Suicide

[Jesin]

It's definitely filled a hole that I don't think it's good to,

Sorry, what? I couldn't parse that.

 

[NoID10ts]

Being Halloween last night, I decided to scan the internet for disturbing videos and found some of actual suicides. I think it scared me straight (not that I was seriously considering it anyway). I'm not going out like that! It's so gross and undignified! Maybe I should stick around and relish the role of the itch that just can't be scratched.

 

[Agent Intellect]

i've seen a few suicide videos (faces of death). what disturbs me the most is how much the faces of death videos don't really disturb me.

 

[fullerene]

Sorry, what? I couldn't parse that.

Well... just think about all the reasons why you could be using forums in a way that you wouldn't use actual people you know for. Different for everyone, I'm sure... but is it the anonymity of it? The fact that you can just up and leave if people suddenly turn and judge you? That people can't gossip about you to anyone else? That you don't actually have to lay yourself out there for criticism, because you can encase responses behind neutral words?

For every reason that I can come up with why someone could say more about themselves on a forum than to physical people in front of them, there's a reason I don't like the idea. It generally boils down to either hypocrisy or cowardice, in many different forms... not to mention inconsistency.

It'd all be fine if talks revolved around ideas and "stuff," because then you could make the case that you're just on here for discussion topics that fit what you actually like to talk about, as opposed to people around you who generally guide the conversations to avoid controversy. If it starts turning personal, though, I can't see much of a way that it doesn't fit into one of the above categories. Not that it has to... I may just be too stupid to come up with a way that it doesn't... but it looks like it does.

Then you have to ask yourself why things ever turn personal anyway. Even discounting threads like this that pop up every so often, why do we even have a shout club thread? People just seem to need to get stuff like that out of their system somehow... the hole. I suppose it's better than nothing... but I hate the idea of using it as an outlet for things you won't say in person for whatever reason. Cowardice or hypocrisy... I just hate them both, and I think a forum tends to cultivate them.

 

[Auburn]

As true as that is, there is the fact that everyone on this forum is an actual person - as much as I forget that sometimes. Now, if I were talking to a magic eight ball for my problems, then I do see that as unhealthy. However, I see all of you as "actual" people who do have lives of your own - and when I speak to you all, I have that in mind.

My whole purpose for being here is to learn from actual people who are in similar circumstances as I am. To soak up all there is to learn from you, and therefore myself also - and also to share what I can from my own experience.

I see nothing unhealthy in that... ...in fact I see it as very healthy - especially for types as misunderstood and rare as us - to meet with other similar minds, even if it is just to be a little foolish or vent. The way I see it, it'd be more unhealthy to keep bottled up to yourself than to at least share yourself with people who are at least there in 'mind' though not in person. It might be the only way for some of us to preserve our sanity in a world pressuring so many of us to act a certain way.

 

[NoID10ts]

I don't think its cowardice or hypocrisy. Like Auburn says, we have a rare type and its hard to find people to connect with. In my world, honesty from me is met with raised eyebrows and a look of "what the hell are you talking about?" I am surrounded by people who have no idea how to relate to me. I question everything, much to the frustration of my friends and loved ones. Most of the time it isn't a problem because I have learned to adapt. These days I don't even let most people know what I am thinking, but its nice to find a place to let my thoughts out and actually hear feedback without appalling the hearers (too much). Maybe its a fine line we walk, though. If we let this replace all human contact, or genuine human contact, it certainly can become unhealthy.

 

[loveofreason]

It's interesting what cryptonia says, but perhaps oversimplified. Forced to choose between your options, I'd have to call myself a coward, because I want to avoid the repercussions of having these kinds of conversations face to face.

Actually, I'd have to call myself a hypocrite too, because I don't live the personal truthfulness I would advocate as an ideal.

But how have these circumstances arisen? From my earliest memories I have been misunderstood by those around me. And to be fair I misunderstand most everyone else. This has meant every attempt to communicate honestly was met with some form of negative consequence. There's only so much of being kicked in the teeth or betrayed with the information you reveal that any individual will take before they decide it's not worth the risk/pain trying any longer.

I simply learned not to talk to or divulge anything of personal import to those around me as a matter of self-preservation.

If we're here pouring out a little of what ails us, it's not to deprive the 'real' people in our lives, it's because every other ear has turned away. (And I can't afford real therapy .)

In a perfect world we would all have personal confidantes and healthy intimate relationships based on mutual understanding.

Why not consider the opportunity for virtual sharing as the means to overcome scarcity of understanding in the flesh?

 

[Agent Intellect]

in a way, i think posting on a forum is like writing in a diary or journal that will respond back to you. its like you all are my Tyler Durden's.

 

[Waterstiller]

But how have these circumstances arisen? From my earliest memories I have been misunderstood by those around me. And to be fair I misunderstand most everyone else. This has meant every attempt to communicate honestly was met with some form of negative consequence. There's only so much of being kicked in the teeth or betrayed with the information you reveal that any individual will take before they decide it's not worth the risk/pain trying any longer.

Yes.

I don't think that it's cowardly to open up on forums. There simply aren't people around me that I can relate to. I've opened up more on this forum than any other; I usually don't have to explain or repeat myself and it's a lovely feeling. I've been desperately searching for a 'group' of people I felt I could belong with. I've done this for my entire life. Friend after friend, church after church, forum after forum.. each time I found little pieces of what I was looking for, but on this forum I feel like I've finally found a home.

A home where nobody knows my name, what I look like, how I speak, the type of car I drive..? Yeah. None of that stuff really matters anyways, does it? It's raw communication with nothing but our ideas and emotions behind our characters. I need people in real life that I can hug, touch, smell, laugh with, lay with, eat with, be quiet with, cry with, stutter with, be surprised by, and all that other good fleshy stuff. They help me appreciate the seconds. But they also frustrate me since they're so radically different from me; they make me feel alone most of the time. But that's where this forum comes in.. It's not cowardice to fulfill a need that isn't being satisfied through traditional methods.

 

[fullerene]

These are compelling ways to think about it.... I haven't abandoned this thread, I'm just thinking. There were a bunch of good points made

 

[Jennywocky]

in a way, i think posting on a forum is like writing in a diary or journal that will respond back to you. its like you all are my Tyler Durden's.

Except I'm far better looking.

I don't think that it's cowardly to open up on forums. There simply aren't people around me that I can relate to. I've opened up more on this forum than any other; I usually don't have to explain or repeat myself and it's a lovely feeling. I've been desperately searching for a 'group' of people I felt I could belong with. I've done this for my entire life. Friend after friend, church after church, forum after forum.. each time I found little pieces of what I was looking for, but on this forum I feel like I've finally found a home.

I remember the first time I went on INTPc, in 2006. Wow. It just blew me away. Even if I still am radically different in some ways from the bulk of that forum, I did finally find a place where I could just say what I was thinking, be understood without much explanation, and not have to coddle everyone or hold back.

Have y'all studied the three working variants for Enneagram?
Sexual (sx) = focus on one-on-one intimacy, sharing of secrets and core thoughts
Social (so) = focus on one's place in the community, networking, broader interactions, sharing of expertise
self-preservation (sp) = focus on having a safe place of one's own, self-protective, tends to withdraw and develop aloneness as a strength

For most of my life I had to operate in sp mode and was very alone because I couldn't trust people, but it was killing me because I really am far more sx. I get charged off forging those one-on-one relationships where I can tell anyone about anything inside of me, and I know everything about who they are -- it's like a meeting of "Essence." If someone won't progress to that stage with me, it's hard for me to invest a lot. I really want to know Who They Are, in order to connect as fully as possible with them.

Forums have seemed to have a higher number of SX people I could connect with, plus the medium is conducive to that as well. It was very hard for me to find that in IRL.

A home where nobody knows my name, what I look like, how I speak, the type of car I drive..? Yeah. None of that stuff really matters anyways, does it? It's raw communication with nothing but our ideas and emotions behind our characters. I need people in real life that I can hug, touch, smell, laugh with, lay with, eat with, be quiet with, cry with, stutter with, be surprised by, and all that other good fleshy stuff. They help me appreciate the seconds. But they also frustrate me since they're so radically different from me; they make me feel alone most of the time. But that's where this forum comes in.. It's not cowardice to fulfill a need that isn't being satisfied through traditional methods.

Yup, I agree that we need Real Life relationships and people to engage with in all dimensions. But sometimes when you need "soul hugs," you gotta go to where those people are. It was the people online who opened themselves to me and were willing to embrace me as well that gave me the strength to be able to deal with and build substantial relationships in the external world.