Social Rebellion

[komiyama-nahori]

When I was reading the description for INTP, I noticed that they said we have a problem with social rebellion, and that if we like music, it would be weird. What do other INTP's feel?

I like weird music and dress a little differently from others because I feel like I can dress whatever I want and listen to whatever I want without other people judging me (or maybe they do, but I just don't care) and also that it keeps people away so I can think in peace....

I am a full 30pt introvert, but there you have it

 

[Kassie]

I also listen to music that may seem weird. Most of the artists I like, other people haven't even heard of . I tend to dress in whatever I like at the time, so my wardrobe is spread across all different styles. If I'm not wearing one of those outfits, I'm in jeans and a t shirt.
Although, I have considered dressing like I just escaped from the asylum to see how people would react.

 

[jsibley1]

I don't think "rebel" is the right word. INTPs, I believe, are"live and let live" people that live fairly utilitarian. Musical tastes depend on upbringing, mood, availability, brain structure, etc.

My truck makes noises and has a dent in the front from when my dad backed into it one morning. I don't care about it and I won't fix it. My truck also makes squeeky noises and the valves are clicking. Generally, these aren't major problems, so I don't care to do anything about them. I'll go months, or sometimes years, between car washes. Why wash my truck? I'm going to drive it until the wheels fall off and I'm not out to impress people with my shiny truck. This isn't me being a rebel... this is me not seeing the point and hence, lacking motivation to do anything.

Sometimes I try to dress sharp.. but most of the time I wear what I can find.. even if the closes haven't been washed. Right now I wear boots, jeans, and a t-shirt.

My hair... if I feel like styling it at all, is a messy spike. I like short hair because it requires very little maintenance.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

I don't think "rebel" is the right word. INTPs, I believe, are"live and let live" people that live fairly utilitarian. Musical tastes depend on upbringing, mood, availability, brain structure, etc.

My truck makes noises and has a dent in the front from when my dad backed into it one morning. I don't care about it and I won't fix it. My truck also makes squeeky noises and the valves are clicking. Generally, these aren't major problems, so I don't care to do anything about them. I'll go months, or sometimes years, between car washes. Why wash my truck? I'm going to drive it until the wheels fall off and I'm not out to impress people with my shiny truck. This isn't me being a rebel... this is me not seeing the point and hence, lacking motivation to do anything.

Sometimes I try to dress sharp.. but most of the time I wear what I can find.. even if the closes haven't been washed. Right now I wear boots, jeans, and a t-shirt.

My hair... if I feel like styling it at all, is a messy spike. I like short hair because it requires very little maintenance.

I'm going with what is said here (especially the squeeky unwashed truck, I could have written the exact same thing)

I'll add that I think INTPs obey the rules and social norms that make sense to us. If we can't find a valid reason for something, we tend to defy it. It's not for the sake of wanting anarchy like some who deliberately defy convention just for the sake of defying convention. We are perfectly fine fitting in with something that has a reasoned purpose.

 

[Anthile]

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

Though I am an INTP, unlike the majority of people here, I do not rebel from tradition at all. I have no tattoos, piercings, or anything. I listen to lots of music, but almost all of it has been 'popular' at some point. Some minor things I may be mildly irritated at, like shaving or clipping one's fingernails, or whatever. Not typical of me though.

On the other hand, I live around Seattle where the atmosphere is very progressive. So it may be that my need for social rebellion is actually being met by being a reactionary.

 

[nickgray]

Personally I don't care about any social stuff. I do like to criticize and argue about it, but ultimately I don't give a rat's ass. I have concepts, traditions and mind of my own, thank you.

 

[Puffy]

I listen to strange music (dress normally though) I wouldn't say it's to rebel it's just what appeals to my ear. Same with my values etc

 

[Trebuchet]

I've never been rebellious. I am a non-conformist, I suppose, because I don't conform in order to please other people. Sometimes I like popular music; sometimes I don't. But a rebel would go out and make a point of listening to weird music in public. I hate when other people inflict their loud music on me, so I don't do it to anyone else.

Is it weird to like Jazz and soundtracks?

 

[BrokenVows]

I was attracted the social rebellion when I was younger, and it still very much shapes the world around me. In high school I became obsessed with punk / hardcore / anarchist culture. I attended several protests, stopped eating meat, frequented local gigs, dyed my hair crazy colors, studded my clothes... As Ive gotten older and not hanging around the same people, I eventually grew out of those clothes, or just started feeling weird about my obscene fashion sense... I started reading more, staying in, playing more music, not noise. My core values shaped by the counter culture I still hold true.

I still wear a bunch of old punk shirts, but dress more casual. I tend to try and dress normal enough to go unnoticed, but still add a fucked up shirt every now and then to throw people off. Next day I could be wearing a long sleeved collared shirt.

Ive noticed I can't stand wearing certain things though... Like, my jeans cannot be baggy, they have to be tappered leg. Shorts I cant stand when they go past my knees, so I wear tinier shorts than most men. haha. But I think it just looks sharper.

Now as far as music goes... It has to fit my current mood, but I like a huge variety of stuff. Punk hardcore, to psychedelic folk guitar, to avant garde jazz and spectral compostion. Music is my main passion. I play and build microtonal guitars. I still have a lot of respect for music I was more into in the past. It delivered a sense of rebellious urgency...

theres my 2 cents

 

[RubberDucky451]

Weird music is amazing, I love world music. Balkan,Mongolian,Japanese,African etc.

I don't really care what i wear, i don't see the need to put so much effort just to look good.

 

[Scourgexlvii]

I don't rebel, but I feel as rebellion, and breaking from tradition is natural and good, Just I don't myself rebel. Also, I like Punk music, which often encourages Rebellion... so... yeah...

 

[420MuNkEy]

I don't intentionally 'rebel', I just do what makes sense to me. I don't understand the type of people who make their bed after they get out of it (especially the ones who live alone), I mean, what's the damn point? People are too obsessive about little things like that and get weirded out if other people don't share their obsessions.

As for my music, I have been told it's quite strange. 'Tito Puente', 'Yppah', 'edIT', 'RJD2', 'Hideki Naganuma', 'Badmarsh & Shri', 'Mr. Oizo', 'Chris Joss', 'Cex', 'DJ Shadow', 'The Black Keys', 'Ulrich Schnauss', 'Röyksopp', '65daysofstatic', Copy, and 'Minotaur Shock' are the artists on my current playlist. Most of you have probably never heard of any of them.

 

[SchizoidAndroid]

edIT is good.

but my real love is noize.

rebellion is impossible in many ways, as people usually conceive of it. it is a necessary part of any system, so how could it be against the meta system? might as well just do whatever the fuck you want.

 

[Döden]

Looks like the most popular form of "rebellion" is music XD
People say I listen to really weird music. It's less about rebelling and more that I'm pretty critical about music, so it'll likely bore me if it's not "weird" in some way. That isn't to say if it's slightly below the popular radar I'll like it though. Psychobilly is pretty weird and it bores the shit out of me.

Actually, when I was younger I tried pretty hard to fit in. I even told a teacher I was trying to dumb myself down because I'd always correct people's grammar and they thought I used "big words." I had self-esteem issues though, since I had terrible friends back then who didn't accept me as I was. Terrible times.

Nowadays I just do my own thing. People who don't like that are a waste of time.

 

[EditorOne]

"a problem with social rebellion"

I don't have a problem with social rebellion, I'm all for it.

I like old doo wop songs. One could say that is not rebellious or weird -- except nobody else I know, including my wife, gets the least enjoyment out of it. So "weird music" may be a relative thing. Weird compared to what, these days?

BTW "Wide Wide River," often known as "River of Shit," by the Fugs, is 60s protest set to a kinda sorta doowop. Flapjacks of sorrow indeed.

http://www.last.fm/music/The+Fugs/_/Wide+Wide+River

 

[BrokenVows]

The common attitude here is, "I just do what I want". I suppose that could be perceived as rebellious..

 

[420MuNkEy]

The common attitude here is, "I just do what I want". I suppose that could be perceived as rebellious..

That reminds me, we probably should factor in the fact that other personalities care about others. Maybe it's our lack of a 'need to be liked' that makes it seem as though we are deliberately rebellious.

 

[Agent Intellect]

I eat Apple Jacks, even though they don't taste like apple.

Why?

Because I eat what I like.

 

[Dormouse]

Someone recently told me I was a non-conformist.
My initial reaction was ' Wut? '.

It's not even that I don't care what others think. I care, I'm just too damn lazy to bother doing anything about it. (Only after that do I rationalize my weirdness)

 

[Zero]

Your N was only a three....

All of mine were moderate, but for T which was Clear (18) P was my second highest, I my lowest. N was 14.

Erm, I listen to what I want. I don't think much about what other people think of it. It's music...

I dress... so that I have cloths on. I kind of wish I had a style and would pull it off. I'm ...lazy... When I feel up to trying I will.

I have tats and such. I forget that that's... "rebellious". Everyone around here has tats at least.

 

[warryer]

As for my music, I have been told it's quite strange. 'Tito Puente', 'Yppah', 'edIT', 'RJD2', 'Hideki Naganuma', 'Badmarsh & Shri', 'Mr. Oizo', 'Chris Joss', 'Cex', 'DJ Shadow', 'The Black Keys', 'Ulrich Schnauss', 'Röyksopp', '65daysofstatic', Copy, and 'Minotaur Shock' are the artists on my current playlist. Most of you have probably never heard of any of them.

The guys from The Black Keys are from my school. They are before my time but still pretty cool. Who said Akron was a complete dump?

Anyhow, as far as rebelling? I guess if you are on the inside you could call it that but its not intentional. I go with what I like. No sense doing something you don't enjoy.


@Jsibley

My car, before I totaled it, was a piece of crap but, it was my piece of crap. Each dent, scratch and squeal had a story to tell and I was proud of it. I would always let the rain handle giving the body a rinse.

 

[Puffy]

Being different, or liking weird things because you like it doesn't make you rebellious, doing it purposely to be different does. I'd say from the INTP description we're fairly unrebellious, we want to fit into the crowd without being noticed not the opposite.

 

[GYX_Kid]

I don't intentionally 'rebel', I just do what makes sense to me. I don't understand the type of people who make their bed after they get out of it (especially the ones who live alone), I mean, what's the damn point? People are too obsessive about little things like that and get weirded out if other people don't share their obsessions.

same.


Rebellion, to me, is taking whatever challenged your ease with self and standing up to or openly defying it. For a lot of more fully directly self-oriented people this means basic equal-terms revenge (if the thing was considered a person), and for the social-minded it means setting up a device intended to divert attention away from habitual sheep mentality, etc.


I listen to a lot of music that would be considered energetic, abrasive, or hell-spawned, and a lot that I find some other kind of meaningful substance in. I tend to find artists on my own, and have particular favorites more than sticking to what's considered "the best" of one established genre.

 

[EditorOne]

^ That's one way to tackle it, and a good one.

Sometimes I think it's others who use the word rebellion. What we're doing is executing the principle that people (OK, "we") ought to be judged on the value of the content, our ideas and abilities and accomplishments, not on the trappings and appearance. That principle gets limited application in the real world, where the right appearance opens doors and the wrong one closes them, even if the lady closed out is the one who has the idea that would, say, kick a business into profitability, cure cancer and bestow world peace.

I am masquerading now in my newest business venture, dressing spiffy, even wearing a tie and minding my body language, projecting authority and conventional appearance. Simply astonishing how people respond. I choose to be amused rather than repelled, but then I milked the "Lt. Columbo" disheveled-appearance-disguising-a-sharp-mind for an entire career in journalism. :-)

 

[Nawyrus]

I do what makes sense to me, society's guidelines have no influence. e.g. I don't say 'good morning' and never will. When I've given serious thought to something and established a decent opinion, I won't change it after someone's sloppy argument, usually emotional. Because of this I can be seen as stubborn, I'm just sincere in relation to my ideals. Some people suppose I never back up, they say I think I'm always right, if only they knew how much I question myself, to a crippling point.

 

[Paranoid Android]

Sometimes I feel I have to look like a weirdo. I know I would feel myself betrayed if I wore typical clothes. Maybe it's because I really want to show people that there are unknown ways, and they should think about them, not just living in their box. I know it's totally useless, it's just for my comfort. However I love the clothes I wear, this is just the part of the ordinary war inside me. By the way yes, rebellion is controversial like nearly everything in this world. If you'll rebell, you'll just stronger the system, like a virus. It's like conformist thinking -the group needs the rebels to have exaggerated opinions to get the best ideas and not just mediocre issues.

 

[downsowf]

The idea of being a rebel because you listen to a certain kind of music or wear different clothes is absurd. That is the superficial sort of rebellion. Eventually, wearing that type of clothing (i.e. goth) becomes a sort of uniform. And there's nothing rebellious about that. Being disagreeable for the sake of being disagreeable is not rebellion either. Standing up for what you believe in and adhering by certain values means that you're a principled person. It's a sad day when being a principled person is a sort of rebellion.

I don't know what true rebellion is. I can think of certain events and examples of people, but I'll let someone else categorize or worry about the labels. So FUCK OFF! ya i'm a rebel.

 

[shortbuss]

I had school uniforms, and it was the rule that we tuck in our shirts. I thought it was a dumb rule so I never tucked in my shirt. One day my teacher told me I was trying to be a rebel, and the thought had truly never crossed my mind- I just thought the rule was dumb, and thus I didn't have to follow it. I didn't mind being told to tuck it in, but I would wait for someone to make me do it, because it was simply more comfy not tucked, and it was worth the risk of being called out by a teacher every now and then.

Every now and then I realize how constrained by social norms people are when I accidentally shock people by making an ass of myself for fun, and then realize I crossed some line of acceptable behavior, lol.

 

[Master of Disgrace]

I can't seem to find anything that would form any direct correlation between "social rebellion" and an INTP. If anything our simple carelessness with much of our tangible possessions could be seen as a minor form, but none the less, a intelligent observer would discern the true root. Honestly, whoever wrote the description in which the original poster was referencing, was most likely not an INTP.

If we really try and understand "social rebellion", we come to find that it is really just a divergence from the hegemonic outlook that many people have, and share in an almost communal way. Personally, I try, on the outside at least, to keep within this constraint. It is only in my mind where the true divergence may occur. Another poster mentioned the exact same thing of course, albeit in different words.

Many of the comments of this thread touched on ideas in which I agree with. Truly, the only reason I want to make my own personal comment is this. Many day to day things, in which INTP's may or may not do, reflects who they are. I know I should make my bed, fix my truck, wash my clothes, and dress appropriately. I just find a huge amount of procrastination, which is almost seductive. I hop on my computer constantly to research something that has come to mind, study systems such as programming, poker, physics, and a myriad of other, just a useless pursuits. Why? Because I can't help myself. Its what I like to do.

I feel that some people posting are almost romanticizing this term "social rebellion", indirectly of course. I think that if anything, when referencing to INTP's in particular a new term, "social nonobservance" should be used. Also, if you really want to rebel, just pull the trigger, that will show em .

I really don't think I said anything that hasn't been said before but this thread got me thinking and I just felt like I wanted to post.

 

[CBadfeather]

I feel that some people posting are almost romanticizing this term "social rebellion", indirectly of course. I think that if anything, when referencing to INTP's in particular a new term, "social nonobservance" should be used.

I agree. that's a good term. I basically see it as I only adhere to my objective idea of what's cool which is usually different from the mainstream AND the counterculture. I kind of take pride when it confuses the more traditional types that need a label for you.

 

[myexplodingcat]

I listen to weird music. Andrew Bird, Joanna Newsom, DM Stith, Sufjan Stevens, The Decemberists, Radiohead (I don't care if it's popular, it's still odd), The White Stripes, Explosions in the Sky... and Muse and Weird Al Yankovic. (Yes.) I'm a teenage girl. I dress normally... actually, that can't be said. Most people at my school wear really revealing stuff, sweat pants/pajama pants, or some combination thereof. I dress in jeans and solid-color T-shirts, and a hoodie or a jacket or something. Usually I go from sandals directly to boots, but this year I'm liking my white tennis shoes pretty well. And I'm usually in brighter colors than the rest of the world. I'm pretty sure that doesn't constitute odd. I'm a weird person in that I talk in complete sentences and don't use "like" all the time. I carry around psychology textbooks and jabber on about how someone's acting like an ENFP or whatever. My political views are pretty rebellious. Newt Gingrich for President! http://www.intpforum.com/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif

 

[crippli]

The idea of being a rebel because you listen to a certain kind of music or wear different clothes is absurd. That is the superficial sort of rebellion. Eventually, wearing that type of clothing (i.e. goth) becomes a sort of uniform. And there's nothing rebellious about that. Being disagreeable for the sake of being disagreeable is not rebellion either. Standing up for what you believe in and adhering by certain values means that you're a principled person. It's a sad day when being a principled person is a sort of rebellion.

I don't know what true rebellion is. I can think of certain events and examples of people, but I'll let someone else categorize or worry about the labels. So FUCK OFF! ya i'm a rebel.

True rebellion could be what you do not notice, but changes your reality? Not the taking down a dictator. But that which changes everything. Like when women started to wear pants. That was the first step towards a western liberation in individual freedom for personal expression. And it's interesting to note, that it doesn't take that long time, perhaps only 2-3 generations, before new realities are formed. And new standards are set.

The common way people dress are uniforms, perhaps even more rigid, in different ways, then the military. It's just the same. Notice the reactions if you dress differently then what you are expected to do. I suspect these superficial rebellions are the most effective ones, the ones that makes the greatest impact towards change. One flooded river can flood a lot of houses. But trillions of tiny raindrops is what tears down mountains.

For the record. I don't consider myself to be particularly rebellious. But I am generally supporting of rebellions, the slow and sneaky ones. Those that erupt in a feast of testosterone tend to not accomplish anything of lasting value.

 

[Otherside]

When I was in school, I always dressed casually.. blue jeans, plain shirt. I didn't want to stand out or draw attention to myself.

As for music, I'm a Beatles freak. The only thing weird about that is that they were no longer making music when I became a fan. Everyone else was into Van Halen.

However, I was very much a social rebel. I just did it quietly. Many of my friend's parents viewed me as a "bad influence", often rightfully so.