Somewhere We Should Not Be

[The Introvert]

Spoiler

Sounds to me like you're interpreting two realities simultaneously, and are trying to figure out reality number 2 (the elves reality) from within the paradigm of reality number 1 (the human reality).

If you go to a psychiatrist, they'll promptly decide that reality number 2 isn't real, label you with a mental disorder, pump you up with drugs that make you numb to both realities, and consider their job well done.

If you accept that life isn't what we think it is, accept that both realities are real, and stop being scared because of what people from reality number 1 (human) are telling you, you'll freak out less.

If I were you my primary focus is to not be scared. I am of the firm belief that people who "hallucinate" (ie see things not based in this reality) are not mentally ill, but rather, have more human potential than the rest. This kind of thing is only a problem because we live in a very close minded society based in science (things we can put in a test tube and throw into a machine that spits out a graph) that doesn't give a toss about spirituality.

So in closing, consider the words of a couple of wannabe hack scientists you probably never heard of:

"reality is an illusion, albiet a persistent one" - albert einstein

“The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence.” - nikola tesla

I like you. I like your answer the best, therefore it is the one I will choose to listen to.

:smiley_emoticons_mr
​

 

[Double_V]

No.

I'm assuming this is related to the aforementioned brain seizures several others (possibly you) mentioned. As I've said before though, my headaches were re-classified as cluster headaches, which are different (seasonal, come in clusters).

Yes. Headaches, migrains, visual hallucinations, sleep disorders, are all known symptoms of seizures. Just google "Visual Hallucinations" and "seizure" or "headache". I think it would be helpful to you to see what you identify with.

There are some 40 different causes, some of them are very simple to fix.

Anyway, best of luck to you.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

If I were you my primary focus is to not be scared. I am of the firm belief that people who "hallucinate" (ie see things not based in this reality) are not mentally ill, but rather, have more human potential than the rest. This kind of thing is only a problem because we live in a very close minded society based in science (things we can put in a test tube and throw into a machine that spits out a graph) that doesn't give a toss about spirituality.

@just george

This I agree with, especially the orange, but now I'm curious. Have you ever hallucinated or had delusions? If so, how did you tell them apart from "reality"?

I think it would be helpful to you to see what you identify with.

@ T.I. ^This, and I admit my motives are selfish. You've no idea how hard it is to identify and befriend philosopher-scientists with systems thinking capacity who actually seek to understand the world and push boundaries.

 

[Matt3737]

Have you ever hallucinated or had delusions? If so, how did you tell them apart from "reality"?

After the fact depending on how 'potent' and how long it lasts.

If you had a delusional episode something akin to Neo exiting the matrix and vomiting from profound shock, you'd realize it as soon as it ended given the circumstances, i.e. that red pill must've been a powerful hallucinogen.

If it were continuous or the circumstances could not distinguish one from the other then they'd be unable to until other sources of information demonstrated it as such.

Have you seen A Beautiful Mind? Great movie, check it out if you haven't.

 

[just george]

@just george

This I agree with, especially the orange, but now I'm curious. Have you ever hallucinated or had delusions? If so, how did you tell them apart from "reality"?

I've been experimenting with lucid dreaming lately (meditating before I go to sleep and then doing some other stuff so that I can be awake in my dreams, or ask questions of the universe that manifest in those little sparkles that you see when you close your eyes in a pitch black silent room)

Anyway I woke up after a nap when I was doing this and having some awesome vivid dreams where I could do whatever I liked, and when I opened my eyes to begin the rest of my day, I had all of these symbols written in gold over layed on my vision - a bit like a pilots heads up display in a fighter jet.

I blinked, rubbed my eyes, looked around etc but nope, gold writing/symbols just stayed there for a few minutes while I got out of bed to make a coffee. Eventually they faded, but it was very strange (and certainly not a false awakening, because I went on with the rest of my day).

And then there was that time some guy at a party passed me a rolled up cigarette that I thought was one thing, but ended up being DMT. That one is still tormenting me, years later.

 

[just george]

I like you. I like your answer the best, therefore it is the one I will choose to listen to.

:smiley_emoticons_mr
​

You're one of those people that only believe in horoscopes when they say nice things about you, aren't you? Don't worry, you're in good company

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

After the fact depending on how 'potent' and how long it lasts.

This has been my experience. Everything makes perfect sense, then all of a sudden reality hits and you're like "WTF was I thinking!?!?", which, in my case at least, lasts for weeks.

If you had a delusional episode something akin to Neo exiting the matrix and vomiting from profound shock, you'd realize it as soon as it ended given the circumstances, i.e. that red pill must've been a powerful hallucinogen.

If it were continuous or the circumstances could not distinguish one from the other then they'd be unable to until other sources of information demonstrated it as such.

This has also been my experience. Living a delusion for ~3 months until getting bitchslapped by some externality (or bureaucracy). But is the delusion real, if in fact the perceived possibilities while delusional are attainable?

Have you seen A Beautiful Mind? Great movie, check it out if you haven't.

It's on the list

 

[The Introvert]

Just an update here (I've read your replies, but unfortunately do not have time to respond to them due to class soon); I remembered a dream again last night. The last time before this experience was (probably) about a month ago (in which all I remember is staring into the soul of a barn owl ... freaky yet mystifying).

I remember two parts of my most recent dream vividly. First, I was crawling through a sewer (similar to the new Les Miserables movie [which is awesome, btw]), when I suddenly became paralyzed from the neck down. I remember there was some comparison to my friend in the dream (who is not paralyzed). After a few moments, I exerted all my energy and was able to move my body and sit straight up. I vividly remember the feeling of shit water covering my ears (I was laying face-up) and contemplating just giving up and staying there to die.

After this part, I may or may not have woken up. You know how it goes, where you're not really sure if you're awake or not.

Spoiler

or maybe it's just me

But anyway, I remember I was in some sort of prison like complex that was actually a city. There were roads and people and cars but there were certain boundaries that were closed off either by giant walls or bars (like in a prison). Retrospectively, it was similar to what my idea of Berlin Wall era Berlin would be like. I remember feeling bad because I blew off my religious friend to go rob houses (or maybe I wasn't robbing them, I just remember I had a key to a place that wasn't mine) and when I walked in the front door, there was a pile of shoes.

Like some sort of convoluted dreamland feng-shui shit.

Anyway, the point of this text wall is to suggest the possibility of oncoming change in mental abilities. By this, I am referring to my previous suggestion that dreams may be linked to my headache troubles in some way. Additionally, perhaps the dreams could be a sign of eminent change in perspective. Finally, the null hypothesis would be that no change will occur. I guess only time will tell

Note: please excuse my (probably) poor grammar. I was in a rush to write this

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I've been experimenting with lucid dreaming lately

Man, I love those.

I've never had any hallucinations continue after waking up, or experimented with psychedelics (though it's coming soon).

Ever have hypnagogic hallucinations? I've had them twice since August. When they happen, just before I fall asleep I experience a brief sleep paralysis that has always, ALWAYS accompanied by extreme (> > > orgasmic) pleasure and auditory hallucinations of music I've never heard before that is completely unique. A minute later it's gone. If I could remain stuck in that state I'd happily become a vegetable. Most pleasure I've ever felt in my life.

 

[The Introvert]

@ T.I. ^This, and I admit my motives are selfish. You've no idea how hard it is to identify and befriend philosopher-scientists with systems thinking capacity who actually seek to understand the world and push boundaries.

So... so I'm special?

Should my long-term goals be world domination?

 

[The Introvert]

You're one of those people that only believe in horoscopes when they say nice things about you, aren't you? Don't worry, you're in good company

Eh, you could say that.

I guess the way I look at it is: if you can either have a positive or negative outlook on something, why would you choose the negative one intentionally? Life is more fulfilling if you're happy; if I can choose to be so, then it only makes life that much better.

 

[just george]

I've never had any hallucinations continue after waking up, or experimented with psychedelics (though it's coming soon).

Ever have hypnagogic hallucinations? I've had them twice since August. When they happen, just before I fall asleep I experience a brief sleep paralysis that has always, ALWAYS accompanied by extreme (> > > orgasmic) pleasure and auditory hallucinations of music I've never heard before that is completely unique. A minute later it's gone. If I could remain stuck in that state I'd happily become a vegetable. Most pleasure I've ever felt in my life.

Yes I have. I was trying to get to sleep (this happened on a few occasions - not the trying to get to sleep thing, the hallucination thing ) and there was a noise that was a combination between that horrible sound you get when you leave the rear passenger window open and drive fast (that pressure change wawawa sound) and a train.

I was scared as hell but felt some sort of barrier next to me, so I pushed through the barrier and entered a honey colored place that was quiet, gorgeous, and I could fly.

In places like that ie often heard gorgeous music that i couldnt write down fast enough when I woke up.

An interesting fact is that people in comas have teh same brain activity as people on LSD (look it up) so I have often thought that people in comas are in that place.

I think everyone in this thread should watch Cloud Atlas btw

I like these INTPs. Hardly anyone else chats about this stuff

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

So... so I'm special?

Should my long-term goals be world domination?

Alright, let's start negotiations. I'll give you a lifetime supply of bacon, cocaine, and hookers, plus 47 acres of prime beachfront real estate along a coast of your choice.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Yes I have. I was trying to get to sleep (this happened on a few occasions - not the trying to get to sleep thing, the hallucination thing ) and there was a noise that was a combination between that horrible sound you get when you leave the rear passenger window open and drive fast (that pressure change wawawa sound) and a train.

Huh. Never experienced a "generic" sound like that. Both were complex throughout.

I was scared as hell but felt some sort of barrier next to me, so I pushed through the barrier and entered a honey colored place that was quiet, gorgeous, and I could fly.

I couldn't fly, but I was screaming (and not from pain or fear ). There's got to be a way to market this stuff... Labor-->service-->experiential economy?

In places like that ie often heard gorgeous music that i couldnt write down fast enough when I woke up.

An interesting fact is that people in comas have teh same brain activity as people on LSD (look it up) so I have often thought that people in comas are in that place. Interesting. Partaken in anything that would allow for triangulation?

I think everyone in this thread should watch Cloud Atlas btw

*Adds to the list.*

I like these INTPs. But.. but I'm one of YOU!!!

.

 

[The Introvert]

Alright, let's start negotiations. I'll give you a lifetime supply of bacon, cocaine, and hookers, plus 47 acres of prime beachfront real estate along a coast of your choice.

Replace the hookers with a greenhouse with terrarium/ plant cultivating capabilities, and you've got yourself a deal. You can build it on the beachfront real estate, if you wish.

I'll start planning my ecosystem now!

Spoiler

As if I haven't already

 

[The Introvert]

Spoiler

In places like that ie often heard gorgeous music that i couldnt write down fast enough when I woke up.

This is about the only thing I can relate to (on occasion I experience changes in pressure coupled with auditory overload, but this is rare, and I attribute it to actual changes in pressure on the inner ear).

I can't tell you how many times I've heard something so touching; yet so fleeting, and unmemorable. It makes me sad because no matter how hard I try to remember what it sounded like, I can never hear it again

 

[The Introvert]

Update:

Last night I experienced the strangest thing!

As I was laying in my bed, I started thinking about God, and contemplating our existence, God's existence, and systems. After a while, there was a slight 'something' that was bothering me - I felt like something was different either perceptually or physically. I started to lose control of my eyes, and although it was pitch dark in my room, I could tell that my eyes were wide open.

It was an exhilarating feeling, but I was scared; I had felt similarly before, and the outcome was a hyper-sensitive, scared, confused state, which lasted for about a week (during which I convinced myself that I had some sort of psychological disorder). However, after a little while, I convinced myself that everything would be alright, and that I wanted to explore. I tilted my head back slightly and began to experience the most incredible - and difficult to explain - things!

I started to see faint white 'smudges' moving around fairly quickly (about the speed of a leaf blowing in a faint breeze) all around my room. There was a certain gelatinous quality to the smudges/ribbons. I could not feel my body, but I knew that it was there. It felt like my soul was flipped backwards, coming out of the top of my head, and that I was in the presence of something scary, but comforting. I wanted to adventure further, but began to get slightly scared again. Almost on command, I began to gently float back to my body.

It was a moment of full realization - my existence as one of many, and many of one. I could hear nothing but my heavy breathing and my heart pounding (and I mean pounding in my chest). I had goosebumps over my entire body, but I was incredibly warm.

This has happened to me before, but never in such extraordinary depth - I felt like I was literally flying above my head. The exhilaration and the experience is something that I will never forget.

What happened to me?

 

[Duxwing]

Update:

Last night I experienced the strangest thing!

As I was laying in my bed, I started thinking about God, and contemplating our existence, God's existence, and systems. After a while, there was a slight 'something' that was bothering me - I felt like something was different either perceptually or physically. I started to lose control of my eyes, and although it was pitch dark in my room, I could tell that my eyes were wide open.

It was an exhilarating feeling, but I was scared; I had felt similarly before, and the outcome was a hyper-sensitive, scared, confused state, which lasted for about a week (during which I convinced myself that I had some sort of psychological disorder). However, after a little while, I convinced myself that everything would be alright, and that I wanted to explore. I tilted my head back slightly and began to experience the most incredible - and difficult to explain - things!

I started to see faint white 'smudges' moving around fairly quickly (about the speed of a leaf blowing in a faint breeze) all around my room. There was a certain gelatinous quality to the smudges/ribbons. I could not feel my body, but I knew that it was there. It felt like my soul was flipped backwards, coming out of the top of my head, and that I was in the presence of something scary, but comforting. I wanted to adventure further, but began to get slightly scared again. Almost on command, I began to gently float back to my body.

It was a moment of full realization - my existence as one of many, and many of one. I could hear nothing but my heavy breathing and my heart pounding (and I mean pounding in my chest). I had goosebumps over my entire body, but I was incredibly warm.

This has happened to me before, but never in such extraordinary depth - I felt like I was literally flying above my head. The exhilaration and the experience is something that I will never forget.

What happened to me?

Humans have religious experiences from time to time, so I hazard that you had one. Just make sure to keep a good handle on your logic (that is, don't let your experience start messing with your perception of reality) and you'll be fine. Also, realize that God is a rather specific entity: sentient, anthropomorphic, benevolent. There could be all sorts of amazing and fantastic things out there, and they needn't be God.

-Duxwing

 

[The Introvert]

Humans have religious experiences from time to time, so I hazard that you had one. Just make sure to keep a good handle on your logic (that is, don't let your experience start messing with your perception of reality) and you'll be fine. Also, realize that God is a rather specific entity: sentient, anthropomorphic, benevolent. There could be all sorts of amazing and fantastic things out there, and they needn't be God.

-Duxwing

It was just odd because I have been dealing with this subject quite intensely for a while now. I'm being personally pulled this way and that by people's religious views (be it Muslims, Christians, Atheists) recently and then this happened at such an odd time.

But, I still wasn't likening the experience to a religious one, per se; it was less religious and more spiritual. Actually, it was all spiritual.

My perception of reality is fine - like I said, it only took a few moments for me to be completely 'down'.

To be honest, I just want to figure out what the hell happened, and try to make it happen again... the rush was euphoric

 

[Duxwing]

It was just odd because I have been dealing with this subject quite intensely for a while now. I'm being personally pulled this way and that by people's religious views (be it Muslims, Christians, Atheists) recently and then this happened at such an odd time.

But, I still wasn't likening the experience to a religious one, per se; it was less religious and more spiritual. Actually, it was all spiritual.

My perception of reality is fine - like I said, it only took a few moments for me to be completely 'down'.

To be honest, I just want to figure out what the hell happened, and try to make it happen again... the rush was euphoric

Well, if you think about something long enough, as Einstein did, you'll eventually start having some weird, often spritual experiences-- especially with ontology, metaphysics, and the sciences. I'd just keep on thinking about religion and see if the rush will happen again. Perhaps you've got something brewing in the back of your head and your unconcious mind is looking for a way to release it.

-Duxwing

 

[The Introvert]

Well, if you think about something long enough, as Einstein did, you'll eventually start having some weird, often spiritual experiences-- especially with ontology, metaphysics, and the sciences. I'd just keep on thinking about religion and see if the rush will happen again. Perhaps you've got something brewing in the back of your head and your unconscious mind is looking for a way to release it.

-Duxwing

Maybe I can spur a scientific hypothesis, like Einstein, or Watson and the double helix

But really, I didn't know that's how Einstein worked. I guess I just kind of assumed he was really intelligent and worked through all of his ideas with mathematics and logic.

You give me hope for my petty, meaningless life