Quitting my *dream* job and starting over?

[WALKYRIA]

Hey everyone,

I used to be active on this forum about 10 years ago, and it really helped me through a tough time when I was younger and figuring things out as an INTP. Looking back, I'm amazed at the patience the community had with me back then.

Fast forward to now, I've become a doctor, specializing in psychiatry, after working in the field for 6 years. While I've always been passionate about neuroscience, the reality of psychiatric practice has hit me hard. Dealing with depressed patients, suicidal individuals, and distressed families on a daily basis has taken its toll. Let's not even get started with my fellow colleagues who I can't stand in general( yeah I know I'm a doc too..)... I guess that they're judgers in general.

I initially envisioned a intellectually stimulating environment, but instead, I find myself in one that's mentally draining. It's made me realize that I'm more suited for research than clinical practice. However, being locked into my residency, I feel trapped.

Now, in my mid-thirties, I'm contemplating whether to complete my psychiatry residency or pursue a different path, like working for a pharmaceutical company. It's a bittersweet realization that the dream job I once imagined doesn't match up with its reality. I'm really thinking about going full independent...

Any thoughts or advice on what I should do next?


Ps: My job made me also crippled with anxiety( that I didn't have at all); isolation and impostor syndrome to add to the mix lol

 

[ZenRaiden]

Me giving career advice would be like captain of local pub giving coaching advice to the Brazilian team, but to put things in perspective, everyone needs to bounce ideas around.

First of all I think jobs do two things a) They push us forward
b) They narrow our focus down
I think what you need is to stop and widen your mind a little and start exploring life in new angle. Unfold the folds, and let the mind wonder with no direction.
I think a person in 30s is psychologically a different being to a person in 20s.
Its worth considering that values and ambitions you once had and made you gravitate towards certain things no longer are the thing you want.
Or to put it differently a person in 30s has completely different expectations and wants and desires and life rhythm. You need to re-calibrate your mind.

Like the first question is do you even want a job and a career?
If no, that is fine, but if yes, then why and what you expect from it?
Also what you describe is partially sing of pre burnout a type of state I had recently, but I developed a full burnout because I am insensitive to myself.
The way to deal with this is realize that you are in half of your life, and taking your god deserved sweetest time to smell the roses and say fuck you to the galaxy and just roam and loiter with no direction can be transformative and maybe what you need.
Because right now you can decide the direction your next half of life will take.
And if you go the wrong direction you might spend another 6 years going some where and find yourself wondering why.. you did that.
I think its better than having some mid life crisis at say 40 and reinventing yourself again, but as INTP I need to do that on regular basis, because otherwise life just passes.

 

[WALKYRIA]

Hey Zen, why do you see yourself as a bad fit for giving career advice? I mean, I feel exactly the same way, but I still dish out career tips regularly as part of my job (hello, impostor syndrome!). And guess what? I pretty much tell people the same thing you just did – the only cure for burnout is to take a break and find some joy again, self care yaddi yadda. So, thanks for the spot-on advice. I've definitely been feeling burnt out lately (happens to me every couple of years, and then I switch jobs but usually stick to the same field). Right now though, I'm seriously thinking about ditching the medical/mental health field altogether.

Oh, and btw, how are you handling things yourself? Have you found your balance yet?

About the whole midlife crisis at 40 thing – I used to think I had an early midlife crisis but then i remember that I seem to have a crisis every couple of years anyways. It's like my way of refreshing my system. Employers don't seem to be fond of this way of doing things.

Anyway, currently I've decided to take some unpaid leave and meet up with an older mentor for some general advice. After that, I'll figure out whether to bail on this field completely or try something more creative with my skills. Maybe even switch to part-time work.

As for wanting a job or career, I've never been super keen on that indeed. Blame it on my conservative parents who always pushed for it anyways. I started in the medical field purely out of passion and scientific curiosity, but now, after almost a decade in this field, I'm realizing how dull it can be. In the future, i'd like to blend my medical knowledge with technllogy or AI to spice things up, but it feels like I'm on my own in this journey.

So, to sum it up, I'm not really after a traditional job or career path; I just want to explore whatever comes my way. Kind of immature, I know, but apparently, that's typical of us INTPs. Once you feel like you've mastered something (which, let's be real, isn't really a thing in my field), you start craving something new or broader, rather than going super deep into it like an INTJ might and eventually becoming a world expert( or maybe that's just a stereotype).

And yeah, the whole changing priorities with age thing totally rings true. In my twenties, my career or rather *professional interests* was everything, but now that I'm in my thirties, starting a family sounds way more appealing than climbing the career ladder.
I guess I need to find a nice balance.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Oh, and btw, how are you handling things yourself? Have you found your balance yet?

I was on verge of emotionally imploding or to put it mildly I never done much for my mental health and I was screwed up way more than I ever thought, so I am currently catching up with my mental health including CPTSD and realizing I meet criteria for schizoid PD, plus more, ..... so I am pretty FUBAR right now and taking it easy for me is not an option, but a necessity.

About the whole midlife crisis at 40 thing – I used to think I had an early midlife crisis but then i remember that I seem to have a crisis every couple of years anyways. It's like my way of refreshing my system. Employers don't seem to be fond of this way of doing things.

Eh vacations do part of the work, but one or two weeks is very little.

Anyway, currently I've decided to take some unpaid leave and meet up with an older mentor for some general advice. After that, I'll figure out whether to bail on this field completely or try something more creative with my skills. Maybe even switch to part-time work.

What helped me was one guy on the internet saying that life is an open world game, where you get to decide the rules of game. It made me realize also that given my situation playing life the way normal people play it is not an option, given the various challenges. That if I want to get something out of life I got to get creative.

As for wanting a job or career, I've never been super keen on that indeed. Blame it on my conservative parents who always pushed for it anyways. I started in the medical field purely out of passion and scientific curiosity, but now, after almost a decade in this field, I'm realizing how dull it can be. In the future, i'd like to blend my medical knowledge with technllogy or AI to spice things up, but it feels like I'm on my own in this journey.

Yes, I get that, my parents wanted me to be happy and secure too, but the thing is I realized even if I did take their advice and succeed, I would not be happy and maybe not even financially secure. I realized that the world is changing and the game is very different than what my parents had to play.

And yeah, the whole changing priorities with age thing totally rings true. In my twenties, my career or rather *professional interests* was everything, but now that I'm in my thirties, starting a family sounds way more appealing than climbing the career ladder.
I guess I need to find a nice balance.

I get the priority thing, but there is more to it really. Its your whole perception of things, and the fact many of these perceptions are vestigial and meaningless now.
The self is different too. So purging all that extra code in the head is super important. Also I think there is stuff like redefining the idea of time and effort, and life it self. Even if you don't think that has changed as radically, I guarantee there are so many more things, its just that you cannot rewire your whole brain in five days or few months even. Generally I am more talking about myself, but what I mean is in 10 years the world will get wildly more different from what it is now, socially and even economically. So the idea of what life can bring and take will change whether we like it or not, kind of like COVID did. Hopefully in positive direction too not just negative direction. I honestly just got to a point where I can sit still and enjoy the moment, after alot of work. SO I guess I am on the extreme end of psychological make over. I took a dive into psychology mediation etc. so now I sound like a psychiatrist

 

[dr froyd]

ive been in an absolute shitstorm for past month or so facing similar conundrums. So many variables and aspects it made my head spin

i talked to many good friends and family members, but everyone has their own perspective on things based on their own personality and outlook on life. It's helpful, but ultimately nobody can tell you what's best, and they can only assess things based on what version of reality you provide to them

what helped my quite a bit is to take all the various reasons i have in my mind for choosing certain options, and figure out where those reasons come from. For me, some reasons were logical, financial and practical. Others came from petty emotions. Others were philosophical and existential. Attributing the reasons to these specific sources made things quite a lot clearer.

the most difficult thing to do is to break out of a lifestyle you've gotten used to over many years. And as long as you are financially safe and the work is not literally killing you, the most 'reasonable' and 'practical' thing is almost always to just do nothing, and keep walking the same path. This is how most people spend their lives, but it's not a principled choice, in fact it's not a 'choice' at all; it's just drifting along the path of least resistance. There's no philosophical analysis to it. I suspect that when you're old and on your deathbed, you're not gonna thank yourself for not having made any decisions.

 

[ZenRaiden]

k yourself for not having made any decisions.

Our brains see the positive in taking control, because that is what they are made to do, Id argue this is form of bias.
We don't appreciate the down time as much, because its not cool, and it seems fairly boring, but at the same time, the value of down time is something hard to measure.
For instance Id love not to have to sleep and be up for 24 hours, but sleep is necessary down time, whether I like it or not, that said my brain prevents me from appreciating it, until that moment where I have to perform, in similar way not doing the deciding or not being this or that feels off to the brain, but its kind of necessary and hard to do for brain. Because brains reason = do nothing = get nothing.
It should reason = do nothing = get more magic manna = end up doing more magic. TO put it in analogy.
If we take math if I can do my job consistently 89 percent effort way, instead of 68 percent effort way, even if I take more down time, the brain will give you 100 or even 120 or even 200 boost when you need it. If you are depleted the best you can do is maybe 101 percent for few seconds.
I realized doing nothing actually is super cool, because I can idle and still get to do something, and still recharge the dynamo, and then maybe hopefully get to do stuff.
For brain the extreme are most important. So when you are on death bed you might think you will appreciate the big stand out stuff, because our brains like stand out stuff. Not sure why I wrote this, I guess trying to figure out what I am doing.

 

[dr froyd]

@ZenRaiden if one makes the decision to live a more chilled-out life, that's a decision too. Most people don't have the courage to do even that decision.

but it's a decision only if it's an actual decision and not something that merely happened to you and that you rationalize retrospectively

 

[scorpiomover]

Hey everyone,

I used to be active on this forum about 10 years ago, and it really helped me through a tough time when I was younger and figuring things out as an INTP. Looking back, I'm amazed at the patience the community had with me back then.

Fast forward to now, I've become a doctor, specializing in psychiatry, after working in the field for 6 years. While I've always been passionate about neuroscience, the reality of psychiatric practice has hit me hard. Dealing with depressed patients, suicidal individuals, and distressed families on a daily basis has taken its toll.

I think INTPs are a good choice for psychiatry:

1) We love puzzles.

2) The job of a psychiatrist is to figure out what to say to a patient who has errors in their thinking. You have to figure out someone's internal code, then figure out where their errors are, from their inputs and outputs, and then figure out what data to feed them to make them correct their own errors, without ever actually seeing the source code. Biggest puzzle ever.

3) Jung was big into psychiatry, and he seems to me, to have been either an INTP or an ISTP.

Let's not even get started with my fellow colleagues who I can't stand in general( yeah I know I'm a doc too..)... I guess that they're judgers in general.

I get the impression that the field attracts NFJs.

I initially envisioned a intellectually stimulating environment, but instead, I find myself in one that's mentally draining.

Every field can be conservative. You have to find the niches where people let you explore.

It's made me realize that I'm more suited for research than clinical practice. However, being locked into my residency, I feel trapped.

Now, in my mid-thirties, I'm contemplating whether to complete my psychiatry residency or pursue a different path, like working for a pharmaceutical company. It's a bittersweet realization that the dream job I once imagined doesn't match up with its reality. I'm really thinking about going full independent...

Any thoughts or advice on what I should do next?

You could stick with your residency, until you can get into research.

You can think of humans as carbon-based AIs, and you try to understand what makes them tick.

You can easily palm off NFJ colleagues with simple platitudes. They love that shtick.

Or you can change career. But it seems like psychiatry is very much in demand, when a lot of the job market is very unreliable these days.

Ps: My job made me also crippled with anxiety( that I didn't have at all); isolation and impostor syndrome to add to the mix lol

To solve isolation, get friends.

If you mean isolation with no-one to talk to about psychiatry, you have to seek out people who like psychiatry who have zero interest in being employed as one. I know someone who is seriously into Kleinian psychiatry, but refuses to work as a professional psychiatrist, because he knows most of them know very little about it.

To solve imposter syndrome, spend a few hours eavesdropping on your colleagues talking about their patients. Once the initial shock and horror of how little they understand about the human mind wears off, you'll realise that you are a Leonardo da Vinci in a world of Marge Simpsons. Even an INTP's half-assed work is still usually miles ahead of most people's work.

It's just that we have such high standards for ourselves and see the slightest imperfections as serious flaws, that we think of ourselves as incompetent. So when others talk with confidence, we expect that those people talk with confidence only because they are far better than we are.

They only talk with confidence, because they don't have a clue how little they actually know.

If you don't believe me, test them. Read The Red Book, find chapters where Jung points out something that everyone can agree with, and make up a weak, but academic-sounding argument that claims the opposite. Then tell them the argument, and see how many argue it is wrong.

Then take the thing that everyone can agree with, and make it into an argument that sounds like it was said by Trump. Then say you heard it from someone, and see how many say it is correct.

You'll be horrified, as you realise that most humans listen to the form, not the content.

 

[ZenRaiden]

@ZenRaiden if one makes the decision to live a more chilled-out life, that's a decision too. Most people don't have the courage to do even that decision.

but it's a decision only if it's an actual decision and not something that merely happened to you and that you rationalize retrospectively

Yeah, making a decision is kind of like marking it down.

 

[Black Rose]

i'd like to blend my medical knowledge with technllogy or AI to spice things up

Putting On The Most Advanced Brain Scan Helmet Known to Man (Kernel Neuroscience fNIRS Helmet)​

 

[WALKYRIA]

i'd like to blend my medical knowledge with technllogy or AI to spice things up

Putting On The Most Advanced Brain Scan Helmet Known to Man (Kernel Neuroscience fNIRS Helmet)​

Wow, It appears that this guy shares similar interests with me and seems to have achieved self-actualization. However, it's worth noting that despite being a fully trained psychiatrist, he doesn't seem to practice psychiatry much, which is ironic given the extensive years of study involved( typical INTP? 12 years of schooling for that...). Instead, his focus seems to be on neurotechnology, akin to Elon Musk's Neuralink project. Additionally, he seems to exhibit traits of an INT type, possibly 5w6 due to his heavily technical inclinations. In contrast, I identify more with a 5w4 profile, characterized by creativity, literal thinking, and imagination( I suspect Jung was INTP/INFJ 5w4 too). Although I love technology, I'm not fond of the technicalities of it, rather I prefer the endgoal and the vision that comes with technology. The potential is huge but in Psychiatry the issue( and reason why many medical students, INTP included don't choose...) is that we know so little so applying technology with so little knowledge is odd. Neurology( which is better understood and less etheral and mystical than the study of *the mind* ) on the other hand combined with technology can do wonders: restoring eyesight, restoring lost sense, restoring motor function, telekinesis, telepathy,... that really seems promising and futuristic. Maybe I should go work with Elon Musk

Nonetheless, I appreciate the introduction to this interesting individual and will be following his work closely.