Sleeping

[dark]

I took a glance around and didn't find this topic, which with my internet abilities haha, it could be here, so here it is.

Anyhow.

I essentially have problems going to sleep essentially. Have always had them since I was a little kid. My mind never wants to calm down, it is just too active. I have talked about this with my INTJ friend, and she has the same problems. I have talked to other friends about this, none that are NT, and none of them have this problem, they tend to fall asleep as soon as they lay down.

What causes this kind of "thing?" Also is this a common NT thing or does it have absolutely nothing to do with typology? I assume the latter. But if anyone else tends to have had the same problems, what have you done to solve this? Currently it isn't a problem, only a bother. I dislike spending about an hour laying down thinking, imagining things until my mind fatigues finally and I fall asleep.

Also if anyone wants, they could post what they tend to imagine or think about before they sleep. I tend to imagine that I was born into a world where humanity was advanced enough to space travel anywhere in the galaxy/universe, and I tend to think of what I would do, and what other worlds would be like. I also wonder about the center of all thing, and essentially the universe itself. I have came up with many nice ideas that I tend to prove incorrect later, but they sound profound at the time.

Could these problems just be a mind focusing thing? I have no anxiety at all, but my friend does. I have read that anxiety causes lack of focus, which without anxiety I don't see how it works for me. Could I just have a brain that is that bad? haha, Probably so.

 

[Black Rose]

I hope this helps.

YouTube - Rock Lee Naruto AMV - Speed of sound

 

[Melllvar]

I take melatonin to get to sleep. It's pretty much harmless, is naturally occurring in the brain, and definitely helps to knock me out. It's also a lot more pleasant than any other sleeping pills I've tried. They also say that it only works on some people, but I can't really confirm that, cause it definitely helps me.

It's just an over the counter dietary supplement, not an actual sleeping pill. You could easily take it and stay awake, it'll just make it easier to get to sleep if you are trying to. Helps with the "overactive mind" and stuff.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

This was once a significant problem for me when I was younger, as it used to take upwards of two hours before I could fall asleep and it wasn't uncommon for me to stay wide awake until dawn.

My solution was thought loops. This entails coaxing your mind into calming and repetitive thought patterns without being consciously aware of what you're doing (if you're aware of it, it backfires). I generally do this with fictional narrative. I've developed a figurative crackton of plot lines, stories and characters over the years. Some are entirely original, while others are my personal takes on borrowed creative universes. I explore these narratives, sometimes fine-tuning specific aspects (visual, audial, dialog, expression, character-thought, character meta-thought), sometimes merely entertaining myself. They're all purposefully fictional, because thinking about real people that you have vested interest in, is never good for sleep. It cannot be so engaging that sleep eludes you, but it has to be engaging enough so that you're not thinking about your need to sleep, the particulars of your day, worries, etc. What usually happens to me is that I'll start juggling many different mental aspects, and in the half-relaxed state I won't have a clear hold on exactly what I'm trying accomplish. I'll begin revisiting finished aspects, fleshing out details I'd already fleshed out, but that my mind had let slip away. See at this point I'm pretty much no longer conscious and slipping more and more into a dream state. It blurs the line between conscious and not, and as long as I'm not grasping for clarity it comes gentle and easy.

You don't have to use narratives either. I actually discovered my father did something similar with geometric shapes, patterns and tessellations. Sometimes I'll switch to graphical or musical representations. For me it's imperative to avoid thinking about real life scenarios or people and not to engage myself or my thought patterns directly as I normally do throughout the day.

All-in-all I can generally get myself to sleep in 15 minutes or less nowadays.

 

[gruesomebrat]

I do something similar to Adaire. The biggest difference is that I don't have a problem with using real-life scenarios. Essentially, I'll pick an aspect of my life, pick one possible avenue of choice, and follow that through to it's conclusion. It's an interesting mind-game, and allows me to focus on something other than my need for sleep, just long enough to fall asleep. You only use real-life as a jumping board of sorts, and then project future decisions based on what you think other people's reactions to your decisions will be. I've actually made some really important personal discoveries while trying to fall asleep, and at those times, this method sort of backfires, but for the most part, it works for me. I think the big thing about trying to fall asleep is that it's more about distracting yourself than necessarily clearing your mind. Although, meditation has worked to put me to sleep on occasion. Meditation takes a bit longer though, and requires so much more effort. I generally use meditation more for relaxation and future projections for going to sleep.

 

[GottabeKB]

I do something similar to Adaire. The biggest difference is that I don't have a problem with using real-life scenarios. Essentially, I'll pick an aspect of my life, pick one possible avenue of choice, and follow that through to it's conclusion. It's an interesting mind-game, and allows me to focus on something other than my need for sleep, just long enough to fall asleep. You only use real-life as a jumping board of sorts, and then project future decisions based on what you think other people's reactions to your decisions will be. I've actually made some really important personal discoveries while trying to fall asleep, and at those times, this method sort of backfires, but for the most part, it works for me. I think the big thing about trying to fall asleep is that it's more about distracting yourself than necessarily clearing your mind. Although, meditation has worked to put me to sleep on occasion. Meditation takes a bit longer though, and requires so much more effort. I generally use meditation more for relaxation and future projections for going to sleep.

Huh, I'm amazed at how similar our mechanism is for going to sleep. I almost always picture a scene of my real life and then go forth from there, picturing myself in different contexts, how if I said one thing, what the other person would say etc. However I often will lead into thinking about some sort of alternate universe where you can fly or everybody has guns with lasers on them. I basically let my real world scenario morph into a science fiction scenario which is usually pretty awesome and is different enough from the real world so as to not suffer from anxieties or worry from real world subjects. Once I've gotten to the science fiction state I still often have real world people in that scenario but since their reactions and the way they use and I use technology are so different from real world use, I find myself slowly drifting into a dream state.
One thing I have noticed though is that when I focus too much on the real world and how different situations within the real world would play out, without moving towards an other-worldly state I will often get anxious or try and find what the best opportunity is for some scenario. (Ex. I try and think of the best way to approach my friend about using his car to go out shopping. However what I actually want to do is take it out for a joy ride... I find myself thinking too much on exacting my approach and not "letting myself go" so to speak, that I stay mulling over different approaches an endless amount of times.)

What I found especially helpful is to not eat before bed, especially if it contains sugar because your body will try and turn this into energy and then you will want to spend this energy instead of trying to sleep in your bed. As well I found soothing soft music is really helpful as well.

I live in an apartment with a bunch of guys and I have a roommate who actually sleeps in the same room as I. The thing is he can go to sleep almost instantly and I take, at the least, a half hour to get to sleep, if not an hour or more. This aggravates me to no end and I constantly ask him for his magical sleeping powers but he hasn't been able to transfer them over yet. I think he may be an "S" type but I can't say for sure. I'm pretty sure he is an extrovert so perhaps because he finds his energy in external stimuli he is able to sleep easier? (from merriam-webster dictionary- "Extroversion is "the act, state, or habit of being predominantly concerned with and obtaining gratification from what is outside the self"")As opposed to me who must mull over things in my head, ("Introversion is "the state of or tendency toward being wholly or predominantly concerned with and interested in one's own mental life""). Therefore it is entirely easy for him to sleep because he focuses on things outside of himself, thus when he goes to his bed he is not stimulated like I am with my thoughts within my self that are not subject to an external environment- simply an hypothesis

 

[EyeSeeCold]

http://ptsd.about.com/od/glossary/g/hyperarousaldef.htm

• Having a difficult time falling or staying asleep.
• Feeling more irritable or having outbursts of anger.
• Having difficulty concentrating.
• Feeling constantly "on guard" or like danger is lurking around every corner.
• Being "jumpy" or easily startled.

I have a less severe version, since it didn't come about from PTSD.

I'm not one to get more than 8 hours of sleep, unless I stay up for more than a day's usual hours prior to sleeping - which still doesn't give me full revitalization.

During school I constantly got between 4-7 hours of sleep. And had to endure a 12-13 hour day since I lived so far. This went on for 4 years. Many times I fell asleep on the bus and even missed my stops. I slept through class all the time. I shouldn't have even passed Spanish.

Ever since I was a kid I had trouble with staying up later than everyone else and being unable to go to sleep.


=========

To sleep, I either:
Let my imagination wander
Listen to music
Think

I once took sleep pills within a few weeks, not sure if they worked. Haven't tried anything else.

 

[Trebuchet]

Chronic insomnia is a miserable thing. You can find a lot of good information at the National Sleep Foundation website. They have a huge compilation of research and resources. Your problem is very, very common. While the details of your busy mind may be related to personality type, insomnia isn't an INTP thing at all.

 

[Stoic Beverage]

I had troubles with sleep in the past (not severe, just laying awake for an hour or so), and it continued until about a year ago. Nothing special happened, but in the span of about a week, I more or less "figured out" how to sleep quickly. It's not really an activity or a specific thought process, I just lower my level of consciousness to the point where I'm almost out before I lay down.
I'm sure that's hardly any help.

Then again, that's around the time I started meditating, so that's probably what triggered increased control of my mental state.

 

[socialexpat]

Where did i see this before ..

 

[Jesse]

Didn't we just have this tread?