Chad
Prolific Member
I have to agree. Though I like CSI for other reasons.
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OK, it's on.
"Sherlock" TV Series
- Thread starter LPolaright
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I have to agree. Though I like CSI for other reasons.
Jennywocky
Creepy Clown Chick
I think some people like it, obviously, since I think they had three different flavors of it going at once at one point.
I've only watched it a few times (including at the gym yesterday while working out), and I'm just bored. No emotional arc. It's all plot, and it's all just procedurally handed to you. I get a lot more out of watching Cold Cases on Tru or something, if I'm going to watch procedural mysteries; at least I know they actually happened.
Chad
Prolific Member
Right. I thought Doyles own words were interesting. He wanted him (Holmes) dead, until he wanted a paycheck more.
Now I wonder what Doyles MBTI type was? For a narcissist it would be hard to take if a character you created was more famous and more desired than your self, the tail wagging the dog.
I think personally Doyles may have been more interesting than the fictional Holmes. Honestly I only know so much about him but I would love to see an attempt to type him. Also if I remember correctly Doyles based his character off of his university medical professor so if we could find out some more information about we could use his real life type to help explain what Holmes type should have been. I don't remember the name of the professor. I still thought this was interesting and I some how imagine his medical professor to be like "House".
The other writer that I would love to see typed is Egor Allen Poe.
Chad
Prolific Member
I am fascinated by forensic science and even though most of there crap is unrealistic the techniques actually exist. (most of the time not as accurately as protrude.)
The Techniques are what I am fascinated by the story is not really the point for me.
As far as story goes Sherlock is much better written and delivered. I am also fascinated about the actual application of deductive reasoning in crime solving.
Wolf18
a who
Yes, I agree. Fascinating stuff. How much of what they do doesn't actually work?
Chad
Prolific Member
Most of it works just not always the way they say it works and not nearly a accurate as they present it.
I studied Forensics in college of course I have no real world experience. The it still may be the the real world applications are even different form the theoretical ones I learned about in school. Of course I recolonize most of the terminology and techniques uses in CSI but not all of them.
The most unrealistic part of it is the police crime scene interactions. These are almost always to distinct functions and I don't know of any place the blends them like it's presented on the show.
Actually Dexter is a much more realistic set up for a crime lab. Of course not exactly.
I studied Forensics in college of course I have no real world experience. The it still may be the the real world applications are even different form the theoretical ones I learned about in school. Of course I recolonize most of the terminology and techniques uses in CSI but not all of them.
The most unrealistic part of it is the police crime scene interactions. These are almost always to distinct functions and I don't know of any place the blends them like it's presented on the show.
Actually Dexter is a much more realistic set up for a crime lab. Of course not exactly.
Wolf18
a who
Interesting. I'm currently teaching myself forensics as well as deduction, but I really wasn't sure how accurate the forensics were (was?). I tried to watch Dexter for a while, but I found him rather annoying although the premise itself was fascinating if not improbable. Also, I'm not patient enough to wait for it to come from Netflix. Another reason that I prefer Sherlock (although Dexter is good) is that I find Sherlock far less annoying than Dexter and the other American TV detectives/forensic scientists, and the deduction is very interesting. It makes the bus ride to school far less boring now that I am teaching myself, as I always forget to bring anything to read. One of my favorite things about Sherlock that Dexter doesn't have is that Dexter isn't funny at all, and that's fine. But Sherlock is the funniest when he's not trying to be at all, like after a scene in which he corrects every grammatical error that another man makes, he says, "I don't care who's sleeping with who..." I like the way it's not on purpose. If Dexter was an instructional TV show, it would be better, but it's too much drama, with the girlfriend and all that.
And, by the way, I think that Poe is either an INTJ or INFP.
SW
Chad
Prolific Member
I think the reason I like CSI, Shurlock, and Dexter are all for different reasons.
Technically, Dexter fits into the classification of Power/Control orientation type. He kills for power and Control and he has a moral code that he lives by. Therefore he is not a psychopath. The latter Dexter may also be classified as a visionary type because he has visions about talking with his dead father. Although his dead father acts more like an artificial conscience the a reason for his killing.
In this case because Dexter is a Serial killer he feel the need to seporate his conscience form his actions thus the father figure conscience. However Dexter father visions are as much apart of him as his "Dark passenger"
If you haven't figured out yet Serial killers pathology fascinate me.
Shurlock homes fascinates me do to the real life possibility applications of for the deduction practice. The story is also great.
CSI fascinates me for the use of high tech forensics.
Technically, Dexter fits into the classification of Power/Control orientation type. He kills for power and Control and he has a moral code that he lives by. Therefore he is not a psychopath. The latter Dexter may also be classified as a visionary type because he has visions about talking with his dead father. Although his dead father acts more like an artificial conscience the a reason for his killing.
In this case because Dexter is a Serial killer he feel the need to seporate his conscience form his actions thus the father figure conscience. However Dexter father visions are as much apart of him as his "Dark passenger"
If you haven't figured out yet Serial killers pathology fascinate me.
Shurlock homes fascinates me do to the real life possibility applications of for the deduction practice. The story is also great.
CSI fascinates me for the use of high tech forensics.
Wolf18
a who
I don't have American TV, so I never watched CSI.
As for Dexter, thanks for the clarification. My friend was absolutely convinced he was a sociopath. Serial killers fascinate me as well, particularly a case that the police called a serial killer but that I am sure can't be one. And yes, at least in the season 7 premiere (the only "current" episode I could find for free), Dexter definitely changes.
Sherlock fascinates me for the same reasons that it fascinates you. Deduction's really quite simple, but no one uses it! You should really give it a try, if you have not already. If people did use it, the entire world of crime would have to change.
SW
As for Dexter, thanks for the clarification. My friend was absolutely convinced he was a sociopath. Serial killers fascinate me as well, particularly a case that the police called a serial killer but that I am sure can't be one. And yes, at least in the season 7 premiere (the only "current" episode I could find for free), Dexter definitely changes.
Sherlock fascinates me for the same reasons that it fascinates you. Deduction's really quite simple, but no one uses it! You should really give it a try, if you have not already. If people did use it, the entire world of crime would have to change.
SW
Chad
Prolific Member
The Idea deduction is quite simple however the application and the thought process isn't easy to learn for most people. This is why it is not taught in criminal justice (At least not here in the U.S.). I have tried to apply aspects of deduction in my everyday thinking but its still a work in progress I am no Shurlock Holmes.
Wolf18
a who
Keep practicing. There's no reason why it can't be improved. I suppose the application can be difficult for people who do not tend to notice things in their normal lives. However, I have always had an obsession with noticing things, so it is not so hard for me. (btw you are spelling Sherlock wrong. Just saying...)
I also don't think it can be "taught" in a classroom setting, because there are so many ways to go about it, and people do it at different speeds. Also, if you don't want to learn, it's hopeless.
P.S. What do they use in CSI?
SW
scorpiomover
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That's because it's like most things that are useful. The applications are everywhere. It takes widening one's imagination quite a bit, to see how they can be applied, and it takes a constant effort of trying to do so all the time for years, before it becomes second nature to do so all the time.
Double_V
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Haven't caught up to the rest of thread yet but...
I went to school for medical tecnology, this stuff appeals to me. Even at 49 I've thought about going back to for forensics. Reminds me that according to Watson Sherlock was rather an expert in some areas of science that appealed to him, and had lacked even the most basic knowledge elsewhere. Stayed up all night, slept late...
I read Double Dexter. I thought it was very funny in the beginning of the book, but then it wore thin. And prepsosterous. Being a sloppy killer that multiple people know you are, I mean, how long can that last (without being caught)?? I say if you're going to be an axe murderer keep it to yourself. No point in coffee clutching over it, or bringing home the DNA. But that's just me...
Edit: And I think Poe is just creepy from what I can remember, as I read what was required of me and never touched it again. I do remember being convinced that that particular writer was actually nuts, not just writing for shock's sake!
Wolf18
a who
I always enjoyed Poe. I did a report on him when I was 12 and I knew I was always going to like him. I agree with you on Dexter. It was hard to believe that no one had found him out. My friend is obsessed with him, though. I started the book Darkly Dreaming Dexter and it didn't appeal to me. And, by the way, Poe really was insane. He drank himself to death.
Chad
Prolific Member
Dexter may not be fore everyone but I do enjoy it for much the same reason I enjoy the Hannibal Lector Movies.
Sorry for misspelling Sherlock my spell checker doesn't like it for some reason and keeps changing it I have to over ride it to get it to stay the same.
Deduction is very interesting and I use in only when trying to as I am not a very Sensing person and I normally completely ignore my environment. Its not that I can't do it is just not natural to me. When in classes I dealing with evidence I can be quite observant and I have the mental capabilities to make conjectures even if they are not always right (deductive thinking). However, the issue for me is that I am not always observant to my surroundings. This is why I am sure Sherlock isn't INTP, lol. The more I have thought about it the more I think that Sherlock is both ISTJ and ISTP with stages of INTP. Sharing qualities of both. ISTP is the function he seems to be acting in when using his deductive reasoning skills. ISTJ when he realizes that he missed something in his deductions and INTP in his hobby and non-socail life.
And
Poe was a genius in his own right. He didn't only write dark poems they are just the only things he could sale. Much like Doyle money played a much bigger role in his writing then he would have liked. He was also one of the first Americans to make a living (though not much) completely on his writings alone. As far as Poe death goes we don't actually know what killed him. He was an alcoholic and he may have died of cirrhosis of the liver. However, an autopsy preformed and then lost and no cause was ever made public. There are many theories to how he died but no proof on any reason or cause.
Sorry for misspelling Sherlock my spell checker doesn't like it for some reason and keeps changing it I have to over ride it to get it to stay the same.
Deduction is very interesting and I use in only when trying to as I am not a very Sensing person and I normally completely ignore my environment. Its not that I can't do it is just not natural to me. When in classes I dealing with evidence I can be quite observant and I have the mental capabilities to make conjectures even if they are not always right (deductive thinking). However, the issue for me is that I am not always observant to my surroundings. This is why I am sure Sherlock isn't INTP, lol. The more I have thought about it the more I think that Sherlock is both ISTJ and ISTP with stages of INTP. Sharing qualities of both. ISTP is the function he seems to be acting in when using his deductive reasoning skills. ISTJ when he realizes that he missed something in his deductions and INTP in his hobby and non-socail life.
And
Poe was a genius in his own right. He didn't only write dark poems they are just the only things he could sale. Much like Doyle money played a much bigger role in his writing then he would have liked. He was also one of the first Americans to make a living (though not much) completely on his writings alone. As far as Poe death goes we don't actually know what killed him. He was an alcoholic and he may have died of cirrhosis of the liver. However, an autopsy preformed and then lost and no cause was ever made public. There are many theories to how he died but no proof on any reason or cause.
Wolf18
a who
The fact that your spell-checker didn't pick up on "Shurlock" is odd, as mine did, but I guess no computer is perfect. I never read/watched Silence of the Lambs, although it is on my list.
You're right about observation. It's not an INTP "thing". I happen to be observant because I just can't help it, but I'm still an INTP. Since I was a little kid, I would edit my father's newsletters and bulletins, and my mother started paying me to edit her support letters from the ambulance corps she's affiliated with since I was 9. Since a few years ago, I was sure I was an ISTJ/P because of this, as well as because I also learn everything I can about a subject of interest, but I pretty much ignore everything else (which people seem to find funny, for some reason). However, I prefer abstract thinking to concrete thinking and am not very present-oriented, so INTP. I'd argue the same for Sherlock, for the same reasons, as well as because of John being an S-type and Sherlock's supposed to be more imaginative than him. Without John, though, I'd agree with you on ISTP.
As for Poe, I am pretty sure I read that he died from some sort of alcohol poisoning, but your details are quite interesting. I'll have to look that up some more. I also didn't know that he wrote dark literature for the money, although I did know that he was not financially well-off. Fascinating man.
SW
Chad
Prolific Member
This is my understanding of Poe. I haven't researched into it completely myself. Actually it a more current interest of mine after watching the movie the raven I was wondering what aspects about the movie were factual. I found out that much of the back story is true and that no one can count out the fact that Poe may have been poisoned because he was found delusional on a park bench before his death and the autopsy report was lost and it was never reported what killed him. Some people believe this is because of a criminal case that was never solved however no really knows any details about his last weeks of life. While Poe may have been eccentric he probably wasn't insane. He also tried to expand his writings during the last few years of his life but none of them were ever published and I believed they were lost. Some people believed that Poe was suffering form depression due to his failed writing career and therefore killed himself in the end possibly by over drinking or poison.
Wolf18
a who
I didn't see the movie, but I wanted to. Very interesting. Thank you. By the way, have you read "The Cask of Amontillado"? It's my favourite of his stories. Anyway, his death certainly sounds like a fun case to have worked on.
SW
Jennywocky
Creepy Clown Chick
That's my favorite too. "For the love of God, Montressor!" *jingle jingle*
Wolf18
a who
Yes! How about "The Masque of the Red Death"? "The red death had long devastated the country..."
scorpiomover
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I remember when Neilsen was caught. He'd been at it for years. The neighbours said that he seemed quiet, but nice. No-one twigged. There was Frizl. Plenty of serial killers, serial rapists, people who kept women in chains for years, even decades. One time the news reported a whole town had been using their women as sex slaves for decades, and no-one twigged. Paedo rings. Human trafficking rings. Seems like a lot manage to escape the police for ages.
All depends on how you look on the N/S divide. Some people say that Intuitives are smart, and Sensors are stupid. To them, Sherlock cannot be a Sensor, because he's smart.
Other people say that Intuitives and Sensors have 2 different ways of processing information. Intuitives process data by looking for a general principle, one that they recognise by looking for those principles that they already are familiar with, and only then try to figure out the details. Sensors look at the details first, and then try to deduce the general principle after having collected all the details. To them, Sherlock could be an Intuitive or a Sensor, but most likely a Sensor, because he gathers many observations, and then deduces principles from them.
Edgar Allen Poe is one of the very few Americans who were embraced by the British as if he was one of them. Poe's stories seem to appeal naturally to the British mind. When I was a kid, tons of British horror stories were shown on TV, that were based on Poe's stories. They were absolutely brilliant masterpieces of horror.
I remember watching that. Brilliant. Really scary. Also very reminiscent of the plagues that hit different areas of Europe at different times.
Wolf18
a who
Good analysis of the deduction question. I don't see why both N-types and S-types can't use it. Sensors are better at gathering the information and Intuitives are better at connecting the dots.
I didn't know they made any film from "The Masque of the Red Death." Where can I find it? Part of Poe's brilliance was that there was enough truth to his stories that the more improbable elements were believable.
SW
Jennywocky
Creepy Clown Chick
Yes, another classic - especially the last line of that story.
I actually have a large coffee table copy of Poe's book, with prints by Harry Clarke (a few color) printed back in the 1920's.
Wolf18
a who
Jennywocky
Creepy Clown Chick
Harry Clarke -- I mentioned his name in the post. He was an excellent pen/ink artist and had a great eye for textures. What is really fascinating about him is that pen and paints weren't his primary focus of his art -- he actually was a professional stained-glass creator and made some amazing windows for churches and other buildings... very exquisite stuff with rich color.
Wolf18
a who
Wow. The 2 illustrations are so different that I am surprised they were drawn by the same person. Very impressive.
Jennywocky
Creepy Clown Chick
He was quite excellent, and I love the kind of ethereal look to his faces. (The faces he draws are distinctive.) I saw his print of Faust making a deal with the devil, back when I was in high school, and it was so eerie it lingers with me still. It is too bad that he only lived to the age of 42.
Wolf18
a who
Jennywocky
Creepy Clown Chick
Wolf18
a who
Don't be so sad... that was so young back then. Poe was a Southern Gentleman before the American Civil War. I don't think the men did anything but drink back then, as they had slaves working the land for them, however, the women did not often seem to die or be drunks. Maybe it actually was safer to have been female.
SW
SW
scorpiomover
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There was a similar issue in the UK. The Brits used to be coffee-drinkers and beer-drinkers, from the 1600s on. They only got into tea much later, because women found it was a way to get their men to drink boiled water, instead of either unboiled water which was often still teeming with microbes, or alcohol.
IIRC, the big killers for women were childbirth and pneumonia, which one could catch often from simply being caught in the rain outside. Men were usually working outside when young. Even the boys of rich parents had to work very hard, and had to play a lot of sports. They were exposed to all weathers. So men who made it to adulthood had developed a significant immunity to flus and colds. Women, who were protected in the home, were often not. Pregnancy, they could do little about, without quick access to very capable surgeons.
They died young. But if you made through your first few kids, and your first few times in the rain, you could live a very long life as a female. Even today, past 40, the older you get, the more females and the less males there are of your age.
Double_V
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Several popular misconceptions in that. Not that many people had slaves, or enough slaves to not to work, and I sure wouldn't have wanted to be a woman back then. Giving birth that often left alot of dead young woman and many woman who gave birth to many children, but had few living. Also if you look a the census records it wasn't uncommon at all for people to live to be near 100.
Bad habits, risky indulgences, laziness, (and epidemics) kill people early no matter the era. People these days actually have shorter life expectancy than the older generations. 'Super size' me, and give me some 'free' benies'...
Chad
Prolific Member
Poe lived in the North. Baltimore Maryland, and Boston Massachusetts. He was a righter and didn't have slaves (he didn't have a need for them) he was not a Southern Gentleman per say. He became a drunk latter his life after he started to loss respect as a writer. I am sure he drank before this time but is drunkenness was almost defiantly tied to depression. Caused by his failure to write successfully later in his life.
Wolf18
a who
Sorry, that was actually supposed to be funny. I guess I'll give up on humour. I certainly would not describe him as a Southern Gentleman if I was being serious. But anyway, Maryland is the South (below the Mason-Dixon line). I wasn't referring to him in particular owning slaves; that was a more general statement about how many people in the South behaved.
@Double_V: I didn't know that life-expectancy was so high back then... I'm surprised. You're right about women, I was referring more to my impression that it was considered socially wrong for women to drink back then, which must have saved at least a few lives. However, I'm getting this idea from Ireland in the 1860s, where my great-grandmother hid a bottle of sherry in her bedroom so the men would not know she drank once in a while (and she lived to be 100!). I could be quite wrong about the US.
SW
Chad
Prolific Member
While Maryland is below the Mason-Dixon line the terms north in south in the US normally are based off what side of the conflict your state was on in the Civil War. This along with the reality that Maryland is very much apart of New England. An area of the country stretching by the Atlantic Ocean between Maine in Washington DC. Maryland is almost completely north of DC.
Slavery was actually league and I was the last state to outlaw slavery as it wasn't part of the south and wasn't effected by the Emancipation Proclamation. However, Poe being a city folk born and raised in Boston I am sure he was not a part of the slave trade.
Sorry if I ruined your joke I just didn't understand the reference.
Slavery was actually league and I was the last state to outlaw slavery as it wasn't part of the south and wasn't effected by the Emancipation Proclamation. However, Poe being a city folk born and raised in Boston I am sure he was not a part of the slave trade.
Sorry if I ruined your joke I just didn't understand the reference.
Wolf18
a who
Ah, interesting. I suppose that makes sense.
Yes, Poe doesn't seem like the "slaver" type. I am not surprised.
Bt the way, no apology necessary. I am used to my jokes being taken seriously, or their not being funny at all. I am not good at them.
You said that you were the last state to outlaw slavery. You mean Maine, I assume. That's quite interesting, as I suppose you didn't really need to outlaw slavery. Is Maine's main industry lumber/syrup? Just wondering, as that would make sense if they didn't have slaves.
SW
Chad
Prolific Member
Maryland was the last state to outlaw slavery. Yes, slavery was present in Maryland until November 1, 1864, A year after the Emancipation Proclamation. I was think it was much later than that. It was the last state to change the its slavery after all.
As for as I know Slavery was never allowed in the state of Maine.
As for as I know Slavery was never allowed in the state of Maine.
Wolf18
a who
I'm quite surprised, I suppose I would've expected a state like Alabama or Texas to be last, although Texas had its own complications.
SW