Robitussin + Adrafinil (Modafinil) = procrastination (inability to do things) killer?

[baccheion]

(Everything is taken daily, unless otherwise stated)

DXM (Dextromethorphan-- aka-- Robitussin) :: 6.4mg per kilogram of body weight (once every 2 weeks-- may leave you out of it for 5 hours, so it's good to take at a time when you can sit around not doing anything)

Memantine :: 10mg in the morning + 5-10mg at night (taper up 2.5mg every 3-4 days to avoid dissociation and other side effects)

Adrafinil :: 300 - 600mg (precursor to Modafinil-- literal Modafinil-- not something similar to it-- actual Modafinil-- can be hard on the liver-- takes 90 minutes to kick in-- but it's usually not relevant at this dosage and frequency)

Caffeine :: 200mg

PhenylPiracetam Hydrazide :: 100mg (2x / week)

N-Acetyl Semax Amidate :: 600mcg

N-Acetyl Selank :: 200mcg

300mg 5-HTP + 3000mg L-Tyrosine + 400mg EGCG (green tea extract, if you aren't one with the gene that will result in it destroying your liver)

Robitussin explicitly often has Acetaminophen mixed in, which can easily result in liver damage at the dosages mentioned here, so it's important to ensure you're getting pure DXM, rather than something mixed with other things. Also, Robitussin combined with MAOIs or SSRIs results in instant death. Therefore, it's important to research all of what's listed here (thoroughly) prior to attempting to administer them.

What effect will these things have? Many. They clear the static of your thoughts (OCD, etc), they result in a permanent stabilized intelligence increase (10 IQ points, or fluidity with what was already present), and they effectively eliminate one's inability to do things (procrastination). That's the key and corner stone of it all. It eliminates the procrastination problem!

https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/dxm_basics.shtml

 

[Seteleechete]

An interesting topic I haven't spent nearly enough time looking into. What drugs can be beneficial to you and how?

they effectively eliminate one's inability to do things (procrastination). That's the key and corner stone of it all. It eliminates the procrastination problem!

Hah, funny joke.

 

[kora]

This is magic clever potion ?

 

[Pizzabeak]

I'd be interested in going through a trial. Any word on where to get the source ingredients?
How does it hold up with say the ADD/ADHD meds?

 

[Tannhauser]

I am pretty sure about one thing: life without caffeine is useless.

Haven't tried any of that other stuff, although Modafinil seems very interesting.

 

[Kuu]

Ah, the perpetual search for the procrastination cure. Procrastination is a horrible mindstate very hard to grow out of... a chemical fix is a very attractive pursuit indeed. (Indeed, writing this very post is an act of procrastination, le sigh)

I've noticed there's several aspects that contribute to procrastination, but are not procrastination itself: focus, motivation and energy. These tend to combine to create a self-reinforcing nightmare but even when mostly fixing them procrastination itself persists.

Procrastination is not "the inability to do things". It's the inability to do the right things. You can be hyper-focused, super-motivated, overflowing with energy... doing things you shouldn't be doing. It's a fucking curse.

Fixing the day-to-day focus-motivation-energy mess is only the necessary first step to actually fixing the mess on a long-term basis and defeating procrastination. You need the hardware to be running properly, yes, but also need to uninstall all the bad behaviours and install some proper software in your NoodleOS. The core of procrastination is a risk / task management / priorities failure. It's a matter of long term habits. Recently I read this writeup on procrastination, it's a pretty accurate take as a layman's explanation IMO.

In other words, I don't think any substance or combination thereof will allow one to defeat procrastination without also a hard, sustained effort to unlearn / learn. Basically some form of CBT. I mean I would love for a pill to fix this thing, but so I would love to just take a pill and learn, say, Chinese. But the brain just doesn't seem to work that way. Meds themselves don't rearrange your neuronal pathways.

Nevertheless, nootropics are exciting.

Are you recommending all of these stacked together? Seems kinda insane. I'm always skeptical of big stacks, how do people even distinguish the effects, if any? I fear placebo and confirmation bias are rampant.

Caffeine with Adrafinil? Sounds like overstimulation and tachycardia to me.

I should do more reading on Memantine and 5-HTP...

PhenylPiracetam Hydrazide :: 100mg (2x / week)

N-Acetyl Semax Amidate :: 600mcg

N-Acetyl Selank :: 200mcg

What are your experiences with these, in particular Semax and Selank? I've read great things about them and Noopept, but everyone's trying to sell something...

My ongoing Aniracetam/Oxiracetam experiments seem awfully inconclusive.

I am pretty sure about one thing: life without caffeine is useless.

Haven't tried any of that other stuff, although Modafinil seems very interesting.

You should try adding Theanine to your caffeine.

Modafinil is hands down superior, though.

 

[Tannhauser]

You should try adding Theanine to your caffeine.

Modafinil is hands down superior, though.

I actually bought a caffeine drink today which apparently contains 180mg Theanine. I think it worked really well.

 

[Hadoblado]

I replaced caffeine entirely with modafinil. IMO it's superior.
- cheaper than buying coffee
- less effort than making coffee
- can take without concern for impacts on diet
- don't have to refill. Take your tabs at start of day and forget about it until the next morning.
- no highs that fuel unproductive punch-dancing behaviour (but seriously one of the issues I had with caffeine was that it would make me distractable)
- no headaches or lows

The only issue I've encountered is that when I do too much all at once, I get overstimulated and it's like my conscious thought gets shut down. I think this state replaces exhaustion, so it's not like it's less productive, it's just experienced differently. All in all using moda was a fantastic decision for me and it's payed dividends.

As Kuu said, it's more about habit forming than how many drugs you have in your body at one time. It's very easy to lose a day gaming or reading while using moda, but if you make the decision to work or study at the start, you'll have the energy and focus to see it through thanks to moda. It's not a magical cure, you still need willpower, but the clawing of exhaustion and the screams of distraction are more removed?

I'm no pharmacologist, but I'd be concerned about flooding your system with that much stuff. It sounds like you're going for a high score or something. Also... 10 IQ points? That's sounds like BS. Show me the study that says mixing all this stuff gives you a stable increase of 10 IQ. I highly doubt there is one.

 

[baccheion]

Has anyone tried this? How well has it worked?

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

Hadoblado already questioned the supposed permanent IQ increase, so I won't, but I worry about some of the components of your cocktail.

If I'm in the tripping paradigm, then a 2nd or 3rd plateau trip with DXM polystirex every month or two. If not, then I've considered experimenting with lower and more frequent doses potentiated by grapefruit juice, though I'm able to get a nuedexta script as well, and on my next trip (tonight, lol) I want to isolate the effects of a trip after 6 weeks of 5HT upregulation (described below), so no grapefruit yet.

Here's the rest of mine, which I've found to be effective for depression and lack of focus:

Citicoline: upregulates striatal dopamine receptors and provides a more immediate choline source across the blood brain barrier.

St John's Wort: upregulates various serotonin (5HT) receptors, which compensates for the effects of DXM (which also increases in intensity, I just don't know how much yet).

5-HTP: Serotonin presursor.

L-theanine: inhibits excitotoxicity due to the effects of cortisol and epinepherine, and alters dopamine expression in the brain.

L-DOPA: Dopamine precursor.

Caffeine: The positive effects are known, but the key here is that L-theanine inhibits the negative effects, and citicoline provides the fuel.

All of this is combined with a good diet.

I have things like racetams, PEA, lithium carbonate, prescription meds, and various vitamins available, I just don't find them necessary. I am curious what replacing L-DOPA with something like methylphenidate or modafinil would accompish though.

The interactions of this particular cocktail are a bit more complex than stated and there are other possible concerns not listed (like cadmium bioaccumulation in SJW, for example), but that's the general gist, and it's all around very likely more neuroprotective, less demanding on the liver, less expensive, and its components are supported with more scientific rigor.

 

[Reluctantly]

Siberian Ginseng (from guava ginseng tea) works great for me. Wakes me up, makes me feel alert, and for some reason stabilizes my moods.

 

[baccheion]

Hadoblado already questioned the supposed permanent IQ increase, so I won't, but I worry about some of the components of your cocktail.

If I'm in the tripping paradigm, then a 2nd or 3rd plateau trip with DXM polystirex every month or two. If not, then I've considered experimenting with lower and more frequent doses potentiated by grapefruit juice, though I'm able to get a nuedexta script as well, and on my next trip (tonight, lol) I want to isolate the effects of a trip after 6 weeks of 5HT upregulation (described below), so no grapefruit yet.

Here's the rest of mine, which I've found to be effective for depression and lack of focus:

Citicoline: upregulates striatal dopamine receptors and provides a more immediate choline source across the blood brain barrier.

St John's Wort: upregulates various serotonin (5HT) receptors, which compensates for the effects of DXM (which also increases in intensity, I just don't know how much yet).

5-HTP: Serotonin presursor.

L-theanine: inhibits excitotoxicity due to the effects of cortisol and epinepherine, and alters dopamine expression in the brain.

L-DOPA: Dopamine precursor.

Caffeine: The positive effects are known, but the key here is that L-theanine inhibits the negative effects, and citicoline provides the fuel.

All of this is combined with a good diet.

I have things like racetams, PEA, lithium carbonate, prescription meds, and various vitamins available, I just don't find them necessary. I am curious what replacing L-DOPA with something like methylphenidate or modafinil would accompish though.

The interactions of this particular cocktail are a bit more complex than stated and there are other possible concerns not listed (like cadmium bioaccumulation in SJW, for example), but that's the general gist, and it's all around very likely more neuroprotective, less demanding on the liver, less expensive, and its components are supported with more scientific rigor.

You can look into replacing raw choline with Centrophenoxine, Acetyl L-Carnitine, and something with a methyl group (methylcobalamin (vitamin B12), methylfolate (vitamin B9), TMG (TriMethylGlycine), etc). Centrophenoxine is essentially choline minus a methyl group. When taken with methyl donors, acetyl donors, and the relevant cofactors, the body can control/determine how much is converted to choline (centrophenoxine + methyl) and then acetylcholine (choline + acetyl). This should help avoid the effects of depression from taking too much choline, while also getting the benefits of acetyl l-carnitine, centrophenoxine, and the methyl donor.

Serotonin precursors and St. John's Wort aren't great for long term supplementation, but can be beneficial if limited to 6 week cycles every few months. There are other stack ideas for depression (of mine) that you can find at the following location: http://www.trackmystack.com/users/baccheion

L-theanine goes well with caffeine, yes, but caffeine is something that can often be replaced with other things. For example, Acetyl L-Carnitine + N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine + PhenylPiracetam Hydrazide + Centrophenoxine + Fish Oil is a synergistic combination that also enhances motivation, energy, etc (though it would only be taken once or twice a week to avoid developing a tolerance).

The page I linked to may give ideas of other alternatives that may be more effective (sometimes) and usually with less side effects.

The "default" nootropic stack (when in doubt) is probably N-Acetyl Semax Amidate and N-Acetyl Selank (or SEMAX + Selank, if you want the versions that have been around for a long time and have many studies supporting their safety). You can also add in PhenylPiracetam Hydrazide (and maybe the rest of what I mentioned above) as-needed for an extra boost.

 

[PmjPmj]

In my experience, amphetamine = lots of energy / high euphoria for a while. Marginally increased focus and a definite motivation to get shit done. C'est bon.

Dextroamphetamine = less energy and euphoria, but more concentration and a similar if not greater drive to get shit done.

A = take if I have physical shit do to; D = take if I have a lot of mental work to do.

... and if socialising (especially prolonged) is unavoidable, both at the same time.

ENTJ mode: Engage!

 

[baccheion]

Hadoblado already questioned the supposed permanent IQ increase, so I won't, but I worry about some of the components of your cocktail.

If I'm in the tripping paradigm, then a 2nd or 3rd plateau trip with DXM polystirex every month or two. If not, then I've considered experimenting with lower and more frequent doses potentiated by grapefruit juice, though I'm able to get a nuedexta script as well, and on my next trip (tonight, lol) I want to isolate the effects of a trip after 6 weeks of 5HT upregulation (described below), so no grapefruit yet.

Here's the rest of mine, which I've found to be effective for depression and lack of focus:

Citicoline: upregulates striatal dopamine receptors and provides a more immediate choline source across the blood brain barrier.

St John's Wort: upregulates various serotonin (5HT) receptors, which compensates for the effects of DXM (which also increases in intensity, I just don't know how much yet).

5-HTP: Serotonin presursor.

L-theanine: inhibits excitotoxicity due to the effects of cortisol and epinepherine, and alters dopamine expression in the brain.

L-DOPA: Dopamine precursor.

Caffeine: The positive effects are known, but the key here is that L-theanine inhibits the negative effects, and citicoline provides the fuel.

All of this is combined with a good diet.

I have things like racetams, PEA, lithium carbonate, prescription meds, and various vitamins available, I just don't find them necessary. I am curious what replacing L-DOPA with something like methylphenidate or modafinil would accompish though.

The interactions of this particular cocktail are a bit more complex than stated and there are other possible concerns not listed (like cadmium bioaccumulation in SJW, for example), but that's the general gist, and it's all around very likely more neuroprotective, less demanding on the liver, less expensive, and its components are supported with more scientific rigor.

Acetyl L-Carnitine + Centrophenoxine (choline minus a methyl group, essentially) + a methyl donor (methylcobalamin (vitamin B12), methylfolate (vitamin B9), TMG (TriMethylGlycine), etc) may be better than raw choline, as the body can then control the amount of choline synthesized.

I remember reading serotonin precursors (and St. John's Wort) aren't suitable for long-term supplementation. That is, they are better when used for about 6 weeks a few times a year. Also, you can look into taking 5-HTP with EGCG (green tea extract), as that will increase the odds it won't be converted to serotonin before it gets to the brain (EGCG uses up the enzyme that would normally convert 5-htp to serotonin in the intestines). Some have a gene that results in EGCG being damaging to the liver, so it may not be for everyone. If you take 5-HTP frequently, then it's good to also supplement with L-Tyrosine (or N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine) at a separate time, as its absorption is inhibited by 5-HTP.

Rather than dealing with caffeine (which, yes, pairs well with L-theanine), you can look into something like N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine + Acetyl L-Carnitine + PhenylPiracetam Hydrazide + TheaCrine + Centrophenoxine + Fish Oil. While the combo can only be used once or twice a week (to avoid tolerance), it provides much cleaner energy/stimulation than caffeine and isn't addictive. You can also add fasoracetam to even things out even more.

Also, vitamin C is an often overlooked dopamine enhancer. At the dosages required, it would be better to look into the liposomal form, as it absorbs much better without putting much strain on the digestive system. You can either buy liposomal vitamin C (which goes well with liposomal Glutathione-- a form that's actually absorbable by the body), or buy an ultrasonic cleaner, then (follow instructions available online to) make your own from regular ascorbic acid and lecithin.

There are other stacks of mine (some targeted toward depression) here: https://trackmystack.com/users/baccheion

One of the best things to look into for depression (especially if SSRIs haven't worked) is Tianeptine Sulfate. You can see more about it on the page I linked to above.

 

[baccheion]

I'd be interested in going through a trial. Any word on where to get the source ingredients?
How does it hold up with say the ADD/ADHD meds?

You can get most things from www.ceretropic.com/products/ or http://www.powdercity.com/ . DXM is just robitussin, so you can get that anywhere (you just have to ensure it has nothing else in it).

Ah, the perpetual search for the procrastination cure. Procrastination is a horrible mindstate very hard to grow out of... a chemical fix is a very attractive pursuit indeed. (Indeed, writing this very post is an act of procrastination, le sigh)

I've noticed there's several aspects that contribute to procrastination, but are not procrastination itself: focus, motivation and energy. These tend to combine to create a self-reinforcing nightmare but even when mostly fixing them procrastination itself persists.

Procrastination is not "the inability to do things". It's the inability to do the right things. You can be hyper-focused, super-motivated, overflowing with energy... doing things you shouldn't be doing. It's a fucking curse.

Fixing the day-to-day focus-motivation-energy mess is only the necessary first step to actually fixing the mess on a long-term basis and defeating procrastination. You need the hardware to be running properly, yes, but also need to uninstall all the bad behaviours and install some proper software in your NoodleOS. The core of procrastination is a risk / task management / priorities failure. It's a matter of long term habits. Recently I read this writeup on procrastination, it's a pretty accurate take as a layman's explanation IMO.

In other words, I don't think any substance or combination thereof will allow one to defeat procrastination without also a hard, sustained effort to unlearn / learn. Basically some form of CBT. I mean I would love for a pill to fix this thing, but so I would love to just take a pill and learn, say, Chinese. But the brain just doesn't seem to work that way. Meds themselves don't rearrange your neuronal pathways.

Nevertheless, nootropics are exciting.

Are you recommending all of these stacked together? Seems kinda insane. I'm always skeptical of big stacks, how do people even distinguish the effects, if any? I fear placebo and confirmation bias are rampant.

Caffeine with Adrafinil? Sounds like overstimulation and tachycardia to me.

I should do more reading on Memantine and 5-HTP...



What are your experiences with these, in particular Semax and Selank? I've read great things about them and Noopept, but everyone's trying to sell something...

My ongoing Aniracetam/Oxiracetam experiments seem awfully inconclusive.



You should try adding Theanine to your caffeine.

Modafinil is hands down superior, though.

I especially like the Semax and Selank combination. Semax is a very versatile, long-lasting, and all around great nootropic. You'll probably have to try all 3 versions (available on the site I mention above) to see which works best for you. As for noopept, I don't like it nearly as much (mainly due to its negative effects on short-term memory and libido).

My theory is that these are among the only nootropics that will produce noticeable effects:

1. (N-Acetyl) Semax (Amidate) + N-Acetyl Selank :: the nasal spray versions taken everyday are the best all around nootropics, last long (20 hours, so you only have to spray in the morning), and have the best/strongest overall effects.
2. Cerebrolysin :: great overall brain "reset"
3. Memantine + Unifiram :: AMPAkine
4. NSI-189
5. Fasoracetam + Coluracetam
6. PhenylPiracetam Hydrazide :: good for motivation when used 2-3x/week
7. Noopept :: nasal spray version is like a cheap version of Semax
8. Fasoracetam + Phenibut (1-2x/week) :: great for anxiety, and Phenibut works better, as fasoracetam slows tolerance build up
9. Deprenyl :: maybe it's 1mg/week, but it has long-term all around effects that make it worth researching
10. Tianeptine Sulfate :: helps with depression specifically (and works quite well-- better than many antidepressants, etc), and also anxiety

I have my stacks posted here: https://trackmystack.com/users/baccheion

 

[ordobey]

For me the most effective nootropics i've tried are:

- Caffeine + L-Theanine: As simple as having 200mg with a cup of coffee really seemed to boost the effects and got rid of the anxiety I sometimes experience when having coffee. I've tried drinking grapefruit juice with the coffee too and it supposedly increases the length of the caffeine boost. These 3 together are fantastic.

- Adrafinil: This has worked pretty great for me too. If I take it in the morning I feel very productive all day and never have trouble sleeping at night (as I do if I take it later in the day).

- Tianeptine Sulfate: I really enjoy this for anxiety and for social situations.

There's a really nice introduction to nootropics here: https://nootropics.com/introduction-to-nootropics/

I think the prices are a little steep on some of their products, but the blog post itself is useful.