Scifi Illusion

[The Void]

then you should be get out of your nihilistic circle

On the contrary, it is the nihilism that helped me transcend beyond these shits of life.

 

[TimeAsylums]

On the contrary, it is the nihilism that helped me transcend beyond these shits of life.

seems like a leap from one shit to another

You transcended from a huge pile of shit to...a...less smelly pile of shit

 

[Ribald]

I want to, eat Manchurian Fried Rice, but too lazy to stand up and buy it.
This discontentment makes me keep going.
When I become fully content, and the void in me gets filled, that is when the real void occurs in me.

That is simple. You just think you want things that you don't actually want. You get them and you experience disappointment or buyer's remorse or whatever. Happens to a lot of people. Culture is set up in this way such that there is all this consumeristic build-up to obtaining certain things. Seeing the iPhone commercials, you'd think getting one was going to be the greatest thing ever. You get it, and yeah it is a little better than your last phone, but your life is still pretty much what it was before. Just an example--it can be applied to many areas and things.

I used to think I wanted a lot of things that were all just hypothetical, really. Didn't think I would be happy unless I got the right girlfriend, job, house, family, etc. Even when I had these things from time to time, though, they didn't make me happy. It's that same notion of the void getting filled and then the real void manifesting.

We seem pretty similar, ultimately, which kinda makes sense because we are both INTPs. I like to sit around and think and read and write about what I think and read.When I am doing those things, there is no void. The appearance of any void is just an illusion created by the fact that you aren't doing what you like doing, and thus are not lost in something. Back when I felt pressured to have a social life and go to bars on weekends and stuff, I felt this void, and I philosophized about it, and I wondered how I could fill it, etc. Turned out that trying to fill it kept on creating it.

None of that is really necessary. You're just putting your boredom in grandiose terms. It's not a void, you're just bored. If you were doing something you enjoyed, you wouldn't give a fuck. If a "real void" occurs when you are "fully content", then you aren't fully content.

 

[Hawkeye]

seems like a leap from one shit to another

You transcended from a huge pile of shit to...a...less smelly pile of shit

Yeah, Nihilism is good to dip into like one of those really cold skinny dipping pools. It wakes you up and refreshes you, but stay in there too long and you're gonna die missing out on some other interesting stuff.

 

[The Void]

seems like a leap from one shit to another

You transcended from a huge pile of shit to...a...less smelly pile of shit

One of my past conclusions

As you can see I was outside internet for some days. I spent my time in seclusion, observing the patterns of universe, and in continuous deep thought for 1.5 days and then I gained enlightenment. Or more like shitlightenment.
All is shit!
Mass is a form of energy. Also, energy is a form of mass. They are all the same thing.
Mass energy all is conserved. Everything in the cosmos is continuously changing form.
If you look beyond impermanence you will find the constancy. Everything is shit.
Everything is a different form of shit.
Shit is a form of mass.
Energy is a form of mass.
It is all shit.
Cause and effect. Causality is everything.
Effect is nothing but the cause in different form. How? You have to find that out yourselves.
Thus if there is a God, God is also a form of shit. Whether is God, or Dog, all is the same shit in different forms.
We intake foods from nature. We shit them out. The shit goes back to nature. Nature gives birth to food. This is shit cycle.
All is just shit but in different forms.
ALL IS SHIT. (Proved)

 

[TimeAsylums]

OP, I'm sorry for deviating, but not intentionally.

One of my past conclusions

all is shit

I think you missed the point though.

All ends up as shit, after it goes through the processes,

but it begins as something else.

It's all about the experience and processes, mane.

Step #10 might = shit, but what about steps #1-9?

Why not enjoy them? Even if in spite of #10


You grow old and die, yes, but why not enjoy all that comes before even if in spite of the end?

 

[The Void]

That is simple. You just think you want things that you don't actually want. You get them and you experience disappointment or buyer's remorse or whatever.

Not remorse, the thing is done, the desire is completed, and then the real void appears,
it also happens, to things like collecting free(pirated) games...since it is ahemm.. free there is no possibility of remorse, .....it is just when I collect all the games I need,
I just lose the previous motivation, the fire, the life, I am just saying what happens to me, it is subjective, I am not trying to generalize,

but that was all past anyway, I am well beyond all that.

 

[Ribald]

I am not really sure that boredom can be rooted out like that.

Regardless of everything else you wrote, rooting out boredom really isn't that hard. You can easily do it by smoking some weed. In doing that, you are in a sense practicing neuroscience. We don't need to make things more complicated than they are, ya know.

Obviously smoking weed isn't perfect and there are better solutions now and on the horizon. But it does give some hint as to how easy it actually is to eliminate boredom.

 

[The Void]

OP, I'm sorry for deviating, but not intentionally.



I think you missed the point though.

All ends up as shit, after it goes through the processes,

but it begins as something else.

It's all about the experience and processes, mane.

Step #10 might = shit, but what about steps #1-9?

Why not enjoy them? Even if in spite of #10


You grow old and die, yes, but why not enjoy all that comes before even if in spite of the end?

But who says I dont enjoy?
Nihilism is heavily misunderstood here.
There are different forms of nihilism.
Like there was this another nihilist in another forum who seem to have enjoyed a lot and still enjoying plently,
nihilism is no restriction,
instead it is what motivated me to enjoy, to forget all the limitating false belief systems, and just do what I want.....

 

[TimeAsylums]

But who says I dont enjoy?

You are correct. I have (perhaps falsely) assumed that your seemingly melancholic/suicidal rants was the equivalent of not enjoying, but that is not necessarily true.

 

[Hawkeye]

Labotomies eradicate boredom as far as we know.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Labotomies eradicate boredom as far as we know.

did you know there was a correlation with the more ice cream a woman eats the higher chance she has of being raped

http://gynomite.wordpress.com/2011/11/01/ice-cream-rape/

//lol but really,

I liked Shutter Island

 

[The Void]

Regardless of everything else you wrote, rooting out boredom really isn't that hard. You can easily do it by smoking some weed. In doing that, you are in a sense practicing neuroscience. We don't need to make things more complicated than they are, ya know.

Obviously smoking weed isn't perfect and there are better solutions now and on the horizon. But it does give some hint as to how easy it actually is to eliminate boredom.

No No, it is different, it is not rooting out boredom, but that is just distracting the mind under simulation,
like even spamming the forum is enough to kick out boredom for me,
but that doesnt mean boredom is dead,

you dont eliminate it but simulate\entertain the mind, so that it dont get the chance to be bored.

What you are saying is not coherent with the base of the topic at hand, or the point I was trying to imply.

Boredom is combated using variation.
Now if humans gain some easy access to super blissful state,

then pleasure will get so easy to access, and they will get so much easy control over it, that the gettting-used-to-it function of the mind, will deteriorate the speciality of that state, and the state will lose its gravity,

Even while feeling all orgasmic pleasure, the mind may interpret it as nothing special,

mere pleasure and pain is nothing, it all depends on how the mind interprets it,
like sometimes, I can make the mind interpret pain as pleasure,
.
.
but to solve that thing something have to be done to the getting-used-to-it function of the mind (this function is the primary cause of boredom) but again eliminating this function can cause adverse side effects.

There is a possibility that it may work out (what you say), the very effect of eternal bliss may root out boredom forever, but I am just sketical a bit, but in the end I dont care.... because I have no business with all that,


oh there is another solution: the neuroscientists can scan my transcended brain, and find out what is special in me, and make everyone like me, beyond suffering and pleasure muhahahahah.

 

[The Void]

You are correct. I have (perhaps falsely) assumed that your seemingly melancholic/suicidal rants was the equivalent of not enjoying, but that is not necessarily true.

suicidal?
It is just cultural bias, that makes people think, that the type of words, that I speak implies I being melancholic and suicidal,
but I am a bit strange, and the type of theories that make people suicidal, and depressed makes me uplifted more.
I am just upside down.
Cant you see how many jokes and stuffs I post?
I am not sucidal, but just ready to die anytime.... because I am done with meaningless fears and repulsions from death.
I live life completely (as much as I want, not like some meditators always focusing in present noticing all details, that is just meaningless torture...overstressing for happiness ) and when death will come, I will embrace it (unless my persona changes again ( who can tell?))
If I wanted to suffer I would have locked myself in seculation and started self torturing, not spam around forums like this...

 

[Latte]

I am not really sure that boredom can be rooted out like that. I guess it is related to memory.
The more memory and the more experience I have with something, the more boring it is.
At first it is all interesting, and then the mind, gets too used to it.

As you are now, yes.

But can boredom be rooted out without altering memories?
When you master a game get some 300 damage in a rpg game and kill monsters at one hit, there remains no purpose to it anymore, the journey is complete,
the moment spent seeking it is gone, will the mind, really can play on the game without boredom after that, which such skill is achieved, the fun is in the journey, in improving the skill,

As most are now, yes. But keep in mind, people already have vastly different thresholds for when or what they can actually get bored of. I know people who can watch a movie 20 times over a 3 year timespan and be excited every time and I can't watch any movie more than once every 12 or so years without it being shitty boring. There are massive variables just within the current systems we currently utilize. This speaks a lot for the potential that lies in the possibility of changing them or influencing them.

rooting out boredom may not be so simple, (while keeping humans still as normal humans),
All these kinda sound too high expectations, if it works it works, but I really cant help but doubt it, lots of things can be related to lots of things, eliminitating one bad thing may eliminate one important thing too, it is not all so black and white after all....

That's a very valid point. Unintended consequences (bugs) from design flaws can occur in some designs. We already see unintended wider-than-ideal consequences from the crude methods used in pharmacology. Seeing it as being highly unlikely that it is at all possible to modify things in ways that don't have negative side effects seems very pessimistic though.

It necessitates not only that the current systems necessary for the kinds of wellbeing we currently enjoy as humans are intertwined in an irreducible manner with systems necessary for the kinds of suffering we experience (in this case boredom and... excitement or stimulation or something), but that one can't build a new system that in the end achieves largely the same experiences but won't yield the suffering ones automatically in any situation.

Also, we might invent cognitive systems that can qualitatively provide much more amazing qualia in "feeling" than what any human has ever experienced before, without the systems working in a way from which whip is co-emergent with carrot.

Being in a pleasure state 24/7 will lose its value, you never live feeling like it is all so special 24/7, even buddha messes up, the mind will get accustomed to it, evolution will do it,

The mind gets accustomed to it in a manner. The manner can be changed or designed out in the next version.

It can be analyzed from history,

human society never really becomes truly perfect,

with solutions to one problem even more problems appeared, medicine improving, health decreasing, humans getting too dependant, but science, comes up with solutions, but again worse problems arise, it is an eternal cycle, if what you say works out then great, but I am not sure....

Now people may live in more comfort and all, but now even sillier things depresses people,
now people get even more easily depressed,

but old days, were not so golden either, slaves, wars, bla bla bla,

something progresses, something congresses,

It's not necessarily an eternal cycle. Inductive reasoning relying on occurences from a slice of time where humans could not directly intervene in their own change is not reliable when it comes to a topic that transcends the relatively static element of human nature and physiology.

One could argue that human nature will steer how human nature will change to. And it will and it has. But the potential for changes that are on the horizon that we now discuss are the sort that can quickly lead to situations so alien from the starting point that it doesn't even apply anymore. Evolutionary ancestors far back had very different natures to us, and through very small incremental steps we arose as something very different from that. The steps to come through new technique can be galaxies to those grains of sand.

 

[The Void]

Everyone gets me wrong, for cultural biases,
it is not their fault though, I am just too abnormal, too twisted,
it dont fit with conventional human image....
There aint even a MBTI to type me,

 

[The Void]

As you are now, yes.


As most are now, yes. But keep in mind, people already have vastly different thresholds for when or what they can actually get bored of. I know people who can watch a movie 20 times over a 3 year timespan and be excited every time and I can't watch any movie more than once every 12 or so years without it being shitty boring. There are massive variables just within the current systems we currently utilize. This speaks a lot for the potential that lies in the possibility of changing them or influencing them.



That's a very valid point. Unintended consequences (bugs) from design flaws can occur in some designs. We already see unintended wider-than-ideal consequences from the crude methods used in pharmacology. Seeing it as being highly unlikely that it is at all possible to modify things in ways that don't have negative side effects seems very pessimistic though.

It necessitates not only that the current systems necessary for the kinds of wellbeing we currently enjoy as humans are intertwined in an irreducible manner with systems necessary for the kinds of suffering we experience (in this case boredom and... excitement or stimulation or something), but that one can't build a new system that in the end achieves largely the same experiences but won't yield the suffering ones automatically in any situation.

Also, we might invent cognitive systems that can qualitatively provide much more amazing qualia in "feeling" than what any human has ever experienced before, without the systems working in a way from which whip is co-emergent with carrot.


The mind gets accustomed to it in a manner. The manner can be changed or designed out in the next version.



It's not necessarily an eternal cycle. Inductive reasoning relying on occurences from a slice of time where humans could not directly intervene in their own change is not reliable when it comes to a topic that transcends the relatively static element of human nature and physiology.

One could argue that human nature will steer how human nature will change to. And it will and it has. But the potential for changes that are on the horizon that we now discuss are the sort that can quickly lead to situations so alien from the starting point that it doesn't even apply anymore. Evolutionary ancestors far back had very different natures to us, and through very small incremental steps we arose as something very different from that. The steps to come through new technique can be galaxies to those grains of sand.

Yes I agree with you on all the points.
In the last part, I am not saying that humans will mess up, I am just saying it can be a possibility not necessarily a certainty,
I just like the term eternal cycle, I just make use of it everywhere without thinking much, just to dramatize stuff.

 

[Ribald]

Labotomies eradicate boredom as far as we know.

Is that seriously your argument? What are you implying?

 

[TimeAsylums]

Labotomies eradicate boredom as far as we know

Is that seriously your argument? What are you implying?

If you don't get this, he might destroy you

imo if you don't get it, you deserve it

 

[Ribald]

No No, it is different, it is not rooting out boredom, but that is just distracting the mind under simulation,
like even spamming the forum is enough to kick out boredom for me,
but that doesnt mean boredom is dead,

Distraction is a word used for occasions when something important is supposedly going on, but your mind is elsewhere. That doesn't seem to apply here.

In other words, if your mind is being stimulated so it isn't bored, then that IS rooting out boredom. You seem to imply some alternative state where the mind is not stimulated but also not bored. You should know better. According to your silly Buddhists, form is emptiness and emptiness is form. In other words, there is no emptiness because it is always filled, there is always stimulation of some sort. If you are doing something that doesn't bore you, you aren't bored.

you dont eliminate it but simulate\entertain the mind, so that it dont get the chance to be bored.

What you are saying is not coherent with the base of the topic at hand, or the point I was trying to imply.

Boredom is combated using variation.
Now if humans gain some easy access to super blissful state,

then pleasure will get so easy to access, and they will get so much easy control over it, that the gettting-used-to-it function of the mind, will deteriorate the speciality of that state, and the state will lose its gravity,

Even while feeling all orgasmic pleasure, the mind may interpret it as nothing special,

mere pleasure and pain is nothing, it all depends on how the mind interprets it,
like sometimes, I can make the mind interpret pain as pleasure,
.
.
but to solve that thing something have to be done to the getting-used-to-it function of the mind (this function is the primary cause of boredom) but again eliminating this function can cause adverse side effects.

There is a possibility that it may work out (what you say), the very effect of eternal bliss may root out boredom forever, but I am just sketical a bit, but in the end I dont care.... because I have no business with all that,


oh there is another solution: the neuroscientists can scan my transcended brain, and find out what is special in me, and make everyone like me, beyond suffering and pleasure muhahahahah.

If necessary it may be possible to retain the functional analogs of pain, suffering, boredom but without the unpleasant experience. After all, pain does serve a function sometimes. But not all the time.

 

[Latte]

Yes I agree with you on all the points.
In the last part, I am not saying that humans will mess up, I am just saying it can be a possibility not necessarily a certainty,
I just like the term eternal cycle, I just make use of it everywhere without thinking much, just to dramatize stuff.

: )

This thread is now officially llamatized. \: D/

 

[The Void]

Distraction is a word used for occasions when something important is supposedly going on, but your mind is elsewhere. That doesn't seem to apply here.

In other words, if your mind is being stimulated so it isn't bored, then that IS rooting out boredom. You seem to imply some alternative state where the mind is not stimulated but also not bored. You should know better. According to your silly Buddhists, form is emptiness and emptiness is form. In other words, there is no emptiness because it is always filled, there is always stimulation of some sort. If you are doing something that doesn't bore you, you aren't bored.

If necessary it may be possible to retain the functional analogs of pain, suffering, boredom but without the unpleasant experience. After all, pain does serve a function sometimes. But not all the time.

Yes I know about the distraction term, I just couldnt find a better term to say what I meant,
I will use an analogy here,
there is a devil standing infront of you,
you dont want see that ugly face, you just went to the other room to play video game,
but that doesnt mean the devil is killed, he is still standing there,
and again when your game is played and you will return back, the devil will be standing for you,

bad analogy but I guess the point is got accross.

If necessary it may be possible to retain the functional analogs of pain, suffering, boredom but without the unpleasant experience. After all, pain does serve a function sometimes. But not all the time.

Yes yes yes!

It is not may be,
it is perfectly possible, I am the evidence of it to myself, thats why I said that neuroscientists should make me the lab rat and cure the world from my specially wired brain muhahhahahahah!

 

[Ribald]

Yes I know about the distraction term, I just couldnt find a better term to say what I meant,
I will use an analogy here,
there is a devil standing infront of you,
you dont want see that ugly face, you just went to the other room to play video game,
but that doesnt mean the devil is killed, he is still standing there,
and again when your game is played and you will return back, the devil will be standing for you,

bad analogy but I guess the point is got accross.

That goes along with the first thing I said - if you say 'distraction' you imply that there is some other ominous thing going on you are ignoring.

My question is, what thing is that?

 

[The Void]

That goes along with the first thing I said - if you say 'distraction' you imply that there is some other ominous thing going on you are ignoring.

My question is, what thing is that?

boredom,
What I mean, when we simulate ourselves, the boredom disappears from the picture, or we are too absorbed in the simulation, boredom dont occurs,
but when the simulation occurs the boredom is there remaining,
it had been waiting all along.
So it is not killed permanently, otherwise it would not reappear again and again.
The only good possibility may be some genetic modification....(or special mental training).....(or varying simulations)

But in the end, what ever it is, I still think it will be possible to refine people minds far better than how it is now through neuroscientific means...

 

[Ribald]

boredom,
What I mean, when we simulate ourselves, the boredom disappears from the picture, or we are too absorbed in the simulation, boredom dont occurs,
but when the simulation occurs the boredom is there remaining,
it had been waiting all along.
So it is not killed permanently, otherwise it would not reappear again and again.
The only good possibility may be some genetic modification....(or special mental training).....(or varying simulations)

But in the end, what ever it is, I still think it will be possible to refine people minds far better than how it is now through neuroscientific means...

I don't believe that. When boredom is gone, it is gone. When it does occur, it is just your brain's way of saying, 'hey, find something better to do.'

What is so important to you about boredom that you feel the need to face it? What is so bad about stimulation?

I remember a Zen monk speaking once, and she said she was on an airplane and she looked around her and everyone was listening to headphones or reading, and she noted that people need to be constantly "distracted" these days as if it was a bad thing people were doing this. Personally I think she just thought she was better than everyone else. What is her alternative? Everyone just sitting there looking blankly in silence? I don't see why I shouldn't listen to some good music or read an interesting book when I'm otherwise bored on a plane.

 

[The Void]

I don't believe that. When boredom is gone, it is gone. When it does occur, it is just your brain's way of saying, 'hey, find something better to do.'

What is so important to you about boredom that you feel the need to face it? What is so bad about stimulation?

No no no, I didnt mean that boredom is something to be faced,
or simulation is bad,
how can you even face something like boredom even facng boredom can become a simulation in itself which can be called as a distraction from boredom,
it is mere play of words,

Thats why i didnt want to use the word 'distraction' because it appears to be negative,..... and I already mentioned it, and I agreed that distraction was not the right word, you are over associating my lines, with the eastern cliches...

this discusion had gone out of the track,

you said boredom can be rooted out,

rooted out... implies a permanence, like rooting out a weed, being just done with it,

but if boredom reappears it was GONE but not GONE for permanence,

I am not debating about ethics if boredom needs to be kept or what, stop associating these good and bad stuffs with my statements, I am a psychopath, and good and bad makes no sense to me,

Right now it is just limitation of languages that is keeping on going this discussion, it is far out of the original point, and now it has turned to a mere twisting of words,

we are talking about two different subjects right now, which appears to be same,

so I guess there is not anymore point to make this keep on going.

I agree my language can be a bit of the Eastern style but that does not necessarily mean that it has all these associations with it.

I completely agree with you on these distraction things, infact I thought out exactly same type of stuffs just some couple of months ago,

I was going a bit too into these stuffs, but now all these eastern styles are too mainstream and cliche type and too many unprovable big statements, it is all corrupted, (or was it ever pure? I dont care,)

 

[Hawkeye]

Ribald, you appear to be treating each boredom scenario as an unrelated entity that is eradicated by stimuli. Boredom is boredom.

If I am bored and do something to counter it, the boredom subsides for a while; however, after some time, I will start to get bored with the new activity and seek out something newer to further subside the boredom.

How have I eradicated boredom if it comes back, or even has the potential to come back? Simply put: I haven't.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOKl04TWVsU

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

Dude... you just posted 6 hours of video for me to watch. I have other things to do.. as much as I'd love to just answer everyone's arguments with "just read The Singularity Is Near" I know that I have to take everything I have learned and process it for you all into a few paragraphs so you can actually do something with it.

Give me something meant for me specifically, from you specifically.

Well, you could have at least addressed the quotes i delivered.
Sometimes you have to decide what you want to watch,
your favourite television shows and spectacular movies,
or something that may contain more relevant information about the world you really live in.
Choice is yours.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOKl04TWVsU
well, what can we learn from this?

 

[Ribald]

You tell me. I don't understand your objection to summarizing the video in your own words. I literally have hundreds of videos in my queue to watch and I can't watch them all so I need to evaluate which ones seem the most promising. So far I don't find a compelling case for watching yours.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

Isn't the fact that i oppose your position enough to be curious about why?

 

[Ribald]

Isn't the fact that i oppose your position enough to be curious about why?

No. Who do you think you are? Lol. In fact, your apparent inability to state them yourself makes me a lot less curious about your position, whatever it is.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

No. Who do you think you are? Lol. In fact, your apparent inability to state them yourself makes me a lot less curious about your position, whatever it is.

Let ignorance dwell where ignorance is due then...

 

[Ribald]

Let ignorance dwell where ignorance is due then...

The fuck? All I want and have been asking for all along is for you yourself to tell me what your point is without posting hours' worth of video for me to watch. If you finally decide to write something I'll read it.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

The novice will decide him/her-self to focus their attention at any given topic, if they truly are dedicated to understand.

 

[Ribald]

The novice will decide him/her-self to focus their attention at any given topic, if they truly are dedicated to understand.

Definitely an odd thing for you to say, considering you posted the same vid in this topic 3 times and practically begged me to watch it. Still waiting.

 

[doncarlzone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOKl04TWVsU
well, what can we learn from this?

Are you kidding? You think people are not aware of the fact that we are living in a consumption based society? Come on Salmoneus... And yes I have watched that movie, it's fine if you're 12 or completely uneducated.

What's next? You're going to link the Zeitgeist movies? We are sheep and you're the only one who gets it because you're so open minded that you're willing to believe practically anything you watch on YouTube right?

Ribald is really not asking for a lot here.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

Definitely an odd thing for you to say, considering you posted the same vid in this topic 3 times and practically begged me to watch it. Still waiting.

I count 4.
How would you know that 3 of them are identical, if you did not take the time to look at even one?

 

[The Void]

OP, I'm sorry for deviating, but not intentionally.



I think you missed the point though.

All ends up as shit, after it goes through the processes,

but it begins as something else.

It's all about the experience and processes, mane.

Step #10 might = shit, but what about steps #1-9?

Why not enjoy them? Even if in spite of #10


You grow old and die, yes, but why not enjoy all that comes before even if in spite of the end?

But all end up as shit, because it always had been shit, potential shit,
just shit in different (n0n-shit form,) but still shit nonetheless.
Shit is all, all is shit, shit is God, shit is holy,
worship the shits,
hail before shits: the ultimate form, the peak of evolution!