Star Wars: the Force Awakens

[Nebulous]

I only saw this movie a few weeks ago; it was great. I love the characters and have been wanting to type them with you guys but didn't know which thread to do that on.. finally decided to just make my own.

This thread isn't solely for typing though. Feel free to discuss any theories, headcanons, etc. Or the psychology of the characters.

This is the only Star Wars movie I've seen so far (pls don't kill me it's my parents' fault) so I'd appreciate if major spoilers for the other movies were avoided. Or at least put them in spoiler tag and state that they are actually a spoiler. Sorry for being annoying but thanks



~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Rey: ISTP, maybe INTP?

Spoiler

Introverted. She lives alone in a desert and seems not to have any friends, and doesn't go out of her way to socialize even when she's around others. She's also really independent.
She's very quick to figure things out (flying the Falcon, using the force) which seems like Ti. Could be a judger or perceiver. She's really good which machines. ISTP, I don't really see her as an INTP but im not ruling out the possibility.
She does remind a lot of the INFPs I know, actually. But not so much which the Fi part.. And that's an INFP's Dom function.. Hmm. ISTP, maybe INTP.

Finn: ENFP?

Spoiler

absolute cinnamon roll. Strikes me as ExFP. Reminds me of my ENFP sister. I'd need to see more of him to type him though.
I mean he's been a Storm Trooper for his whole life... So that's a huge factor in his psychology.

Poe: ESTP or ISTP

Spoiler

He seems like he has Se as one of his top two functions. A talented pilot who's cool in the face of danger. ISTP, ISFP, ESTP, ESFP. I really doubt he's SF though. He seems like a thinker. Then again we haven't really gotten to know him yet. I'd say ESTP or ISTP.

Kylo Ren: unhealthy INFJ
Favorite character. I hated him after first watching the movie, but he is extremely relatable and has definitely grown on me. A lot. I think he has Borderline Personality Disorder.

Spoiler

The whole "struggle between good and evil" thing he's got going seems pretty Fi... Could it also be a Ni-Fe thing though? Maybe he's an INFJ?

He definitely has some emotional issues. I personally think it's BPD (borderline personality disorder)

Spoiler

Borderline Personality Disorder
People may experience:
Behavioral: antisocial behavior, compulsive behavior, hostility, impulsivity, irritability, risky behavior, self-destructive behavior, self-harm, social isolation, or lack of restraint
Mood: anger, anxiety, general discontent, guilt, loneliness, mood swings, or sadness
Psychological: depression, distorted self-image, grandiosity, or narcissism

BPD is a lot more complicated than just those symptoms, but he does fit them.
(I have emotional dysregulation, which is the base of BPD, but I've been to therapy. Kylo at least has emotional dysregulation. Poor dude really would benefit from getting a therapist.)
Anyways, BPD really complicates trying to type someone.

Kylo seems dependent on other people/ other external things in order to decide who he is. That seems more Fe than Fi. Dependency is a big part of BPD. You'll get obsessive over receiving approval from your "favorite person". If you feel like they've wronged you in some way, you'll "split" on them. Splitting is really emotionally intense and really sucks. A lot of people who've struggled with BPD are afraid of splitting. You can split on anything; people, beliefs, etc.
I believe that Kylo, as a child, idealized his father, but ended up splitting on him when he got older for some reason. Splitting on a parent really messes you up, I speak from experience. You don't want anything to do with them. Changing your appearance, aspects of yourself that your parent loved- Kylo even changed his name. (I bet he dyes his hair too.) It's extreme rebellion. Kylo rejected having his father and embraced the things that he thought would break Han the most- the Dark side. It isn't just spite, even though that was a big motive in the midst of the emotional turmoil. Another symptom of BPD is black and white thinking. In splitting from Han Solo, Kylo also split on the things his father stood for, such as the Light side.
Dyed hair, black clothes, new name, new game.
Now his new object of obsession is the Dark side, and his "favorite person" is his grandpa Darth Vader.

In this context, splitting refers to a primitive mechanism of defense characterized by a polarization of good feelings and bad feelings, of love and hate, of attachment and rejection. Splitting, archetypally imbedded in a patient's psychic structure, acts as a powerful unconscious force to protect against the ego's perception of dangerous anxiety and intense affects. Rather than providing real protection, splitting leads to destructive behavior and turmoil in patients' lives.

So... I feel like a lot of his actions can be explained more by BPD than by type.

// My poor babe and his flawed coping mechanisms I want to hug him until he gets annoyed and force chokes me //

He acts on his emotions a lot, yes, but that alone doesn't necessarily mean he's F.
What does provide evidence of him being a feeler is that he tries to manipulate people and play mind games.
I, an INTP, don't manipulate people unless it's last resort.

I think he's an INFJ with BPD who should really see a therapist at least weekly. Mood stabilizers and DBT might be a good idea too in his case.
~~~

Also I love his light saber so much?! Firstly, the design is brilliant. All light sabers should have cross guards... I think one too many hands have been cut off in the other films... Secondly, the saber is symbolic of Kylo himself. Roboregs on tumblr pointed out that "it's a crudely assembled saber with modern components that mirror an ancient design."

Theory- I bet he's going to have a redemption arc in the next movies. I'm really excited to see how it'll play out.

Ships- I ship him with General Hux. (The angry ginger space Nazi.) I'm honestly such Kylux trash it's terrible.
A bunch of people ship him with Rey. I definitely didn't at first, the ship actually really bothered me. I typically have a hard time shipping hetero stuff bc I'm just too gay to understand that sort of relationship, also I view Rey as either aro-ace or lesbian. But if there is a Kylo redemption arc, then "Reylo" might end up being a thing. And as long as it's done well in the movies I'm fine with that

Other stuff- y'all should check out the Twitter account "Emo Kylo Ren". It's hilarious.
Also, he reminds me a lot of Loki. (Tall pale angsty emo with dark hair and daddy issues) I think Loki is INFJ so like there's another tally for INFJ Kylo

General Hux: ESTJ

Spoiler

He's probably xSTJ. Maybe ENTJ, but definitely has a more xSTJ role. ESTJ most likely. (Not to typist but they're not exactly my favorite type.)

 

[Redfire]

It was one of the worst movies I've seen in my life, and I walked in with low expectations. It was even worse than I thought. Just a bad replica of Episode IV. How can people not see that, there's even one scene which is exactly the same, the aliens talking gibberish in the pub, except now they have more money and make it more realistic.

Terrible acting, terrible plot. It look Luke a lot of training to be able to wield a lightsaber, Finn learns in two seconds? Rey at least had some experience with that stick she uses, but it's still unrealistic. Plus, Rey is force-sensitive, so again: she learns how to manipulate people out of nowhere? No training? Ridiculous.

Kylo has been training for his entire life, he should've easily overpowered anyone else in the movie. And he's ''tempted by the light''? Where, and I mean WHERE, in the whole universe, have you seen a situation where you are tempted by goodness? It's always the other way around, it's human nature. Goodness is just resisting evil temptations, not the other way around. His lightsaber design also looks stupid to me, although I may be wrong there (to me it looks like a pathetic attempt at creativity in a film full of overused tropes)

There's no middle ground. Characters are either good or evil. And the evil ones had to resemble, of course, the Nazis. Supreme Leader? They couldn't even come up with a decent title for the Bid Bad guy? It's straight out of TV Tropes: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigBad
Jesus, try WRITING something.

What a waste of potential. I remember Kubrick said he was disappointed by film as an art, since so many movies are just mindless action with no real stories behind them, even though the writer is the cheapest part of the film's production. There are SO MANY brilliant writers nowadays looking for work, WHY IN GOD'S NAME couldn't they hire any of them?

Third highest-grossing film of all time. Unbelievable.

I could go on for hours, but I think I made my point.

 

[Jennywocky]

Well, then...

 

[QuickTwist]

Its not that bad. I overheard some people talking about the next movie that they somehow got a copy of the next script, and apparently there is a reason why Rey is good with the lightsaber.

I'm honestly looking forward to the next one. Is it the greatest movie of all time? Yeah, IDK about that, but it was enjoyable and I even say it twice in theatres.

Most of Redfie's complaints are that the movie took a different take on some things, which to me, is nice rather than something to scoff at. But that's just me I'm sure.

 

[Sinny91]

Never really been a fan of Star wars.. More of a Trekkie girl.

For a start, I don't even know what order to watch the damn movies in... And a couple of them were a bit like.. blehhh.

I like the concept, that's about it.

 

[Jennywocky]

I had mixed feelings about the movie. I think expectations play a strong role in how one reacts to it. If you view it like a bridge between the "New Hope" trilogy and the future stories, then it functions properly; and after the disaster that was the prequels, my perception is that they wanted to broadcast to everyone "Yes, this IS the Star Wars you knew and loved, but modernized." It wasn't really attempting to break new or different ground, it was an "interview" of sorts with the fans while setting up the next movie.

Based on Ryan Johnson's personal body of work + his work in TV, I'm expecting something psychologically deeper and off the beaten track. This is the guy who made Brick, The Brothers Bloom, and Looper; it's going to be more unique, and he's even writing the script for the last part, which hopefully will balance out having "Jurassic World" (meh) guy directing it.

Its not that bad. I overheard some people talking about the next movie that they somehow got a copy of the next script, and apparently there is a reason why Rey is good with the lightsaber.

I've seen the movie a few times, and she isn't actually that good in her first showing, if you watch the fight... she's competent enough but not great. Kylo presses her a number of times. It looks intentional. yet the fight was still balanced at the time. The deal is this:

- She's obviously good with the electrostaff or whatever it is she's using. We saw her take out multiple opponents earlier in the movie. She had to be able to defend herself in wild west she grew up in, a young girl alone. She's also an agile fighter, part of saber fighting.

- Much of her saber moves were jabs and blocks. Duh. She's great with an electrostaff! In fact, it should leap out -- because we're so used to seeing saber fights with sweeping flourishes, the "traditional" fight. She's untrained with the saber. She uses it in the only way she knows how.

- Kylo is trained in the traditional way. And while he's a badass in his current environment, he's certainly not adept with a saber in the way the jedi during the wars had to be, where they were fighting opponents of equal power and also tossing new things at him. He's the big fish in the little pond; he has trouble with things outside the box. When she's throwing jabs at him with the saber, he has no clue what to do with them, they throw off his rhythm. Note how much better he does with Finn, who fights as expected.

- Kylo is badly hurt, after taking the bowcaster in the side. In fact, that's why he keeps beating his side during the fight; he's in a lot of pain, and it also inhibits his movements. He also just killed you-know-who and it's clear it did not bring him the relief he sought, so he's distracted. Psychologically, he's not that tough.

- It's pretty apparent that Rey also had her Force Sensitivity blocked off by a wall of sorts, that Kylo broke when he tried to mess with her head. What was behind that wall? Why was it there? We don't know. But obviously there was something there, as she is able to not just fight off his mental intrusion but push back, and suddenly she's becoming aware... so aware that during the fight with Kylo, where he's telling her he can train her, she's wrestling with the Dark Side (that long moment when she's closing her eyes and going within). In the end, at that point in time, she rejects it... but she's tapping into something bigger.

Anyway, if Kylo had been fresh and unwounded and prepared for things, the outcome would have been inevitable. But based on context? Sure.

It look Luke a lot of training to be able to wield a lightsaber, Finn learns in two seconds?

I think what you're forgetting is that Luke had no training in fighting whatsoever. He was just a bum kid stuck in the backworld of Tatooine. He was a decent pilot. That's all. But hand to hand? Remember how those Tusken Raiders clubbed him like a baby seal? His training started from SCRATCH.

Finn was taken from his parents, psychologically imprinted, and trained his entire life in a variety of weapons. it's what he does as the Stormtrooper group he's part of. Didn't you see all the weapons he knows how to use? he can't fly well, but he can pick up a number of different weapon schools (ranged and melee) and use them.

Even then, he's not actually that good with the saber; the few times he tries to use it, he doesn't do so hot. (He killed a few folks who didn't see it coming, then got clobbered by his buddy with the shock glaive or whatever when there was actually a real fight. it's pretty clear it's not a weapon he's been trained in.)

So he's had a few uses by the time he faces Kylo, but he really doesn't last long, and he's pressed by Kylo the entire time and almost takes a mortal wound. It looked about on par with what I'd expect from someone who has familiarity with a broad class of weapons but not that particular type of weapon.

...and Ren's just a kid. He's no Anakin. Even his saber is made of cobbled together parts and doesn't function as expected.

 

[Nebulous]

Never really been a fan of Star wars.. More of a Trekkie girl.

For a start, I don't even know what order to watch the damn movies in... And a couple of them were a bit like.. blehhh.

I like the concept, that's about it.

Yeah I'm more of a Trekkie too I did enjoy this movie though. The plot wasn't amazing, but the characters were (imo) and it was a cool intro to Star Wars for me.

 

[Jennywocky]

Never really been a fan of Star wars.. More of a Trekkie girl.

For a start, I don't even know what order to watch the damn movies in... And a couple of them were a bit like.. blehhh.

I like the concept, that's about it.

I'll be honest: I like the licenses (like for the video games and spinoffs) more than much of the core movie stuff. I'm finishing up another character arc on SWTOR right now (Imperial Agent) and it's been pretty cool... and I never even had to wield a lightsaber. Bounty Hunter was fun too. I'm glad they could make the non-Force sensitives playable and interesting.

 

[Nebulous]

Something I don't really understand is Kylo's obsession with Darth Vader. Like yo, that's your grandpa, chill. It just seems really weird to me
And does it tie into his type at all?
"I'll finish what you started" seems sorta Si.

I hope we get some more insight in the next movie.

Also do you guys agree with the BPD thing or think he has something else?

 

[Sinny91]

I'll be honest: I like the licenses (like for the video games and spinoffs) more than much of the core movie stuff. I'm finishing up another character arc on SWTOR right now (Imperial Agent) and it's been pretty cool... and I never even had to wield a lightsaber. Bounty Hunter was fun too. I'm glad they could make the non-Force sensitives playable and interesting.

You guys always loose me where you start speaking ..... SWTOR type stuff lol.

But yea, I like the Universes created... much more freedom to do as we wilt, even if we don't like the originals.

Wasn't there a thing in Star was where Luke wanted to bash his sister or something? I've been forever curious about that but without ever investigating.

 

[QuickTwist]

I had mixed feelings about the movie. I think expectations play a strong role in how one reacts to it. If you view it like a bridge between the "New Hope" trilogy and the future stories, then it functions properly; and after the disaster that was the prequels, my perception is that they wanted to broadcast to everyone "Yes, this IS the Star Wars you knew and loved, but modernized." It wasn't really attempting to break new or different ground, it was an "interview" of sorts with the fans while setting up the next movie.

Based on Ryan Johnson's personal body of work + his work in TV, I'm expecting something psychologically deeper and off the beaten track. This is the guy who made Brick, The Brothers Bloom, and Looper; it's going to be more unique, and he's even writing the script for the last part, which hopefully will balance out having "Jurassic World" (meh) guy directing it.



I've seen the movie a few times, and she isn't actually that good in her first showing, if you watch the fight... she's competent enough but not great. Kylo presses her a number of times. It looks intentional. yet the fight was still balanced at the time. The deal is this:

- She's obviously good with the electrostaff or whatever it is she's using. We saw her take out multiple opponents earlier in the movie. She had to be able to defend herself in wild west she grew up in, a young girl alone. She's also an agile fighter, part of saber fighting.

- Much of her saber moves were jabs and blocks. Duh. She's great with an electrostaff! In fact, it should leap out -- because we're so used to seeing saber fights with sweeping flourishes, the "traditional" fight. She's untrained with the saber. She uses it in the only way she knows how.

- Kylo is trained in the traditional way. And while he's a badass in his current environment, he's certainly not adept with a saber in the way the jedi during the wars had to be, where they were fighting opponents of equal power and also tossing new things at him. He's the big fish in the little pond; he has trouble with things outside the box. When she's throwing jabs at him with the saber, he has no clue what to do with them, they throw off his rhythm. Note how much better he does with Finn, who fights as expected.

- Kylo is badly hurt, after taking the bowcaster in the side. In fact, that's why he keeps beating his side during the fight; he's in a lot of pain, and it also inhibits his movements. He also just killed you-know-who and it's clear it did not bring him the relief he sought, so he's distracted. Psychologically, he's not that tough.

- It's pretty apparent that Rey also had her Force Sensitivity blocked off by a wall of sorts, that Kylo broke when he tried to mess with her head. What was behind that wall? Why was it there? We don't know. But obviously there was something there, as she is able to not just fight off his mental intrusion but push back, and suddenly she's becoming aware... so aware that during the fight with Kylo, where he's telling her he can train her, she's wrestling with the Dark Side (that long moment when she's closing her eyes and going within). In the end, at that point in time, she rejects it... but she's tapping into something bigger.

Anyway, if Kylo had been fresh and unwounded and prepared for things, the outcome would have been inevitable. But based on context? Sure.



I think what you're forgetting is that Luke had no training in fighting whatsoever. He was just a bum kid stuck in the backworld of Tatooine. He was a decent pilot. That's all. But hand to hand? Remember how those Tusken Raiders clubbed him like a baby seal? His training started from SCRATCH.

Finn was taken from his parents, psychologically imprinted, and trained his entire life in a variety of weapons. it's what he does as the Stormtrooper group he's part of. Didn't you see all the weapons he knows how to use? he can't fly well, but he can pick up a number of different weapon schools (ranged and melee) and use them.

Even then, he's not actually that good with the saber; the few times he tries to use it, he doesn't do so hot. (He killed a few folks who didn't see it coming, then got clobbered by his buddy with the shock glaive or whatever when there was actually a real fight. it's pretty clear it's not a weapon he's been trained in.)

So he's had a few uses by the time he faces Kylo, but he really doesn't last long, and he's pressed by Kylo the entire time and almost takes a mortal wound. It looked about on par with what I'd expect from someone who has familiarity with a broad class of weapons but not that particular type of weapon.

...and Ren's just a kid. He's no Anakin. Even his saber is made of cobbled together parts and doesn't function as expected.

Its nice to hear an alternate well thought out perspective.

 

[Jennywocky]

You guys always loose me where you start speaking ..... SWTOR type stuff lol.

Oh, sorry: "Star Wars: The Old Republic." It's the official MMO for Star Wars setting, it takes place centuries before the movies. So you can play different types of character classes (including Jedi and Sith, but bounty hunters, agents, space pirates like Han Solo, trooper types, etc).

each class has a series of "class quests" that advance a story line, and the people with you change based on how you interact with them. you also have Light Side and Dark Side ratings that will change based on your choices. Some of the story lines are pretty cool.

Wasn't there a thing in Star was where Luke wanted to bash his sister or something? I've been forever curious about that but without ever investigating.

I dunno. I didn't really read any of the books or comics. Much of that (Expanded Universe?) got retcon'ed out when Disney bought the Star Wars property.

 

[Sinny91]

Oh, sorry: "Star Wars: The Old Republic." It's the official MMO for Star Wars setting, it takes place centuries before the movies. So you can play different types of character classes (including Jedi and Sith, but bounty hunters, agents, space pirates like Han Solo, trooper types, etc).

each class has a series of "class quests" that advance a story line, and the people with you change based on how you interact with them. you also have Light Side and Dark Side ratings that will change based on your choices. Some of the story lines are pretty cool.

Ah. I'm not much of gamer.. I just can't seem to get into MMO's.

I really enjoy Age of Empires.... The Sims, Dragon Age and Assassins Creed.
Apart from that.. just bit of COD, maybe a bit of GTA.. I sometime's revisit the old birds eye view:

​

I'm stuck in a nostalgic world where Tekken, Bloody Roar, Spyro, and Odd World still rule.

I have tried searching for some newer games, but I just don't seem to click with them.
I think MMO's are too busy for my liking.. I like to play alone.
I think anyway, I haven't thought about it too much.. Or tried my best tbf. I'm jealous of you all, those of you who currently have your gaming needs fulfilled.

I dunno. I didn't really read any of the books or comics. Much of that (Expanded Universe?) got retcon'ed out when Disney bought the Star Wars property.

Oh well that explains some, I knew the fact, but I hadn't reflected it.

 

[Jennywocky]

Ah. I'm not much of gamer.. I just can't seem to get into MMO's.

I really enjoy Age of Empires.... The Sims, Dragon Age and Assassins Creed.

I did DA 1&2, I have DA: Inquisitor but just haven't played very far into it.

I'm stuck in a nostalgic world where Tekken, Bloody Roar, Spyro, and Odd World still rule.

Tekken. heh....

I played more Street Fighter and Virtua Fighter, but it was still fun.

I think MMO's are too busy for my liking.. I like to play alone.

Well, I'm a loner too. I hate being hemmed in by someone else's schedule. If I had close friends who played, I'd quest with them.

I did do the Pick-up Raid circuit in Wow's "Mists of Pandaria," but I got sick of all the crap. There were just a lot of a-holes playing. Plus, the legendary quests got to be a pointless grind... and for what, gear that I can use to keep grinding?

I pretty much solo SWTOR. You actually accumulate a pool of 5 crew characters throughout the story line, so you always have a computer-controlled extra along to either Tank, DPS, or Heal for you, and the AI is decent enough. You pretty much never have to team aside from Raid stuff.

I do the Heroic +2 instances solo.

I think

anyway, I haven't thought about it too much.. Or tried my best tbf. I'm jealous of you all, those of you who currently have your gaming needs fulfilled.

I wouldn't say that I'm satisfied. I'd probably like to just have a few close friends who could just run around and create havoc.

When I played City of Heroes, I was in one guild for a short period of time, and they were very small and cohesive and laid back and cool. We started with low-level characters and just chewed up the game. I was even doing the heal/buff bot thing, and it was still fun because I was having to push my limits to the max to keep everyone alive -- who do I heal when, how do I split my energy, who do I slap with a buff versus a heal, who's going to get clobbered in a moment, etc. We were pretty tight.

Then we hit the endgame, and after a short recess, everyone was gone. Meh.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Rey: ISTP (iirc)
Finn: ISFJ (ENFP - whaaat?)
Kylo Ren: INFP

 

[Nebulous]

Yeah I'm going with ISTP for Rey.

ISFJ Finn? Why? I'm mostly going off vibes here, whoops, but he seems ExFP to me. Doesn't plan things out, makes decisions based on how he's feeling (leaving the Stormtroopers), is quick to make friends with Poe and Rey in a way that says "extroversion". And he reminds me a lot of my ENFP sister, especially how he acts when under stress/anxiety.

Kylo as INFP.. Hmm. I guess INFJs plan things out more. Everything Ni-doms do tends to seem deliberate. Kylo is more sporadic. Fi-dom~ his 'good vs evil' crisis

I can see how INFP could fit him.

 

[Jennywocky]

Kylo as INFP.. Hmm. I guess INFJs plan things out more. Everything Ni-doms do tends to seem deliberate. Kylo is more sporadic. Fi-dom~ his 'good vs evil' crisis

I can see how INFP could fit him.

He has daddy issues, and submerged rage.

 

[redbaron]

Kylo Ren is by far the most disappointing villain ever. I still liked the movies but god damn he was such a little bitch. The worst part is that in the beginning he looked like the most badass of badasses to ever badass.

By the end though he looked like an angsty toddler.

 

[Nebulous]

Kylo still is pretty badass, in my opinion.
He's really strong in the Force (which might be partially responsible for his strong emotions? Can the Force do that?)
He got hit by Chewie's weapon and went outside in the cold, had a lightsaber fight against two people while bleeding.
In spite of how emotionally tortured the poor dude is, he has still accomplished tons of training, (school is hard when you're messed up) and he's probably accomplished plenty as leader of the dark side or whatever his title is.

But yea he totally listens to My Chemical Romance a bit too often.
He also, in all seriousness, should get a therapist. He has probably been too proud to do so thus far.

 

[redbaron]

He's not a badass. For the sake of brevity I'm not going to go into why regardless of injury or Rey's strength in the force, Kylo losing the duel was a great big 'fuck you' to every decent movie villain of the past. Or why Rey's ability to use Jedi mind tricks untrained and fight with lightsabers is fucking stupid.

But I will draw some comparisons to other successful movie villains though, and all the ways in which Kylo Ren becomes worthless as a villain beyond the 15 minute mark.

Darth Vader:
- Force chokes people who give him attitude
- Mercilessly cuts down his former master
- Cuts off his own sons hand and lets him fall to his (presumed) death
- At all points of the story, he's the ultimate badass and it's only after long years of training that Luke finally manages to best him in single combat.

Agent Smith:
- Faster and stronger than any of the protagonists
- Everyone isshit scared of him and the other agents, no one wants to fight them and we learn that every single person that has ever fought an agent has died
- Even Morpheus gets his ass handed to him by an Agent
- Is finally defeated by 'The One' at the very end of the movie

In the sequels (which were mostly shit) he was still portrayed well. He'd essentially become a virus hellbent on replication and even though the rest of those movies was pretty shitty, you still never doubted Agent Smith's power or his dedication to his cause.

Sauron:
- Killed like 30 people with two swings of a mace
- Enslaved 9 human kings and turned them into wraiths that do his bidding
- Can gather all evil in the lands to him, rallying massive armies to his cause
- Is hellbent on the domination of Middle-Earth

Kylo Ren:
- when people give him attitude he sulks and destroys computer consoles
- whines to Darth Vader's mask about how much of a self-admitted pussy he is
- he kills his dad, but it wasn't merciless like the way DV killed Obi-Wan, so it didn't make him look like any less of a bitch
- apart from his opening sequence in the movie, we never feel like he's this overwhelmingly powerful villain.

The very last part is by far the worst thing about the entire movie. It's not about whether in specifics or analysis Kylo Ren is powerful, it's about how he's portrayed in the film. People in the cinema were laughing at Kylo Ren's character. He was a joke of a villain and by far the worst part about the entire movie.

The only way they can redeem him is if he returns in the next movie as an all-powerful badass.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

Why did Disney have to take over? Have you seen their channel? No wonder Kylo is such a bitch.

Him losing in his duel to Rey (and her untrained badassness) ruined the movie for me. I mean the Supreme, giant and old as fuck Sith OG boss is his master and he's a loser.

WHY DID HAN SOLO HAVE TO DIE?!!! He was the best hustler in the galaxy.

Unless (speculation time) she's had training in the past but when Kylo turned on Luke, she and the other trainees(?) may have had their minds messed with to protect them from the New World First Order.

 

[Nebulous]

He's not a badass.

Kylo Ren:
- when people give him attitude he sulks and destroys computer consoles
- whines to Darth Vader's mask about how much of a self-admitted pussy he is
- he kills his dad, but it wasn't merciless like the way DV killed Obi-Wan, so it didn't make him look like any less of a bitch
- apart from his opening sequence in the movie, we never feel like he's this overwhelmingly powerful villain.

The very last part is by far the worst thing about the entire movie.

My initial response would be to disagree but like
I can't really
W h o o ps

I like Kylo as a character, but I now agree that he could have been a lot better in the movie if he were a more powerful villain.

It's not about whether in specifics or analysis Kylo Ren is powerful, it's about how he's portrayed in the film.

True true good point

People in the cinema were laughing at Kylo Ren's character. He was a joke of a villain and by far the worst part about the entire movie.

aw babe ;0; *protects Kylo from da haters* I don't see him as a joke but I'm sure a ton of other people did... I actually disliked him a lot, enough to say I hated him, during & after seeing the movie. But then, after obsessing over all the characters, realized he was the most relatable... :/ ...which bothered me, but then I got into the fandom stuff, and accepted it. Idk.
Basically I hated him but then descended into the Kylo trash can


'Aight. He is objectively not a badass...*whispers* not even subjectively...
(I knew I was sorta lying before when I said he was a badass. Swayed by emotion there; tryin to defend him whoops. All my instincts scream "pROTECT HIM")

The only way they can redeem him is if he returns in the next movie as an all-powerful badass.

I think he'll have some sort of redemption arc, but maybe not immediately..
It would be cool if he were an all-powerful badass though.

I think they didn't make him a full-out badass awesome villain because they were planning a redemption arc.
For example- If they had him just mercilessly stab Han, a very beloved character, I think a lot of the audience would have a hard time being okay with Kylo's redemption. Or would say it can't happen in the first place.
(I think they should have made him a villain who could be considered badass, but also has some relatable aspects and struggles a bit with the good vs evil thing. I'm fine with the redemption thing but badass ruthless evil Kylo sounds great. Ah well, I'll go write a fanfic or something)

 

[QuickTwist]

Kylo Ren is an INFP and a very real human with real strengths and weaknesses. That's why I like him.

 

[Nebulous]

Kylo Ren is an INFP and a very real human with real strengths and weaknesses. That's why I like him.

*laughs crazily* yess... yESS YESSSS MHWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

[Nebulous]

http://youtu.be/FaOSCASqLsE

^ I'm considering this as 100% canon ^

http://youtu.be/gJ3mGQAFS6I

Spoiler

This is also a thing which is pretty cool
http://youtu.be/ZTLAx3VDX7g

 

[cheese]

And he's ''tempted by the light''? Where, and I mean WHERE, in the whole universe, have you seen a situation where you are tempted by goodness? It's always the other way around, it's human nature. Goodness is just resisting evil temptations, not the other way around.

That's not true in my experience. You can want to do the shitty thing but feel drawn towards something good against your will. Empathy, love, sympathy can all feel 'tempting' - pulling you towards something which might be inconvenient for you. Your heart softens and a drive towards 'goodness' develops, in conflict with your initial aims. Reluctant heros work this way. They can't walk away from their conscience.

Both sides have the power to pull. Goodness isn't just a heroic act of willpower against everything you *actually* want to do. It can go both ways.

(Also good post on the fighting styles Jenny. Gave me a lot of stuff I didn't know.)

I think Finn is ENFP as well. He's bubbly, goofy, silly and has a soft heart.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Yeah I'm going with ISTP for Rey.

ISFJ Finn? Why? I'm mostly going off vibes here, whoops, but he seems ExFP to me. Doesn't plan things out, makes decisions based on how he's feeling (leaving the Stormtroopers), is quick to make friends with Poe and Rey in a way that says "extroversion". And he reminds me a lot of my ENFP sister, especially how he acts when under stress/anxiety.

Kylo as INFP.. Hmm. I guess INFJs plan things out more. Everything Ni-doms do tends to seem deliberate. Kylo is more sporadic. Fi-dom~ his 'good vs evil' crisis

I can see how INFP could fit him.

Clearly, Finn isn't a habitual out-of-the-box thinker but rather someone compelled by his morality and compassion to break the rules, which takes him on a transformative adventure holding many surprises. He is still hesitant, and has respect for authority. In order to fulfill his mission, he needs to continuously challenge his native presumptions - even as he has decided on rebellion - and friendship, by extension, serves this purpose.

Look at him. Vulnerably trusting eyes routinely taken off-guard by the suggestion of some possibility that his dutiful constitution had previously prohibited. A stocky, comfortable body. A concrete, linear style of movement.

If that dude is supposed to be ENFP, the casting is terrible. I think he's just meant to be a very down-to-earth, ordinary person doing something exceptional - roughly translatable to ISFJ forced into Ne by circumstance and duty. A rather classical hero trope i'd say. The whole point of Finn is how much courage it takes for him to break the mold. Bottom line, he is defined by ISFJ core values: Friendship and the immutable imperative of fair play. He may not possess the full perspective but insofar as he does, he will not fail to abide by what he knows to be justice. This is the opposite of xNxP tendency toward avid observation, flexible morality and layers of rationalization, where the strength is imagination rather than accountability.

He is not at all reminiscent of ENFP nor ESFP. For ENFP reference look at Danny from Bloodline. For ESFP reference look at Judy from Zootopia. Those heroic struggles are completely different from the one we see in Finn.

 

[kora]

I like jennywocky's breakdown of Star Wars as much as her breakdown of US politics. I agree with everyone who said positive stuff about the movie

 

[Intolerable]

Star Wars is something you watch when you are 12. I reconciled that years ago with the poorly done prequels. They aren't meant for adult reasoning skills.

I've no intention of watching the new ones. I imagine them to be just as bad.

There needs to be more fantasy in the vein of George Martin's work. Something for us adults to chew on. That I would say is the single biggest piece of entertainment missing in our culture. It's just assumed that if it carries any fiction then it must be a Disney creation. =/

And don't say horror covers this because it rarely ever does. Most is intentionally stripped of an R rating to bring in a larger child audience.

 

[Nebulous]

I posted this on the Random Thoughts thread but thought it would fit in here too.
I dunno how to like link to that post? I've seen people do it before but /._./


A bit of introspective reasoning using the idea of fear being the path to the dark side.
I didn't explicitly lay out all the similarities between my path and what Kylo's going through... But this should offer some insight into why I like Kylo's character so much just the way he is.

'Evil' is so arbitrary...Well, killing people for no reason is evil. That isn't so arbitrary. But to call the Dark Side evil, or to view Light vs Dark as equivalent to Good vs Evil, seems wrong.
If "fear is the path to the Dark Side", or as the saying goes:

Fear --> Anger --> Hate --> Suffering --> Dark Side

This is usually interpreted as the pathway to being evil. But if we try viewing the Dark Side as being in a state of having power as opposed to being evil (although those can definitely overlap!)...

Fear --> Anger --> Hate --> Suffering --> Power

Maybe it's the illusion of power (such as in self harm or eating disorders), maybe you are in a situation where you can control other people... Whichever way, you find something to control and latch onto it; become dependent upon it. You need the highs of power. You have a lot of ambition, yeah, but that ambition is just the addiction to power.

('I can take over the world!' Even if you do, it's just you trying to satisfy your power cravings. This isn't necessarily "bad" but I'll get to that later...)

During my strongest 'power high' ...

Spoiler

(a mixture being half starved to death + being very suicidal + having nothing to lose)

... I genuinely felt like a god.

But are you really in control? Nope. You are being controlled by the desire of control itself.

I guess it's more
Fear --> Anger --> Hate --> Suffering --> Control addiction.


Some people are naturally ambitious. You hear stories of people who've had a dream from a young age and fought throughout their lives to achieve it.

Others don't really work like that. I know I don't. I'll get random, very occasional strikes of ambition, but they usually are completely gone within a few hours.
The only time I've really been able to cling to my ambition was when I had gone down the fear path.
The only time I've made a long term goal and actually stuck to it was when I said "starve yourself."

The Dark Side isn't really that beautiful when you're seeing it in hindsight. But if you're already somewhere on the fear path, it seems so alluring. Their cookies hold promises of power, strength, control, wicked joy.
If you've gotten to the dangerous control addiction stage, you'll see start to see that. It's scary to realize how sick you are. But once you've seen that, and you realize why you're where you are, then you can start to "recover." (That phrase always bothers me... 'I'm recovering from' what ever... Idk. It seems insulting. I don't know why but it just really really irks me. I'm not 'recovering' or 'getting better'. I'd rather say 'I'm less depressed than I once was' than 'I have recovered from depression'.)

I no longer have an eating disorder, I don't want to die, I wouldn't consider myself depressed. (Although I've been a bit gloomy and introspective recently. Writing this out is helping.)

Right now, I'm at a place where I want to get to the "Power" step without having to go through Fear, Anger, and Hate again.

I went to therapy for anxiety because it was causing problems- but now I can't really get to the fear path anymore because now I know how to deal with fear!
This is what is frustrating me. I want power again but I can't get there the same way I did before.
I've been dwelling on the past a lot...
Thoughts like 'I wish I had stayed in my control addiction stage. I wish I could have clung to it. I wish I still had something I could hate strongly enough to keep me there.' have been going through my head ever since I started to become less depressed.
But I know that I don't actually want to be depressed again; depression really sucks. I don't want the depression. But I know that in the past, depression has lead to feeling ambitious and power hungry. I want those feelings again but don't know any ways to get them without depression or 'the fear path.'

So far, my path has been:

Fear --> Anger --> Hate --> Suffering --> Control addiction / 'illusion of power’ cycle --> becoming aware of my flawed coping mechanisms --> recovery process --> stability--> wanting control again

Is this a path to the Light Side? If so, is it also a pathway to feeling ambitious and power hungry?

I'm not sure. But I do know that you can get a healthy sense of control without having to venture down the Dark Side.
Staying on top of your school work. Actively pursuing things you love, such as art, music, a branch of science that fascinates you. Learning a language, traveling the world, starting a business, whatever it is that makes your heart sing. Do it.

Spoiler

Note to self- If you can starve yourself for months, you have a crazy strong willpower. Doing your homework takes less willpower than that! You can do it. Use that crazy strong willpower to achieve healthy goals.

You are capable of so much.

So "power" does not necessarily equal "Dark Side."

This is so cool, I've been down the fear path. I've seen the power of the Dark Side, but it's extremely difficult to get healthy power there.
I'm on my way to the Light, I guess. I've yet to see the true power that it has to offer. So maybe I'll try it out.. Just to see for myself what it's like..
Maybe Kylo will end up on this journey as well
His redemption arc is gonna be amazing and so relatable.
... I could go off on a tangent about how fictional characters can have huge importance in the lives of individuals and how it's important to have complex characters so everyone has someone they can see themselves in but I'm not going to do that because you guys probably get the idea.

 

[onesteptwostep]

I think there were some problems with the new film, but since it's a trilogy and not a standalone I think waiting until all three are out before making any judgement would be wiser.

Personally I felt like there was a bit of lacking in the epic department because the film focused on Rey and Finn's narrative a bit too much. It didn't have the sense of a grand 'everyone is in this together' overture the previous films had, with all of the players in the galaxy rooting for the rebels and whatnot. Not a lot of the new galaxy was unexplored, and lot of the film focused on trying to develop and kettle new relationships (or delving and reliving old ones). The destruction of the senate without much lore going into it I think was a waste too. The writing on Finn as someone who suddenly has a change of heart was a new direction I didn't expect either. The ending of it was terrible as well, I felt like it was hastily put together, with Rey going to meet Luke to hand over the lightsaber, with the aerial 360 shot. I felt like they could have just skipped that all together and showed Luke waking up from meditation and feeling a disturbance in the force or whatever. They have two much chances though, so here's hoping to a better film.

 

[Nebulous]

Today is Star Wars day!

May 4

May the fourth be with you

But it's a legit thing. Like today is Star Wars Day.


I'll honor it by drawing later. And having a lightsaber battle with my sister. Probably other stuff too, idk yet.

 

[EditorOne]

It was not the worst movie I've ever seen but, like Redfire said up in the very first responding post, it was Episode IV all over again. That is excellent for anyone who never saw Episode IV, and a great many folks who did are all gaga over the thing. Those of us cursed with an analytic mind quickly realized "I've already seen this" and that sucks all the fun out of the enterprise.

 

[grayskies]

The movie was entertaining if you're really not into Star Wars. I enjoyed watching the movie, but I'm no fan; it's really not my genre.
After having said that, I would agree with redfire. Even though it's a movie...a lot of things were not explained, i.e. Rey's ability to overpower people with her gift...able to resist Kylo all of a sudden...
And definitely terrible acting; especially for the actors who played Finn & Rey.

 

[TheManBeyond]

ZEN ZEN KYLO REN!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Mk4T2B9gkE

HAAARD COOOORE

 

[Black Rose]

It was a good movie but it was not an epic movie. Transformers 2007 was also supposed to be epic but it was not. I got spine chills on both trailers. I wish I could find the original trailer for Transformers 2007.