board with your system?

The way I see it, if you're good at Ti, Te is just a small step away. It's got all the same moving parts, all you need to do is direct it in on itself first (to generate the metacog for seeing how it could be applied elsewhere), then the world.

 

[MellifluousSky]

At least in theory, INTPs are twice cursed by a lack of both Te and Se...it is the latter that might be the real culprit. INTJs have both in their conscious stack and so have much more psychic energy from which to work. Finally, Fe in INTP is rational, it is just not used very well...short of a concerted effort to hone it, which usually comes with age.

I think one of the chief ways that INTPs can connect with others (Fe) is through their competence/expertise. This is the heroic pathway (Fe) that should theoretically allow them to connect with the world. Enneagram 5, to which INTP is prototypical, is always preoccupied with hoarding knowledge, rehearsing and preparing for entrance into the world. They want to have something to bring to the table, but they feel that they never know enough for that to happen...even though what they know is often far in excess of what others possess in the same sphere.

 

[Urakro]

Ti's are more independent and less verbal about this. They keep these things to themselves, and dislike the pressure of someone else's reason of thought.

Te's are different. Rationality must spread from mind to mind. They are very verbal, and have a need to propagate reasoning. They are more dependent on sharing thoughts, and dislike someone keeping their ideas to themselves.

 

[QuickTwist]

I'm an ISFP with a pretty hefty dose of Ni, however, my Te is lacking like you wouldn't believe. If I had just a bit more Te, I feel I could really inspire people. INTJ's can be pretty inspiring given the right motive. Look at Marilyn Manson and all the lives he has influence to indulge for example and he has a pretty big following. Then take Eminem (an ISFP). He has almost single handedly transcended what Rap is through a very developed Te and his following is pretty fucking big.

But really, this goes back to EJ's and their overwhelming need to achieve. The reason EJ's are not really at the top of the food chain is simply because Introverts are simply smarter people on average. The real question is whether it is for individual success or esteem for introverts.

"This is the extravert's danger; he becomes caught up in objects, wholly losing himself in their toils. The functional (nervous) or actual physical disorders which result from this state have a compensatory significance, forcing the subject to an involuntary self-restriction. Should the symptoms be functional, their peculiar formation may symbolically express the psychological situation; a singer, for instance, whose fame quickly reaches a dangerous pitch tempting him to a disproportionate outlay of energy, is suddenly robbed of his high tones by a nervous inhibition. A man of very modest beginnings rapidly reaches a social position of great influence and wide prospects, when suddenly he is overtaken by a psychogenic state, with all the symptoms of mountain-sickness. Again, a man on the point of marrying an idolized woman of doubtful character, whose value he extravagantly over-estimates, is seized with a spasm of the oesophagus, which forces him to a regimen of two cups of milk in the day, demanding his three-hourly attention. All visits to his fianceé are thus effectually stopped, and no choice is left to him but to busy himself with his bodily nourishment. A man who through his own energy and enterprise has built up a vast business, entailing an intolerable burden of work, is afflicted by nervous attacks of thirst, as a result of which he speedily falls a victim to hysterical alcoholism." ~Jung

 

[emmabobary]

Pffffffft
Hahahahhaa
I'm an INTP, I'm finishing my first year of medicine, have my degree on psychology, live alone and work at a coffee shop part time.
I had a very best friend who was INTJ she's 28 unemployed, has dropped two careers, lives at her mom's, etc.
How easy is to generalise

What you got from life isn't some curse of destiny, isn't the product of a cognitive way of functioning that is unchangeable. It is the product of your conscious choices. So understanding that yours can also be a particular case and not only the rule to a typology, may help.
Also the same means doesn't strictly has to work for everyone. I believe in a personalised success and a personalised way to succeed. Goals, means, a whole approach made to your fit can be better than a standardized recipe.

 

[Ex-User (8886)]

I think red color is better than blue.

 

[JimJambones]

I think cognitive functions are descriptive, not prescriptive. You are Ti because you are INTP. CFT just takes an overall personality type and builds hypothetical software programs that cause the personality to come into fruition, without any evidence that such programs exists in the first place. I think our brains are too complicated to reduce to Ti vs Te hypotheticals.

It sounds to me that INTJs "success" can be attributed to being more conscientious in combination with low neuroticism, if one looks at Big Five correlations.

 

[Tannhauser]

Sure, on average, Te has probably a slight advantage over Ti in the practical world, or to achieve "success" by the standards of making a nice six-figure income. So what? The founders of google are typed as INTPs. Ti-Ne is a f***ing gift from above if applied correctly.

 

[Jennywocky]

Practically speaking, it seems an academic exercise to rigidly separate the two. But basically when I approach a problem, I can either focus more on "getting it right" or "getting it done." The two overlap to some degree, but they're not all the same thing. I personally find it easier to work on getting it right and have to spend more energy shifting gears into "geterdun" mode once I find a reasonable degree of certainty that I've gotten it right.

 

[QuickTwist]

Practically speaking, it seems an academic exercise to rigidly separate the two. But basically when I approach a problem, I can either focus more on "getting it right" or "getting it done." The two overlap to some degree, but they're not all the same thing. I personally find it easier to work on getting it right and have to spend more energy shifting gears into "geterdun" mode once I find a reasonable degree of certainty that I've gotten it right.

My problem more lies in getting going. Once I'm in produce mode I'm good to go.

 

[Grayman]

Sometimes well a little more than sometimes I get obsessed with making an idea reality. I have single minded focus on one thing and I move with that focus ignoring the world falling apart around me. I don't sleep much or eat much and my hygiene suffers. Organization and cleanliness go out the window. Once the task is completed or I had reached a working model I rest for a whole day. Sometimes I pushed myself into being sick. After this I go in clean mode and become obsessed in organizing and cleaning the the things I neglected.

This doesn't happen as much now that I am 30. Still I do have minor spurts of obsessing over something.

I call myself unorganized on mbti tests but I wonder if that would falsely making me a Pe.

 

[Aposiopesis]

On the contrary, I find that Te is too busy fussing over stupid bullshit, like which sock goes in which drawer (as opposed to considering why the different socks need to be paired, or if the socks actually need a drawer at all) rather than simply putting on the sock (or not) and getting actual important thinking done.

The real importance is in Ne (or Se) effectively utilizing and/or communicating Ti, and/or in learning how to do so.

In terms of NTs, spontaneously try to get Te to logically explain the magic Ni jiggery-pokery and watch the entertainment unfold before you.

(Semi) joking aside, they're both quite useful in their own ways if their supporting functions are adequately developed. The only advantage Te's have is that it's usually a little easier to make sense of what a bumbling one is trying to do. On the other hand, bumbling Ti is likely to freeze up and do nothing externally, which in some environments is way less dangerous than Te bumbling and thus just as much an advantage as it can be a disadvantage.

 

[green acid]

By the way, about how much Te does an INTP have? MBTI videos tell me that it is there,but it is subconcious. I wondered "is that very much?" I mean is there as much Te as Fe, or does it vary with the individual?

 

[Brontosaurie]

By the way, about how much Te does an INTP have? MBTI videos tell me that it is there,but it is subconcious. I wondered "is that very much?" I mean is there as much Te as Fe, or does it vary with the individual?

Ti-doms and Fe-doms have integrated and balanced Fi&Te since that duality is the opposite duality of the most conflicting and unbalanced duality which naturally is the dom-inf.

Integration of the opposite duality is the secret strength of all types.

 

[Polaris]

I think the issue I have is Ne combined with Ti. It's like they are in a fight, or making up, constantly. Te with Ni seems ideal for getting shit done, particularly combined with Fi. Since Fe is low in the functional stack, it is almost as if it doesn't exist and just pops its head up now and then to interfere and confuse.

I hate being INTP.

LIke Emma, I'm an INTP with two degrees and working painstakingly at research honours to try and nail down some direction in my life. I used to run my own surgery and was part of a greater practice, but I hated the dead end of my options and the fact that I was working for someone else's swimming pool, BMW, or sustaining their wives expensive lifestyles while the practitioners shagged their assistants. I had so- called autonomy, but not really. My expertise was only a means to their financial ends. I got nothing back for it, except a decent pay check which made zero difference to my happiness as I felt trapped and used, and in an intellectual dead end.

So now I am back working at an outdoor equipment shop with a geologist and a landscape architect for managers, a biomed graduate, economics and business graduate, a writer and a physiotherapy failed student as co-workers. Common theme: we are all rebellious anti-authoritarian idiots with various degrees of P'ness stuck in a job that we didn't plan for, but somehow ended up with...because P'ness, independence and restlessness. I kinda like it, but I'm frustrated being the jack of all trades- master of none at my age. I have a weird concoction of backgrounds which makes it very difficult for me to apply for any specific job - so I' m driving myself into specialisation in order to get somewhere I want to be.

Ti goes nuts in any job I have but the lack of direction and meh- ness pertaining to ambition, combined with periods of severe depression and anxiety just fucks it up for me, over and over. Add to that I'm a hopeless gypsy, always ripping up and moving on. I don' t even know if I am running away from or trying to run towards something anymore.

I wish I was a Te dom....I really do.

But superior?

Nah. Depends on how you look at it. From the outside, they seem superior because they achieve definite things. From the inside I see it as quite restrictive. However, that perception becomes a restriction in itself. Just look at my history....

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

I've accepted that I'm not going to be an over-achieving office warrior and instead will dabble in all sorts of trades and ideas and feel lost most of the time. I think it's the way I am and I prefer to be free to fail, try things and say big fuck you to the rest of the world and stupid rules that govern it.

I like Ti and living at my own pace.

 

[PmjPmj]

Everybody shut up and take note of this:

Pffffffft
Hahahahhaa
I'm an INTP, I'm finishing my first year of medicine, have my degree on psychology, live alone and work at a coffee shop part time.
I had a very best friend who was INTJ she's 28 unemployed, has dropped two careers, lives at her mom's, etc.
How easy is to generalise

What you got from life isn't some curse of destiny, isn't the product of a cognitive way of functioning that is unchangeable. It is the product of your conscious choices. So understanding that yours can also be a particular case and not only the rule to a typology, may help.
Also the same means doesn't strictly has to work for everyone. I believe in a personalised success and a personalised way to succeed. Goals, means, a whole approach made to your fit can be better than a standardized recipe.

Thank Christ for this.

Shame on you. Shame on you all.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Thank Christ for this.

Shame on you. Shame on you all.

Isn't this like, totally, blatantly obvious?

It's true that we sometimes miss even the most obvious things.

 

[Jennywocky]

My bitch isn't much different than anyone else's.

I like what I think and perceive, I hate how I never seem to get anything done with it. It's a push/pull where I seem to typically be at war with myself. But everyone has issues where their strengths have to overcome their weaknesses. We are who we are. I just have to keep forcing myself to buckle down and push things to completion without giving up or looking for easy ways around. When I finish things, they're good; it's just finding the drive and focus (and tossing out a lot of extraneous directions) that I have to deal with.

Ti-doms and Fe-doms have integrated and balanced Fi&Te since that duality is the opposite duality of the most conflicting and unbalanced duality which naturally is the dom-inf.

Integration of the opposite duality is the secret strength of all types.

In madness, sanity.
In sanity, madness.

In failure, success.
In success, failure.

In summer, winter.
In winter, summer.

... I'm really good at dualities!
And really bad as well.
SEE??? ^^

 

[TheManBeyond]

the spider is Ti
the mantis is Te

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp_bw7eQMCI

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Seeing the OP is banned really puts a damper on my response.

INTJs might make more money and be more driven, but lots of types make more money and are more driven. INTJs struggle with feeling imperfect and hating it, whereas INTPs just embrace that we are not going to be the overachievers and move on to our next project or interest.

INTJs drink to deal with their Fi feelings but we don't have feelings so even better!

Sorry! I guess I"m supposed to stick to Te/Ti. You can think along dictated lines or create your own lines? Hmmm. Which sounds better to you?

If we eliminate how the world defines success, i.e. having money and power, then INTJs would be revealed as just another yes-man serving the man. INTPs would be revealed as the spry, independent thinker that we are, dependent on no one (except the gov't for our welfare checks).

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Oh, another thing Te-ers do is assume I haven't already thought circles around all of their useless Te suggestions, which they make as if they were some grandiose idea. I understand they are trying to 'help' me, but it just pulls me backwards.

Trying to fix someone who uses Ti a LOT with Te or Fe is so annoying to the Ti user. I feel like it's rare they will find a solution I haven't aready written a thesis on in my head. Of course, my esfj friend can point out ways that I can be more pc (even when I don't wanna be), and given enough time to mull it over, I can come around, and be thankful. But Te-ers, don't think you thought of something that we didn't or couldn't.

I used to think that Ti users were the ones who offered the 'fixing' advice but now I think it's more Je users who do this, especially when it is unbidden, and Ti users only do it when they are cried to by other types, and feel like the person desperately needs help finding a solution.

 

[TheManBeyond]

i don't get the advice thing, i don't ever think that a solution for a given problem, specially emotional ones or unpractical things, like finding a purpose can come from outside of yourself. this is plain bullshit.
this is only you trying to cry and seeking for others to hear u.
kind of a simple way of ephemeral healing, not an ultimate solution.
a solution can take a lifetime, and not everyone finds it so the deal is to keep fighting.

 

[Pizzabeak]

Meh, it isn't really a question of INTJ vs INTP since INTJs aren't even lead thinkers to begin with, like the P is. According to the functional stack.. INTJ is Ni-Te and P is Ti-Ne. That explains a lot.
If anything a more apt comparison would be ENTJ vs INTP, in which case the J is just used to navigating through established conventions and heirarchies, focuses all his/her energy on such. It's mainly just the Se and Fi.

 

[PmjPmj]

Oh, another thing Te-ers do is assume I haven't already thought circles around all of their useless Te suggestions, which they make as if they were some grandiose idea. I understand they are trying to 'help' me, but it just pulls me backwards.

That must be hard for you.