Six questions about self-esteem

[Miss spelt]

Definitions from Wikipedia.

In sociology and psychology, self-esteem reflects a person's overall subjective emotional evaluation of his or her own worth. It is a judgment of oneself as well as an attitude toward the self. Self-esteem encompasses beliefs (for example, "I am competent", "I am worthy") and emotions such as triumph, despair, pride, and shame.

The socio-psychological concept of self-confidence relates to self-assurance in one's personal judgment, ability, power, etc.

I've noticed lately that I have been experiencing real issues with my self-esteem yet my self-confidence does not feel affected. Looking back on my life, I wonder if I have always been this way. I'd like to hear from others about what these concepts mean, what they are, and how you experience change.

Feel free to answer as many or as few of the following questions as you can be bothered with. I'm going to answer them all to start things off.

Questions :?: :?:

1) How high is your self-esteem, both relative to others, and on an absolute scale?

My self esteem is low, on an absolute scale. There are days when I feel completely worthless, less than human, unwanted by all, and inherently undesirable.

Relative to others, I'm not really sure, but I think it's perhaps much lower than average, while still sitting higher than those individuals with persistent and severe problems. Perhaps 30th percentile.

2) Has it ever been lower or higher than it is now? What created the change?

My perception of my self-worth certainly fluctuates..minute by minute basically. However, if you were to distill every aspect of self-esteem into a single numerical value, (let's say 0-100)* then it has probably never been higher than 60 at a given moment in my life, and usually sits around 20.

Changes in my self-esteem are largely impacted by the opposite sex, but to a lesser extent, friends of the same sex as well. Typically, after an episode of failure or rejection accompanying a sincere effort to establish or build relationships, my self-esteem plummets, and I enter self-destruct mode. I'm sure it's utterly despicable to others; in fact, I deliberately make sure that I am nothing but despicable.
This is because I truly feel worthless, and convince myself I am worthless. This is a very low self-esteem, and a vicious cycle (i.e. positive feedback loop) where the more worthless I feel, the more worthless I act, the more likely I am to be rejected, thus the more worthless I subsequently feel.

*absolute values mind you, not relative (percentile).

3) Where does self-esteem come from? How is it affected on a daily basis, or is it consistent??

Self-esteem is often said to come from "within". Happiness resides deep inside of you, they say, and self respect is the primary effector of self-esteem, in a similar fashion to the way we hold others in high esteem when we have respect for them.

Allowing your self-esteem to be affected by others is pathological. When I am rejected by the opposite sex, for example, I notice my self-esteem drops to critically low levels, and I understand that I should not allow this to happen. As explained above, this only makes the issue worse.

4) What about self confidence ... how high is your self confidence? Relative to others, as well as absolutely.

Self confidence, on the other hand, is very natural to me. On an absolute scale, I have high or even very high self confidence. I believe sincerely in my abilities, my power, my judgement, rationale/logical reasoning, etc.

Relative to others, it is even higher, quite possibly in the 90th percentile or above. Although I am open minded and pragmatic, I trust my judgement above others, I trust my abilities above others (with the exception being that I have judged their abilities to be superior than my own). I am aware of my good looks, and my physical prowess, my skill with the guitar, the knowledge which I hold, etc.

5) Does your self-confidence fluctuate? What causes this? Is it more, or less consistent than your self-esteem? Would you say one impacts the other (are they correlated)?

My self-confidence only fluctuates marginally. If I am in a situation that I am unfamiliar with, I am slightly less confident about how I should be acting, but only slightly. When motivated to act out, either intrinsically or by others, I will use good judgement. Therefore, my self confidence is much more consistent than my self-esteem.

I do believe there is some correlation, but it is probably small, however I only have myself as an example. I believe there are probably a good many people with high self-esteem and low self-confidence. To me, this configuration is less pathological/more normal for healthy functioning.

6) Is low self-esteem characteristic of borderline PD, in your opinion? What about low self-confidence? How do these concepts relate to narcissistic PD?

In my opinion, low self-esteem is very characteristic of Borderline PD, in fact I believe it is a defining characteristic. Therefore, individuals with BPD can likely be predicted to have low (30th percentile or less) self-esteem, overall.

With regards to self-confidence, I believe it is only marginally related to BPD. I think that Borderline individuals will exhibit a fairly normal distribution of self confidence, with most individuals falling within the "average" range.

As for narcissistic PD, I believe that the "false persona" will appear to have extremely high levels of self-esteem and self-confidence. That being said, it is often suggested this is a compensatory measure that makes up for exceptionally LOW self-esteem. Quite likely lower than mine, and lower even than most borderlines.

With regards to NPD and self-confidence, I think that we will again see a fairly normal distribution.

Concluding remarks

After answering these questions and thinking carefully about the two concepts, I think self-esteem and self-confidence are only marginally correlated to each other. I have no sociological research at hand to back this up, it is only a thought experiment.

I think self-esteem is characteristically low in both BPD and NPD, whereas self-confidence probably observes a normal distribution in both disorders, on average.

:.:.:.:.:.:.:.

Your thoughts?

 

[Urakro]

Not sure how to reason it, but I can relate to a lot of your answers.

It makes me remember when I was required to go cut wood for wood furnaces in winter. I felt I was an important part in a cohesive group.

Another time during some gathering, some guy I didn't know was asking everyone if someone could help move his stuff to his new house. I ended being the only one who blurted out that I would. He was very appreciative, and as an unexpected bonus I ended up getting payed.

I rarely put myself in those opportunities now though, which may stem from the confidence part. Am I able to deliver what I promise, or is it possible I might become a disappointment?

I would have to disagree that happiness comes only from within. If someone got the shit kicked out of them, they wouldn't be all that nuts if they found themselves undesirable. It's weird how people attribute the feeling of being unworthy as just a trippy hallucination. I'd say there had to be an event that suggested the notion, and some more events that enforced it. Events which most likely became cognitively over-valued.

It does seem hard to relate to people. I would say though that if you take any two strangers and just put them in a room with nothing else, they would tend to have awkward resentments for each other as there's nothing there to connect with. It's easier if there's a third element that links them. Strong bonds could be easily created with people sharing similar challenges or difficulties. For example, the same unrealistic loads of homework, or employees of the same evil boss.

 

[HunterLatherer]

1) How high is your self-esteem, both relative to others, and on an absolute scale?[/COLOR]

Relative to others, probably fairly low. But others may just be projecting an image of high self esteem, so this is difficult to answer for me.

On absolute scale, mine is probably at about 60 at the moment.

2) Has it ever been lower or higher than it is now? What created the change?

My whole life until about 6-12 months ago it's been ridiculously low. Low enough for me to consider suicide fairly often, and to actually believe everyone I know would be better off without me.

3) Where does self-esteem come from? How is it affected on a daily basis, or is it consistent??

A combination of external factors and how well you deal with these factors internally would have a huge impact. External factors are less likely to negatively influence my self esteem at the moment because internally I feel better about myself.

I think if I were to write about all the things that contributed to my low/high self esteem I'd need to dedicate a whole post to it.

When you're relying less on external validation to make you value yourself, your levels of self esteem will be more consistent. When my self esteem was lower it also fluctuated a lot more, now it's more steady.

4) What about self confidence ... how high is your self confidence? Relative to others, as well as absolutely.

Confidence has always been something I've faked for most of my life. I'm kind of self confident in some aspects, I believe in my own ability to logically work some things out. But when it comes to a lot of other things I have no self confidence, I still myself as this awkward nerdy teenager even though I know people don't see me that way.

5) Does your self-confidence fluctuate? What causes this? Is it more, or less consistent than your self-esteem? Would you say one impacts the other (are they correlated)?

I think it's always kind of low, but sometimes it will spike. If I do something that shows me I'm not as shit as I thought that helps I guess, and vice versa.

The possibility that these things are correlated makes a lot of sense to me. If something boosts one it probably has the potential to boost the other.

6) Is low self-esteem characteristic of borderline PD, in your opinion? What about low self-confidence? How do these concepts relate to narcissistic PD?


I think low self esteem plays a part in a lot of mental health issues and personality disorders. Whether it's caused by these things or the other way round I couldn't tell you.

Sorry I rushed this, I need to go have a shower and eat something about an hour ago.

 

[Sinny91]

I can confidently confess..

 

[Minuend]

As I got half way through these questions, I realize why there was so few answers to this thread (possibly). These are very long and open questions where you could probably write an essay on each of the 6 points. I'll try to keep it short, though.

1) How high is your self-esteem, both relative to others, and on an absolute scale?

I guess it's a bit on the low side, but I try to have a somewhat realistic perspective about my self, though that's somewhat of a tricky thing because bias feels etc*. Though, instead of thinking about how I feel about myself, I try to accept what I am and just work with character traits I don't like. I've definitively "evolved" the last 5 years and I hope I will have done so again in another 5 years. So even if I find something very bothersome about myself now, it might not continue to be so in the future if I work to change it.

*to me relative to others and absolute scale is somewhat the same in this context. There's at least no point in differentiating it for what I'm trying to say.

2) Has it ever been lower or higher than it is now? What created the change?

Been fairly low my entire life. I changed when I realized it was useless to feel bad about myself since I couldn't be magically born into someone else. I might as well accept myself and feel ok and attempt change, rather than be stuck in an endless spiral of destructive self loathing. It was just unlogical to allow myself to remain in that mental state. Even if a lot of people were bothered by me, I still wouldn't be able to change in a day, so it was useless.

So in essence, by not hating myself I feel better about existing and is also more able to focus on things I want to do. While when I hated myself that would occupy my thoughts and interfere with motivation and such. The former is just a more constructive mind state to live with.

3) Where does self-esteem come from? How is it affected on a daily basis, or is it consistent??

I guess it depends where it comes from. Some replenish it from the outside. I've read girls admit they update their FB profile pic often just to get the likes and praise. That tends to be a fragile type of self esteem.

I think one of the best methods, and also one of the most cliches, is looking to better yourself and see how you are able to improve if you try to do so. Even if it's just a videogame where you become better and become able to beat up people who previously beat you. Just that realization and feeling of mastery.

I am better at understanding people than I was a few years back. And even if I haven't mastered it (if that's possible) or am super good at it, I definitively feel good about being able to extend myself in that way, to improve some mental cognition in that area.

I think that some cliches one doesn't really understand the meaning of until one is in that mental state. At least these were one of the cliches I understood the meaning of, but not in an emotional and mental state implications type of way. So I didn't really "get it".


4) What about self confidence ... how high is your self confidence? Relative to others, as well as absolutely.

I think it's very low, which makes me reluctant to try new things and such. But it's only a problem insofar that it makes me a cowardly wimp of an avoidance master. I also tend to be biased to see me messing up as a worse thing that it is and thinking others are more easily able to do things right.

5) Does your self-confidence fluctuate? What causes this? Is it more, or less consistent than your self-esteem? Would you say one impacts the other (are they correlated)?

If I have become decent at something, being it work or other things, my self confidence in that area will usually be constant. Unless I mess up when I was completely certain I wouldn't. That's not very likely to happen as when I reach that level of mastery, I can usually account for any possibility where things might go wrong (sometimes I'll just yolo it anyways).

It's more consistent than my self esteem. My self esteem is more easily influenced by when bad things happen to me. I more easily start doubting myself and ask myself whether I'm actually "right" or just crazy and everyone else is right. Or doubting whether a character trait is really a good or constructive thing etc.

They impact each other usually. I think they are correlated to some degree, but there are character traits, environments, situations where they'd split more. Long topic, I'll end it here.

6) Is low self-esteem characteristic of borderline PD, in your opinion? What about low self-confidence? How do these concepts relate to narcissistic PD?


I know nothing about borderline. I've observed NPD in a few individuals. I think I'll leave this open for now. I'm exhausted.

 

[Brontosaurie]

1) How high is your self-esteem, both relative to others, and on an absolute scale?

I don't have one consistent self-esteem. In practicality, it's usually too low. The expression of this is sometimes a cocky, controversial attitude that might appear the opposite of insecurity if i may guess. In other cases i just blank out and wish i wasn't there, which may also appear arrogant and so on.

2) Has it ever been lower or higher than it is now? What created the change?

In the overall trend, it's slowly increasing. But also decreasing. Nah i don't know.

3) Where does self-esteem come from? How is it affected on a daily basis, or is it consistent??

Self-esteem come from affirmation.

4) What about self confidence ... how high is your self confidence? Relative to others, as well as absolutely.

It's low. My deliberate performance level and discipline are much smaller than my capacity and peak level. I cannot trust my skills, skills i nevertheless possess. This causes avoidance and is caused by avoidance.

5) Does your self-confidence fluctuate? What causes this? Is it more, or less consistent than your self-esteem? Would you say one impacts the other (are they correlated)?

Yes. Mainly because of occasional alcohol/stimulant use or the occasional bout of hypomania.

More consistent. I don't know any causality between them.

6) Is low self-esteem characteristic of borderline PD, in your opinion? What about low self-confidence? How do these concepts relate to narcissistic PD?

My partner has BPD and somewhere, low self-esteem and probably self-confidence relate to the central problematic.

As for NPD, there's something similar going on. I personally relate more to NPD than BPD and the difference seems to be rationalization and emotional distance (NPD) vs messy coping and mentalization (BPD) in response to low self-esteem. I should probably use more emphatic wordings to convey the severity of conditions like these but i'm very unsure about the whole concept "self-esteem" and such. There is a lack of affirmation in people like this. It can express in many ways and splitting it up in a few distinct disorders isn't really very helpful. Splitting mental health into crude components like "self esteem" and "self confidence" is similarly counterproductive. Psychiatry must be approached with extreme skepticism, and always originating from the individual need or at least an abstract etiology rather than a check-list of symptoms.

 

[The Gopher]

1) How high is your self-esteem, both relative to others, and on an absolute scale?

I’ll keep this as short as possible. Well I have a big problem with ego and self esteem. Honestly I think everyone does. Basically what happened is my ego got so big it couldn’t keep up with how awesome I actually am. So relative to myself my self-esteem is shockingly low. Compared to others it depends, anyone with a higher self-esteem is arrogant and anyone lower is insecure. On an absolute scale it’s absolutely awesome.

2) Has it ever been lower or higher than it is now? What created the change?

It’s been consistently inconsistent. I find having low self esteem gives me high self esteem when everyone says don’t have low self esteem you’re awesome.

3) Where does self-esteem come from? How is it affected on a daily basis, or is it consistent??

An accurate appraisal of yourself plus competence. Alternatively an inaccurate appraisal of yourself.


4) What about self confidence ... how high is your self confidence? Relative to others, as well as absolutely.

I am confident I am able to do everything I am able to do. This comes from an accurate appraisal. Since I’m awesome myself confidence is high, since other people aren’t awesome it’s high relative to others. It’s absolutely high.

5) Does your self-confidence fluctuate? What causes this? Is it more, or less consistent than your self-esteem? Would you say one impacts the other (are they correlated)?

If I lose ability I lose confidence. Lack of practice causes this. In a sense they are correlated because my esteem is in some way tied to my ability.

6) Is low self-esteem characteristic of borderline PD, in your opinion? What about low self-confidence? How do these concepts relate to narcissistic PD?

Possible. No idea. I would need to research it.

 

[Seteleechete]

I try to keep my self-esteem/self-confidence as close to reality as possible, I think I am competent at analysing things because I have experience and data to support that statement, I think I am socially clumsy because it has been shown to be true and I don't try/want to improve on that front.

Funny thing this can make me seem to be both arrogant and humble at times.

Edit: Another example could be painting, I am an incompetent painter so I see myself as incompetent in that regard.

 

[EditorOne]

Self esteem seems to go up a few points after you realize you need to "rate" yourself according to your own value system, not the one out there in society generally. Letting someone else choose the yardstick for you is not a good plan, but lots of us do it without even realizing that's what's happened.

 

[Sixup]

Interesting topic. I thought about it off and on for a couple days.

I think my self esteem is higher than my overall confidence. I feel good about myself as a person and where I'm at in life. But I don't think I've ever felt totally confident about my abilities (except maybe a couple areas that I'm more confident than in others).

I think this is healthy because it causes me to listen more than I talk when in a situation where I can learn something. Also there's the feeling that I can do better, I can always do more. This is kind of bad because it stresses me out sometimes. I almost always feel like I'm not doing enough...but logically I can set standards for myself and if I meet them, try to be content with that. But I'm usually pretty hard on myself so that's something to work on.

I think having highish self esteem allows me to be humble and accept that I'm not the most competent person in the room at all times. And not feel shitty about myself because of it. Mostly.

In class lately I've observed those whose confidence is too high for their actual ability, and that is annoying. They tend to need to show everyone how smart they are. Or they don't shut up and let the other person finish their thought before interjecting their own advice/opinion. I don't know if these people have relatively high or low self esteem, but my theory is people like that would have low self esteem but high confidence--often unearned. So they think they're a badass and need to let everyone know it, and assume that because nobody is saying otherwise, they are right. When in fact most people just don't want to be bothered to get into an argument with them. I'd say this is what happens when confidence is too high relative to self esteem.

High self esteem + high confidence would probably be the end goal. How to reach that? Well for confidence I'd say it's pretty straightforward. Do stuff->get better at doing stuff->become objectively good at doing stuff->confidence rises during this process.

Self esteem might be a bit harder. Some of that might be genetic, some might be due to early childhood experience. It might be kind of like happiness. We have a baseline happiness that is really hard to change and we tend to stay around that baseline. It can be raised slowly overtime but it's a hard process that requires a lot of introspection and self awareness. Probably requires dealing with inner demons and past pain.

 

[onesteptwostep]

The entire self-esteem movement was made by liberal hippies in California. Just wanted to let that out. I think the idea behind it is nice, but it paints a stereotypical view of the nature of humanity.

 

[emmabobary]

In psychoanalysis we talk about narcissism, an impulse tied to the on instinct to live.
I wonder if we actually 'have' to 'love' ourselves, it sounds like a requisite to be normal.