Psychology of Patriotism (or A Boner for the Military)

[PaulMaster]

Surely we've all met people who have a huge boner for the military, the police, and the Establishment (White America) in general - folks who seem to believe that cops are just the greatest people on the streets, the military (the American military) is even better than sliced bread. Its like these people go out of their way to love cops and soldiers and the national anthem and the American flag, etc...

We all know the type, yes? Uber patriotic to the point of near religious fervor...

I've been giving these behaviors/beliefs some thought lately and I dont really have any great theories about why some people have such a boner for American authority figures. The best I've come up with is displaced fatherly affection, but it doesnt really seem like the best explanation.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone here felt like offering a theory...

 

[peoplesuck]

If you cant appreciate this great country then you should get out!
but srs, i think some people just need to have a group. a lot of people get sucked into the us vs them mentality really easily. questioning is hard when you grow up in a house hold where " because i said so" is why you do things. perhaps they are stupid, its not very creative or fun.

 

[Analyzer]

Just plain collectivist thinking wrapped in the illusion of freedom. It's basically modern tribalism for people who yearn for security, comfort, and recognition outside their own lives.

 

[PaulMaster]

Hmm.

Does it originate in our old, monkey brain? Perhaps an instinctive need for the protection of the social structure in general and the alpha/leader in particular...a safety, survival instinct kind of thing...

 

[The Grey Man]

I think it is related to the need for survival in that it comes from an appreciation for the relative accessibility of means to thrive, of peace and prosperity afforded by the multi-faceted presence of the Establishment, experienced through its effects on daily life. Presuming that there is such an appreciation for the relative quality of life under the system, seeing other people engaged in activities that are seen as facilitating the Establishment and thus indirectly, or aggregately, improving the lives of others can lead to admiration for those people, and perhaps even emulation.

Ultimately, I think patriotism in America and Canada quite often comes from a reasonable desire for what is experientially good, and not insucurity or brainwashing. I'm sure there are more than a few patriots, though, who are just looking to fill a vacuum of perceived personal worth by identifying with some group, or just get off on order and authority no matter what form it takes.

 

[ruminator]

Maybe it is linked to loyalty. The idea that they are looking out for us so we feel gratitude and loyalty to them.

 

[Analyzer]

Hmm.

Does it originate in our old, monkey brain? Perhaps an instinctive need for the protection of the social structure in general and the alpha/leader in particular...a safety, survival instinct kind of thing...

Yeah, possibly a glitch. Maybe it is in the majority gene pool to be this way, some sort of evolutionary structure. An individual autonomy mutation could emerge or is in the process where it's being flipped to the majority, eon's in the future. But is evolution necessarily progressive?

 

[PaulMaster]

Yeah, possibly a glitch. Maybe it is in the majority gene pool to be this way, some sort of evolutionary structure. An individual autonomy mutation could emerge or is in the process where it's being flipped to the majority, eon's in the future. But is evolution necessarily progressive?

Anything progressive should be able to keeps itself around. I think the idea of progression is implied over the long term, but on the short term, variations may or may not be beneficial or progressive. Also, traits and genetic qualities do not always cease to be after a subsequent species has emerged. Our hierarchical social structure is something we got from earlier animals/organisms, and we still use it today.

Rather than a glitch, an expression of this hierarchical instinct.

 

[Sinny91]

Silent weapons for quiet wars.
People lost in the matrix.
Asleep.
Bought.
Or both.



Always look to Uncle Sam. CIA has had a huge influence on the White Patriot movement, since Nam. Psy-ops. Social engineering. Its all old hat now. It infuriates me.. somewhere. I barely care any more.

 

[Analyzer]

Anything progressive should be able to keeps itself around. I think the idea of progression is implied over the long term, but on the short term, variations may or may not be beneficial or progressive. Also, traits and genetic qualities do not always cease to be after a subsequent species has emerged. Our hierarchical social structure is something we got from earlier animals/organisms, and we still use it today.

Rather than a glitch, an expression of this hierarchical instinct.

Why are some individuals affected by this expression of hierarchical instinct, while others not as much? Environmental factors like education and culture may influence it. Are people who question authority, skeptical of organizational institutions and other top-down mechanisms, a mutation? Surely it seems being like this can spark innovation although its been disadvantageous for survival.

 

[PaulMaster]

Why are some people from affected by this expression of hierarchical instinct, while others not as much? Could it be that environmental influence like education and culture influence this. Are people who question authority, skeptical of organizational institutions and other top-down mechanisms, a mutation? Surely it seems being like this has been disadvantageous for survival.

We all have the instinct. But we express it in widely varying ways. We are all pack animals.

 

[Sinny91]

Instinct.

I imagine that to be a fascinating notion to deconstruct.

 

[Sinny91]

I wouldn't say that we are all pack animals.. what about the lone wolves?

But I would say that we are all individuals, part of a larger collective.
Possibly connected in multitudes of ways, many of which we couldn't begin to imagine.

Our understanding of ourselves is severley lacking. We know nothing of our origins, our history, our capabilities, our purpose.. our potential.

We've been living in the dark ages, or - more to the point - some hidden hand has been keeping us in the dark ages.

Human history is a sorry tale...
We as individuals may be able to rectify ourselves - some of ourselves - but what of the collective?

 

[Analyzer]

Instinct.

I imagine that to be a fascinating notion to deconstruct.

Yeah what is this instinct?

 

[Analyzer]

I wouldn't say that we are all pack animals.. what about the lone wolves?

But I would say that we are all individuals, part of a larger collective.
Possibly connected in multitudes of ways, many of which we couldn't begin to imagine.

Our understanding of ourselves is severley lacking. We know nothing of our origins, our history, our capabilities, our purpose.. our potential.

We've been living in the dark ages, or - more to the point - some hidden hand has been keeping us in the dark ages.

Human history is a sorry tale...
We as individuals may be able to rectify ourselves - some of ourselves - but what of the collective?

The collective is outside of our control. All you can really do is improve yourself and maybe this indirectly takes care of the collective. Top-down measures and general collectivist doctrine suppresses this ability for certain individuals to rectify themselves. They lack the knowledge necessary to plan or design society, that only individuals can locally coordinate. Once you start generalizing subjective values of all peoples into a form of ethics or law, you get unintended consequences. This is shown time and time again.

I am interested in why this ability is only present in certain individuals. This is a question of what it means to be human.

 

[Sinny91]

The collective is outside of our control.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Those who created the Abrahamic religions managed to control a large portion of western civilisation for the better part of 2000 years. Who knows who else has been in control, to what extent and by what means they gained and exerted that control.

I think there are many variables at play as to who's susceptible to outward control and who's not.. I think this subject crosses over with Yellows thread on will/conviction.

All you can really do is improve yourself and maybe this indirectly takes care of the collective.

Well, thats one approach.. I'm unsure how successful it has been.

Top-down measures and general collectivist doctrine suppresses this ability for certain individuals to rectify themselves. They lack the knowledge necessary to plan or design society, that only individuals can locally coordinate. Once you start generalizing subjective values of all peoples into a form of ethics or law, you get unintended consequences. This is shown time and time again.

I am interested in why this ability is only present in certain individuals. This is a question of what it means to be human.

 

[PaulMaster]

Yeah what is this instinct?

an innate, typically fixed pattern of behavior in animals in response to certain stimuli.
"birds have an instinct to build nests"

 

[Analyzer]

Perhaps, perhaps not. Those who created the Abrahamic religions managed to control a large portion of western civilisation for the better part of 2000 years. Who knows who else has been in control, to what extent and by what means they gained and exerted that control.

I think there are many variables at play as to who's susceptible to outward control and who's not.. I think this subject crosses over with Yellows thread on will/conviction.



Well, thats one approach.. I'm unsure how successful it has been.

Socrates, Buddha, Jesus, among others favored this approach. They believed this was the only way improvement of society can really be successful.

The history of institutionalized religion is pretty vague. A lot of been has been tied up with the State and exploitation. But you are right, we do not know all the variables in play. I think this gives support to the idea of spontaneous order or emergence, where properties of systems such as society emerge from the bottom-up instead of top down exertion. At least that's the sustainable or good part which actually keeps it productive and creative. This has been observed and noted beginning with Zhuangzi/ Taoism. The negative features are always the central planned ones including war, slavery, and oppression.

Think about the marketplace, cities, art, knowledge, the Internet, and language. Were these decentralized schemes of interaction or some sort of planned out design from a greater entity?

 

[Hadoblado]

It's marketing of the nation-state. Brand loyalty. It's not so much that people are mindless idiots so much as that everyone is susceptible to this brand of marketing, and the only way its effect is mitigated is through a detached understanding of what's happening. Comprehension is like armor for the brain. But this comprehension serves little purpose for most. You are rewarded socially for patriotism. If you wear the flag on your shoulders everyone with similar views looks favourably on you, while anyone that questions the flag will be denounced. In America this is particularly pronounced, where everyone's fighting over the authority of being 'more American'. Even the people that disagree with everything America is doing phrase it as wanting to 'make the country great again'.

Australia has similar elements, but there's also a pretty heavy cultural backlash. People that get the Southern Cross tattooed are making a socially polarising choice: they will make friends easily with some, but many people will dismiss them at a glance.

 

[onesteptwostep]

Being in the military in itself offers a very different psychological bonding. You train, live, and exercise with a group of people for months and the bonds you create during it are much different than the ones you make out in society. There's a sense of respect, collective psychology and hierarchy and order within military life. To a certain extent I wouldn't even call it patriotism. Ever wonder why groupings in the military are called company?

 

[TBerg]

That class of people puts up with more bullshit from more people than most of us do. They have exceptionally dangerous jobs, with a degree of discipline enforced, and suffer so much hatred even from the people they attempt to help in the first place. Unless you are a full-blown anarchist, you have to respect the eminent task they perform.

I am not up to such a task. I thank them for pulling more weight than I ever could.

 

[Sly-fy]

I am not patriotic about the country in which I was born, or about the country in which I currently reside, but I've always understood the patriotism of Americans as IMO the US is the greatest country in the world because of all of its achievements and the level of individual freedom its residents enjoy, which is greater than that of any other countries'.

America, like every other country also has some down sides, but in the end I could see myself being patriotic if I were a US citizen, for the aforementioned reasons.

 

[Nofriends]

The only time I become patriotic is when my nation is threatened, in 2016, third-world immigration.

 

[Hadoblado]

...

 

[xbox]

...

 

[kora]

.

 

[Fukyo]

The only time I become patriotic is when my nation is threatened, in 2016, third-world immigration.

You should make friends with them.

Spoiler

nsfw

Spoiler

 

[JimJambones]

I have respect for cops and soldiers where it is earned, and most earn it. Most are likely decent people who probably believe in what they are doing. They do a lot of work I would work tirelessly to avoid unless I absolutely had to do it. With that said, I find nationalism kind of frightening when it goes horribly wrong and a large number of people throw caution and reason to the wind and act on impulses that end up doing more harm than good.

 

[QuickTwist]

Just plain collectivist thinking wrapped in the illusion of freedom. It's basically modern tribalism for people who yearn for security, comfort, and recognition outside their own lives.

^ This.

Maybe it is linked to loyalty. The idea that they are looking out for us so we feel gratitude and loyalty to them.

^ And this.

I wouldn't say that we are all pack animals.. what about the lone wolves?

But I would say that we are all individuals, part of a larger collective.
Possibly connected in multitudes of ways, many of which we couldn't begin to imagine.

Our understanding of ourselves is severley lacking. We know nothing of our origins, our history, our capabilities, our purpose.. our potential.

We've been living in the dark ages, or - more to the point - some hidden hand has been keeping us in the dark ages.

Human history is a sorry tale...
We as individuals may be able to rectify ourselves - some of ourselves - but what of the collective?

Good post.

It's marketing of the nation-state. Brand loyalty. It's not so much that people are mindless idiots so much as that everyone is susceptible to this brand of marketing, and the only way its effect is mitigated is through a detached understanding of what's happening. Comprehension is like armor for the brain. But this comprehension serves little purpose for most. You are rewarded socially for patriotism. If you wear the flag on your shoulders everyone with similar views looks favourably on you, while anyone that questions the flag will be denounced. In America this is particularly pronounced, where everyone's fighting over the authority of being 'more American'. Even the people that disagree with everything America is doing phrase it as wanting to 'make the country great again'.

Australia has similar elements, but there's also a pretty heavy cultural backlash. People that get the Southern Cross tattooed are making a socially polarising choice: they will make friends easily with some, but many people will dismiss them at a glance.

Its basically group thinking advertisement by the government.

That class of people puts up with more bullshit from more people than most of us do. They have exceptionally dangerous jobs, with a degree of discipline enforced, and suffer so much hatred even from the people they attempt to help in the first place. Unless you are a full-blown anarchist, you have to respect the eminent task they perform.

I am not up to such a task. I thank them for pulling more weight than I ever could.

Yeah, but why? For what? All I can see is that people who join the military are either looking for a way out or are crazy.