Somewhere We Should Not Be

[The Introvert]

Hello, all my fellow e-companions. I feel now is as good a time as any to create this thread. Please be patient with me; my thoughts are more diversive than usual.

Through this thread, I will attempt to allow my brain to be dissected (lucky you). I feel now is as good a time as any to submit myself to judgement.

Spoiler

Here goes. Don't be afraid of my head.

I experience Deja vu daily. Not your typical: "I've been here before". I have 20-second clips of time in my head. I've gotten pretty good at catching myself. Sometimes I fear I'm trapped in an expanse of time uninhabited by others. Sometimes I fear I am the only one here. Sometimes I fear it is somewhere I, we, should not be. I feel now is as good a time as any to admit these fears.

When I was little, I had chronic nocturnal enuresis. Every night. Many times, accompanied with sleepwalking, and extremely 'heavy' sleep. This is actually the reason given to my parents of my condition: I passed (and still do pass) through REM sleep and slip right into deep sleep. I'm next to impossible to wake up, and hardly comes a day where I feel rested from a good night's sleep; regardless of time slept.

Dreams, though. I had dreams. Not many dreams, but very vivid dreams. I had dreams that I see now; thoughts that I had when I was little, that I think again now. And they make sense now, the thoughts, the dreams. They're in context now. And I know that the dreams, the thoughts I had then, are now reality for me.

And I'm scared of what the thoughts I'm having now may mean in the future.

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZSobH1wiiM

My sleep disorder sometimes causes me to be trapped in a mental state where I am conscious in my thoughts, and conscious of my body, but the two don't sync up.
@thehabitatdoctor

Spoiler

I believe you've attributed this to my 'introversion', so to speak? I recall you've noted my complete disconnection with the outside world (opposite to you).

For instance, last year, I freaked all of my college roomates out because I had an episode, and thought I was being abducted by aliens. Screaming, fighting, the whole nine yards. I have a ton of sleepwalking stories/ half conscious stories that I could tell, but that's for another time, I suppose. Not the most convenient timing for some, i.e. my mom thought I was on drugs, and I was simply trying to explain that Orgrimmar was under seige.

It's funny, I was just watching a clip of Alex Jones ranting about Terrence McKenna's elves. I'm familiar with McKenna, and I've listened to a handful of his lectures.

It never struck me until now that I had similar encounters with 'elves'.

When I was younger, on more than one occasion, I experienced the elves. I actually called them gnomes when I was little (my brother can attest). Several times, I awoke out of a state of this sleep-consciousness with hundreds of gnomes attacking me in my bed. I never had conversations with them, but I've talked to other figments of my imagination before.

Sometimes I feel small. Sometimes I can look down at my chest, and feel the eyes from the back of my head peering into my brain and controlling me. This is rare. Mostly I can control my thoughts to go into a less convoluted mess; many times which includes eyes, and faces watching me at all times.

Most of the time, I get the impression that the faces are good to me. They look out for me. Sometimes, however, the faces are not so nice to me. I feel now is as good a time as any to confront these faces.

I want them out for good. But I need help.

Sometimes the eyes in the back of my head tell me turn around. I know there isn't anyone there. But I look anyway, just to make sure. Sometimes, the machines in my head tell me that I'm just like them. That we're all just like them; we're all the same. I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together. We think, therefore we are.

And, sometimes, I don't think I'm somewhere we should be. Sometimes I'm at the top of the world; sometimes I'm in the pits of Hell. Because I can see God, I can also see Satan. Because I can live, I can also die. I can exist, or not exist.

Why is it that I know the inevitable, yet I refuse to let it happen? Why is it that I know the problem, but I am too cowardly to face it?
Alternatively;
Why do I think I know the inevitable, when I might not? Why do I think I know the problem, or that I know anything?

Are my ideas based on fact?
Is life purely my perception?
Are my thoughts everyone else's reality?
Do I even exist?

I feel I am fighting a losing battle to control my head.

I feel now is as good a time as any to admit it.

 

[joal0503]

I really dont know how to respond to this...

“A person with a strong complex thinks in terms of the complex, he dreams with open eyes and no longer adapts psychologically to the environment” - Jung 1907

i really have no idea if this is a correct connection...but maybe somebody could lead you to some Jungian material from his studies with schizophrenia ? No clue ...

 

[Minuend]

I suggest you talk to a professional. For your own peace of mind, it's better to get checked out thoroughly. It's also not possible for any forum members to know the cause of your symptoms through ze internet.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I've cut up the OP and rearranged for clarity. Keep in mind that I am a doctor of both habitats, and Discord .

Dreams, though. I had dreams. Not many dreams, but very vivid dreams.

I actually just woke up from a dream where I was pulling yellow salamanders with black spots out of tiny crevices in my carpet.

I had dreams that I see now; thoughts that I had when I was little, that I think again now.

Ditto.

@thehabitatdoctor

I believe you've attributed this to my 'introversion', so to speak? I recall you've noted my complete disconnection with the outside world (opposite to you).


That was a reference to the fact that I'm Ne-dom and my thoughts are moving everywhere at once. This is why I notice every little movement and sound. This is also partly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervigilance associated with PTSD.

And they make sense now, the thoughts, the dreams. They're in context now.

How? Explain... Via pm if necessary.

And I know that the dreams, the thoughts I had then, are now reality for me.

How? Explain... Via pm if necessary.

And I'm scared of what the thoughts I'm having now may mean in the future.

*How? Explain... Via pm if necessary.

*

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8zCANDDO70

Here goes. Don't be afraid of my head.

You shouldn't be either. Regardless of your experiences or other's perceptions of them, you're better served viewing it as the rare ability that it is instead of a disability or hinderance. Be authentic.

I want them out for good. But I need help.

And, sometimes, I don't think I'm somewhere we should be. Sometimes I'm at the top of the world; sometimes I'm in the pits of Hell. Because I can see God, I can also see Satan. Because I can live, I can also die. I can exist, or not exist.

Higher highs, lower lows, and unpredictable volatility. Consider yourself lucky to be able to experience them.

Why is it that I know the inevitable, yet I refuse to let it happen? Why is it that I know the problem, but I am too cowardly to face it?
Alternatively;
Why do I think I know the inevitable, when I might not? Why do I think I know the problem, or that I know anything?

If you're going to ask whys, why is it that you're in your current state of existence? Why you are? After exhausting yourself and concluding that you don't know because you can't know, you become an agent of yourself, as the unknown is what allows Free Will to exist.

My realization of the unknown was facilitated by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdism#Relationship_with_existentialism_and_nihilism

which shifted my fear of the unknown to... an odd and difficult to explain comfort, allowing me to "graduate", per se, to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism

I feel I am fighting a losing battle to control my head.

I feel now is as good a time as any to admit it.

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtK6MDWoT18

Let's put out a symptom list:
-apparent dissociation
-apparent derealization
-apparent depersonalization
-nocturnal enuresis
-panic, possibly to the point of panic attacks

But there are additional things I assume were unintentionally left out:
-*migraines
-"vitamin D deficiency" with previously discussed caveats impacting melatonin, serotonin et al.

I suggest you talk to a professional. For your own peace of mind, it's better to get checked out thoroughly. It's also not possible for any forum members to know the cause of your symptoms through ze internet.

@The Introvert ^This

But for your own peace of mind (I know you're thinking of less comfortable possibilities), consider:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_lobe_epilepsy
specifically http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_partial_seizure

 

[BigApplePi]

We all dream if we take care to notice. But there is a special condition ... I saw the one hour program on Nova, but forget what the condition is called. It is possible to be conscious while dreaming and then one sees the dream as if it were real.

 

[The Introvert]

I will admit I'm currently being pulled just about every direction in terms of questioning reality, meaning, etc. I guess my easygoing nature has convinced enough people that they can attempt to assimilate me into some sort of religious group (whether it be Islam, Christian, etc.) <-- serious.

And it's funny, but I came to the realization last night that I don't really agree or disagree with any of them fully. I've linked this before in other threads, but:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspectivism
As a moral compass of sorts. I love Nietzsche.

Let's put out a symptom list:
-apparent dissociation
-apparent derealization
-apparent depersonalization
-nocturnal enuresis
-panic, possibly to the point of panic attacks
Let it be known that these are not necessarily happening at the same time. As for the derealization, I was more or less tyring to get to the root of the problem (or at least what I think it may be). I've never had a moment of derealization that I have not intentionally induced (at least while conscious).

But there are additional things I assume were unintentionally left out:
-*migraines
Officially been changed to cluster headaches
It is worth noting that the pain I experience here does not seem to be as intense as the article might suggest.

Through analysis of this, I think there are more encompassing and similar problems in accordance to my other symptoms here than one might initially think.
-"vitamin D deficiency" with previously discussed caveats impacting melatonin, serotonin et al.

As for my peace of mind, I'm confident in my ability to keep my head above water. I've only ever truly slipped into a dark place once (when I first realized there was a problem) and even then I crawled out about a week later.

While we're on the topic of fundamentals, I might as well add this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yin_and_yang
Way back when, (when I first dove into systems) I literally had an "oh shit" moment when I came to. In pertinence to the above, my difficulty seems to be getting "stuck" in either ying or yang too long. When I eventually realize I need to shift my perception, I can physically feel a phase-shift; the transition between complimentary forces in the mind and body.

I actually have another thread in which I questioned the physical and mental stimulation of such an event:
http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=14849

As for:

But for your own peace of mind (I know you're thinking of less comfortable possibilities), consider:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_lobe_epilepsy
specifically http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_partial_seizure

It is a distinct possibility. Before my headaches, I actually do experience an aura (although I've never talked to someone who gets chronic headaches that doesn't). I just assumed that the vision loss was due to constriction of blood vessels behind the eye (which is technically the diagnosis of migraine headaches, if I'm not mistaken).

I just want to assure you that my health will not be compromised as a result of the altering state of my psyche. Everything is a building process for me: I need to make sure I tear every last wall down before I start building a new one. At times, this may cause me to be vulnerable, but that's how growth ensues.

Only through decimation can a new city be born from the ashes.

 

[The Introvert]

I suggest you talk to a professional. For your own peace of mind, it's better to get checked out thoroughly. It's also not possible for any forum members to know the cause of your symptoms through ze internet.

My intention was not to ask for a diagnosis as much as it was to attempt to explain how a part of my brain seems to work.

I'm looking for psychological analysis of the masse simply because I'm interested in that kind of stuff.

I admit, the thread kind of took a darker turn at the end (somewhat unintentionally), partially due to what I believe the nature of my psyche is, but also because I was annoyed; I had typed most of the thread up, and then accidentally closed out of my browser. I'm a paranoid bastard, so I had my browser set to delete cookies, passwords, and history on each exit.

Writing the same thread twice in a row induced deeper thought on the subject, and apparently the over-arching context is one of malice and fear (and a whole bunch of other things).

 

[The Introvert]

We all dream if we take care to notice. But there is a special condition ... I saw the one hour program on Nova, but forget what the condition is called. It is possible to be conscious while dreaming and then one sees the dream as if it were real.

Interesting...

Was it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_Paralysis?

The latter seems to be similar, although I had body function during several of my experiences.

Interestingly enough, sleep paralysis also has been linked to migraines, which doc mentioned.

 

[Da Blob]

Ah! A type of fancy, perhaps a dream within a dream.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZyNKrYo9I4


I have been a lucid dreamer since i was toddler and i am familiar with some of the phenomena that is described.

The deja vu thing is simple. There is no perception of Time in a dream state, only a rough concept of sequence, so it really is impossible to encounter anything for the 'first' time for there is no time. Even the most bizarre things have an aura of familiarity about them. even the salamanders hiding in the carpet are the same type as 'last' time, except there is no 'last' time. Everything in a dream pretends to be remembered and within the context of memory.

It does seem as though one could have an organic disruption causing these mental perturbations. I would certainly investigate the possibility of having a sleep disorder. I had a friend who, after decades of problems, finally spent a night being monitored for a sleep disorder. It turns out that she was simply suffering from a low level of oxygen in her bloodstream while asleep, an easily correctable situation.

Despite the vividness of the dreams described, one could actually be suffering from a form of dream deprivation...

 

[The Introvert]

I have been a lucid dreamer since i was toddler and i am familiar with some of the phenomena that is described.

I doubt my experience can be classified as lucid dreams. From my understanding, if one is lucid dreamer, it means that one has control over the dreams, no? This is not the case for me.

Albeit, I don't think you were implying that I was a lucid dreamer, but I just want to clarify my experiences.

The deja vu thing is simple. There is no perception of Time in a dream state, only a rough concept of sequence, so it really is impossible to encounter anything for the 'first' time for there is no time. Even the most bizarre things have an aura of familiarity about them. even the salamanders hiding in the carpet are the same type as 'last' time, except there is no 'last' time. Everything in a dream pretends to be remembered and within the context of memory.

So you're saying that what I remember when I'm awake is a result of a familiar dream?

Wouldn't being awake classify as a dream, then, as your memories are used to create dreams? Seems much more complicated than you make it out to be

If the above is true, then wouldn't that imply that if I experience deja vu, that I actually have experienced it 'before' (if we're assuming time is not linear here) since my dreams are actually personalized reality and my reality is based off of my dreams?

It does seem as though one could have an organic disruption causing these mental perturbations. I would certainly investigate the possibility of having a sleep disorder. I had a friend who, after decades of problems, finally spent a night being monitored for a sleep disorder. It turns out that she was simply suffering from a low level of oxygen in her bloodstream while asleep, an easily correctable situation.

I actually was tested when I was younger. I don't recall the results, although I was given a special mat that I had to sleep on that beeped when I pissed the bed. After about a week, I was 'cured'.

Spoiler

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedwetting_alarm

Despite the vividness of the dreams described, one could actually be suffering from a form of dream deprivation...

Another similarity that I failed to mention in the OP here. Much like my cyclic headaches (see the above link to cluster headaches), my dreams seem to be cyclical as well. I'll have a week where I dream every night and then I won't dream for weeks at a time. This is very similar to my headaches (although to be honest, I don't know if they occur at the same time).

If it means anything, I haven't had a headache or remembered a dream for close to three (3) weeks now...

 

[Da Blob]

I doubt my experience can be classified as lucid dreams. From my understanding, if one is lucid dreamer, it means that one has control over the dreams, no? This is not the case for me.

There are levels of lucidity. Knowing that one is dreaming and being able to remember dreams are two of them.



So you're saying that what I remember when I'm awake is a result of a familiar dream?

Wouldn't being awake classify as a dream, then, as your memories are used to create dreams? Seems much more complicated than you make it out to be

No, I am suggesting that the deja vu experience is often just a feeling, with often no basis in fact, an illusion more than a delusion.

If the above is true, then wouldn't that imply that if I experience deja vu, that I actually have experienced it 'before' (if we're assuming time is not linear here) since my dreams are actually personalized reality and my reality is based off of my dreams?

There is no 'before' (or 'after',) therefore no memory. Dreams occur in a "Here and Now" environment. It is to be remembered that the concepts of the Past and Future are figments of human imagination and dreams themselves in the awakened Self.
It is rather difficult to explain
It is like we have two different methods of organizing Space/Time. One we utilize during sleeping dreams and the other during daydreams.

I actually was tested when I was younger. I don't recall the results, although I was given a special mat that I had to sleep on that beeped when I pissed the bed. After about a week, I was 'cured'.

Spoiler

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedwetting_alarm

There are a range of tests that can be conducted. some of which are quite sophisticated. I would still suggest investigating sleep disorders. However, I suggest such to about anyone. It is amazing how the quality of waking life can be perturbed by even the slightest inconvenience of sleep cycles.

Another similarity that I failed to mention in the OP here. Much like my cyclic headaches (see the above link to cluster headaches), my dreams seem to be cyclical as well. I'll have a week where I dream every night and then I won't dream for weeks at a time. This is very similar to my headaches (although to be honest, I don't know if they occur at the same time).

If it means anything, I haven't had a headache or remembered a dream for close to three (3) weeks now...

Sounds very similar to what my friend with the low oxygen level in her bloodstream was experiencing (?) If it is a periodic problem that starts a cycle, it could be difficult to detect. One would have to observe it just at the right time. I would check into the possibilities and then apply the process of elimination to those known causes/disorders.

 

[Double_V]

Introvert, quite a bit of what you are describing is consistant with having seizures. They can be physical, emotional, and sometimes people have both. But the moments in time gone, the de ja vous, headaches, aura, seeing/hearing/imagining what you know cannot be, and the In Rem and dream stuff, yeah, that all fits. Even the cycles.

There are 40 different causes... an EEG can confirm it.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

^*cough* @The Introvert

 

[Double_V]

^*cough* @The Introvert

Too soon in the relationship for nickname usage, eh?

*Hangs head in shame*

 

[Matt3737]

As a religious scholar, I'd like to point out that the core tenet of any religious system whether implicitly or explicitly stated revolves around the acknowledgement and confrontation of mortality.

Everyone responds to the idea of death and dying differently and manages these unconcious anxieties in different manners. Dreams, oftentimes, are symbolic manifestations of our unconcious desires and anxieties.

I, like many here have expressed, hope that you seek help if you feel you need help (if no other explanation is possible) and that it is not a sign of weakness to reach out for help. Those that do not reach out for help are not better off or more capable in rationalizing death than any other person. It affects everyone equally. We simply respond differently.

I wish you well in your endeavors.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Too soon in the relationship for nickname usage, eh?

*Hangs head in shame*

Nah, I just wanted to casually prod him and make him aware of triangulating opinion. Personally I call him T.I., though he's neither a calculator nor an arguably over-rated rapper .

 

[redbaron]

Don't worry, when you reach level 32 you'll evolve into Golduck.

Then you'll have much more control over your powers. Plus you'll turn blue and be an all-around badass.

 

[The Introvert]

As a religious scholar, I'd like to point out that the core tenet of any religious system whether implicitly or explicitly stated revolves around the acknowledgement and confrontation of mortality.

Everyone responds to the idea of death and dying differently and manages these unconcious anxieties in different manners. Dreams, oftentimes, are symbolic manifestations of our unconcious desires and anxieties.

I, like many here have expressed, hope that you seek help if you feel you need help (if no other explanation is possible) and that it is not a sign of weakness to reach out for help. Those that do not reach out for help are not better off or more capable in rationalizing death than any other person. It affects everyone equally. We simply respond differently.

I wish you well in your endeavors.

Thank you for your kind words, but I must point out that I do not fear death; to be honest, I don't really know what I'm afraid of, which is kind of the point. I think I would classify it more as a 'fear of the unknown' which in many cases I suppose would imply dying... but not in this one.

In my instance, the unknown would be more of a (how to explain something you do not understand) lack of total comprehension of my (and mandkinds) mental abilities. The fact that I do not know what most of my brain is used for (or if it is used at all) and the practically infinite possibilities this could insinuate scares me... in a sense, I am afraid of living, rather than dying

 

[The Introvert]

Nah, I just wanted to casually prod him and make him aware of triangulating opinion. Personally I call him T.I., though he's neither a calculator nor an arguably over-rated rapper .

@thehabitatdoctor
Can T.I. really be my new nickname?
I promise I'll live up to expectations.
No, scratch that...


I will exceed them

 

[The Introvert]

Don't worry, when you reach level 32 you'll evolve into Golduck.

Then you'll have much more control over your powers. Plus you'll turn blue and be an all-around badass.

But I like my lack of control...
It makes me unpredictable

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

@thehabitatdoctor
Can T.I. really be my new nickname?
I promise I'll live up to expectations.
No, scratch that...


I will exceed them

You mean Almarath the Ambidextrous wasn't good enough?

I expect your debut album to at least rival Run-D.M.C.'s Raising Hell.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Can T.I. really be my new nickname?
I promise I'll live up to expectations.
No, scratch that...


I will exceed them

I expect your debut album to at least rival Run-D.M.C.'s Raising Hell.

'What you know about that?'

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

'What you know about that?'

It's tricky.

 

[The Introvert]

You mean Almarath the Ambidextrous wasn't good enough?

I expect your debut album to at least rival Run-D.M.C.'s Raising Hell.

I'll assume that won't be too difficult to achieve.

 

[Minuend]

I suggest you talk to a professional. For your own peace of mind, it's better to get checked out thoroughly. It's also not possible for any forum members to know the cause of your symptoms through ze internet.

Sober minu is so diplomatic <3

What I meant to say is that you probably have some sort of disease and should have it checked out in case it could develop into something more serious.

I know it's controversial to say something like that when encountering unusual behaviour on this forum. If you like your mental condition, then stay with it. I'm just saying it could turn bad.

Well, mental or chemical. The difference is very subtle, since the mental is the chemistry of the brain etc etc etc etc.

~drunk~

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I know it's controversial to say something like that when encountering unusual behaviour on this forum. If you like your mental condition, then stay with it. I'm just saying it could turn bad.

Well, mental or chemical. The difference is very subtle, since the mental is the chemistry of the brain etc etc etc etc.

~drunk~

@The Introvert
See? Drunk Minu even agrees with me. To the EEG! Stat!

 

[Minuend]

Are you calling me drunk???


*Challenges you to a fist fight*

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Are you calling me drunk???


*Challenges you to a fist fight*

No, I'm calling you blissfully boozed.

*Artfully dodges*

Don't make me e-hug you...

 

[Double_V]

Thank you for your kind words, but I must point out that I do not fear death; to be honest, I don't really know what I'm afraid of, which is kind of the point. I think I would classify it more as a 'fear of the unknown' which in many cases I suppose would imply dying... but not in this one.

In my instance, the unknown would be more of a (how to explain something you do not understand) lack of total comprehension of my (and mandkinds) mental abilities. The fact that I do not know what most of my brain is used for (or if it is used at all) and the practically infinite possibilities this could insinuate scares me... in a sense, I am afraid of living, rather than dying

Ugh. I see I am going to have to go through this thread, then type out my 'credentials' for what I say about this topic; a task I am not up to right now.

The worst thing to fear would not be death, it would be living in a brain damaged state. Left unattended/ untreated that's a very real possibility given symptoms you've described!

And the way the brain works, the more Events you do have the more Events you will have.

 

[Double_V]

P.S. What's with the Op title? Why shouldn't we be there? I've long thought everyone should come with a pop top cranial lid so I could see what they were thinking.

 

[Matt3737]

There is an unusual distinction we make unconciously between death and dying while conciously we take it for granted and typically use them interchangeably.

Dying is extremely well known and well understood. Medical books can describe decomposition in great detail. We will all experience dying at some point in our lives. It shapes and governs our lives and gives meaning to the importance of what time we have available and how we choose to spend that time.

When it comes to death though, our ideas and conceptions are useless. Paradoxically, one cannot experience death, but nonetheless we will all be dead at some point. One can neither fear death or embrace death; dying yes, but not death. Death is beyond that which can rationally be spoken about.

The distinction between death and dying is an arbitrary line that one crosses that we have trouble even identifying (think Terry Schiavo).

 

[Double_V]

Ugh. I see I am going to have to go through this thread, then type out my 'credentials' for what I say about this topic; a task I am not up to right now.

The worst thing to fear would not be death, it would be living in a brain damaged state. Left unattended/ untreated that's a very real possibility given symptoms you've described!

And the way the brain works, the more Events you do have the more Events you will have.

I didn't write what I really meant. Left untreated a person may be alive but still have lost their life. Not able to count on their brain or body, no longer able to drive, work, go anywhere by themselves. Can't risk being by a stove, or take bath, even showers can become dangerous. Loss of social outlets, social situations, no money..... you can be alive but your life died.

Then if you're lucky you have people to care for and love you. If not it's the nursing home.

 

[The Introvert]

There is an unusual distinction we make unconciously between death and dying while conciously we take it for granted and typically use them interchangeably.

Dying is extremely well known and well understood. Medical books can describe decomposition in great detail. We will all experience dying at some point in our lives. It shapes and governs our lives and gives meaning to the importance of what time we have available and how we choose to spend that time.

When it comes to death though, our ideas and conceptions are useless. Paradoxically, one cannot experience death, but nonetheless we will all be dead at some point. One can neither fear death or embrace death; dying yes, but not death. Death is beyond that which can rationally be spoken about.

The distinction between death and dying is an arbitrary line that one crosses that we have trouble even identifying (think Terry Schiavo).

I am convinced that when faced with death, one experiences inner peace. This is exemplified by the fact that many people, in the face of inevitable death, simply give up and accept it. It would seem implausible to me that these people have not accepted the fact that they are going to die. I understand what you're saying about the differences between dying and death. I am just choosing to ignore them and rant, instead.

A friend once told me a story about being in combat during war, and the mentality one must have to get through it. If one is in a gunfight with the enemy, the only way to face the fear of dying is to accept that you are going to die. This is probably not news to many people, but I think it is important to note that one really can accept death.

On a side note, it would seem obvious that this is a potential factor in trauma-related disorders such as PTSD. Perhaps chemicals released by the brain during instances where one thinks they are going to die are not only a biological response mechanism to traumatic incidents, but can also cause problems if the person lives (I'm trying to get at the chemicals should only be there when one is dead). Really just talking shit here, though.

 

[joal0503]

I am convinced that when faced with death, one experiences inner peace. This is exemplified by the fact that many people, in the face of inevitable death, simply give up and accept it. It would seem implausible to me that these people have not accepted the fact that they are going to die. I understand what you're saying about the differences between dying and death. I am just choosing to ignore them and rant, instead.

:

to sort of briefly touch on this inner peace comment...near death experiences? I havent done a lot of digging...but theres definitely been research into this stuff...what i find interesting to corroborate this sort of 'inner peace' that users generally report...its indicative of some sort of psychedelic, dmt mimicry; hallucinations, out of body, levitation, oneness...so it might not be a conscious reaction of acceptance to death, as much as it is some mystical neurochemical response evoking some pretty powerful experiences at the limit of human consciousness...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-death_experience

 

[Matt3737]

A friend once told me a story about being in combat during war, and the mentality one must have to get through it. If one is in a gunfight with the enemy, the only way to face the fear of dying is to accept that you are going to die. This is probably not news to many people, but I think it is important to note that one really can accept death.

Well, I'd say that's sort of a paradox in that one might say the acceptance of death would entail actually dying, i.e. one might say they accept being charitable but then not give to charity. If one accepts dying to escape the fear of death, then they are fearing fear itself as Roosevelt once told us. They are afraid of dying, but to escape the fear itself, they confront it. I'd say confrontation is slightly different than acceptance though.

Fear is typically a negative emotion and one in which we tend to avoid. It can also vary from simple acknowledgment to outright terror, so when I say we're all afraid of death in some manner, some of us are just respectfully aware of its potential and some may be crippled emotionally/psychologically.

But everyone is fearful, otherwise the emotion itself might not exist and that presents a conundrum. I believe you when you say that's not your concern, but it does appear to be an interesting source for all the alternate problems we deal with in life that we attempt to manage and deal with.

Edit: Also, along the lines of 'inner peace' during near-death experiences or even those sentiments expressed from the dying, this is true. It is my opinion that the paradox or the emotional feedback cycle, i.e. being afraid of death or being afraid of being afraid, lessens in proportion to the fading of our self-aware conscious and unconscious ego. We become 'less aware' of our conscious/unconscious ideas/concepts of death and our fears thereof.

 

[The Introvert]

to sort of briefly touch on this inner peace comment...near death experiences? I havent done a lot of digging...but theres definitely been research into this stuff...what i find interesting to corroborate this sort of 'inner peace' that users generally report...its indicative of some sort of psychedelic, dmt mimicry; hallucinations, out of body, levitation, oneness...so it might not be a conscious reaction of acceptance to death, as much as it is some mystical neurochemical response evoking some pretty powerful experiences at the limit of human consciousness...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-death_experience

Yeah, I kinda hit on that at the end of my post with the "biological mechanism" shpiel.

My point, in reiteration, was that the mechanism, (psychedelic experience, oneness, etc.) could be induced through acceptance of death. Or vice versa; it always seems to be able to go either way for these things.

I liken it to the ever-present positive (or not-so-positive) feedback loop.

 

[The Introvert]

Well, I'd say that's sort of a paradox in that one might say the acceptance of death would entail actually dying, i.e. one might say they accept being charitable but then not give to charity. If one accepts dying to escape the fear of death, then they are fearing fear itself as Roosevelt once told us. They are afraid of dying, but to escape the fear itself, they confront it. I'd say confrontation is slightly different than acceptance though.

Agreed.

Fear is typically a negative emotion and one in which we tend to avoid. It can also vary from simple acknowledgment to outright terror, so when I say we're all afraid of death in some manner, some of us are just respectfully aware of its potential and some may be crippled emotionally/psychologically.

But everyone is fearful, otherwise the emotion itself might not exist and that presents a conundrum. I believe you when you say that's not your concern, but it does appear to be an interesting source for all the alternate problems we deal with in life that we attempt to manage and deal with.

My initial point was that I did not have a fear of dying. I had a fear of, well, I'm not quite sure (trying to figure that out now). It is my personal opinion that confrontation with oneself should be the primary step in elimination of unwanted and unhelpful/irrational fears.

I am happier and more productive when I focus on the positive aspects of life, instead of the negative. By confronting and dealing with the negative, I give myself more time to work with and enjoy the positive. Self-confrontation is arduous, but necessary, for mental and physical health (at least for me).

 

[Matt3737]

I couldn't agree more. I know some previous posters expressed some concern for your well-being and I wanted to also express a similar concern.

I do believe you when you say you're okay though. We all manage more or less; it's simply being somewhere along a subjective spectrum of better or worse that we all find ourselves.

 

[The Introvert]

It is sometimes difficult, however, for an individual to objectively view their mental health/ stability (if it is even possible at all).

It seems one never knows until they fall off the cliff... or are standing high on their own pedestal of happiness and stability.

 

[Double_V]

I was reading recently that INTJ's intellectualize the thought of sex to the point of not doing it (busy on the mental aspect of it and not the physical). This thread reminded of that for some reason.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

It seems one never knows until they fall off the cliff...

^

 

[The Introvert]

I was reading recently that INTJ's intellectualize the thought of sex to the point of not doing it (busy on the mental aspect of it and not the physical). This thread reminded of that for some reason.

Erm, wh-what?

This isn't an ideal place for me to be discussing that aspect of my life...

I'm not sure that if I had that problem, I would even seek help trying to fix it.

 

[Double_V]

Erm, wh-what?

This isn't an ideal place for me to be discussing that aspect of my life...

I'm not sure that if I had that problem, I would even seek help trying to fix it.

Let me try again. I was reading an article about MBTI types when they are under stress today and this line stood out "INTJs are used to living in their minds, mostly disregarding their physical and emotional needs". Read that one more time...

"INTJs are used to living in their minds, mostly disregarding their physical and emotional needs".

What I was trying to say to you earlier is that while it seems you recongnize the problem is either psychological or neurological (as you placed the thread in this section) you seem to be discussing your symptoms as tho they are philosophical, like academia. I'm urging to go to a neurologist, or specifically an Epileptologist. When you go, print off what you wrote here and give that to the doctor along with a log of any other occurances (they are called "events"), what you experienced mentally and physically a with dates & times. Be thorough. It will be beneficial to you.

Sleep deprivation (late nights or irregular sleep schedules) really brings these out, btw.

 

[The Introvert]

"INTJs are used to living in their minds, mostly disregarding their physical and emotional needs".

Is this INTJ-specific or is it true with all introverted types?

Despite my initially clustered and provocative post, I don't believe that there is anything (extensively) wrong with me. I had an MRI for my headaches and nothing was proclaimed to be out of the ordinary (thus the decision to supplement me with Vitamin D).

Sleep deprivation (late nights or irregular sleep schedules) really brings these out, btw.

This was more directed towards when I was younger. Now I have a fairly regular and adequate sleep schedule, especially considering my former troubles with such.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I had an MRI

How long ago?

 

[Double_V]

Is this INTJ-specific or is it true with all introverted types?

Let me see if I can find that article again. I think it was just targeting leading problems for each MBTI type and what I'd quoted was under INTJ's. I'm not even sure if I read all the other I's.

Despite my initially clustered and provocative post, I don't believe that there is anything (extensively) wrong with me. I had an MRI for my headaches and nothing was proclaimed to be out of the ordinary (thus the decision to supplement me with Vitamin D).

An MRI can be done for alot of reasons, dependant upon what is being looked for. Did you have and EEG? EEG's may not catch the activity either depending. My sons first one was only 45 minutes long, done after limiting sleep to only 2 hrs that night, and it was definitive (yes). There are longer tests (EEG and VEEG) for people who didn't have any activity captured on a short EEG. Some of them are as long as 6 weeks. Seriously 6 weeks. It's is more common to have to do repeated, or longer periods of testing, than not to capture/record an event. The EEG records the activity, but not the specific location it's coming from.

There is a test called an Ictal Spect that involves having an event, being shot immediately afterward with radioactive dye, and then into an MRI. That gets the location. And location is everything.

That being said I do recall a guy who'd been in the hopital doing a long term VEEG. He was sooo bored and then finally he had one. The VEEG is more informative than a regular one. More wires collecting data and videoed to observe a persons physical movements, which can tell what side of the brain and what lobe they are in. The guy was very relieved to be told his were psychologically based on the part of the brain they were coming from, probably brought on by stress, lack of sleep etc. He was placed on meds and told to see a psychologist to gain control of them.

Most people doen't know migrains have been recently reclassified as epilepsy. Reoccuring irregular neurological activity.

 

[Double_V]

Here's the article http://pstypes.blogspot.com/

 

[just george]

Sounds to me like you're interpreting two realities simultaneously, and are trying to figure out reality number 2 (the elves reality) from within the paradigm of reality number 1 (the human reality).

If you go to a psychiatrist, they'll promptly decide that reality number 2 isn't real, label you with a mental disorder, pump you up with drugs that make you numb to both realities, and consider their job well done.

If you accept that life isn't what we think it is, accept that both realities are real, and stop being scared because of what people from reality number 1 (human) are telling you, you'll freak out less.

If I were you my primary focus is to not be scared. I am of the firm belief that people who "hallucinate" (ie see things not based in this reality) are not mentally ill, but rather, have more human potential than the rest. This kind of thing is only a problem because we live in a very close minded society based in science (things we can put in a test tube and throw into a machine that spits out a graph) that doesn't give a toss about spirituality.

So in closing, consider the words of a couple of wannabe hack scientists you probably never heard of:

"reality is an illusion, albiet a persistent one" - albert einstein

“The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence.” - nikola tesla

 

[The Introvert]

How long ago?

Whenever I went to the doctor for my headaches... so around... October-ish?
Maybe later in the year than that.

 

[The Introvert]

Did you have and EEG?

No.

Most people doen't know migrains have been recently reclassified as epilepsy. Reoccuring irregular neurological activity.

I'm assuming this is related to the aforementioned brain seizures several others (possibly you) mentioned. As I've said before though, my headaches were re-classified as cluster headaches, which are different (seasonal, come in clusters).