• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • Done now. Domine miserere nobis.

Scientific Research Career

JLMC

Dilettente
Local time
Today 5:12 AM
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
11
---
Location
New England, USA
I've looked at various sites suggesting careers for INTPs recently. Many included long lists with geologist, botanist, astronomer, etc. These are basically career-science gigs requiring a PhD, ending with tenured professorships or otherwise heading a lab. Since I've seen several threads with college students searching for a major, and since I started down the researcher path before leaving it, I feel I must offer my advice. A week in the life of a scientist may feature a lot of things an INTP looks for. But there are also many reasons why an INTP might not like such a career, and should think twice about it.

First, INTPs like variety, and scientific reseach requires a lot of specialization. Are you ready to commit your entire career to thinking about a small slice of an academic discipline? Even if you switch topics from time to time, which is possible, you must concentrate for years on your projects. These are often technical, and do not involve a lot of daydreaming about big ideas. In theory, if you eventually get tenure you can do whatever you want, but....

Second, the training is long and intense. Even after undergraduate work you must get a PhD, then post-docs, then a junior appointmentship before you have a chance at real stability. This could easily take 10 years, and maybe much longer. To be successful you will have to devote most of your days, evenings and weekends to thinking about your topic, so you may have little time for side hobbies and projects. Can you work this intently on a career, making many sacrifices along the way? (I.e. low pay, little say about where in the country you live.) We're all taught in school to take the long view, delay gratification and make sacrifices; but if a hypothetical job required 40 years of virtual-servitude and then paid $200k for 10 years, would it be worth it? Only you can decide.

Third, it is generally a very uncertain career track with lots of competition. It's not like dentistry (Taleb's example of "Mediocristan") where you put in your time and then are gauranteed moderate success; it's more like trying to be an actor ("Extremistan"), where a very few people make it very big, some do okay, and many more fail entirely. Research projects may or may not work; you may or may not meet the right people, etc. There is an overabundance of PhDs generally, so you might never get a tenure job; let alone be a famous scientist at Harvard. It is also a very rigid track, and transitioning out of it can be tough, unless you're in a field like CS.

In short, while the dream of a well-paying, tenure-track job on a pretty campus is great...a lot of what's involved to get there doesn't seem ideal for INTPs (or anyone) and the reward is very uncertain. I'm not telling anyone not to aim for this, but to consider the downsides too; they're not apparent from the lists online or the choices of major in college -- where it seems all careers are sort of equivalent. There are lots of things to do in life, and academia isn't the only place to think and solve problems.
 
Last edited:

Dr. Freeman

In a place outside of time
Local time
Today 5:12 AM
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
725
---
Which is why I want to get into engineering. (Some of the several reasons.)
 

Architect

Professional INTP
Local time
Today 3:12 AM
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
6,691
---
I left a hard science PhD for engineering - it was a great choice for the reasons you mention. Generally you need to be very single minded to pursue a career in science. Oh I know one guy who is able to do cross disciplinary work (and started a company) but he's the exception. In my career I've gotten to do a variety of things, work a regular 8 hour schedule (I'm working all day but on my own projects too), and get paid loads of money to do it. Way better ...

but if a hypothetical job required 40 years of virtual-servitude and then paid $200k for 10 years, would it be worth it?

Better to work 40 years @$200k
 

tonbomon

Redshirt
Local time
Today 9:12 PM
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
6
---
Location
Australia
I'm also studying (electrical) engineering, really the best decision I've made in my life. The small amount of science I've studied as part of it was definitely interesting, but I do find myself thinking that theres no way I could commit myself to science. There just seems to be alot of frustrations there I couldn't handle(like the ones mentioned). I'm also a bit lazy..... I want to figure something out NOW! or in the nearish future.

Engineering just seems to be a bit more versatile and the main satisfaction I've had so far is from being able to solve a range of different problems. LOTS of logic involved too, which I LOVE. It's nice!

You are an INTP right JLMC? What have you chosen to do over research??
 

A22

occasional poster
Local time
Today 10:12 AM
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
601
---
Location
Brazil
I intend to do biotechnology / bioprocess engineering / genetic engineering / biochemistry. It involves biology, chemistry, physics and math. Which is what I like to study. I'm kinda lazy but when it comes to studying what I like I can easily spend all my day doing it.
 

digital angel

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today 5:12 AM
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
554
---
Location
Tax World/In my Mind
While pay, achievement, competition and so on are all things to consider, I think one of the most important things to consider is whether or not you're truly interested in the field or subject itself. People have second careers; people also have hobbies.

Generally speaking, I don't think people go into academia for the pay. Just like any other profession, it takes time and dedication. I'm a tax attorney and love tax law. I want to enter academia; I want to be an adjunct law professor.
 

JLMC

Dilettente
Local time
Today 5:12 AM
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
11
---
Location
New England, USA
Interesting to have so many engineers. It probably does involve a lot of similar problem solving, though not the theory.

DA, you're right no one enters academia for the money (though full professors at major schools do quite decently) but neither to they always consider that 10+ years of near-poverty can be a major hurdle in achieving other life goals, like traveling or owning a house. Money for its own sake is useless, but it allows for other things; it's one other thing to consider in a career.

I studied theoretical biology and now teach as an adjunct; I am planning on shifting away from teaching and into something else though, to do more problem solving and be involved in making things. I had planned to be a professor myself, so perhaps am only self-justifying in this thread. But based on the experiences of friends and many others (seen online and in higher-ed journals), it is common for reasonably bright people to be directed towards academia with little discussion of the pitfalls. For instance 75% of faculty are not full-time tenured people; which is great for a side-gig or as semi-retirement, Digital Angel, but terrible for a primary career. There just needs to be more honest discussion of it all: academia is not quite the "real world" but it's no fantasy land either.
 

scorpiomover

The little professor
Local time
Today 10:12 AM
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
3,383
---
I can agree with you there.

When I was in uni, some of my professors suggested I do a PhD. So I asked my mentor, who was a lecturer (We all had them), what research was like. The conversation went like this:

Him: "You've written an answer on one of your questions."
Me: "Yes?"
Him: "It wasn't the standard answer, that everyone was expected to give, and did give."
Me: "Is it wrong?"
Him: "No."

(Following on from coming up with unusual answers to questions)

Me: "If I go for a PhD, do I get to pick the thing I want to study?"
Him: "You have to study what your supervisor tells you to study."
Me: "OK. But what if I discover something that isn't what he was looking for?"
Him: "You have to prove what he tells you to prove."

I moved to IT. Not sure if it was the best move, and every so often, I do think about going back and doing maths all day, as I do love it with a passion. But I'm just not good at just following the rules blindly.
 

Jah

Mu.
Local time
Today 11:12 AM
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
896
---
Location
Oslo, Norway.
Combine; Academia and free-lance problem-solving ?
 

lakeamy

Redshirt
Local time
Today 5:12 AM
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Messages
2
---
I left a hard science PhD for engineering - it was a great choice for the reasons you mention. Generally you need to be very single minded to pursue a career in science. Oh I know one guy who is able to do cross disciplinary work (and started a company) but he's the exception. In my career I've gotten to do a variety of things, work a regular 8 hour schedule (I'm working all day but on my own projects too), and get paid loads of money to do it. Way better ...
@$200k

What type of engineering do you do/did you major in? And what type of company do you work at (large or small, etc.)? And are your own projects part of the job, or something you do in free time on the job?
 

Peeps999

Active Member
Local time
Today 5:12 AM
Joined
Jul 17, 2011
Messages
144
---
Location
Indiana
Never thought of it this way considering I hate being told what to do. What are some good careers for INTP's besides engineering?
 

Dapper Dan

Did zat sting?
Local time
Today 4:12 AM
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
465
---
Location
Indiana
I can't help but think that Computer Science is the perfect INTP major. Programming is all about abstract systems and everything is very logical. And no papers to BS your way through! Woo hoo!

Also, many workplaces seem to be quite progressive in terms of things like required degrees and dress code. I've only recently graduated, but most of the places I've interviewed seem very INTP-friendly. :D
 

digital angel

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today 5:12 AM
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
554
---
Location
Tax World/In my Mind
Interesting to have so many engineers. It probably does involve a lot of similar problem solving, though not the theory.

DA, you're right no one enters academia for the money (though full professors at major schools do quite decently) but neither to they always consider that 10+ years of near-poverty can be a major hurdle in achieving other life goals, like traveling or owning a house. Money for its own sake is useless, but it allows for other things; it's one other thing to consider in a career.

I studied theoretical biology and now teach as an adjunct; I am planning on shifting away from teaching and into something else though, to do more problem solving and be involved in making things. I had planned to be a professor myself, so perhaps am only self-justifying in this thread. But based on the experiences of friends and many others (seen online and in higher-ed journals), it is common for reasonably bright people to be directed towards academia with little discussion of the pitfalls. For instance 75% of faculty are not full-time tenured people; which is great for a side-gig or as semi-retirement, Digital Angel, but terrible for a primary career. There just needs to be more honest discussion of it all: academia is not quite the "real world" but it's no fantasy land either.


Thanks for your thoughts. I've given up on home ownership. At this point, I can't say that I'll be able to retire. I'll probably die shortly after I retire any way.

I'd love to enter academia as an adjunct to teach and to help others. I know I wouldn't be where I am now without my first tax law professor. She's smart, dedicated and truly knows how to foster growth.
 

Architect

Professional INTP
Local time
Today 3:12 AM
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
6,691
---
I can't help but think that Computer Science is the perfect INTP major. Programming is all about abstract systems and everything is very logical. And no papers to BS your way through! Woo hoo!

Also, many workplaces seem to be quite progressive in terms of things like required degrees and dress code. I've only recently graduated, but most of the places I've interviewed seem very INTP-friendly. :D

Agree
 
Top Bottom