Religion and Irony

[Cognisant]

Most religious people seem to be immune to irony, but is that because they're religious or are they religious because they cannot perceive irony?

What if there was a test for this, 100 questions regarding ironic and unironic situations/speech, the questions have nothing to do with religion.

What if it turned out that there's certain people who don't get irony, they're not stupid, they can understand the concept, it's just not something they're predisposed to be aware of.

What if the predisposition for irony was genetic? What if it could be screened for and even potentially added or removed before birth?

This would make a great book

 

[Black Rose]

Their brains are immune to cognitive dissonance.

In their minds, contradictions don't exist, so no dissonance exists to be resolved.

 

[Hadoblado]

Is this just personal experience or...?

 

[onesteptwostep]

If you digest too much Fe, do you become irony..?

 

[Cognisant]

Is this just personal experience or...?

It's just an observation, I could be wrong.

 

[computerhxr]

That would be Autism. Dissonance is disease, which is evil.

 

[Pizzabeak]

Concrete examples? Define religion. Is it fundamentalist Christians? Their views overall tend to be literal interpretations of the Holy Word. The King James version of the Bible tends to rhyme more lines.

 

[Hadoblado]

I don't really see any of this as being ironic.

Behead Islam: photoshopped
Jesus praying: admittedly nonsensical but I don't really see the irony.
Crossbasher: is just a doublestandard that is inherent in the beliefs of a whole bunch of people.

They're all works of fiction.

I don't like this sort of thinking where you paint a whole category of people with such a broad brush without evidence. You're basically the last person I'd ask for an objective perspective on the trends in the traits of the religious because you have such a hate-on for them.

 

[Cognisant]

I am aware of and openly acknowledge my lack of objectivity.

I'm sure there are a lot of genuinely nice religious people, people who preach peace and love and practice what they preach, I can acknowledge that.

 

[Hadoblado]

Yeah but I'm not saying they're nice. I'm saying they probably understand irony to a similar degree to atheists. All these differences between demographics tend to be waaaay exaggerated.

Even this conversation between us, we're not agreeing on what irony is. The sum of not understanding irony between us is >0.

 

[Cognisant]

I'm torn between telling you I was shitposting and defending this hill to the death for shits'n'giggles.

 

[Existence]

>What if the predisposition for irony was genetic? What if it could be screened for and even potentially added or removed before birth?

I think it's unwise to meddle too much with the genes of humans... who knows what the consequences will be? If it becomes alright to meddle in one area, then what about it becoming alright to meddle in other areas? What happens, if the consequences of meddling in that other area have more negative effects?

 

[Gyppo]

Imo, any cartoon strip where they have to write what the person is on their t shirt is painfully shit

 

[Gyppo]

But tbf when i raised the jesus thing when i was younger twas all cleared up. Jesus is our lord and god is our father. Lord as in alan sugar i spose

 

[Gyppo]

May as well shut down the 3rd thing. The people who say islam is a religion of peace aren't the same ones who want to behead people. Amazing, isn't it?

 

[Cognisant]

Imo, any cartoon strip where they have to write what the person is on their t shirt is painfully shit

Granted it's not necessary but I don't see how it detracts from either the humor or the point.

I think your post is shit and I'll tell you why, by calling something shit but not explaining why whatever property of that thing makes it shit you're being critical without adding anything constructive to the discussion, ergo your post is of substandard (i.e. shit) quality.

May as well shut down the 3rd thing. The people who say islam is a religion of peace aren't the same ones who want to behead people. Amazing, isn't it?

Better.

 

[Gyppo]

Imo, any cartoon strip where they have to write what the person is on their t shirt is painfully shit

Granted it's not necessary but I don't see how it detracts from either the humor or the point.

I think your post is shit and I'll tell you why, by calling something shit but not explaining why whatever property of that thing makes it shit you're being critical without adding anything constructive to the discussion, ergo your post is of substandard (i.e. shit) quality.

Fine with that, mate.

 

[Gyppo]

What about my other posts? Oh i see, nvm

 

[Cognisant]

But tbf when i raised the jesus thing when i was younger twas all cleared up. Jesus is our lord and god is our father. Lord as in alan sugar i spose

I accept your baseless premise (sarcasm)
Why should I care who Alan Sugar is?

May as well shut down the 3rd thing. The people who say islam is a religion of peace aren't the same ones who want to behead people. Amazing, isn't it?

The moderates enable the extremists.

If a religion's fundamentalists are murderous assholes what does that imply about the fundamentals of that religion?

Are people generally good because of or in spite of religion?
Lets consult the text on how to treat your slaves to find out.

 

[Gyppo]

But tbf when i raised the jesus thing when i was younger twas all cleared up. Jesus is our lord and god is our father. Lord as in alan sugar i spose

I accept your baseless premise (sarcasm)
Why should I care who Alan Sugar is?

May as well shut down the 3rd thing. The people who say islam is a religion of peace aren't the same ones who want to behead people. Amazing, isn't it?

The moderates enable the extremists.

If a religion's fundamentalists are murderous assholes what does that imply about the fundamentals of that religion?

Are people generally good because of or in spite of religion?
Lets consult the text on how to treat your slaves to find out.

I wasn't arguing until the 3rd point. And i don't care about alan sugar either. It's just that on the apprentice ppl call him lord sugar ennit blad (tho rly, it is upsetting u dont care about him ). I don't give a shit about good and bad, they don't actually exist. Just sayin, some people are pacifists, ppl who call their worldview peaceful are generally gonna fall into the pacifist group. However, sexism clearly pervades all of islam innnit

 

[Gyppo]

Ofc religions are built on the idea of taking resources from ppl and keepin em subservient, just like all civilisation. I'm really not arguing for them dude

 

[Gyppo]

I'm glad cognisant told me he was being sarcastic ennit blad. I aint know nothin about no god but i sure as charlotte am immune to irony.
Btw, my baseless premise was sarcasm too. I genuinely raised that point to a priest and the response was a confused jabbering that jesus is the lord, god the father. Hence, or ergo, if it'd please you so, my post served as anecdotal evidence to back up the christian dissonance immunity theory

 

[ZenRaiden]

Its not just religion though. Its a belief as a whole. A lot of people believe a lot of nonsensical stuff and atheist included. The irony is that a lot of people act on these beliefs as if they are facts. Often times if you confront them with this observation they might genuinly think you are the stupid one.

 

[lolzcry]

People just don't like to be wrong and nobody can think everything thoroughly, therein lies the problem. This is not specific to religious folk and is the general nature of people.

 

[Cognisant]

If your math teacher asks you to solve an equation and you make a mistake in the order of operations how does it benefit you to stand by that answer?

There are a lot of religious people who stand by their religion in spite of their education and the valid criticisms levied against them, people whose beliefs are quite simply irrational and if you ask them they will openly admit that they put their faith before reason.

That's not just making a mistake, that's willful ignorance.

 

[lolzcry]

As I said, people generally dont like accepting they are wrong even if they might in all actuality realize this. Also most people don't want to have a logically sound reason to everything they do, religion specifically either has too many emotional attachments for them to drop or they were raised in one and just don't want to accept the fact that what they were told is wrong.

 

[lolzcry]

Besides many people find it easier to live thinking that someone somewhere is watching over them or that people who have done them wrong will eventually be punished.

 

[Pizzabeak]

How about I go out on a limb and say what happens after death is probably something that can’t be predicted.

 

[Pizzabeak]

Too bad it’s all just people arguing from one side of the subject, and they’re unable to grasp both viewpoints.

 

[Cognisant]

Nobody likes to be wrong, when a math teacher asks a student to give their answer out loud for everyone to hear do you think they're unaware of what might happen as if it hasn't happened in their classroom a thousand times before?

Do you think people have the right to be wrong, to stand by their religion despite its flaws and inconsistencies out of bad faith?

In a world where democracy rules and the voice of the people is the ultimate authority can we afford to risk it all just to protect people from embarrassment?

Besides many people find it easier to live thinking that someone somewhere is watching over them or that people who have done them wrong will eventually be punished.

Do you know what "god is good" actually means?
Consider the problem of evil clearly god cannot be good otherwise god wouldn't be "The God", the hypocrisy couldn't be more blatant, but that's not what Christians mean by "good". Rather when Christians say god is good what they're really saying is that he is good for them, that he is good because he is their god and they are his people. It's like if Superman turned evil and took over the world by force, there's a certain kind of despicable person who would wear his symbol and serve in his name for both protection from him and to inspire fear in others, a boot-licker who revels in their servitude.

Besides many people find it easier to live thinking that someone somewhere is watching over them or that people who have done them wrong will eventually be punished.

How about I go out on a limb and say what happens after death is probably something that can’t be predicted.

It's called decomposition and its well understood.

Too bad it’s all just people arguing from one side of the subject, and they’re unable to grasp both viewpoints.

It's too bad you don't grasp either.

 

[lolzcry]

I dont think that people have a 'right' to be wrong, just that they can believe what they want to. I dont like religion either and this has frustated me to no end but bear in mind that its their life and we cannot force our beliefs onto others even if theirs might be totally inconsistent and paradoxical. In the end we can never really know how a person thinks and I understand your anger as I myself have felt it on countless occasions but I have come to terms with this fact. My peers all have issues of varying degrees of me not having morals or believing in 'Gods' teachings and it gets very hypocritical at times. I believe that people at the minimum should be allowed to choose how to live but, be made wary of the consequences because even if people follow the same thing, something such as 'good' is entirely subjective as morality is not really based on logic but how you 'feel' about something, as such, there is no 'right' way to live, everybody has their own reasons about how life should be lived. I would say that they should be made aware of the consequences for their actions, but be given the frredom to make their own choices. If there were laws about everything, it would be a tad too stifling, no?
This is why I dont like when any opinion is propagated, I like to believe that humanity has evolved enough that if everybody was given the oppurtunity to think for themselves, we would be far better off.

 

[ZenRaiden]

There are many ways to believe and practice religion and yes I have seen and talked to a lot of religious people that are kind of very literal about it. They kind of take the whole religion they have been indoctrinated into for granted and probably have very little incentives to go beyond and be skeptical. When you are a child you kind of have no mental tools to size up the stuff older people are telling you. When you are older you kind of either continue or just drop the whole religion thing.

I think it would kind of be cool if there was polytheism sort of like greeks had or romans or egyptians. I like those gods and the way they acted. I think in India its still a thing.
I mean come on god that sanctifies drinking, sexying and dancing WOOOW parttyyyyy!
I hate parties though, but nevertheless.

 

[lolzcry]

We do have polytheism but are way too conservative for any of that other stuff. Also india has multiple religions

 

[lolzcry]

Some of them might have the Gods you want

 

[ZenRaiden]

Some of them might have the Gods you want

Oh so that is an indian flag lol cool. I know few Indians. I know there is lot of religions.
Ill probably look up polytheism on the internet. Plenty of time before I go to work again.

 

[lolzcry]

The colours are a bit off... but close enough

 

[Black Rose]

I may be wrong about Gods existence but I can't live without her presence in my life.

 

[Pizzabeak]

It's too bad you don't grasp either.

Oh

 

[Cognisant]

I dont like religion either and this has frustated me to no end but bear in mind that its their life and we cannot force our beliefs onto others even if theirs might be totally inconsistent and paradoxical.

Why not? You know what I mean, you understand nihilism as I do, why fetter ourselves with the "live and let live" ideals of secularism when we ourselves are shown no such courtesy? We have nothing to prove, virtue signalling is their game and it's clearly rigged, no theist will ever show appreciation for your tolerance only contempt for you when you ask them to show tolerance to others.

The secular majority abides the theistic minorities not out of generosity but rather fear, complacency and a misguided sense of self righteousness, it's not noble it's irresponsible.

 

[Cognisant]

Before anyone starts I am quite well aware of how Ned turns out.

Being disciplined was at most a contributing factor, personally I blame yet further bad parenting from his parent's after being beat-nicks fell out of style.

 

[lolzcry]

Why not? You know what I mean, you understand nihilism as I do, why fetter ourselves with the "live and let live" ideals of secularism when we ourselves are shown no such courtesy? We have nothing to prove, virtue signalling is their game and it's clearly rigged, no theist will ever show appreciation for your tolerance only contempt for you when you ask them to show tolerance to others.

I get the feeling that you might be misunderstanding my point here, we can show them the consequences of their actions towards society and punish them by the way of laws, but we cannot and should not force them to believe something they do not want to. Yes, if what they believe has adverse affects to society we have to tell them to stop but we cannot do so without reason by just saying 'Hey, your beliefs are utter crap, so I want you to get lost and stop spreading more idiocracy as there is already too much to cope with', this does not help, will turn people into martyrs and make them fight back harder. Trust me I know. The only two ways you can convince people are by brainwashing them or by letting them choose what you propose. The first one is already tried and tested, you can read it up anywhere.. oh wait that is what we are discussing here.

 

[Cognisant]

You don't need to silence them by force a few subtle policy changes can make the industry of religion a lot less profitable.

A few propaganda campaigns that aren't directly opposing religion but undermine it by supporting causes that religion opposes can do a lot of damage to their credibility.

No need to be so heavy handed, a light pressure is sufficient. It may never be outright eradicated, it doesn't need to be.

 

[lolzcry]

I would say that they should be made aware of the consequences for their actions, but be given the frredom to make their own choices.

And you ended up repeating what I said

 

[lolzcry]

Yes, if what they believe has adverse affects to society we have to tell them to stop but we cannot do so without reason

I never mentioned the use of force or otherwise, so essentially both of us are in agreement

 

[Black Rose]

I do not think you can understand the situation the begin with unless you have/had a connection with God. And another reason comes from misunderstanding what God is. In my personal experience, God's essence is love. That sounds vague but I felt love before so I assume everyone else has as a common experience. It can be overwhelming at times as it feels like the whole universe is God representing herself to me. Even at my lowest point I still know she is there because of the connection I have. It is always there so I never forget it.

I know some people are annoying when it comes to proselytizing but it usually comes with the baggage of other beliefs unrelated to connection with God. 7-day creation, Noah's flood, etc. I find that all unnecessary.

I feel connected to a force outside myself that is pure radiant love. That is not something I attache a dogma too. but it is part of what the situation is about. People attach dogma to God without thinking about it. That is the real problem. The God I relate to is free of this.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I do not think you can understand the situation the begin with unless you have/had a connection with God. And another reason comes from misunderstanding what God is. In my personal experience, God's essence is love. That sounds vague but I felt love before so I assume everyone else has as a common experience. It can be overwhelming at times as it feels like the whole universe is God representing herself to me. Even at my lowest point I still know she is there because of the connection I have. It is always there so I never forget it.

I know some people are annoying when it comes to proselytizing but it usually comes with the baggage of other beliefs unrelated to connection with God. 7-day creation, Noah's flood, etc. I find that all unnecessary.

I feel connected to a force outside myself that is pure radiant love. That is not something I attache a dogma too. but it is part of what the situation is about. People attach dogma to God without thinking about it. That is the real problem. The God I relate to is free of this.

Ill give you that. I think its important part of human developement to be able to think out side one self, and not just about self. That being said I think its little tricky. Lot of people talk about love like hippies, but then when it comes to action there is very little left of it.
I think talking about love and spirituality is superficial thing anyhow. I think those things have to be expressed through life and action.

 

[Marbles]

Jews have a highly developed sense of irony. I guess 4000 years of persecution will do that to you.