Resentment

[TBerg]

When I cam back home, there was so much trouble here. My mom got very little help from my dad, the house and the area was full of junk, and my mom wept over my dad's lack of responsibility and getting drunk all the time. My mom kept saying that she would not know what she would do if I was not here. When my sister and her husband came as well, we had expected that they would help and that we would have a good relationship with them. But that was not the case.

As days turned into months, they would barely talk to us. In fact, my sister got annoyed by the simplest questions and would come up to the house and spend time on her phone without uttering a word to us. While I was recognizing and responding to family needs, listening to my mom's plight and filling a supplementary role, my sister barely had a word for us.

I make sure that the house is reasonably clean, that I help my mom with anything that needs done, and that the household improvements not go without attention. My dad has not been very supportive of my mom and has been what I might crudely call a lazy son of a bitch. My sister only recently has begun to offer a token of generosity. She takes our food and lives on the property, after all.

Anyway, even though she is getting better, I still have a whole lot of resentment when I am in her presence. She was a daily reminder that I had a sister that could not give a shit about anything, and now I feel like she should play catch up for a long time. She needs to put forth the effort I did while she was so callously obtuse and lame. I tried and tried and tried to get her to do something, and now it seems like she should do the same for me.

She was my favorite person as a child. Now she is my nemesis.

 

[Grayman]

Those who are set high are sure to disappoint. I am sorry to hear that. Why is she there if she does not want to be there?

 

[TBerg]

Probably free rent.

All I know is that people are unappreciative little bastards. They don't even understand the principle of reciprocity.

Thanks for your compassionate words.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I get the sense that you're dropping hints instead of explicitly asking for help and communicating. Your true nemesis here is probably the bystander effect.

 

[Grayman]

I get the sense that you're dropping hints instead of explicitly asking for help and communicating. Your true nemesis here is probably the bystander effect.

I may be off base but I don't think the actually issue is that she isn't helping. It is a problem but I don't get the sense that it is the most upsetting part of the problem.

Generally if you are continually asked to do things instead of you offering, people feel you are doing it out of obligation and not appreciation. It also shows a lack of concern for others because you are only doing the least amount needed in order to not make waves and get in trouble, instead of doing it through some pre-emptive empathetic response. At least that is how it is viewed. For this reason it is polite to ask "Is there anything I can do to help out?" once in a while. The newer generations are more neglectful of these social ques.


@TBerg Maybe just letting them know of your feelings on the issues and what the triggers are would give her some space to show you her appreciation in her own way? It also considered better discussion if you put the onus your own emotions on yourself "I feel like this when 'this' happens" vs putting it all on them "You don't help out and you are selfish and don't care about mom or any of us." "You are getting just as lazy as dad and never help out!". A statemetn that seems like an attack automatically puts them on the defense and makes it harder to resolve the issue. By notifying them of your resultant feelings due to the current situation you give them an opportunity to fix the situation and come out being a more responsible and observant indivdiual to yours and your mothers feelings. "I feel like there is a lack of appreciation toward mom and myself when you don't offer to help out."

 

[EditorOne]

"By notifying them of your resultant feelings due to the current situation you give them an opportunity to fix the situation and come out being a more responsible and observant individual to yours and your mothers feelings" ...


... and if that doesn't work you can always tell them to either chip in or shove off, you've got what I'll call "moral equity", therefore standing, in the overall situation.

1. Your sister is obtuse or feckless or
2. Your sister is abusive of you and your mother.

In the second case, not doing anything at all is a form of enabling.

Very much OK to bring it up with us, but eventually it comes down to dealing with them, one way or another.

 

[dark+matters]

I feel bad for your mother and for you as well since this sounds so painful, but at the same time, I have to wonder if your sister isn't tired of having grown up with an alcoholic family. Most of my working years have been spent in bars watching and caring about families in which one or another person had an out-of-control relationship with alcohol, and it seemed very, very draining. Sometimes, I'll read your posts and worry about some soul out there in a small town (I'm assuming) named TBerg who is suffering unnecessarily. Have you considered going away for a while and working somewhere or going back to college in another town?

I have been in a drama triangle before, and I don't know if this chart will help you to sort out your own feelings about the situation:

http://ryoc.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Karpman-Drama-Triangle-How-to-STOP-the-Drama.jpg

 

[Nikki 1635]

I think people, in general, resent INTP's.

We're not "fun", (unless of course we're around intuitive people who get us)

and we're not all that practical.


So resentment, to me anyway, is others not embracing our personalities.

Its a serious obstacle to our social lives.

 

[Brontosaurie]

I think people, in general, resent INTP's.

We're not "fun", (unless of course we're around intuitive people who get us)

and we're not all that practical.


So resentment, to me anyway, is others not embracing our personalities.

Its a serious obstacle to our social lives.

also being born in 1635 doesn't help

 

[TBerg]

Thank you everyone for your engaged pieces of advice. A lot of the weight actually leaves my existence just by giving me space to be heard.

The three major factors that keep me here are:

I have failed in all other vocations of mine. College seems to me to be a waste of time now, and I suck at working with people.

My dad also is becoming less and less capable of basic tasks in his old age. My mom has too much to do on her own without retirement to rely upon.

Our house still is mortgaged for a few more years and I don't want us to lose it.

I might get up the courage to be vulnerable in front of my sister, but my resentment and her lack of care is a big obstacle.

 

[TBerg]

The worst part about it is that so many things could have turned out better had my sister lender her hand in just a few ways a couple years earlier. I know both my mom and my dad are dismayed by her behavior.

 

[Grayman]

The worst part about it is that so many things could have turned out better had my sister lender her hand in just a few ways a couple years earlier. I know both my mom and my dad are dismayed by her behavior.

As an adult she should be appreciative to have help from you and your mother and a place to stay but how many of the issues are from your mother enabling your father and are you partially resentful because you have taken much of the the burden that he was supposed to carry as the man of the house? Generally the son shouldn't be so concerned with what his sister is doing in regards to this situation, not that you shouldn't at all but that you shouldn't be this upset.

It is the fathers role to look out for his wife and he would usually be the one to get upset when the children are taking advantage of him and his wife and their house and home. To be honest, this is your mothers house, retirement, and children. It is her responsiblity to stop enabling the husband and your sister. I am not saying it is your mothers fault. Not at all. I am saying that it isn't your emotional burden to carry. I could just be reflecting on my wife's household and mine on you but... My wife and I, of course growing up in different households, ended up feeling responsible for the whole family. We both felt that we were the glue that held everything together and we felt like we had to be the responsible ones even though our parents were the adults. Is that you? Does your mother, having no other adults to confide in always look up to you for help and support? Has she inadvertently placed you as her equal and friend and made you feel equally responsibly for the entire family before placing you as her son and child? I'm probably way off....but it seems common that one child grows up faster than they should when their parents fail to.

EDIT: Maybe htat is your sister too when you were younger and until she left. Maybe when she got married she finally realized that she didn't need to carry that burden and that she was supposed to be the child. Now, maybe she feels that her parents already owe her so much from her childhood she cannot feel appreciative.

 

[TBerg]

Some family values she learns from church, then. I thought Jesus was supposed to give them superpowers.

At any rate, I could go into extenuating justifications for my feelings, but I think you grasped the core of them pretty well.

 

[TBerg]

To follow up, I have a confession to make concerning an event subsequent to my OP. While a lot of true madness was unfolding, my mom got exceptionally and unfailingly angry about pretty much everything around her. She began to unload it upon me and take it out on me. We had a fight about it. It continued to yesterday.

She told me that out of everyone in the family, I needed counseling most of all. (Casual observers might agree, but they only observe casually.) That set me off big time. I began to unload upon her a whole lot of hateful stuff that I have tried to keep subdued for a long time. The fight culminated in me saying something truly shameful and which even upon the Web I need to refrain from quoting.

There is a resentful tendency in me that appears unparalleled by anyone else in my life. I hold grudges and take many things quite personally in manner that is probably abnormal. I think I feel that, since I have made so many sacrifices of my own dreams while also bearing the burden of the suffering of those around me, that others are under the same obligation. This may be maladjusted, but I don't necessarily think it is negative.

My mom has said that she would not know what she would do if I were not around to bear some of her burden.

My best friend, while she was struggling with her own tremendous faults I her marriage, put me as the first person to call when she faced an obstacle. Now that she found a boyfriend, she barely has time for me. She does not even answer my calls.

When my second cousin came for an extended visit, I listened to her problems with a good deal of empathy; but when I bring up my problems, she casually swept them under the rug.

Goddamnit. We live in a cruel world, and I am part of it. I also am capable of great cruelty.

 

[TBerg]

Now I must make my propitiations to humanity.

 

[Jennywocky]

To follow up, I have a confession to make concerning an event subsequent to my OP. While a lot of true madness was unfolding, my mom got exceptionally and unfailingly angry about pretty much everything around her. She began to unload it upon me and take it out on me. We had a fight about it. It continued to yesterday.

She told me that out of everyone in the family, I needed counseling most of all. (Casual observers might agree, but they only observe casually.) That set me off big time. I began to unload upon her a whole lot of hateful stuff that I have tried to keep subdued for a long time. The fight culminated in me saying something truly shameful and which even upon the Web I need to refrain from quoting...

I managed to survive my childhood without really getting into it with my parents, I was great at "stepping away" emotionally from the situation and/or stuffing it, and it worked for me because my parents did not pursue it. So I developed a pattern of behavior of avoidance.

Unfortunately, once I got married, I found myself repeatedly in situations where my now-ex would pursue me in arguments that I had previously been able to stuff sufficiently and/or escape from. There was no escape. The pressure built. Eventually I found myself blowing my top and saying really hurtful things. Not only did I feel bad for saying only partial truths (because in that 15 seconds, I could say something very nasty that I was feeling, yet that wasn't the totality of my overall feelings), but I felt disgusted with myself for losing my temper, for saying things like that, mad at my ex for pushing me so far without regard for the outcome, ashamed at my humanity when I tried to be above emotional outbursts, and weak because I wasn't able to maintain my control. (Those remarks I made also lingered with my ex and were brought up years later, despite my having apologized a few times for them. Damn that Si.)

It was a horrible experience but at the same time taught me that I couldn't continue to stuff my feelings without a really bad payoff, depending on the circumstances; so I had to learn to resolve my anger and disappointment in others before it got to that point.

IOW, maybe it's easy to beat yourself up about it, and maybe you did do something that you do feel you need to smack yourself for a moment; but it's also an opportunity to learn to do things differently and develop another part of who you could be, to improve your coping skills and feelings of competence.

it also perhaps could lead to you making new decisions about your life, where you realize you have been giving too much and that it's not helpful to yourself or to those you have been giving to.

 

[TBerg]

Not helping people would make me feel like the piece of shit I have always tried to avoid. It would make me feel like my dad and sister, actually.

 

[redbaron]

You don't have to not help people. Just don't help them to the extent that you're hurting yourself.

Or something like that.

 

[Jennywocky]

Not helping people would make me feel like the piece of shit I have always tried to avoid. It would make me feel like my dad and sister, actually.

I'm not saying 'not help,' but you're a human being and probably need to learn how much help to appropriately give. It's not black or white, there's intermediate steps as well.

your response is also interesting in terms of all the things you could state, but you chose these comments. It's the kind of thing that a therapist would hone in on, in terms of self-messaging. What I'm hearing.

1. Bad people don't help others; and if you don't help others (or at least those you have some kind of connection to), you're a bad person.

2. Helping seems to involve giving every ounce of possible help I imagine that I could offer, and if I don't give it, I'm a bad person.

3. I don't want to identify with my dad and sister [because I see them as bad people], so I will behave in ways that separate me from them.

Our underlying assumptions drive our behavior because they create feelings that we want to avoid, but sometimes our assumptions might not be positive long-term and need to be reevaluated. Your behavior seems reactive in some ways -- you don't want to be equated with dad/sister, so you force yourself to help unequivocably, and so on...

it can be kind of confusing. There are things about my dad that I didn't want to emulate; some of those things at this point I still think I shouldn't emulate, and there are other things that I realized I needed to accept and get over, that it was why I did that and how that mattered, not that I looked like him. [For example, he was really overbearing and in people's faces, and I hated that generally and saw him as insensitive. But I discovered that sometimes that might be an appropriate response in a given situation, if I thought through it; and so to just avoid looking like my dad and not taking a stronger face in certain situations wasn't necessarily the best choice.]

Sorry if I sound like I'm lecturing or something, I'm more just thinking out loud. There are things about you and your life I know I don't know, and I apologize if I sound like I assumed something that is erroneous. But maybe something useful is in there.

 

[onesteptwostep]

What's causing your father to drink so much?

Fix/amend or come to terms with that, and then seek forgiveness. Take time in discussing a plan for the future, and simply move on with your own life. Give your parents time and space to think about their future on their own. You yourself can survive on your own, so can your sister and her husband. Sometimes people need a sense of solitude to get an understanding of reality and to get their bearings straight. Considering that you're on an intp forum I think it's possible that your family is also largely introverted, and thus just by personality, need space in order to figure things out on their own. (a suggestion, though the things you are facing are probably more bigger than that)

Also.. condemning and blaming each other will get you nowhere.

Really sorry to hear about you and your mother.

 

[TBerg]

Yeah Jenny, those assumptions were not so far below the surface of my consciousness for myself. I do try the strategy you have outlined, but it is hard to feel good while doing something I have learned to avoid. I need other good examples to emulate, but it is hard for me to find a degree of intimacy with anyone, let alone someone I could see myself developing into. It is hard because my current needs disjoin me from people, but I need a connection to someone in order to restructure my needs. It is a fucking Catch 22.

 

[Lapis Lazuli]

I’d go back and take a look at the link provided by dark+matters, it is a nice birds eye view of the vicious cycle we sometimes go through. Creating yourself is the best medicine for resentment, but don’t become a persecutor.

Jennywocky has a nice way of expressing it!

“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.” -Nietzsche

 

[StevenM]

Not helping people would make me feel like the piece of shit I have always tried to avoid. It would make me feel like my dad and sister, actually.

That's understandable. However, there is such a thing as killing with kindness. Too much aid could have bad effects on a person, more notably feeding the seeds for ongoing dependence. When someone asks for directions, a helper doesn't jump behind the wheel and drive them there.

No hard and fast rules. But there's a big difference between a paralysed paraplegic, and someone who is more capable. There might be even some things a paraplegic could do.

Anyways, probably the best thing you could give a person, is the direction and confidence that they are capable on their own. And when the time comes that it is all up to themselves, they usually perk right into it.

When there's obligations involved, that'll strip away most of the good intention right there.

 

[TBerg]

AniO sounds like Oreo. Hey, that rhymes.

 

[Jennywocky]

Vittorio
Vittorio
Hands off
my Oreo!

---

Feel free to keep sharing here.

Yeah, maybe you're not in a position to know what to do / how to approach those relationships at this point. You just know you are frustrated and unhappy and don't like the way things are. Sometimes we're aware of the need to change something but not comfortable with doing it and maybe not even sure what the change should be.

Stuffing it / going it alone, though, just leaves you carrying a really heavy weight. If it helps you to vent here, until eventually you're at a point where you can change something, go for it.

 

[TBerg]

I am learning my own technique of making jewelry right now, and I am trying to be more humble in the face of my own inhumanity. I struggle to remind myself of the latter.

I should be making some of my own money soon, allowing my mom to stop focusing so much on her own business. Maybe things will become rebalanced then. It does help to have a space to talk things out in the meantime.

 

[Jennywocky]

What kind of jewelry are you making? It sounds interesting. (I think a lot of things sound interesting in terms of how they are done, but there's just too much to learn adequately and perfect one's skills at.)

 

[TBerg]

Wire-wrapped gemstones. It promises an easy lifestyle that can allow me to save tons of money if I actually sell my stuff. I can learn to be a part-time leisurely gentleman living cheaply on the road.

 

[Jennywocky]

Wire-wrapped gemstones.

nice. That sounds neat. I've played around with making earrings and necklaces, but only a bit. There's at least lots of cool supplies nowadays at Michaels and other chain stores.

It promises an easy lifestyle that can allow me to save tons of money if I actually sell my stuff. I can learn to be a part-time leisurely gentleman living cheaply on the road.

So would you try to sell it through a website, or would you basically go around to art/craft fairs? Or other things, or a combination?

once you get established, you could definitely generate a line of income, especially if there was something unique about your line.

 

[TBerg]

I buy my supplies from a jewelry supply merchant. And I will be going to the gem and mineral show in New Mexico in a year or so to see what more I can learn about gemstones and the variety of new trends.

 

[TBerg]

I am also modeling myself after successful businesses at arts and crafts festivals until I find my own niche.