Si. Where is it?

[Question Authority]

Si has always been the one function I have never understood. I get Ti, since it's the basis of my rational mind, I get Ne, since it's quite well developed in me, and I have a strong N. I understand Fe, since I get under stress a lot, and it rears it's ugly head there. But I don't know where my Si is. I've read somewhere that Si is big in memory, but since my memory is shit, I don't see it there. So I have to ask, where do INTPs show Si?

 

[Moocow]

Poor ability to retain habits and boundaries or lay down rules that we can follow consistently. Mediocre manual precision. Little attention to our own bodies and internal signals until they're too uncomfortable to bear. Poor ability to limit the scope of the context in a conversation, in our thoughts, in our decisions. Poor attention to minutia. Relatively weak ability to retain a comprehensive worldview and identity, letting important details and nuances go forgotten or glossed over by our tendency to generalize out all information into static principles.

Although, we may attempt to deal with all of these things in the challenges we aspire to, but usually only in little ways that we find rewarding enough to warrent the extra effort.

 

[Question Authority]

Those all seem to be places where Si is lacking, not where Si is present. Even Fe, the inferior function, is present sometimes, even though it is an underdeveloped form of Fe.

 

[Moocow]

Those all seem to be places where Si is lacking, not where Si is present. Even Fe, the inferior function, is present sometimes, even though it is an underdeveloped form of Fe.

Si is always present but it is deficient and those are the ways in which it is. If you want to know where it has a positive effect, it's in our ability to do any of those things at all even if not very well. Also, intellectually, we seem to use Si to refine and simplify the way we present our principles so as to make it easier to access and use them adaptively.

To clarify, an ISFJ is Si dominant and may go about remembering and routinizing a vast variety of daily tasks, but will forego analysis through Ti of the efficiency or necessity. An INTP will only be able to store a few routines by comparison having low Si, but can make up for it by trying to make them as important / efficient as possible.

 

[Question Authority]

I guess, what I'm looking for is something like this: my ENTJ Friend has Se Tertiary, like we have Si tertiary. I can tell when his Se appears, because he's very good at detecting cues in facial expression (his Se giving his Ni information), and he becomes rather sensitive to smell and taste.

So where does that type of stuff for Si show up in INTPs?

 

[Moocow]

Well, I think we may be better than most types with articulating our metacognition. We can conceptualize and analyze abstracted objects of subjective experience. I find that Ni/Se users have a lot of difficulty with that. Primary Si users have trouble finding a sufficient word to describe what's going on inside, while inferior Si users seem to overflow with various, and often inadequate wording, trying to give it their best shot. For tertiary Si it seems to be in such a place that IN*Ps can articulate complex inner processes, as we do when we analyze things like this.
I think you could compare our posts to posts by other types and see what I'm talking about. The fact that I've edited this post about 20 times now is further to my point.

 

[Dapper Dan]

Personally, I'm a creature of habit. I'm most comfortable when I'm in my routine, and I prefer not to have it altered. I often judge things by how they should be, or how I'm told they should be. I probably give more weight than I should to generalizations and stereotypes. I tend to prefer the status quo if no clearly better option presents itself.

 

[BigApplePi]

Huh? I'm having difficulty concretizing what has been said so far. That is an Si statement. If S means sensual data, Si must have to do with how we personally experience it. I'm not going outside myself and saying, "Wine tastes good. You have to taste this." I'm only sensitive to how I experience the wine. I may mull over, "What is the meaning of this wine? How can I categorize it?", but my data input is my personal experience: Si.

When I work on a theory, it either "feels" right or I just don't get it. Something is wrong. That "feeling" is Si, isn't it? When I present a theory, the language may look like Se or Te, but I hate that. It has to feel right. I must make it my own. "My own" = Si.

 

[viche]

This INTP profile talks about Si having some kind of nostalgic connotation.

 

[TriflinThomas]

First off, I'm very nostalgic in general. I get very vivid flashbacks when I listen to oldies (because my mom always had them on when I was younger). Si recalls similar situations and layers them over the current situation to help me better navigate/understand whatever situation I'm in.

 

[Dapper Dan]

I've heard Si explained as an internal database of "how things are/are supposed to be". The database is populated through either personal experience or being told by someone else.

One place I can see this in INTPs is grammar/spelling. The only way to learn these things is to be told the rules and then to do them. There's no reason, they just "are". So when the grammar Nazi INTP brain hears "Jack and Jill goes up the hill," the Si alarm goes off.

I'm sure there are many other applications, ranging from pattern recognition to stereotyping.

 

[crippli]

I've heard Si explained as an internal database of "how things are/are supposed to be". The database is populated through either personal experience or being told by someone else.

One place I can see this in INTPs is grammar/spelling. The only way to learn these things is to be told the rules and then to do them. There's no reason, they just "are". So when the grammar Nazi INTP brain hears "Jack and Jill goes up the hill," the Si alarm goes off.

I'm sure there are many other applications, ranging from pattern recognition to stereotyping.

Is Si triggered by external influences? In your example, what would be the equivalent of Se user?

 

[pjoa09]

When you feel like keeping all your used effects with you till you die.

I personally can get very routinely. I can find myself doing the same thing everyday very easily. Like when I go to the convenience store I have a set of things I buy first that I always buy then I do a little trying out.

I keep all the fascinating things I have collected and created safe.

 

[Dapper Dan]

Is Si triggered by external influences? In your example, what would be the equivalent of Se user?

I'm not sure Si is really triggered by anything. It's just something we use. As for Se, I can't really say. It's not one of my functions, and I'm not sure I understand it very well.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I think that Si = past stuff is overblown, considering Jung never ascribed memory to his psychological attitudes. Also I don't really agree with the understandings and conceptions of the Introverted MBTI types.

Nevertheless, if you're performing in the areas listed below, that is Si, in my understanding. Considering that in any IN type Si would be a weak function, the idea then is that it's something you may enjoy or detest but regardless it's a challenge.

Si:
Think of any person, place or any other thing and try to recreate it through visual art. Discover how different your experience of the thing is from others, and which features stand out to you. You can do this with music or cooking also. You don't have to be a skilled musician, chef, photographer or artist.

Rearrange your environment and optimize it to be free from disturbance, or inefficiency. Think feng shui.

Pay attention to your senses and environment more, practice concentrating on your reality and discover what the stimuli are telling you and your body.

Develop and maintain physically and daily. Work on your body, work on your garden, work on a computer, work on a car...pursue and progress.

Persevere in your environment: learn some survival/defense skills, exercise(like cardio/running), etc

Learn to be comfortable with people in your personal space, with you in theirs. Be able to affect the vibes. This extends to physical intimacy.


/my two sense(s)

How to be a better sensor?

 

[pjoa09]

I think that Si = past stuff is overblown, considering Jung never ascribed memory to his psychological attitudes. Also I don't really agree with the understandings and conceptions of the Introverted MBTI types.

Nevertheless, if you're performing in the areas listed below, that is Si, in my understanding. Considering that in any IN type Si would be a weak function, the idea then is that it's something you may enjoy or detest but regardless it's a challenge.

How to be a better sensor?

Damn man, scary, I can relate to Se and Si somehow.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Damn man, scary, I can relate to Se and Si somehow.

This would make sense, I think I mentioned a few times that I thought ISTP was likely for you.

 

[Anarkandi]

Nardis research did point out that TiNe's used Si to do logical backtracking, that is logical deduction where you follow all the traces to make sure everything works flawlessly. TiNe's Si shows itself together with the Ne too, because Ne associates from Si content alot of times. Si maps out information for you, and it's not about having "good memory" it's about having "what" kind of memory. Naruto for example is a Si, not the brightest of the bunch. Ti(Ne)'s are less prone to mysticism than Ni, as in, they will use a clear, logically followable method to find their answer, not just get an insight and go "aha" and then make that a part of their reality, TiSi needs to know what is going on and where the information came from.

Si remembers how something was done. Ni remembers not that, but maps the experience of the memory out, so the Si is better at getting the same job done routinely, whilst Ni gets a "general" experience map out which they can use to "kinda" get the job done.

 

[Anarkandi]

(TiNe) made this good vid for explaining how Si/Ne maps, and how Ni/Se maps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJG0-WHavCg&feature=player_embedded

• In the Ni drawing we can liken the cursor to Se, and the web that tails behind it is the Ni worldview being formed from Se's exploration. As you can see the Ni map is formulaic, as opposed to just a direct line, and it makes the painting using multiple curvatures which cover more area in less time. The timing and velocity of the cursor (Se) affects what kind of curves are created as well.
• In the Ne drawing, we can liken the dots to random data (Si) attained from the world. As more dots populate the screen we start to see a sort of outline form. Ne then enters in (as the lines) and "connects the dots" of data to form a more coherent picture.

 

[BigApplePi]

I think that Si = past stuff is overblown

I know what you mean. What does memory have to do with sensing? Yet remembering, if anything, seems to be a cognitive function. We can use thinking (Ti) to dig up memories, but isn't that a special way of remembering? What is daydreaming? Don't most memories just come to us, floating in and out? It's not F and not particularly N, so that leaves S. Is remembering and being aware of it an Si function? To be Si one would have to look inward. If one says, "This is a memory", isn't that Se because one is looking at it as outside of the rest of me?

More:
What is the content of memories? Could we say they are sensual of some kind? Visual (using time and space), impressions, the five senses? But if I do the senses here and now immediately, that's Se. It's external and has had no time to internalize. Confusing, eh?

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I know what you mean. What does memory have to do with sensing? Yet remembering, if anything, seems to be a cognitive function. We can use thinking (Ti) to dig up memories, but isn't that a special way of remembering? What is daydreaming? Don't most memories just come to us, floating in and out? It's not F and not particularly N, so that leaves S. Is remembering and being aware of it an Si function? To be Si one would have to look inward. If one says, "This is a memory", isn't that Se because one is looking at it as outside of the rest of me?

Yeah I do agree that you can view memory within the context of different functions, I just don't agree with the strict association of the past with Si, at least the same should be applied to Ni.

More:
What is the content of memories? Could we say they are sensual of some kind? Visual (using time and space), impressions, the five senses? But if I do the senses here and now immediately, that's Se. It's external and has had no time to internalize. Confusing, eh?

I think this makes a lot of sense actually(no pun intended). This kind of memory for Se would require rough images of objects(stereotypes) to deal with them immediately, there is no time for meditation. kind of a tangent:

Spoiler

In terms of content, what you have are holistic impressions formed only of the aspects considered most important, urgent & relevant. I think Se registers a worldview of bold & bright colors like red, positive & negative uniqueness like the punk rocker with a mohawk or the loner, attractiveness in terms of clothing or boob size etc.

Definitely sensual memories, as in relating to the five senses, but also filtering for urgency and relevance, this could be social, intellectual, business etc.