Real Talk with the Gopher

[Ex-User (9086)]

Well I didn't construct the post properly because I had to go and I sent however little there was to have some initial response.

I am not INFP, if we were to look at socionics then I am INTP with INFP tendencies, however my friend is an INFP with INTP tendencies and I was referring to him when I meant "another INFP", that might have been misleading.

No but seriously, I'm not entirely sure what you asked but I'll try and answer anyway.

Another INFP assuming you are one? Constructivity and openness in regards to the project or ideas for the project?

In the area of project realisation as well as ideas.

Also assuming project without clear task allocation means you know what to do but not who should do it? Instead of you know generally what area you could make the project about but not sure what exactly.

Yes, I have done the initial research and I know the amount of work that has to be done and I know what should be done too. Problems arise when one of us tries to explain the idea to the other or we need to divide who does what.

For example I hear this friend hint an idea he has, this might be a good idea, however he usually says that this might be difficult to explain and then proceeds with his explanation that either is logical or else he gives me his explanation and I am not quite sure about some parts and he ends saying that he will have to find better words to explain it.

In the second outcome I end up getting a list of things that are impossible, bad, should not be done, etc. It is as if his creation of ideas relied solely on Ne and I would describe it as selecting a set of ideas, things->flowers->cornflowers and when I then ask about the particular execution of this set of things then I hear that it is either: hard, impossible, will be done later when he is prepared.

On the other hand I can keep up when it comes to brainstorming and pointing out various ideas, but I later decide after I have considered my options and I have expanded upon the initial assumptions. With this I approach our discussions and it is usually my ideas that are more developed that are selected after discussing them, which I find not that constructive and I would like him to somehow include some of his own ideas that are plenty but vague.

"Constructivity" and openness shouldn't be so much a problem assuming your relationship with the other INFP is solid. I think the main issue is making a clear task allocation. If you need construct and openness to create the task allocation simply try to focus on the Ne, Te and Si of the INFP. The Ne is only used if you need to know what needs to be done. Query the other INFP about what they have done in the past and see if it is similar to what needs to be done now and then use Te to allocate everyone to the task they can use best.

That's what I have done and it seems very useful. We have been collaborating on small things for several years now and it is the first major thing that we have decided to complete.

The other thing I try to achieve is to increase his sense of self-worth and motivation. I am the type of person that thinks about huge areas and it usually is far fetched to be realised initially, however I wouldn't like him to shy out of any task that has more difficulty and I would like him to work with more confidence in the feasibility of our ideas.

 

[The Gopher]

Not INFP cool, I didn't think you were however it confused me.

Well for the area of project realisation (assuming you need brainstorming) you need to be totally child like. Bounce ideas and theories come up with ridiculous stuff that is impossible and try to solve it get him bringing up ridiculous ideas... then once you are thinking in this fashion go at the problem you are trying to solve or thing you are trying to make. Thats more the brainstorming side of it though but just wanted to include it just incase.

Initial research is done. You know how much work needs to be done and what should be done. Perfect.

When it comes to explaining ideas see above in regards to brainstorming. You need to make sure no idea is too ridiculous or come up with silly ideas yourself to make him more comfortable opening up and communicating his thoughts. Create a anti-judgmental environment. (this links a bit to self worth that you talked about below)

You said his ideas are vague and undeveloped. I think this is because he is more focused on the initial stages of brainstorming. You either need to see potential in the vague idea and maybe help him develop it if that is a weak spot for him or encourage him to think more about that idea and see if it will work.

On a side note it may even be due to perfectionism or insecurity that he doesn't develop his ideas. He wants what he does to be perfect and thus as a vague idea there is no "fault". Although that might be a stretch.

So in other words look for the potential in his ideas and work through them.

However on to self worth and motivation. INFP's are often internally perfectionists. While my room can be messy and I may often default to a "it will do" mentality I am still a perfectionist mentally. He may be afraid of failing larger tasks or not doing it properly. He may shy away from harder tasks due to being overwhelmed by the amount of work required to make it perfect. His idealization of the end goal may be his undoing in that he doesn't believe he can achieve that. So maybe moderate the idealism just slightly (although don't crush it as it's a part of motivation if used to the right amount) So while it might be a slight self worth motivation it's more likely a perfectionist problem, where he knows he is not good enough to get perfection (because who is?) and that's why he doesn't start in the first place.

However I digress, motivating an INFP is actually pretty hard. Particularly from Fe style users. Intrinsic motivation comes almost entirely from inside and as an INFP this is the main style. Intrinsic motivation generally comes from things you enjoy and are passionate about so if he isn't passionate about the project you may have problems.

You can however help a bit with extrinsic motivation. Extrinsic is more like if I do well I get a good grade need to work to pay bill... the boring stuff. It's much harder for INFP's to be motivated by this and I'm sure INTP's have similar feelings. So the best way is to turn extrinsic into intrinsic. Such as if you have to do something like exercise do it in a location you like and enjoy being in. Annnyway digressing again, external motivation is unlikely to work but you can try to get him to be motivated to do the boring stuff by using some internal motivation.

Motivation is really hard for INFP's....

Hope that helps, and as always feel free to ask follow up questions if needed.

 

[Helvete]

No, unless you are into urolagnia.

But, Dr. Gopher... Is this good or bad advice?!

 

[The Gopher]

But, Dr. Gopher... Is this good or bad advice?!

Well you didn't specify a number and the default is 1. So good advice. Actually I forgot about my own system tbh.... Cav has been like the only person to do it right.

 

[Base groove]

Dr. Gopher [2],

Should I be a famous rock lead guitarist?

I am troubled because I feel as if that is the life for me.

 

[The Gopher]

To Cav. You have done all the right things and unfortunately there is little I can tell you to help your mother.

I mean there are some theories that encouraging depressed INTJ's to go out or undertake a project can help (although obviously not if stress is the issue) and another theory that says ENTP's can particularly help them by showing alternate views... However in this scenario you know best what you can and cannot do.

I think you realised this and that you needed to tell someone. So feel free to do that whenever. I won't talk about your own feelings unless you want me to however I hope things become better.

 

[The Gopher]

Dr. Gopher [2],

Should I be a famous rock lead guitarist?

I am troubled because I feel as if that is the life for me.

No! You should never fall to fame and glory, you must become a minor player in the rock guitar industry playing about peace and love in the American way. Then you can use your small influence to help change the world without giving up core values that would have allowed you to change the world even more. (and get rich)

If you feel troubled it's likely because while you feel it is the life you think of all the strife. The hatters and the tailors... all horrible people to work with.

 

[QuickTwist]

How do you stop those that wish to bring ruination to you?

 

[The Gopher]

How do you stop those that wish to bring ruination to you?

Several possibilities exist.

1. Eliminate them.
2. Be so nice and lovely they like you and don't bring ruination upon you. (my method :P)
3. Take away any power they have to bring ruination upon you.
4. Convince them otherwise, or become their friend.
5. Don't care about anything that happens.

If you require more methods...

6. Manipulate them into not ruining you.
7. Create a secret or non secret group to over power them.
8. Know everything about there plans usually utilizing said secret group and counteract it.

Plenty more methods exist but they are generally related to the first 5. For example 6,7,8 are related to 3 primarily.

 

[QuickTwist]

Ooo. Number three looks good lets talk about that.

So what is the first step toward doing this? What if you want to do it solo, not letting them know what you plan on doing granted they don't know what you know about what they plan to do/are doing.

IDK... perhaps an INTJ is better suited to answer this but the subject interests me thinking about the hypothetical if/then and you are available to answer questions so I thought I would give it a shot.

 

[The Gopher]

Yokay lets remove the flowery wording. (ok it wasn't that flowery but lets be consise)

The first step to removing power.
By yourself.
Not letting them know of your plans.
This person is plotting against you.
This person doesn't know you know that they are plotting against you.

Well the problem with this is very dependent on the situation and person plotting against you. I will assume you are an INTP. I mean I can only generalize without specifics, for it would change based on against a F type S type personality disorders power they have power you can access...

However in general first step is. Gain power yourself, look for their biggest weakness or something that will take their strength from them and gain the power to take it away or exploit it. For logical people who work alone use a group against them. Obviously you are a logical person who works alone in this scenario so watch for people using this attack on you. For people that manipulate groups gain the power to expose them to the group or turn the group against them. Now it all changes based on who you are and who they are but these are some examples.

There are many more steps obviously but first step is identify weakness in opponent/s. Second step is to consider your strengths/develop a strength to counter the weakness.

On and on it goes. Building up your strength or ability to make them lose there strength passively until you are strong enough to actively undermine trying not to reveal you are doing that. But it gives you the strength that if you mess up and they find out you can nuke them anyway.

Being their "friend" is one way to do this. Help them in ways that won't build them up but seems useful and "accidentally" undermine them. Although we leave these underhanded tactics to the INFJ's.

 

[Pizzabeak]

Is Fi more related to day dreaming than Ti?
Introberted sinking would apparently be more analytical with things and it could be obvious that someone is thinking or lost in thought, and can be described as pensive however subjective that description may be. Fi would then have more of a daydream like quality, it could look like they're "thinking" but they might not be analyzing enough. Some aspects of phenotypical traits/stereotypes can be included. There could be someone who you are 99% sure is intp... If someone walks in looking like Loki from the Avengers movie that person might be more infp, or at least some close alternative, but it would be vaguely understandable how intp for that person could be briefly considered.

 

[QuickTwist]

A satisfactory response. I think you laid that out very nicely. Of course one of the problems to pretending to be their friend is that you may end up enjoying their company which would make it very hard to "Take the power back." How do you pretend to be their friend while not getting emotionally attached?

All in all I think you are doing a great job with this thread. It has a certain texture to it that is very palatable. Please, continue.

 

[The Gopher]

A satisfactory response. I think you laid that out very nicely. Of course one of the problems to pretending to be their friend is that you may end up enjoying their company which would make it very hard to "Take the power back." How do you pretend to be their friend while not getting emotionally attached?

All in all I think you are doing a great job with this thread. It has a certain texture to it that is very palatable. Please, continue.

I'll get to pizza beak in a moment as he has a far harder question and I've just finished a day of moving and cleaning rooms.

Well if you hate them in the first place it shouldn't be too hard :P But then again. If you start to enjoy their company and they start enjoying you, that may very well be a solution in the first place.

However... if whatever reason you have to hate them or cut ties with them is not stronger than the friendship that may build up while pretending to be someones friend in order to hurt them. It is likely that the issue isn't a big deal. That said, some people have very strong connections with inferior Fe that just randomly build up. To these people I would consider a different tactic staying remote.

If you do wish to employ this tactic or parts of it still and you have problems with attaching onto people, then try being more an acquaintance.

Also thanks! I'll try and remain palatable.

 

[The Gopher]

Is Fi more related to day dreaming than Ti?
Introberted sinking would apparently be more analytical with things and it could be obvious that someone is thinking or lost in thought, and can be described as pensive however subjective that description may be. Fi would then have more of a daydream like quality, it could look like they're "thinking" but they might not be analyzing enough. Some aspects of phenotypical traits/stereotypes can be included. There could be someone who you are 99% sure is intp... If someone walks in looking like Loki from the Avengers movie that person might be more infp, or at least some close alternative, but it would be vaguely understandable how intp for that person could be briefly considered.

I'm going to break down the question as you didn't really ask one after the first.

Yes Fi is more "related" to day dreaming than Ti. Although both can spend hours in it. I know I do.

About introverted sinking, if you find yourself sinking while introverted aquire a life boat.

No but seriously I agree Ti is more pensive (although a vague description) however I would argue Te while thinking "introvertedly" is also pensive in some ways. So this is more related to the analytical work that is required. For example someone thinking about databases would be considered pensive just as someone daydreaming in an analytical way looks less like daydreaming and more like problem solving. (I wish I could daydream while looking like I'm doing work...)

This means the INTP would seem pensive more often in daydreaming as they are using Ne and Ti mainly although they would also sometimes be different if they were using more Ne, Fe.

So in general yeah, people with higher thinking functions seem more pensive and less "daydream like" even though they are still daydreaming whereas the F types seem more "daydream like". That said every type daydreams and I would link "daydream like" looks to Ne or N in general then Fi then F then Ti... and on and on.

You did lose me at the end I assume you were merely making statements or theories and no questions?