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Ranting and Raving

PiedPiper

Breathe
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Today 12:08 PM
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Jul 2, 2020
Messages
176
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Okay, first post. Most of what I write tends to come out as gibberish,
even to me, the problem being in that thoughts seem to clash at just the
right time and in such and order that it feigns a puzzle thrown together carelessly.
Unorganized and often disillusioned.
What I will never understand; why should one be allowed to exist if he/she
is constantly and relentlessly the disgust of a society which adopts certain ideals.
If we take religion, we say believing in an imaginary god/gods "sane" because part of society believes it and
it's considered perfectly sane. But you then view the average "nutzo" in a psych ward
that believes his "god" is real, what's the difference? What if we take it a
step further and say multiple people believe in this same "imagined presence" as the skitzo. Does the fact
that a mass of people decide it's "true" dictate it's very real existence? Well, yes(and no). If
a group of people notices a cup of coffee on a rooftop, how can it be false? True in that case but...not exactly valid if
we're discussing a universally invisible subject.
What the he** is sanity? And what is true 'insanity'. If thought would no longer become a right
but instead a gauge to our own inner worth, he
/she can't think this way anymore because
it doesn't line up to society). He/she deserves to die metaphorically.
Well...what are your thoughts. Probably a whole lot more organized than mine.
 

Hadoblado

think again losers
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Your communication seems a little scattered but your post overall has a clear direction.

Insanity isn't really a term used much in psychology. I think it just means irrational by conventional standards. Thus, if you're a logician, people who are being irrational are not insane just because you're more rational than they are.

This would also explain why someone believing in god is not insane, but believing in the wrong god can be.

A priest will tell you about their personal journey with god, and it might include some things that are subjective and false, but they'll give a clear picture even if it's wrong. They won't tell you things that go against societal norms. The nutter in the cell will likely contradict themselves, and the story they tell will fall into specific patterns like grandiosity or paranoia.

I guess that's sort of the hidden question in what you've asked. If insanity is going against societal norms, then why can't we cure 'insanity' by loosening those restrictions? I think that ultimately comes down to game theory in ensuring that, if ever there is no hierarchy of accepted thought and no structured belief system for preventing their implementation, groups will be advantaged in initiating one. Insanity is therefore an inevitable social phenomenon.
 

ZenRaiden

One atom of me
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5,262
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Location
Between concrete walls
The main focus now-days in psychology or psychiatry is to simply make you function in society. Schizophrenic people and psychotic people over all are just not in touch with reality to the extent that it makes them functional. Believing in God it self is not dysfunctional and in fact such belief might for some people be a healthy way to cope with unhealthy reality. Which lets be honest is quite a normal thing for a lot of human history.

Now what constitutes functional or not depends largely on context.

You can actually be quite a nutcase and be considered healthy otherwise from a psychological point of view, because you can function well in society, but on the other hand lot of normal people will just call you that weird uncle or that cat lady or that troubled boy or whatever. It just so happens sometimes people out of the norm can be perceived as dysfunctional.
 

BurnedOut

Your friendly neighborhood asshole
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A fucking black hole
What I will never understand; why should one be allowed to exist if he/she
is constantly and relentlessly the disgust of a society which adopts certain ideals.
The relativism entrenched in this line is very excess. But to answer your important metaphysical question, I would say that you may think like that only when you look at things from the perspective of each individual person. However, what you say is not really valid philosophically nor psychologically because the mental heuristics we use tend to abstract at least some facts automatically. You are forgetting the fact that despite all the relativism you can muck at someone, everyone has a sense of what 'normal' means. The primordial notion of normalcy is genetic because the normals change in each evolution and if anything stands out it, it is going to be treated with suspicion. For example, if shitting on the roads is acceptable in one culture and not in another then the first culture surely consists of mentally unarranged people because even animals can deduce without much sentience that it is going to be unhygienic -> can damage health -> survival threatened -> feeling of disgust.

If we take religion, we say believing in an imaginary god/gods "sane" because part of society believes it and
it's considered perfectly sane. But you then view the average "nutzo" in a psych ward
that believes his "god" is real, what's the difference? What if we take it a
step further and say multiple people believe in this same "imagined presence" as the skitzo. Does the fact
that a mass of people decide it's "true" dictate it's very real existence?

The nutzo's god will decried because he actually sees a god and interacts with it whereas a layman, no matter how pious, accepts the existence of god by denying his existence (transcendental negation). The layman has to perform rituals and whatnot to get a whiff of God so obscure that it avails the interpretations of several texts. A nutzo's god is unnaturally benevolent and magnanimous in his bodily disclosure. That is unnatural for the most bigoted man who is biologically driven to deny his existence at some level.


Well, yes(and no). If
a group of people notices a cup of coffee on a rooftop, how can it be false? True in that case but...not exactly valid if
we're discussing a universally invisible subject.
The problem is solved when facts are presented, that is, the cup exists and it can be observed. The debate on it becomes futile when someone raises a notion that it is an illusion and then attacks its metaphysical aspects. Being pragmatic is much better. If you can observe it and derive your perceptions of its material through your senses, it exists because the object has given you thoughts pertaining to it without a preceding thought. Whether it is an illusion or something else is another thing to discuss. But if you can simply display the cup exists there, illusion or not, who can deny that it is a universal truth ?

What the he** is sanity? And what is true 'insanity'. If thought would no longer become a right
but instead a gauge to our own inner worth, he
/she can't think this way anymore because
it doesn't line up to society). He/she deserves to die metaphorically.

Thought is always a right of someone. It can be sabotaged, sure but it cannot be suppressed permanently and that is why nobody deserves to die.

Well...what are your thoughts. Probably a whole lot more organized than mine.
Its a rant, I know but I ranted too. Now, you have proven your point !
 

Black Rose

An unbreakable bond
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Location
with mama
Talking to God through a potato in the corner of the room does seem a little insane. But what if the potato is completely rational. Makes good conversation. Tells the truth. I had a pet potato once, it wasn't sentient but it was a good boy. Now to the reasonable effects that you do wind up hearing God's voice from a potato you're not necessarily crazy. If you can think straight you still have sanity. What should interest you is what the potato has to say. Is it threatening you? Is it random or coherent? Is potato acting like a reasonable human being?

If the public normally does not see or hear God yet claim to believe well saying its nuts to see and hear they really that is just hypocritical. If God exists then why not see and hear them. Is it inherent to belief in God that you do not hear or see them? That just makes it more of a reason not to believe at all. In all honesty, you want to be in God's presence that should be something to reach for.

The real questions you should be asking the potato is whether they actually are the voice of God or just a hallucination. And why a potato? But just because it is a voice in your head does not mean it is fake, real intelligence could be behind it. The source would just be in the head nothing supernatural. The same goes for society's contact with God. If it is all in the head their hypocrites.

Altered perceptions do not make one sain or insane. Distorted thinking does. These intelligent entities may come just from one's mind but they are not random. If they are capable of rational thought they probably know what is up. It is perfectly fine to have an imaginary friend come alive. But whether supernatural forces are at work depends on other factors such as faster than light travel and psychics.
 

Rook

enter text
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look at flag
Looking at things from.... the real viewpoint makes it easy to disregard the mass hallucinations that most experience as their "daily routine" or culture or what have you.

When you meet an emperor, know that he squats over the excremental bowl just as foully as any peasant.

How does a wasp experience a tree visually?

How does it feel to be a hummingbird(which are omnivores lol)
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
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Location
germany
Was reading your other thread as well. Take care of yourself. The world is filled with ambitious people, who construct a dream for themselves and dreams tend to turn to nightmares and they are polarizing too. Some dreams affect other people more than a personal dream ever should. No need to get involved with that shit.

When you let go of ambitions relative to relationships or dreams involving other people or anything else, except physical health, you may seem to loose "humanity", but idealist attachment is just a false notion of "humanity".

Without it you are just ready to rediscover true nature, without violent demands.

I hope you don't have a disease. Nature can have diseases.
It's not an ideal or safe-haven, but better than a nightmare.
It's usually good, while it lasts. It's a monkey business.

YOU decide that YOU are allowed to live, when you feed on anything. This can be declared a rule for yourself, it is YOUR own rule, not THE rule of the universe. It serves your habits, your organism, the stability of your mind. Every day you will feed, without thinking about it again.

Purely hypothetically speaking: You may decide to murder someone, who stands in your way, whatever the fuck you think your way is. Best case, you are trying to fetch a coffee. Just once or you decide, that as a rule, you are generally allowed to murder anyone who stands in your way, any way, so you don't have to think as much about it again. You rule is, to simplify: I take whatever i want, coffee, lives, it's the same to me.

"Why should one be allowed to exist if he/she is constantly and relentlessly the disgust of a society which adopts certain ideals."

Have a good look at how boundary violating the thinking right there is. One should or should not be allowed to live???? So EVERY ONE in society should decide upon cultivating a rule for himself, that concerns not even himself, but OTHER lives - taking other lives? And everyone should implement the same rule, for the sake of what, predictability? If everyone is going to violate boundaries, than the way in which they do it should better be compatible with life, not just logically coherent with each other, or else everyone dies. This is going to be fucking complicated.

As a rule, we might all start by violating boundaries of others only in a soft manner, that does not bloody end their physical lives. This simplifies the survival of our species enormously.

So most of us settle, as a rule, to violate boundaries by merely making other people feel bad, by telling them what they should think and do, all fucking day long, until they can't hear their own thoughts any more and we call this society or social network, but its kinda like psychiatry.

Boundary violations fail the test of what would be desirable, if everyone did it. Boundary violations aren't desirable. Thus, you should not be allowed, by your own "kantegorical" reasoning, to end someone's existence or to inject your judgements (choices or rule) into the actions of others by some kind of force.

So some of us, as a rule, try to avoid boundary violations, outside of self-defense. We make rules only for ourselves. As a rule, we will eat, preferably plants. We humbly reserve some living quarters for ourselves. Etc. The concept of allowance does not come into it. We just try to get away with it, because we found that we want to, organically and repeatedly.

In the case of conflicts of interest, we try to assume that the other party, like us, has their own rules, regarding their own self (only), within their own boundaries and apart from rigid rules, called personality, they also have solid needs (concerning only themselves) and we try to respect both as much as possible, as we respect our own needs, when we choose our own rules or personality.

We don't respect it, if they cultivate boundary violating rules or impulses on the regular.

If this post sounds basic, wait a second.

This is the difference between borderline-pathology and sanity. In borderline, the individual does not exist. The thinking is an obsession with the cultivation of relationships, which is the application of rules (expectations of regularity) to the actions of both self and other, so half of these expectations (rules) are always boundary violating, but actually, the other half is also boundary violating, because dismisses the individual, which does not exist, as it has not been cultivated, it has never been feed for its own purpose, was only used to cultivate relationships, enslaved by the search of regularities, of control. The borderliner will study gender studies and spend his lifetime stalking other people, trying to control their actions. He will invest himself in relationships, that match the expectation (rules) he has constructed for unconscious reasons and he will kill everyone, who does not fit into this picture any more, because why should they deserve to exist, when he has no use (rule) for them?

Its pretty fucking exhausting for everyone. Try sanity. Eat something, for your own sake, not so you are fit for a fuck or for army or whatever the old relationship aka assigned-purpose (=slavery) model is.

So you see, insanity has to do with a broken understanding of boundaries. In all insanities, there is an obsession with relationships of sorts, that precedes and corrupts how and why the individual thinks an acts as an individual, to the point where a real individual personality (true-self-serving rules) is hardly discernible. The core motive of a narcissist is to prove a subjetive narrative, that is typically untrue and makes him seem superior, which usually involves destroying the social standing of other people, rather than accomplishing anything on their own. What the hell is he getting out of this? An imagined relationship, you might say, but how does that really touch the individual, the organism? Where is the individual? You can't find it in his conscious psyche. There is just a narrative, which is a total lie, designed to manipulate relationships of interaction.

The shizoid feels himself as a purely intellectual, perceptive and analytical entity, who is not allowed to take any socially noticeable room, except perhaps a tiny bit of physical space and visual appearance. The main rule for relationships is to hide that intellectual self from boundary violating people. An authentically acting self could not be hidden from them, as there are too many conflicts of interest, which provoke boundary violating people to make the individual feel bad, by telling them what they should think and do instead, all fucking day long, until they can't hear their own thoughts any more. So the actions of the self remain minimal, designed primarily to avoid conflict of interests, never to serve the self. As a result the shizoid has not developed a character of self-serving rules, beyond basics, such as eating, he is unable to name any sophisticated wish. He sees what others have and may want something kinda like that but isn't really sure if it would be a match for him, as there is nothing to match it against.

Other insanities .. Schizophrenia ... is harder to describe. Most are mixing up elements.
 
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