RB vs. the World: Trangenderism (split from Policy Change thread)

[Hadoblado]

Another thing that seems to happen is people compare suicide rates of post-op trans to the general population, rather than to pre-op trans. Obviously it's more difficult to get a representative sample of pre-op trans, but comparing to the general population is a complete fallacy for the purposes of weighing the benefits of the operation.

I don't know what the actual numbers are though.

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

Another thing that seems to happen is people compare suicide rates of post-op trans to the general population, rather than to pre-op trans. Obviously it's more difficult to get a representative sample of pre-op trans, but comparing to the general population is a complete fallacy for the purposes of weighing the benefits of the operation.

I don't know what the actual numbers are though.

According this report from American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, for example for genital surgery the suicide-attempt rates are identical for pre- and post-ops (43% for male-to-female and 49% for female-to-male).

Perhaps another thing worth noting from that report is that for example for people who answer "never" to the question of whether other people can tell if they are transgender, the suicide attempt rate is still extremely high at 36%.

But it's also clear from that report that things like abuse and discrimination grossly elevate the suicide-attempt rates to 60-70%.

Overall, the most striking finding of our analysis was the exceptionally high prevalence of lifetime suicide attempts reported by NTDS respondents across all demographics and experiences. Based on prior research and the findings of this report, we find that mental health factors and experiences of harassment, discrimination, violence and rejection may interact to produce a marked vulnerability to suicidal behavior in transgender and gender non-conforming individuals. More research on suicidal behavior among transgender and gender non-conforming people is needed.

The statistical sophistication of the report is extremely poor though. By doing regressions, for example, they could have figured out the rate controlled for the abuse/discrimination factor, but instead merely opted for looking at average rates in all the groups.

 

[Jennywocky]

*Swept away by Jen's Ti tsunami*

I'm on your side.

Sorry. I kinda used you more as a springboard, rather than meaning to direct a full salvo rebuttal at you in particular.

What a great tag team!

 

[Jennywocky]

According this report from American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, for example for genital surgery the suicide-attempt rates are identical for pre- and post-ops (43% for male-to-female and 49% for female-to-male).

Perhaps another thing worth noting from that report is that for example for people who answer "never" to the question of whether other people can tell if they are transgender, the suicide attempt rate is still extremely high at 36%.

But it's also clear from that report that things like abuse and discrimination grossly elevate the suicide-attempt rates to 60-70%.

Yeah, as the report notes:

Respondents who experienced rejection by family and​

friends, discrimination, victimization, or violence had​

elevated prevalence of suicide attempts, such as those​

who experienced the following:​

— Family chose not to speak/spend time with them: 57%​

— Discrimination, victimization, or violence at school,​

at work, and when accessing health care​

• Harassed or bullied at school (any level): 50-54%​

• Experienced discrimination or harassment at​

work: 50-59%​

• Doctor or health care provider refused to treat​

them: 60%​

• Suffered physical or sexual violence:​

— At work: 64-65%​

— At school (any level): 63-78%​

— Discrimination, victimization, or violence by law​

enforcement​

• Disrespected or harassed by law enforcement​

officers: 57-61%​

• Suffered physical or sexual violence: By law​

enforcement officers: 60-70​

— Experienced homelessness: 69%

The thing is, you can't really assume anything about surgery in light of what might be contributing to suicide attempts. The same stressors listed above are still operative before and after surgery. Surgery has its own benefits for an individual's peace of mind but will not typically resolve social stigma/non-acceptance, for example; and those seem to be the things that increase suicide risk.

I mean, hell, there are concerted waves of people protesting trans people's using their assigned bathrooms even AFTER surgery and essentially accusing them of at best being fake and worst being sexual predators, as one social factor. Imagine a world where as soon as you step out the door to your house, you're a target and if you make your background public, you'll be punished; that plus all the other derogatory opinions generate a substantial quantity of emotional PTSD to deal with before hand and after.

Dating prospects too are pretty slim for transwomen (unless they date other transwomen) and not as bad but still not great for transguys... again because of the social stigma. "Okay, being trans is fine, but I don't want to be romantically involved." I think back in the 60's and 70's people were told to pretend to be cisgen after medical treatment and never tell your own spouse, because otherwise society would not be accepting. It's kind of crazy to think about.

There's a lot of shit people take for granted that transpeople pretty much lose. It would take a lot of mental tenacity.