Reading the INTP

[juggernaut]

I realize there's been no shortage of postings regarding the affections or internal psychological reality of the INTP here, but what I'm wondering is whether any of you would be willing to share your thoughts on how to read the INTP's outward behavior. I'm an ENTJ (albeit one who often prefers her own company and has no desire to be in any sort of leadership position) and I'm constantly finding myself in the company of INTPs. I have a mild interest in one that might be teetering on something akin to romance (I say akin, and teetering, because I have little patience for romance as it is traditionally conceived), but after a year-and-a-half I still can't figure out why he bothers with me or how to read his behavior. We have amazing conversations, a great deal of overlap in interests, similar worldviews, and the man can make me laugh. I don't mind his need for space, as my own interests keep my schedule fairly full without him and I don't even mind the physical distance, but there are times when I can't help but wonder "wtf is this guy doing here with me?" He seems to be trying to make some attempt at what looks like affection lately...an attempt at an apology after a misunderstanding, making it known he wanted to attend an event in a series I regularly attend, and hanging around more...but I don't know if I'm just seeing stuff that isn't there. I, being the ENTJ that I am, am rather disconnected from the emotional states of others so I really don't know what to make of this. Any thoughts? (don't worry about sparing my feelings, as most of you know the ENTJ isn't a particularly sensitive creature)

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Without more details, I can only say that he seems to be making an attempt at something more than just freindship. Actually it sounds as if he is actually making an effort!

That's more than most of us are willing to do on our own.

More details would be helpful though.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

There have been some other good threads about girls trying to read INTPs who might be interested in them.... I may dig them up.

We have difficulty giving direct compliments when they aren't absolutely deserved. It just feels too formal or brash or something for us to do. And even when they are deserved, we often feel that it's obvious and there's no need to say/repeat it.

So our affections and compliments come and go like ninjas. We slip them in really subtley, because we're scared to do anymore!

But um yeah. We get really good at showing a blank face to the world, and that probably includes you.

Someone posted how INTPs will use "poses". They recognize a common relaxed & neutral stance that other people are taking, and they consciously adopt it! (Where other people might have just been subconsciously leaning against a wall or leaning back with arms folded.) When our Ti-Si axis is overacting (meaning we're overanalyzing) then we'll do this.

So: If your INTP is being quieter and has taken an intentially quiet, neutral relaxed still pose then it means that he's probably thinking really really hard.

But this is just the start- some of the heavyweights will come in and elaborate.
edit//

More details would be helpful though.

IB you just like gossip :-P

 

[Dissident]

He seems to be trying to make some attempt at what looks like affection lately...an attempt at an apology after a misunderstanding, making it known he wanted to attend an event in a series I regularly attend, and hanging around more...but I don't know if I'm just seeing stuff that isn't there.

I think there is a decent chance that those feeble, awkward signs are in fact massive, audacious efforts of the guy to try showing you that he is interested. Yep, we can be that inept.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

edit// IB you just like gossip :-P

I've been figured out!

 

[Black Pat]

I think there is a decent chance that those feeble, awkward signs are in fact massive, audacious efforts of the guy to try showing you that he is interested. Yep, we can be that inept.

I agree entirely, if by "decent chance" you mean "inexorable fact". This dude likes you. Oooooooo! Take it to the bank.

 

[The Fury]

It does seem like that he has a definate interest in you. If you want to pursue a romantic relationship with him you may need to be the one to tell him how you feel about him. Don't worry too much about insulting his masculinity, INTPs are often relieved when they don't have to take the first step in emotional matters. Also don't take his unemotional manner as an insult to you. He might feel very deeply about you but just doesn't know how to express it.

 

[truthseeker72]

It does seem like that he has a definate interest in you. If you want to pursue a romantic relationship with him you may need to be the one to tell him how you feel about him. Don't worry too much about insulting his masculinity, INTPs are often relieved when they don't have to take the first step in emotional matters. Also don't take his unemotional manner as an insult to you. He might feel very deeply about you but just doesn't know how to express it.

I agree that this INTP man wants more than just friendship with you. His recent actions indicate that he's "testing the waters." Fury also accurately described INTP's attitudes about dating. INTP men generally do not care about who is "supposed to" make the first move. Instead, we crave emotional harmony with our mates, however that is achieved. While we're capable of expressing emotions, it does not come as naturally to us as expressing our thoughts and ideas.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Honesty is the best policy, just sit him down (tie him down if you must) and just discuss the situation in a calm, rational manner. Also considering most INTPs are autistic to some degree the "hug & hold on" could work, the idea being that you force him through being uncomfortable in one quick burst.

Of course I just like messing with people, so take this advice with a grain of salt.

 

[Ermine]

The fact that he's shared so much with you in the way of interests, views, etc is a big sign that he really likes you. And he'll probably need your help if you want him to take things further. From what you've described, it seems he's taken a lot more initiative than usual. (I don't know if this is an INTP thing or not but I end up avoiding those I attracted to because it's so uncomfortable and I don't know what to do.) Generally INTPs aren't too good with taking initiative, so make it easy for him to do that, or make the move yourself. And be frank. I'm sure you already are, but that would be a huge relief.

Also, this may be hard from an extroverted perspective, but don't treat lack of words or a reaction as a bad sign. Very important.

 

[dwags222]

i'd say just ask him. best way to deal with intp's.

 

[Parodyofme]

INTPs are often relieved when they don't have to take the first step...

That says it all! You're the extrovert, he's the introvert, you gotta ask him. Good luck and let us know!!!

 

[juggernaut]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. We had a really nice evening (as usual), but I suspect I may just be too (emotionally) retarded myself to be of any great use to this man. We spent ten hours together and talked for so long that I would be perfectly happy to not have to speak to anyone for the next several days. Things generally seem to go like this for us. My concern is that he just doesn't have the stamina for these bouts and that every time I'm truly frank with him I run the risk of running him off. There are so many things that I genuinely like (like counts for a lot more than want or love with me) about this person, but he has set up a reality for himself that just makes intimacy extremely difficult. I'm basically fine with that, but I just don't like worrying that if I ask the wrong question or point out a flaw in some line of reasoning, I run the risk of losing the companionship altogether. I've never mastered the art of deception (or even diplomacy) and while this makes for incredibly easy and clear conversations on most topics, when we get to him (as a topic) that INTP silence/fidgeting/darty-eye business invariably makes proceeding next to impossible.

 

[grey matters]

Patience, my dear, patience.

 

[Thaklaar]

I've never mastered the art of deception (or even diplomacy) and while this makes for incredibly easy and clear conversations on most topics, when we get to him (as a topic) that INTP silence/fidgeting/darty-eye business invariably makes proceeding next to impossible.

Now, I think that's your problem. If you ask him how he feels, that's just going to scare and confuse him as he probably isn't sure. You need to tell him how you feel, it's his uncertainty about that that's making him hold back. And I'm totally not speaking from long experience, I've never experienced anything like what you're describing from his point of view many times before.

 

[truthseeker72]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. We had a really nice evening (as usual), but I suspect I may just be too (emotionally) retarded myself to be of any great use to this man. We spent ten hours together and talked for so long that I would be perfectly happy to not have to speak to anyone for the next several days. Things generally seem to go like this for us. My concern is that he just doesn't have the stamina for these bouts and that every time I'm truly frank with him I run the risk of running him off. There are so many things that I genuinely like (like counts for a lot more than want or love with me) about this person, but he has set up a reality for himself that just makes intimacy extremely difficult. I'm basically fine with that, but I just don't like worrying that if I ask the wrong question or point out a flaw in some line of reasoning, I run the risk of losing the companionship altogether. I've never mastered the art of deception (or even diplomacy) and while this makes for incredibly easy and clear conversations on most topics, when we get to him (as a topic) that INTP silence/fidgeting/darty-eye business invariably makes proceeding next to impossible.

.
Honestly, I don't know what more you can demand in terms of compatibility. For any introvert to talk comfortably for several hours is quite a feat. This means that you've allowed him to express himself. Very few people can manage this with an INTP. Stop meandering and go for it!

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Isn't it ironic that we are all giving advice that as INTPs we have trouble following ourselves.

 

[juggernaut]

I think part of the problem is that I'm not altogether sure what "going for it" even entails. I may be an E, but I'm not a strong E and I'm female so I've never actually pursued a male. Also, I don't have squishy, gushy feelings for this man so I don't really know what "coming clean" would look like (I know he's already aware that I value you him as person very highly). He's says he wants me to be honest with him, but then seems wounded when I am. I made the mistake of telling him, honestly, what I thought of an interesting label he uses in describing himself ("schizoid") and he seemed hurt by bluntness of my response. Is it necessary to always agree or say nothing if you find the INTP's position untenable? How much couching of one's words is necessary? I really don't want him to change and I certainly don't want to hurt him, but I also don't want to lie or have to clam up if I think that he's not being honest with me or himself. I know there's this general consensus out there that every ENTJ wants to bully everyone around them and take over the world, but I just want to figure out how to deal with one not-so-little INTP in a way that will be beneficial to both of us. I know this is probably starting to bore some of you, but this has been dragging on for the better part of a year-and-a-half and I still seem to be utterly clueless, so again thanks for bearing with me and what I'm sure looks like a lot of silliness.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

I think I mentioned using a Net-gun & Prozac somewhere else on his forum.

Just trust me

 

[truthseeker72]

I think part of the problem is that I'm not altogether sure what "going for it" even entails. I may be an E, but I'm not a strong E and I'm female so I've never actually pursued a male. Also, I don't have squishy, gushy feelings for this man so I don't really know what "coming clean" would look like (I know he's already aware that I value you him as person very highly). He's says he wants me to be honest with him, but then seems wounded when I am. I made the mistake of telling him, honestly, what I thought of an interesting label he uses in describing himself ("schizoid") and he seemed hurt by bluntness of my response. Is it necessary to always agree or say nothing if you find the INTP's position untenable? How much couching of one's words is necessary? I really don't want him to change and I certainly don't want to hurt him, but I also don't want to lie or have to clam up if I think that he's not being honest with me or himself. I know there's this general consensus out there that every ENTJ wants to bully everyone around them and take over the world, but I just want to figure out how to deal with one not-so-little INTP in a way that will be beneficial to both of us. I know this is probably starting to bore some of you, but this has been dragging on for the better part of a year-and-a-hal mealf and I still seem to be utterly clueless, so again thanks for bearing with me and what I'm sure looks like a lot of silliness.

Well, "going for it" means seeking whatever you're after. It may be simply be an explanation from him as to how he feels about you, or something less direct, like wondering out loud what it would like to be a couple. What is the worst that can happen? Also, if you really do want to establish a relationship with this man, you have to suspend any any preconceived notions you may have about the man being the pursuer. INTP's , in general, do not pay much attention to societal expectations.

 

[chocolate]

All I can say about this thread is: Wow.

(thanks juggernaut for starting it, I'm really enjoying reading it).

I'm sort of in your situation but it's been more like 6 months. He's invited me out a few times, and...that's it. I've all but given up, I just figure well he's clearly not interested and I don't want to make a fool of myself. I don't care so much about being a fool in front of others but I really respect this guy and really care about making a fool of myself in front of him! I think he'd think "what an idiot, couldn't she tell I wasn't into her at all?". The weird thing is, I feel like we are very similar deep down, there's a familiarity there even though we're pretty distant.

Well, as you can see, I have nothing to offer you other than support sorry Good luck with everything...

 

[cheese]

Choc:
The weird thing is, I feel like we are very similar deep down, there's a familiarity there
That's how I feel about a situation with another Thinker, but he's S not N and that's Not Done.

How much do you talk to your INTP? Perhaps you are simply not connected enough for him to venture bolder attempts.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

"what an idiot, couldn't she tell I wasn't into her at all?".

I doubt that he would think your an idiot, at least not for showing an interest in him.
INTPs are mostly narcissistic or insecure.

Normal just isn't an option.

 

[The Fury]

"what an idiot, couldn't she tell I wasn't into her at all?".

I doubt that he would think your an idiot, at least not for showing an interest in him.
INTPs are mostly narcissistic or insecure.

Normal just isn't an option.

INTPs may be somewhat insecure but we're definitely not narcissistic. All humans are some bit conceited but I don't see that trend on this form. Perhaps you're speaking too much for yourself there.

Or were you possibly being sarcastic.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

A bit of both, I value unreasonably accurate introspection,
so as a result I'm hypocritical narcissist which oddly enough is even worse.

Here begins my downward spiral.

 

[Melkor]

Silly Cog...

Hrm..I think I have a passage form MoM which summed up the 'reading' of an Intp nicely...

I think it said somethng like 'frustrating to the point of maddening the one who tried'.



You should just leave it methinks.





Unless you're an Intp, or maybe an Infp or Intj, then you don't really have much chance...

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Oh an INTP you say, well I never thought of that.

 

[flow]

I'm just getting into a relationship with an ENTJ myself, and it's both exciting and terrifying! I love how forward she is, but at the same time I'm never sure of what she's thinking about (she's so unpredictable). We both go to great lengths to make sure the other one knows exactly what we're talking about...so I think working on directness is the key. Whatever you're thinking, say it! Don't play guessing games with each other, ask him what he means exactly when he says things...and hopefully vice versa. Communication is key.

 

[juggernaut]

You should just leave it methinks.





Unless you're an Intp, or maybe an Infp or Intj, then you don't really have much chance...

I think you may be right.

 

[chocolate]

I dunno, I know an INTP who's married to an ESxP (my guess) and they get along awesome. They both seem to have pretty high P.