SISTERS I AM DISAPOINT

[Reverse Transcriptase]

This was posted by my friend Olive. She's a female. I went to high school with her, and I haven't really talked to her in a long time. She's into the Livejournal Roleplaying scene, which is strongly anime based.

I honestly didn't totally wrap my head around everything Olive wrote... the most difficult part for me was figuring out where the line was for titillating. But Olive has good points about feminism, granted not all of her points are in a context we might understand.

Nevertheless, her points about feminism are worth re-posting.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=+1]SISTERS I AM DISAPOINT[/SIZE][/FONT]
Oh shit.


Here we go.


This post is not for discussion. It is not civil discourse. It is me, in my personal journal, very pissed off. Here is an insightful musing on female sexuality in video games and related media. She welcomes discussion and debate in that post. In this post, I do not. Haters, internalized cooterphobes and patriarchy apologists to the left. Read at your own risk.


I am tired, I am so fucking tired of women being eager to sell out their own gender.

I am tired of women letting men define what is "empowering." I am tired of happily swallowing big, sticky loads of sexual exploitation being sold to us as "girl power." I am tired of women not even noticing that while yes, they have more sexual freedom, it's still being very clearly defined and controlled by male desire and male preferences. Why are we OK with that? Why are we OK that we're so fucking starved for representation that we gotta cream our panties about what few "strong female characters" we get, when those characters were created- sometimes explicitly stated by their creators to be- to be things. Things pleasing to male sexuality. Things for mens' pleasure. Are we seriously going to take something some Japanese creeper made to help other Japanese creepers beat off as our role-model for sexual identification? [ed: she's talkin' about anime!]

How the fuck does no one notice the line between sex-positives and sexually exploitive? How the fuck do people not know that there even is one? It's like we as a gender are so fucking brainwashed that we don't notice that the model for our sexuality (like so many other aspects of our identity) is being fed to us after having been produced by (and generally intended for the consumption of) the heterosexual male. I'm not saying that female characters shouldn't be sexual beings. That's not at all what I'm arguing. But for fucks sake, can't she be a sexual being without being presented as a sexual object?

Name for me, off the top of your head, five male characters who are open about their sexuality, but never presented in a matter intended to titillate or arouse.

Now name me five women who fit that*.

Right. Moving on.

I am tired of women who jump at the opportunity to declare themselves to men to be "a fangirl, but not one of those fangirls," "a feminist, but not one of those feminists," "a lesbian/bisexual/genderqueer/any-other-god-damn-label but not something that you, oh wonderful, loving, attention-giving male might find in any way distasteful or threatening." Grow the fuck up. Rebelling against societal norms is rarely easy and never the path of least resistance. If you think men in our society are privileged (and they are!), you are going to step on some toes saying it. We don't need to be rude, we don't need to be man-haters, but we do need to have a god damn backbone and realize that some guys- even decent, cool, smart guys- will get pissed off when you call them on privilege. Some seemingly decent, cool, smart guys are going to be intimidated by girls who stand up for their beliefs. It sucks, and it hurts, and sometimes it's terrifying, but it's the brave thing to do.

I am a heterosexual feminist woman. I do not hate men. I do not hate male sexuality. I do not hate all things relating to or for the enjoyment of male sexuality. If penises stopped existing I would be really, really sad. The only reason one would naturally assume the above to be contradictory would be if one believes the oft-repeated lie that feminists are a dangerous fringe group. Being "not one of those feminists" only lends an illusion of truth to that lie. It gives men the right to pat themselves on the back and feel good about not being threatened by "a feminist," meaning that any who do intimidate or threaten them don't really matter because they are those feminists. "See?" they think, "this girl dismisses them! It's fine for me to do so as well." And why wouldn't they, when we have made it so easy for them?

Girls who do it will get heaped with attention and approval, but it is, in fact, a betrayal- an act of sexual treason. It's the coward's path. I am frustrated that I was once that way and I am frustrated when I see the behavior repeated now. Selling out one's gender does not make one edgey. What's truly radical is to stand up for one's beliefs, even when it goes against the grain and may lose one brownie points with potential friends and partner. I'm not asking girls to be dicks to boys. I'm just asking them not to be a dick to other women behind their backs in exchange for male approval.

I am so, so fucking tired of the LJRP [ed: live journal role play] scene's near-religious fervor to self-police, to be constantly on the look out to defend the status quo, to throw around labels like "internet lesbian" and "fandom feminist" as if women don't have enough fucking sources out there trying to de-legitimize our experiences and thoughts, we have to do it ourselves? Does anyone else see what kind of bullshit that is? Fucking . . . fuck. I am just tired of it.

Here are my initial explanations for this situation. Maybe I shouldn't be offering explanations. I am acting like a patriarchy apologist...

1. (The biochemist's & anthropologist's answer...)
   Human biology, neurobiology & sexuality are much more concrete and stubborn than we think they are. That being the case, this scenario where women are seen predominantly sex objects naturally arises. (This, however, is biased by the fact that we're recently coming out of an era of sexual repression, and have yet to reach sexual equilibrium.)
   
   
2. (The Machiavellian answer...)
   Pretending to be a sex object has added value. You can fool guys by doing this! Be more devious than otherwise. Use one's sexuality to get away with things. The classic example of this is Queen Elizabeth I, the Virgin Queen. (However, sexuality in the professional environment isn't always a good thing. In Russia, it is extremely common for women to have to sleep with their male boss in order to get/keep their jobs.)
   
   
3. (The Terence McKenna answer. I'm the most proud of this argument.)
   This problem of being fed labels- and accepting the labels!- is a problem that goes beyond feminism. It is a problem that is rampant in society. We let a subset of our society define what our culture is! We start caring about the culture created for us to consume- in TV shows, in celebrity magazines, in the world news. This is a culture we can only WATCH not PARTICIPATE in. True culture is the one based around ourselves, our friends, our family, our near-connections. Allowing ourselves to adopt manufactured culture opens us up to exploitation, from any angle.

 

[Ashenstar]

Ah.
Feminism...gender roles... sexual equality..... and all such related topics give me such a headache. It always seems like such a hopeless unfixable area I don't even want to poke at it. I kinda have an "it is what it is" attitude. Perhaps when I'm at an actual computer not on my phone I will come back to tackle/explore this thread.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

So, to all the readers...

What are your reactions to Olive's piece?
Do you think she has a point?
Where do you think the ideal male/female power & roles balance will be?
How much does "artificially created culture" play a role in defining gender roles?
What aspects of gender roles are intrinsic to being a man or woman?

 

[reputo]

I always find it funny when women say things about being disadvantaged in our culture. We live in a consumer culture and women are the primary consumers. In our culture as a whole women have a large sway. Of course in micro cultures like the video game community they will have less influence because it mainly consists of males.

Women being portrayed in a sexual way in things like video games is no different then men being portrayed as stupid and aloof in commercials and sitcoms.

Not to mention that women are the largest majority on the planet.

 

[ktp]

I think she is absolutely right in her frustrations. Society was created by men in order to control other men and women.

Terence McKenna's answer is right on. People are being treated as products in this consumer society and we are being sold our gender, among many other things.

I honesty don't have a solution. I'll just be myself. Fuck everyone else. Let them live and die by their ignorance, nothing I can do about it.

 

[EditorOne]

"I think she is absolutely right in her frustrations. Society was created by men in order to control other men and women. "

I'm kinda rejecting this motive-driven scenario as the reason our society exists. It's kind of hard to look around at the mess we're in and say "someone wanted it this way." Perhaps viewing society as the way we manage expectations would be more profitable.

At any rate, it seems to me I heard this rejection-of-presumed-role stuff screamed into my ear, whether I wanted to hear it or not, all the way back in 1968 while some folks burned polyester support garments in protest. The appropriate, somewhat haze-induced answer was as I recall, "So go do what you wanna do." And just for the record, it cuts many many ways. I've resented the expectations heaped on me because of my culture and my gender, and what I want to do at this point is be a pirate or a ballerina. I'll let everyone know when I make up my mind.

RT, Olive doesn't want you to explain her or anything else. This is one of those emotional outbursts. Your three analysis might be a fine INTP thing, but if you start that up with her she might just whack you up the side of the head. Maybe just ask her if she's figured out what to do about it, so she can move ahead on whatever basis she wants.

Your friend might like to be reminded that she can always opt out of the role playing. If it's making her miserable, she can walk away and get involved in some kind of thing where expectations are not so limiting or so wearying or so uncreative or so trite or whatever else is additionally likely to be pressing her outrage buttons.

 

[Cognisant]

I like it, and I agree with her, but complaining about a situation solves nothing when nobody knows what the solution is, i.e. how should the world approach femineity?

No seriously, try and answer that.

 

[Polaris]

Yes, like OreSama, I think a rant isn't going to be very productive. However, I think it is quite therapeutic to write down your frustrations, and for really young women it can be difficult to be heard, unless they shout and make a lot of noise. God bless.....

I think these sentiments are probably in most women's minds at some stage in life. Just like any frustration becomes all-consuming for anyone who feels under privileged or unjustly treated. Men or women. We know better than to voice it loudly, though, it has become more a matter of adapting and being smarter. I think the word 'Feminist' is charged with too much negative power, and it should be avoided at all costs.....

I have had similar rage and frustration, spurred on by various situations at school, work and socially. But to shout and stamp my feet is only going to come off as being irrational and over-emotional. Women can excel in any field they like, it is up to us to rise above the 'Feminist'-brand, and act smarter. There will always be someone who will challenge that, but that is just another challenge. It is a matter of identifying one's own prejudices, as well, whether it is regarding one's own gender or prejudice towards others. Holding up the mirror to oneself is quite sobering.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

"I think she is absolutely right in her frustrations. Society was created by men in order to control other men and women. "

I'm kinda rejecting this motive-driven scenario as the reason our society exists. It's kind of hard to look around at the mess we're in and say "someone wanted it this way." Perhaps viewing society as the way we manage expectations would be more profitable.

I think that it wouldn't be someone wanting it that way. It's just a million decisions by a million people to create it that way. I mean, if it happened that way.

RT, Olive doesn't want you to explain her or anything else. This is one of those emotional outbursts. Your three analysis might be a fine INTP thing, but if you start that up with her she might just whack you up the side of the head. Maybe just ask her if she's figured out what to do about it, so she can move ahead on whatever basis she wants. .

I like it, and I agree with her, but complaining about a situation solves nothing when nobody knows what the solution is, i.e. how should the world approach femininity?

No seriously, try and answer that.

Yeah, I was definitely not planning on playing philosopher with this. And honestly, I don't talk to Olive much anymore, we are just friends on livejournal...

OreSama, didn't Olive already answer "how should the world approach femininity?" ? She said that women (in real life and video games) should be treated as sexual beings, not sexual objects. That seems like the big thing.

But if that isn't an adequate answer to the approach-femininity question, then I will absolutely ask Olive.

 

[echoplex]

If penises stopped existing I would be really, really sad.

Good to know.

<<<>>>​

Overall, I think she makes some good points.

Like others, this whole issue tends to overwhelm me and it seems like there's never a "good" answer to these questions (or at least not one everyone will agree on, but I suppose that's typical).

I think, in general, neither sex truly realizes how much power they tend to wield over the other. And both sexes often use the idea of feeling powerless in some way to the other sex as a way of expressing frustration. Obviously, this is something you hear alot from women regarding men, concerning things like careers and entertainment, mainly. But, you know, you do hear this from men regarding women, too. This is often the case with the 'world' of dating and marriage. There are a bunch of men, esp. on the internet, who complain alot about how much power women have over them in such areas. This is, I think, what drives alot of the PUA stuff. It's a way of feeling powerful. And tbh, I do think women pretty much control dating/relationships, just like men pretty much control entertainment. And I don't think either are particularly aware of it.

And even though she makes good points, particularly about entertainment and role models, I'm not convinced (although I'm not a woman) that women should be concerned with loyalty towards eachother. She talks about how women sell-out feminists to gain favor with men, but what if that's what the woman wants? What if a woman likes being viewed as an object? These things aren't simple. If all women agreed on how they want to be viewed at all times, unity might make more sense. But, obviously we're dealing with individuals who don't all want the same things. People should demand respect and to be treated how they wish to be treated (within reasonability), but I think people have to recognize that an entire gender is not going to value the same treatment.

The reality is that some people don't mind being treated like an object so long as it benefits their objectives. There are clear benefits and it's something that both men and women do. The fact that the general public doesn't seem to appreciate female characters with appeal that goes beyond sex is unfortunate though, no doubt.

 

[Cognisant]

If penises stopped existing I would be really, really sad.

If my penis stopped existing, I'd feel pretty upset too.

OreSama, didn't Olive already answer "how should the world approach femininity?" ? She said that women (in real life and video games) should be treated as sexual beings, not sexual objects. That seems like the big thing.

Ah, but can you tell me what that means, where does one define the line between women being proactive/assertive as traditionally only men could be (the good), and women being as sexually flippant as some men can be (the bad). Personally I don't see a problem with men pursuing women, if anything this is a good system because it forces men to better themselves and lets women deal with them from a position of power, asymmetrical yet balanced. The problem is that various factors are making women too accepting, even to the extent where they are dependant upon a male's attentions (y'know, all that "I can't leave him because I love him" bullshit) and as a result men are losing their respect for women, because frankly they're not being given much reason to.

The objectification of women is the result, not the cause.
Unless you want to suggest women are somehow more susceptible to this superficial crap than men, after all we've got plenty of bad role models too, but you don't see every guy on the street looking like a gaudy, overly muscular, hair slicked up and bleached, twats.
Of course there's always a few -_-