Self-promotion

[Dormouse]

Be it fundraising, asking for reference letters, or even shamelessly brown-nosing, I simply hate self-promotion.

It annoys me in others, and if I try it myself I either fail miserably or just feel like an idiot.

Being in my last year of highschool, I've begun applying for various enrichment programs and colleges and such things. They may require things like interviews, long lists of accomplishments and essays about how awesome a person I am.

Frankly I'm uncomfortable.

Dishonesty inspires guilt, but I get the feeling that truthfulness is not going to get me anywhere.

I have no problem with bending the truth, but I usually use that to get out of trouble...
I don't like taking extra credit for stuff.

I generally attribute this dislike of self-promotion to my shyness/introversion.

Anyways, my questions are:

How much do you self-promote?

Or, do you dislike it? What do you think of chronic braggarts?

If you avoid doing it, why?

Is self-promoting the same thing as bragging? Is it a necessary evil in todays competitive world?

Discuss.

 

[Adymus]

I can't fucking stand self-promotion.
But the biggest problem is I am a DJ that needs to get gigs, and a Producer/composer that wants work, so I have to try and be "Smoogy" even though I really couldn't even if I tried.
First of all, I don't like bragging about myself, and I am equally annoyed with others who do it to me. Luckily I haven't really needed to, because I hang around people who do a lot of the bragging about my work for me to the people who count. If I don't have this luxury however I try to work my accomplishments into the conversation, without just blurting them out.

Secondly, I'm an introvert, with an Fe inferior to boot. That means I can't do the ol' social dance where you say some small talk shit before getting to what you are really interested in. I can't help but just get to the point with them, small talk just feels gross.


Is self-promoting the same thing as bragging? Is it a necessary evil in todays competitive world?

Sort of, but not necessarily. Bragging is bringing up a bunch of shit about yourself at somewhat inappropriate times just to get people to regard you highly. I think if you can just casually promote yourself as a part of a conversation you may not feel like a total douche.
But it is definitely a necessary evil, it's just something you need to get over will until your work can speak for itself.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

I've been interviewing a lot... so yeah... self-promotion. It helps that I am actually proud of the work I've done, which makes it a lot easier to sell myself.

 

[Darby]

I'm also in my senior year of high school, and also don't feel like the truth is going to get my anywhere. the self promotion thing was a big deal when my mom wanted me to get a job and she called it "selling yourself" I now have a job, but it was through doing a good job somewhere else, and people noticed. I am however joining about as many clubs and doing as many extra-curricular activities as I can, which I sometimes see as self promotion since I wouldn't have started doing it if I didn't feel I needed to, but it is opening up doors that I wasn't expecting to come across, and I am now doing it more for myself than to get into a good school.

I understand your point though, and I see it as being similar to the "why do people lie to start relationships" thread(I'd link it if I knew how)

 

[Dormouse]

^ About joining extra-curricular stuff, I too find that I've begun doing it for the sole purpose of beefing up my resumés/applications. It's a pain because my heart is never really in it, and half the time it stresses me out more than anything. Of course, part of the problem is that there aren't any activities I'm interested in offered at my school...

 

[ckm]

I agree with just about everything in this thread so far. However I feel a conflict too. I never want to promote myself but I often notice myself longing for appreciation. Once I get that appreciation I feel that it's misplaced though. It's like... I want to be seen, desperately, but it scares the crap out of me and I kind of don't want it. I don't know.

They say Tis are good at finding the perfect words for a given situation. Not here anyway.

 

[EditorOne]

If you need people to know what you can do, you need to tell them. It helps to say, right up top in a resume or cover letter, that you are not comfortable pushing yourself forward and standing in your own spotlight, but understand that it is necessary in order to match your competencies and accomplishments with the job, with the grant project, with a loan. But say right in the first paragraph that while your preference is to let your abilities speak for themselves, you understand that circumstances don't allow you an opportunity to do that and so must grasp the nettle of describing yourself in self-serving terms.

It's not all bad. You get to use your INTP skills by thinking through what is relevant and presenting those things in the appropriate context for what you are doing.

Do not ignore the value of going to people and asking for help in learning how to do this, preferably people higher up whatever totem pole you find yourself forced to tackle. That is, if you want to get into media, ask a publisher or CEO or editor for advice on how to present yourself. You will strike out four times out of five; the fifth will not only help, but will refer you to another person, who will refer you to another person, and before you know it you've got the job you wanted or whatever it is.

I tried a bunch of straight resumes when I was desperate to get away from a 20-year employer. No bites. The simplest and most fun thing imaginable: I gave up on the straight resume and created a newsletter about myself, using the then-top-of-the-line QuarkXPress to do it. "Bill Watson finally toots his own horn" was the headline, with a silhouette of a cartoon brass band marching by. Laid out vocational accomplishments like awards for writing and reporting, plus examples of innovation and autonomy (that self-starter thing is another way to look at what most of us INTPs call "I'd rather do it myself", you just look at it from the side instead of straight ahead), a list of anecdotes on people I helped to get better at their job or in a better-suited job, etc. Had their photos and phone numbers and whatnot, kind of like instant references. All the usual biographical information got worked in seamlessly. Went out one time and that was all it took, I had a new job and had escaped an outfit that had no new things for me to try unless I climbed up someone else's back with spikes and knives. I like to do that even less than I like to tout myself, so it worked out.

Here's how to sort it out a bit more so you can slice it thin and easy:

What did you make happen?

What did you help happen?

What idea did you have that you not only made happen but got other people to support?

What, even though a teenager, have you already figured out about yourself? A realistic self-appraisal identifying strengths like the ability to analyze and weaknesses you know you have to overpower like getting easily bored is just what people want to hear for admissions to programs and schools. If you're going after money, cite frugality and resourcefulness and integrity/dependability, right down to admitting you're going to have to put off an indulgence or two, whatever it might be, while you're paying off the loan you want or whatever.

Use your INTP flexibility and adaptiveness and brain. Trust your intuition. :-) Then let an ESFJ friend read it through for genuine faux-pas and inadvertently arrogant phrasing, and you should be good to go.

Hope it helps. Keep us posted on how it all works out.

 

[Waterstiller]

EditorOne: I swear.. your posts have helped me over so many hurdles.

 

[EditorOne]

Good! I'm useful!

 

[Döden]

Oh my god I HATE self promotion. In written form anyway. Writing application letters to colleges is so awkward because I don't want to self-promote so I default to an extremely dry and overly-academic style that doesn't show my "personality."

It's quite funny, actually. A teacher of mine (that didn't know me very well) said I was far too modest and shy, and that I needed to be more confident in my abilities.
I'm actually quite arrogant about my abilities in that particular subject but just toned it down so I wouldn't look like an asshole in that class.

 

[Scourgexlvii]

I HATE it... It's like being proud of arrogance...

 

[Da Blob]

I understand the hesitancy underlying self-promotion. I mean who wants to come off as a used car sales person or one of those loud mouths that do commercials? The thing is that as an INTP you most likely had had some good ideas that have been worth promoting. One can can attention to quality without calling attention to one's self.

In this case asking others for input is a Good idea. I found that I had done a few things that I did not think much of - that others thought was outstanding work. Do not be afraid of asking for letters of recommendation or reference. i was told that i admitted into a very competitive college because of a couple of sterling letters of recommendation a couple of my teachers wrote on my behalf. (looking back I wish i had asked to see those letters). It is like Adymus said if you can get others to promote you or your work, the battle need not be fought - personally...

 

[bluesquid]

I think there is an acceptable spot on the spectrum of self promotion. i think as I aged, I was more natural and didnt have to actively self promote. I express my ideas strongly, and was rewarded based on them.

There is sincere approbation tho. To oneself, and others. 50% of the boasting or ass kissing is transparent to some, so best to be spot on.

But thats what INTP's are. right? At least we try like hell.

 

[warryer]

I think there is an acceptable spot on the spectrum of self promotion. i think as I aged, I was more natural and didnt have to actively self promote. I express my ideas strongly, and was rewarded based on them.

There is sincere approbation tho. To oneself, and others. 50% of the boasting or ass kissing is transparent to some, so best to be spot on.

But thats what INTP's are. right? At least we try like hell.

Well said. Exactly what I was going to say.

I always wonder why people feel the need to lie, kiss ass and all that rigmarole (i love that word). Isn't it more important to see whether you succeed and not the picture you painted?

The answer that I've come to: is that the pressures of society is too great for some. Each person has their own strengths and weaknesses. Yet society tells us that we arent allowed to be weak. To be weak means you are unfit. (The more and more I think about it the more I realize that it all comes down to who gets the "best" mates.)

I believe that we as INTPs have a strength of character and that trumps all else.

 

[chloé]

How much do you self-promote?

I don't self-promote for attention or for pointless competition. If I really want something and the best way to obtain it involves self-promotion, I'll do it.


Or, do you dislike it? What do you think of chronic braggarts?

I don't dislike it itself. Chronic braggarts often seem to me to have a lot of underlying psychological discomfort, an imbalanced viewpoint, lack of big-picture thinking, etc.


If you avoid doing it, why?

It's unnecessary stress, causes interpersonal difficulties, is often fruitless. I do it only where I see an advantage in it.


Is self-promoting the same thing as bragging? Is it a necessary evil in todays competitive world?

By definition, it is not the same thing as bragging. However, pathological self-promoters make it into a bragging game. It's a necessary evil in the sense that many people do it, and in order to assert your place you may have to engage in it too. Depending on your choice of career, self-promoting may not be such a requirement. I also think that if you surround yourself with intelligent people, you won't encounter much shameless self-promotion.