religious people S or N?

[xbox]

Are religious people mostly *S**, or can they also be *N**?

I know that intellectuals may not be religious, because some religious people limit their mindsets especially when it comes to science.. but it still is supernatural, fantasy, mystical, blah blah and such.

I dont know, maybe I'm rambling. I just know some religious nuts who think theyre geniuses and their insight into things is pathetic such as, "oh I got cancer because a witch put a spell on me one day". (Im serious...someone said this to me).

Maybe Im asking the question because it has to do with the fact that religion does deal with mystical, fantasy world things. What bothers me is that they dont question it, they just follow what they read, or take their own meanings out of things.

Yeah you can tell I'm not religious. Just curious what others think.

 

[jameslikespie]

The four rational types *INTP, INTJ, ENTJ, ENTP* are usually not religious because, as they're title suggests, they're rational. The four artisan types *ISFP, ISTP, ESFP, ESTP* usually won't give a shit, they're more concerned with the present time and having fun etc and not in anything philosophical/theological. The four guardian types *ISTJ, ISFJ, ESFJ, ESTJ* are usually the religious ones or in extreme cases, the fundamentalists. The four idealist types *ENFP, INFJ, INFP, ENFJ* may or may not be religious, but if they are religious, they're usually VERY open-minded. I hope I helped you in some way.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

I was going to reply similarly to jameslikespie.

I think to an Idealist type, religion appears full of potential for helping themselves and others, but they don't like the whole "if you're not in our group then you're inferior" aspect of it, and so will be confronted with a dilemma of whether or not to be religious themselves. Eastern thought will tend to be popular; Abrahamic religions may not be due to the poor image they've received. Also, if they seem some Ideology to have potential, but to be very misused in how it is applied, they will often try not to much to go against that Ideology, but to work within it to try and change it for the better.

 

[xbox]

Thats very interesting.

 

[Jesse]

Welcome back xbox.

People believe in stuff for different reason and I don't think you can pin it down on one type.

 

[jameslikespie]

Welcome back xbox.

People believe in stuff for different reason and I don't think you can pin it down on one type.

True, but in general, it is like that, but obviously there are exceptions. I RARELY ever meet a religious rational type.

 

[GYX_Kid]

Religious concepts can be good for symbolism, sometimes. Rationals would probably take and use it for "what it is". Artisans too, but maybe not delve philosophically as much

 

[scorpiomover]

I had thought that this one was rather obvious. But, I guess not.

It really depends on what types of groups you are talking about, and which generation you are talking about, and which aspect of MBTI you are talking about.

MBTI measures preferences, which aspect you are more likely to choose, and not the absolute level. The tests are designed against the general population within the countries in which the test is set up. So they are designed to test against the norm demographics of the country and generation in which the test was designed.

So MBTI tests that are designed in Western countries in the last few generations, generally show up as jameslikespie pointed out, because that is what the demographics generally predict in those countries in these times. Generally, those countries in those times, are focussed on mind-numbing entertainment, and very little education about religion, with an extreme focus on ideological conformity. Part of those conformed values are that if you are smart, you'll be in science, and follow the rationalist ideology, which includes being non-religious.

However, a few hundred years ago in Western countries, if you were smart, you would be in theology. So back then, the NTs were all very religious.

In addition, if you go to other countries, like Israel, you find that the NTs are usually very religious.

Even within Western countries, if you look at Jews, Indians, and Pakistanis, you find that if you are an NT, you are usually very religious.

Even when you compare Jews, Indians, and Pakistanis to the rest of the country, what passes for very high NT in the rest of the country, counts for being an SF in those communities.

So the answer is extremely subjective, to the country you are talking about, the ethnic groups within those countries, and the times you are discussing.

What I have observed, is that when looking at the majority ethnicities of Western countries at the moment, NPs seem to lean much heavier towards theism, than NJs.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

What I have observed, is that when looking at the majority ethnicities of Western countries at the moment, NPs seem to lean much heavier towards theism, than NJs.

Really? Can you explain how you came to this conclusion?

 

[Puffy]

Really? Can you explain how you came to this conclusion?

I'm not sure I agree with hir conclusion either. NJs seem more prone to ideology, and in turn religion.

 

[Puffy]

To the OP:

I am not sure if it is a question of "S" or "N". Having been a part of a Christian community for a short-time I felt the N:S ratios were about the same as any other community. However, those Ns were mostly INFJs (like myself) and ENFJs. Though rarer, this was followed by INTJs and ENTJs. I met one ENTP, other than this I am not so sure about NP types. One of my best friends who is Christian might be an ENFP but that could be a push, I'm not sure.

I think it is more accurate to do this by functions rather than plain dichotomies. I think the favourite 'religious' functions are: Ni, Si, Fe and Te. Not necessarily in that order (:

I just realised those are all the J functions, lol. Co-incidence?

 

[crippli]

However, a few hundred years ago in Western countries, if you were smart, you would be in theology. So back then, the NTs were all very religious.

Surely not all. I doubt people like Leonardo Davinci was religious. He seemed like a rational that accepted no truth unless it was verified and verifiable. I would think his faith was in logic, or else I find it difficult to comprehend that he could have achieved all that he did.

So I think there where rationals even then. Otherwise I agree with you, except the P notion of being more prone to religion. I think many NTs where religious. Or at least pretended to be religious. Or else they would probably be burned as heretics.

 

[ElvenVeil]

given that 3/4 of the population is 'S' it would only make sense if the S type would be the dominant in any religious organization..

Without having seen any statistics on the subject, it would not surprise me if the 'F' type were more enclined to be religious, rather than their rational counterparts. .

 

[Architect]

It's not correct that the SP artisan types aren't religious, every ESFP I know is very religious (conservative or liberal religious), saying they wouldn't care is a shallow read of the generic type.

In my experience it's predominantly S dominated. Religion has the earmarks of S sensibility scattered throughout, but it is odd to me that the factual minded SJ types would take to it so much. Certainly they do for the community, and the attempt to control the rest of us, but why are they at once highly factual and reality oriented, and they believe in such fairy stories?

Otherwise there are a scattering of NF's, and very few NT's.

 

[scorpiomover]

Surely not all.

It's impossible to take the idea that all NTs were religious as literally literal, when there are NTs today who are not, and therefore being NT does not make it physically impossible to be non-religious.

I doubt people like Leonardo Davinci was religious.

I thought you might be right. So I tried to search for quotes by Da Vinci, on the matter of religion, either pro or anti. Most of his quotes don't seem to reflect on religion that much at all. But this does:

I have offended God and mankind because my work didn't reach the quality it should have.
Leonardo da Vinci

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/l/leonardo_da_vinci.html

He may not have been the most avid of church-goers. But it strikes me that in some way or another, he would have regarded himself as religious.

He seemed like a rational that accepted no truth unless it was verified and verifiable. I would think his faith was in logic, or else I find it difficult to comprehend that he could have achieved all that he did.

It depends on what you mean by "rational".

Rational can refer to the epistemological philosophy of rationalism.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/rationalism-empiricism/

It can also refer to a set of cultural values.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/atheism/types/rationalism.shtml

The former is about methods of cognitive deduction. It tends to be associated with religious people like Newton.

The latter is about cultural values, lifestyle choices, who your friends are, what career you have, etc. It tends to be associated with atheists like Richard Dawkins. They tend to be empiricists.

So in reality, cultural rationals and epistemological rationals tend to be mutually exclusive. There are some of each, but very few of both.

So I think there where rationals even then.

There were a lot of epistemological rationals in the past. There were a few cultural rationals as well. Not many, but some, like Galileo.

Otherwise I agree with you, except the P notion of being more prone to religion. I think many NTs where religious. Or at least pretended to be religious. Or else they would probably be burned has heretics.

I can see where you might think that. There is a tendency to get confused about rationalism, and to think that because cultural rationalism calls itself by the same name as epistemological rationalism, that the 2 are connected, because the same word means 2 entirely different things.

Take Newton, for example. He spent much of his spare time studying the Bible, by choice.

Boyle, for example, chose to be extremely religious as well.

J. J. Thomson, the discoverer of the electron, and who won a Nobel laureate in Physics, was extremely religious. He used to have a punishing schedule of study. But even so, he used to spend hours praying in church every day.

When we look at the scientists who made the big discoveries, it seems to me that either they really didn't care that much about religion, or were extremely religious, even for their time.

 

[Words]

What james said.

It's not correct that the SP artisan types aren't religious, every ESFP I know is very religious (conservative or liberal religious), saying they wouldn't care is a shallow read of the generic type.

Er, not in theory nor in my own observation. Though we're talking about generalities, your conclusion is either a matter of the environment, chance, or a mistype.

In my experience it's predominantly S dominated. Religion has the earmarks of S sensibility scattered throughout, but it is odd to me that the factual minded SJ types would take to it so much. Certainly they do for the community, and the attempt to control the rest of us, but why are they at once highly factual and reality oriented, and they believe in such fairy stories?

Si =/= facts. Details, yes. The key thing about SJ's is that their sensory memory is "introverted." This means that it isn't actually "factual", it's subjective. Now Se, Se is more "factual" or rather "impartial."

 

[Vrecknidj]

People believe in stuff for different reason and I don't think you can pin it down on one type.

Yes.

Dave

 

[Vrecknidj]

Aquinas said something roughly equivalent to this: "To be Christian is the same as to be rational." Now, I understand that this sort of phrase is out of style these days, but, for at least 2000 years, ending only VERY recently, most of the people in the world who were educated were also religious.

Just something to consider.

 

[SkyWalker]

It's always the damn S-es... they are a bunch of sheep j/k

 

[Moocow]

I only know a few SJs that really follow a religion, and it's kind of passive. They just follow the procedures but don't talk about it much.

From what I've seen, NFs tend to take religion more seriously and can hold extreme views or actions, although many of the NFs I know aren't really into organized religions as much as their own individual interpretations.

 

[darude11]

I have father, which is religious. Even more than me.

I believe too.

Therefore it makes no sense for me. I mean - almost all sensors I've met (in school e. g.) are atheistic. But it is maybe because they "Want to stay cool".

 

[SkyWalker]

I have father, which is religious. Even more than me.

I believe too.

Therefore it makes no sense for me. I mean - almost all sensors I've met (in school e. g.) are atheistic. But it is maybe because they "Want to stay cool".

S-es simply follow the current hype

 

[dialectical_stew]

Surely not all. I doubt people like Leonardo Davinci was religious. He seemed like a rational that accepted no truth unless it was verified and verifiable. I would think his faith was in logic, or else I find it difficult to comprehend that he could have achieved all that he did.

So I think there where rationals even then. Otherwise I agree with you, except the P notion of being more prone to religion. I think many NTs where religious. Or at least pretended to be religious. Or else they would probably be burned as heretics.

I agree. Writing/speaking/etc in ways not to disturb the religious status quo (I'll use David Hume as an example) while still satirizing and ripping said establishment to shreds is what I see with many a famous INTP. I'm sure there are exceptions, but that's how I view the type's relationship with religion...merely another tool.

 

[darude11]

S-es simply follow the current hype

Oops, I forgot to mention, that my father is S.
But, obviously, it have no point after all... I mean - That is IMO dumb to divide them like that. It is about what do they percieve. Yes, maybe the N's can appear more faithful, because of their theoretizing/gathering informations from non-sensorical sources. But! It is only like comparing monk to the christian. They both can believe at the same God, but Monk might say more "inteligent" words about him, while christian (I don't say, that all christians are S's and all monks N's, it is just stereotype example) is believing simply at God, and not much thinking about it.

 

[Jennywocky]

I have a great book (buried in a box in my basement no doubt) exploring typical approach to religion/spirituality by all 16 types/main functions. I think this is the new version, I have the older edition:

http://www.amazon.com/Soultypes-Mat...1466/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311529868&sr=8-1


Then again, if you'd enjoy some lighter, more humorous reading, you can just go here:
http://player2000gi.host-ed.net/religion_and_type.htm

 

[scorpiomover]

Just wanted to add in this correction to what I wrote. Thanks, Artsu Tharaz and Puffy.

What I have observed, is that when looking at the majority ethnicities of Western countries at the moment, NPs seem to lean much heavier towards theism, than NJs.

Really? Can you explain how you came to this conclusion?

A lot of atheists have quoted stats many times, that showed that scientists lean heavily towards atheism. I looked the stats up. Turns out, that when it comes to biologists, psychologists, and physicists are around 70% atheist, while mathematicians are around 50% atheist. INTJ is often called the Scientist. Descriptions for INTPs usually list jobs that include mathematician. Ergo, INTJs are more likely to be atheists than INTPs.

However, on reflection, it might be that I was a little hasty in saying that. It might be, for instance, that this difference is only for INTs who are in academia. It might be different for NJs. It might be different for ENPs. It might only apply to academica.

 

[RobdoR]

First of all, religious people are not anti-science. Most Christians are just anti-evolution, which is a very small part of science. It is true that too many people do not question events and just make up a supernatural reason for them, but I think it's because mainstream Christian churches are made to keep out any new ideas. Many religious people don't even know what they believe. They are just looking for a simple answer to their confusing lives. Maybe 1% of christians have actually read the bible, so who knows where they get their wacko beliefs.

I think most religious institutions are dominated by SJ's and NF's. Jameslikespie did a good nutshell generalization. I think the SJ's often enjoy organized religion for the security and sense of belonging. I think the ones who take most seriously are NF's. Both of these types will accept doctrine on authority without having to scrutinize it to extremes.

I think this is part of why non-religious NT's write off religious people as ignorant and deniers of reality. As a religious NT myself, it's always refreshing when I find someone who actually has logical answers to tough questions, or will at least be open to debate.

It's always fun to shatter my INFJ wife's doctrinal foundations. It's a fun weekly occurrence. And we both end up better for it.