Software Engineering vs. Careers with more humanism

[Inquisitor]

This is a topic that keeps cropping up on this forum. It's something I often think about b/c I'm currently studying computer science and the plan at the moment is to pursue a career in this field, most likely related to software engineering. Nevertheless, I often find myself toying with the idea of pursuing graduate study in a social science like economics or psychology. In the past, I have thought about going into medicine, law, studying Ayurveda in India, getting a master's in public health, and going into environmental science.

The problem is, I don't feel passionate about CS in the same way I do when contemplating possibility of working in those other fields. Having read about the functions as described by Jung, Von Franz, Van der Hoop, Myers, Keirsey, and Quenk, I have come to realize that according to type dynamics theory the inferior function for all types is largely undifferentiated and highly dependent on both nature and nurture. So what does this mean?

In a nutshell, Fe will motivate INTPs to pursue careers that are generally well-suited to ENFJs. At the same time, while some INTPs may be more drawn to artistic careers, others may feel drawn more towards humanitarian careers. In other words, the way Fe manifests may be very different from one INTP to the next.

With that preamble, I still believe that software engineering is likely to be a "best" fit for INTPs. The reason I say this is that the day-to-day requirements of working in those other fields I mentioned above are not as ideal as those found in software engineering.

Your thoughts?

 

[QuickTwist]

I can totally get on board with the nature/nurture influencing the 4th function. Its a really interesting theory. Can you talk more about that in how it manifests itself in all types? Being an ISFP I have Te as my fourth and what I would give to have it be more developed..

 

[Black Rose]

If it takes more energy to do Fe tasks than Ti tasks you will regret choosing a career in Fe tasks. Fe requires patience so if you have no energy you lose your cool with people which in a Fe career would be a no no. Strengths get stronger exponentially and weaknesses don't balance with strengths but only drain energy because improvement is linear. Functions are efficient at what they do.

 

[Haim]

Have you done any programming outside of pure CS?
Taken up a programming project is much more enjoyable to me than pure cs exercises(at the low,high school level)
The big fun for me,one to come up with the question/problem,the process thinking up a solution and the idea which involves simulating how people behave,in order to predict what problems people will have with the game/application and to find more human problems that the project can evolve to solve.The most fun is from the big problem,not some minor,on the way algorithm.Two the learning needed during the project.Third is seeing the thing I created.Forth is the structure of the software.Five,which is part of reason one,is the development and improvement of the idea or project.
Also there are more reasons.
Compared CS is very limited. The all point is that it is a long thinking process,an idea forming and developing,something that can occupy my mind for months(or more),one goal combining many problems.

 

[Sixup]

I don't know if it has to be software engineering. I imagine most kinds of analytical/engineering type career would be ideal. I don't know if we'll ever be "passionate" about these things in the way people tend to think about passion. I imagine it more as brief spikes of high satisfaction, with kind of a decent baseline level of satisfaction as the norm.

I think what would bring me more job satisfaction is not necessarily the work itself, but the way I can do the work and the environment. For instance, having to show up to the job every day, clock in, butt in chair in cubicle for 8 hours, becomes pretty depressing after a while. However, once you're good enough as a software engineer (or some other fields, but software definitely) there are jobs you can work remotely. Stay home, done when the work is done, less office politics, less meetings, flexibility. Seems ideal to me. I'm hoping I can get into this kind of situation within the next 5 years or so.

 

[Inquisitor]

I can totally get on board with the nature/nurture influencing the 4th function. Its a really interesting theory. Can you talk more about that in how it manifests itself in all types? Being an ISFP I have Te as my fourth and what I would give to have it be more developed..

Agreed that Te leads to the development of some very useful capabilities. That said, I believe deeply in reincarnation and karma. Make of that what you will. I believe you were born the way you were for a reason, and you weren't meant to be an ESTJ or ENTJ. Personally QuickTwist, given your consistent INTP results on most personality tests, I have my doubts as to your being an ISFP, but I will trust your judgment that you have typed yourself correctly.

The point I was making regarding the fourth function is that for all types, it will tend to draw the individual to things that would normally be the purview of that function in its dominant form, but in a primitive and sometimes perverted way.

So getting to specifics, in my experience, ISFPs do get a kick out of being the "commander." Giving orders to others and organizing their immediate environment is a kind of guilty pleasure for them. (And a source of much frustration for me growing up) You can also see it manifest through ISFPs becoming "rigid, dogmatic, and particular" when their beliefs about how the world works are challenged. In reality, they are poor thinkers, but enjoy believing themselves to be great at understanding external systems. Basically, they're closet tyrants and narcissists.

That may seem counter-intuitive in the sense that we would expect ESTJs and ENTJs to be the most tyrannical, but I've actually not found that to be the case. They excel at being in command b/c they're constantly adapting to external circumstances and logically deciding on the best course of action, not b/c they're good at forcefully imposing themselves on others. In fact, Te doms I do know try to avoid doing this since it's rarely an effective option, choosing strategem instead.

Case in point: my ISFP mother will visit a country, have pleasant conversations with a few individuals, and then conclude from those anecdotes alone that people in that country are generally very happy. She'll put more credence in anecdotal evidence (whether she's seen it with her own two eyes directly or on TV) than in statistics and numbers. She'll try various vitamins and supplements exclusively b/c she saw a convincing news report on TV on the potential benefits of that one vitamin. Never mind the fact that there is very little evidence supporting supplementation, b/c she can't think her way through that evidence and generally views what she can't understand with suspicion, she dismisses it.

Now this is just one ISFP, and the point is that the inferior for all ISFPs will vary somewhat in its manifestation. They may find thinking heavy careers like those in STEM for example to be alluring, but thankfully, the data indicates that they don't often go this route.

 

[QuickTwist]

Agreed that Te leads to the development of some very useful capabilities. That said, I believe deeply in reincarnation and karma. Make of that what you will. I believe you were born the way you were for a reason, and you weren't meant to be an ESTJ or ENTJ. Personally QuickTwist, given your consistent INTP results on most personality tests, I have my doubts as to your being an ISFP, but I will trust your judgment that you have typed yourself correctly.

TBH. I greatly have my doubts on what type I am. All I'm really going on right now is the fact that I test as INTP at least 90% of the time and the fact that I belong to a skype group where my type has been talked about a lot and it seems the strongest voices seem to think I am ISFP. Funny enough, there are 2 INTP's who think I am INTP in this groups who are both male, but there are also several INTP females who think I am ISFP who type themselves as INTP and they say I am nothing like them so I cannot be INTP. *shrug*

The point I was making regarding the fourth function is that for all types, it will tend to draw the individual to things that would normally be the purview of that function in its dominant form, but in a primitive and sometimes perverted way.

I was more interested in this kind of answer. I was hoping for a more "If... then..." statement regarding the nature/nurture and how it affects the 4th fuction. I didn't even want it to be about me and my type at all or any one type in particular.

So getting to specifics, in my experience, ISFPs do get a kick out of being the "commander." Giving orders to others and organizing their immediate environment is a kind of guilty pleasure for them. (And a source of much frustration for me growing up) You can also see it manifest through ISFPs becoming "rigid, dogmatic, and particular" when their beliefs about how the world works are challenged. In reality, they are poor thinkers, but enjoy believing themselves to be great at understanding external systems. Basically, they're closet tyrants and narcissists.

I can't say I like playing the leader. IDK tho, I have never really been a leader so don't know if that is why I don't care for it.

That may seem counter-intuitive in the sense that we would expect ESTJs and ENTJs to be the most tyrannical, but I've actually not found that to be the case. They excel at being in command b/c they're constantly adapting to external circumstances and logically deciding on the best course of action, not b/c they're good at forcefully imposing themselves on others. In fact, Te doms I do know try to avoid doing this since it's rarely an effective option, choosing strategem instead.

You are saying that Te is not inherently tyrannical and it greatly depends on the user of the function and how maturely developed the function is.

Case in point: my ISFP mother will visit a country, have pleasant conversations with a few individuals, and then conclude from those anecdotes alone that people in that country are generally very happy. She'll put more credence in anecdotal evidence (whether she's seen it with her own two eyes directly or on TV) than in statistics and numbers. She'll try various vitamins and supplements exclusively b/c she saw a convincing news report on TV on the potential benefits of that one vitamin. Never mind the fact that there is very little evidence supporting supplementation, b/c she can't think her way through that evidence and generally views what she can't understand with suspicion, she dismisses it.

I've always had a more tentative disposition, but there are some instances where I leap before looking, sure.

Now this is just one ISFP, and the point is that the inferior for all ISFPs will vary somewhat in its manifestation. They may find thinking heavy careers like those in STEM for example to be alluring, but thankfully, the data indicates that they don't often go this route.

The question, to me, is not whether it changes, but rather how it changes and what causes this change.

 

[Inquisitor]

I was more interested in this kind of answer. I was hoping for a more "If... then..." statement regarding the nature/nurture and how it affects the 4th fuction. I didn't even want it to be about me and my type at all or any one type in particular.

I see. My opinion is that the way the fourth function manifests will depend somewhat on upbringing.

For example, my mother the ISFP is greatly concerned with the plight of the downtrodden. I have read this is typical of ISFPs, but when I was growing up, she constantly emphasized her opinion that helping others was the source of the greatest joy one could have in life. Now on a very high level, yes that's true, but the way I interpreted this message was that I had to have a career helping others, or I would never feel satisfied. So that particular aspect of my inferior became particularly reinforced. At least that's my interpretation. There may be a genetic component to this as well, but I can't speculate on that.

Another example: My INTJ cousin is fairly materialistic and interested in making lots of money. He's in a top undergraduate business program majoring in finance and hopes to become a CFO. Frequently buys nice clothes and shoes and cares about he looks. His mother valued money, possessions, status, and wealth above everything else as far as I can tell. Obviously that's going to sink in somewhat into your kids, and especially if one of them is an INTJ with inferior Se, that aspect of the inferior will get stronger and make money seem very alluring.

That said, I have also known other INTJs that are not so materialistic. One of them, to give you yet another example, was not very interested in money or vain at all. He grew up in the bush in South Africa and both parents were physician-public health researchers striving to study and reduce malaria/tuberculosis in poor communities. Obviously, "materialistic" is not the first word that springs to mind when you think of such people. The way I saw Se manifest in him was through the standard INTJ interest in sex and love of food. Overall, though, I would say he was a very balanced individual and that his upbringing almost certainly had something to do with that.

As for how the inferior changes over time, I think the best anyone can do is to just leave it alone and strive to develop the other three functions instead. That's the recommended path according to Jungian analysts and authors. Very few ever become free of its temptations and false promises, but I think everyone can make significant progress through meditation. Buddhist meditation masters are probably some of the few that that have managed to find a way to live "in the middle" between their conscious and unconscious functions, detached yet able to make use of all of them as needed.

 

[Intolerable]

When the rubber meets the road a lot of careers boil down to being something other than they are portrayed to be.

Take computer animation for example. It is lauded as being a very creative field when it actually isn't. The same is true of graphic design to a lesser degree. You are just working on someone's vision. Not your own. Computer animation in practice is having the patience to sit still and refine a 30 second clip for months on end. Going over and over and over the entire 30 second clip until your boss is satisfied with the result was not my idea of fun or creative.

The careers in the social sphere also are not all they are cracked up to be. A lot of them have busy work, too that doesn't involve socializing. They have rules, regulations, the whole bit. FAR more than your usual software engineering outfit.

The one thing that keeps an INTP happy is usually the one thing every other type hates. Freedom from rules, regulations, a persistent social connection, etc. As a consequence the only thing ensuring you get what you want is to be so good at what you do that few others can fill your shoes. Make it so they need you and through needing you they tolerate your needs.

If they don't need you they sure as hell aren't going to tolerate you. Just keep that in the forefront of your mind. Enjoy what you do, strive to be the very best at it and don't cave when they expect you to wear that socially adept hat.