Need some tips. I think it's been asked countless times before. I apologize.
I'm having trouble socializing when it's somewhat needed to socialize irl. I'm not having problems answering basic questions, and talking about basic stuff.
But when it's time to be casual and have banter, I 'shut-down'. I have concerns that others may find me stuck-up, being a little too closed-minded, or insecure.
When in actuality, I feel fine with myself, and am not too hard on myself. Aside from being guilty of having the impression that I'm being critical of other people. When in fact, I feel fine with others, and don't have bad judgements of anyone.
What I have noticed, is that the socializing (irl) takes a huge toll on the little energy that I'm trying to preserve. Also, I can't seem to think coherently and socialize at the same time. I can only do one or the other in the moment.
Another aspect, is that I don't seem to have any interest in the topic of the small-talk conversation. Thus, I stop myself from adding anything, because it would only be stated with false interest.
I was just wondering:
- Just how common this is to people here, and to what measure?
- To those who have no troubles socializing freely with people you don't know, can you articulate some guidelines of a procedure and thought process that can help this adult loner out?
Perhaps, you have other questions that would help dig deeper into the situation.
I relate almost word for word with your post. Small talk is draining, it's the sort of activity that I have to relax and prepare for, lest I end up significantly stressed and restless. Repetition does not diminish the draining nature of the activity, but only helps me play along better. Before an inevitable reunion, meeting or party, I meditate and do deeeeeep breathing exercises the day before and the morning of the day itself. Still, I can only handle roughly 15 minutes of small-talk at a time before having to retreat into a quiet place, like the kitchen of the house the party is being held in. Sometimes someone will notice and only half-jokingly ask why I'm "in my own world" or something along those lines.
It's difficult not to think "this is fucking stupid" when I'm being introduced to somebody by my parents and the conversation can't be steered away from "What are you studying? Do you have lots of friends? Oh, you play the piano, DDSpada? That's wonderful!". I call that phenomenon the grandmother-conversation-syndrome. In general, the older the person is, the worse the syndrome becomes. I go through it by tryyyyyying to rationalize that what they are doing is the way they probably best know to bring people together. As you say, it seems as if small-talk and making sense are mutually exclusive. I think it has much to do with Fe and Ti having a mutually suppresive relationship, but perhaps I'm just coming up with a rationalization for my clumsy small-talk skills.
- To those who have no troubles socializing freely with people you don't know, can you articulate some guidelines of a procedure and thought process that can help this adult loner out?
I do not claim to have no trouble socializing. At all. One of the best things that I've learned from MBTI/Jung/CF analysis is that time spent trying to improve your weaknesses is better spent further honing your strengths. I know that I, a borderline eremitic INTP, will never be as free-flowing, warm, fuzzy and enchanting as the ESFJ next door. Learning to temporarily mask a weakness and developing the skills that are weak are worlds apart.
I try to prepare for such events if I can. If not, I try to speak as little as I can get away with. I ask many many questions about anecdotes, food, school, travel, dreams and plans for the future, music, sports. I've learned that family and drink can turn ugly fast, and I thus avoid both topics. Expect the questions to bounce back, and prepare some as-flexible-as-possible answers beforehand, one or two minutes each.
Switch small-talk partners every 15 or so minutes if you can't have any down time, but still ask the same sort of questions with your new partner. You'll look more "social" without having to make a significant effort. You might find someone who answers awkwardly, it's possible they are in a situation similar to yours. That might open the door to some more fulfilling conversation. If it is appropriate and you drink/smoke, have a drink or a cigarette every so often while not in the fray. That can buy you some precious time to rest before continuing.
At least while greeting somebody for the first time, draw a slight smile. If you know how to pull it off without being goofy, act formal and well-mannered as if it were "just your style". Most people will buy that well enough. Forcing emotional responses tends to creep people out, but having a deathstare (more natural for the average INTP, I dare say) is often worse. Look at the faces your interlocutor makes. Do they raise their eyebrows when excited? Do they prefer half smiles to full smiles? Do they tilt their head to one side? Copy them without making it too obvious.
Pull your chest up by slightly straightening your back and pulling your shoulderblades together. Your physical presence is one of the few factors a stranger can have to decide whether or not to feel comfortable around you.
I think I have decent experience with small-talk and socialization (when compared to the amount of both I'd most enjoy having (close to zero), at the very least) but still I lean toward thinking that these conundrums won't really ever stop coming up. Experience, even if it might not make the ride pleasant, it can make it a little less bumpy.
I hope that helps.
Sources:
> Seventeen years of going to church and being active within it. My family invited folks over for lunch often. As the pianist/organist, some people (FOR SOME UNFATHOMABLE REASON, WHY NOT PICK THE PASTOR INSTEAD?) decided to pick me to listen to them while they wept away their troubles.
> Several friends tried to "open me up to the world" during middle and high school.
> I dated an ESFP for six months.
I'm having trouble socializing when it's somewhat needed to socialize irl. I'm not having problems answering basic questions, and talking about basic stuff.
Can you elaborate on the social context? Is this for people you see everyday, or for special occasions, or?
I think it's easier to come up with stuff to say for people you see everyday, you can just comment on common tasks or things you read/watched/saw etc. I get into the mindset of just not caring about the quality of the conversation, shut my brain off and just say the most relevant thing I can think of to keep the conversation going.
Practice having social interactions with cashiers every chance that you get. This will build confidence and help you learn how to break the ice. They are paid to be friendly, so it's pretty low risk. Sometimes people in line will chime in, and you get to be the person everyone else will envy.
Use tips from pick-up artists and dating gurus because it applies to social situations, not just picking up women. They are written by people who have the same difficulties that you are having.
Eating green veggies strip estrogen from the body, and avocados increase testosterone. You could get some horny goat weed as well. This will give you a slight boost in confidence. Freudian libido.
@OP, keep it simple,
Don't talk about stuff you don't know about
Empathize with people and their struggles
Don't come across like you know everything and you are the shit
Simple as that.
Outsource it. Most people that feel like socializing often like talking about themselves or how they perceive things. Just ask questions, feign interest if you have to and let them do all the talking.
Can you elaborate on the social context? Is this for people you see everyday, or for special occasions, or?
I think it's easier to come up with stuff to say for people you see everyday, you can just comment on common tasks or things you read/watched/saw etc. I get into the mindset of just not caring about the quality of the conversation, shut my brain off and just say the most relevant thing I can think of to keep the conversation going.
I can see your point about it being easier for people I see everyday. Eventually, as forced interaction continues, I'll snap into more comfortable socializing that flows freely.
One good thing about my co-workers, is there a couple others who don't socialize either.
However, while working, I get torn between doing the job and socializing, as I can't multitask the two (just yet). I have a fear of coming off as anything negative. So I noticed I come across as very polite and formal, which I redirect back to myself as something that isn't the norm. The more talkative people talk about who's hot and who's not, and other much more casual things.
However it isn't all that bad, as I'll sometimes get a nice conversation here and there at lucky moments.
I've noticed some hairstylists/barbers are used to the untalkative types, while others seem not. I often feel like I'm being interrogated, even though at the same time I realize they are just trying to fish for a conversation.
After answering all their questions, I feel like they know more details of me (where I live, work, car I drive, relationship status, and what I do on my free-time) than any private investigator who's been secretly following me around.
I have a very distant relationship with my family, and often they are the same with interrogating, long awkward pauses of silence, and lots of smug smirks and grunts.
Practice having social interactions with cashiers every chance that you get. This will build confidence and help you learn how to break the ice. They are paid to be friendly, so it's pretty low risk. Sometimes people in line will chime in, and you get to be the person everyone else will envy.
I used to try to do that. But even making a light-hearted joke (after full analysis of making sure it was light-hearted) somewhat grinded on my nerves coming out, as I just wasn't 'feeling' it.
I talk to the cashiers, but now only in an honest sense about the small basic stuff. In a way, I think they appreciate that; direct and concise, right to the point. The poor souls socialize all day long, I'd imagine they need a break.
Having everybody's attention would be kind of scary for me. There would be so many feelings and judgements I would have to juggle.
Use tips from pick-up artists and dating gurus because it applies to social situations, not just picking up women. They are written by people who have the same difficulties that you are having.
It's weird, I don't have a longing for a relationship, and enjoy being single right now. I have opened up a bit from shyness in the last few months, and even smile and flirt with people.
I found them attractive obviously, and it was nice to make their day. I only creeped out one person doing this so far.
Eating green veggies strip estrogen from the body, and avocados increase testosterone. You could get some horny goat weed as well. This will give you a slight boost in confidence. Freudian libido.
My libido has always been good. I did experience a strange yet interesting rollercoaster with it from coming off of pills, but it has stabilized again.
Someone I knew well tried suggesting that I may have a testosterone problem, because of timidness and lack of drive. I jokingly showed him the rug of hair that grows over my back, and asked him to re-think.
I don't know if body hair has anything to do with testosterone though, maybe I do have problems or something.
I relate almost word for word with your post. Small talk is draining, it's the sort of activity that I have to relax and prepare for, lest I end up significantly stressed and restless. Repetition does not diminish the draining nature of the activity, but only helps me play along better. Before an inevitable reunion, meeting or party, I meditate and do deeeeeep breathing exercises the day before and the morning of the day itself. Still, I can only handle roughly 15 minutes of small-talk at a time before having to retreat into a quiet place, like the kitchen of the house the party is being held in. Sometimes someone will notice and only half-jokingly ask why I'm "in my own world" or something along those lines.
It's funny, I'll listen to other people talking, which leads me to a thought, which leads to another, and I get deeper and deeper into some kind of trance. It's like I'm super-focused on a train of thought, then realize I must release it, and give it up, and return back to the person, and the conversation. And this 'coming back' expends some energy.
With acquaintance/stranger, how I present myself to this person becomes a problem I must first identify, solve, and then enact on. I sift through as many experiences I have had with this person, and try to construct how they would see me. It's as though I don't have a persona of my own, I have to reflect it from how the other person projects it onto me.
Anything negative or bad becomes a conflict, which leads to self-consciousness and over compensation.
It's difficult not to think "this is fucking stupid" when I'm being introduced to somebody by my parents and the conversation can't be steered away from "What are you studying? Do you have lots of friends? Oh, you play the piano, DDSpada? That's wonderful!". I call that phenomenon the grandmother-conversation-syndrome. In general, the older the person is, the worse the syndrome becomes. I go through it by tryyyyyying to rationalize that what they are doing is the way they probably best know to bring people together. As you say, it seems as if small-talk and making sense are mutually exclusive. I think it has much to do with Fe and Ti having a mutually suppresive relationship, but perhaps I'm just coming up with a rationalization for my clumsy small-talk skills.
Same here. Though I generally sit there and try to figure out their motives and possible intentions for asking these questions. How do they benefit from the answers?
Grandmother asks these questions, and as I answer them the whole room focuses. And that, is a lot of 'intentions' and projections I have to figure out in that moment.
Then not to mention, after getting some assumption of a rough idea, I have to then collect my own thoughts pertaining to the whole matter. A whole process that goes by a whole deal quicker if I don't sense... 'pressure'.
Pressure to come up with something right there on the spot. And to deliver it in a coherent and understandable manner. A manner that doesn't conflict too harshly with anyone else.
I do not claim to have no trouble socializing. At all. One of the best things that I've learned from MBTI/Jung/CF analysis is that time spent trying to improve your weaknesses is better spent further honing your strengths. I know that I, a borderline eremitic INTP, will never be as free-flowing, warm, fuzzy and enchanting as the ESFJ next door. Learning to temporarily mask a weakness and developing the skills that are weak are worlds apart.
I try to prepare for such events if I can. If not, I try to speak as little as I can get away with. I ask many many questions about anecdotes, food, school, travel, dreams and plans for the future, music, sports. I've learned that family and drink can turn ugly fast, and I thus avoid both topics. Expect the questions to bounce back, and prepare some as-flexible-as-possible answers beforehand, one or two minutes each.
Switch small-talk partners every 15 or so minutes if you can't have any down time, but still ask the same sort of questions with your new partner. You'll look more "social" without having to make a significant effort. You might find someone who answers awkwardly, it's possible they are in a situation similar to yours. That might open the door to some more fulfilling conversation. If it is appropriate and you drink/smoke, have a drink or a cigarette every so often while not in the fray. That can buy you some precious time to rest before continuing.
At least while greeting somebody for the first time, draw a slight smile. If you know how to pull it off without being goofy, act formal and well-mannered as if it were "just your style". Most people will buy that well enough. Forcing emotional responses tends to creep people out, but having a deathstare (more natural for the average INTP, I dare say) is often worse. Look at the faces your interlocutor makes. Do they raise their eyebrows when excited? Do they prefer half smiles to full smiles? Do they tilt their head to one side? Copy them without making it too obvious.
Pull your chest up by slightly straightening your back and pulling your shoulderblades together. Your physical presence is one of the few factors a stranger can have to decide whether or not to feel comfortable around you.
I think I have decent experience with small-talk and socialization (when compared to the amount of both I'd most enjoy having (close to zero), at the very least) but still I lean toward thinking that these conundrums won't really ever stop coming up. Experience, even if it might not make the ride pleasant, it can make it a little less bumpy.
I hope that helps.
Sources:
> Seventeen years of going to church and being active within it. My family invited folks over for lunch often. As the pianist/organist, some people (FOR SOME UNFATHOMABLE REASON, WHY NOT PICK THE PASTOR INSTEAD?) decided to pick me to listen to them while they wept away their troubles.
> Several friends tried to "open me up to the world" during middle and high school.
> I dated an ESFP for six months.
It's interesting and feels good to hear the insight from someone who goes through similar things. There was some very good tips, such as deep-breathing, which I find helps right on the spot, and catching breaks. Just like a job interview, I can see things going much smoother when a person is well-prepared.
It's odd that some people can just 'click'. With my few close friends, I socialize smoothly and naturally, sometimes I have a problem not shutting up. They bring me to a party, and I do a 180 with quiet stares and half smiles.
At some point with people, the fight-or-flight response can turn off, and I can simultaneously be with someone and actually experience relaxation. I don't have to worry if I'm awkward, or inappropriate with dire consequences. I speak my mind, and often people take interest.
Even though I hold these experiences, it doesn't help negate the other times, with the majority of other people.
Someone I knew well tried suggesting that I may have a testosterone problem, because of timidness and lack of drive. I jokingly showed him the rug of hair that grows over my back, and asked him to re-think.
I don't know if body hair has anything to do with testosterone though, maybe I do have problems or something.
My libido has always been good. I did experience a strange yet interesting rollercoaster with it from coming off of pills, but it has stabilized again.
Someone I knew well tried suggesting that I may have a testosterone problem, because of timidness and lack of drive. I jokingly showed him the rug of hair that grows over my back, and asked him to re-think.
Freud's definition of libido is not the same as the cultural definition of libido. Freudian libido is more of a motivational force. IMO, you have some form of debilitating neuroses.
Estrogen and testosterone both affect hair growth.
Avocados cause a spike in Freudian libido, along with other benefits, which is what makes it an effective tool. Eating lots of dark greens will strip estrogen and will make the spike more effective. The minerals and fatty oils would increase libido by creating a more effective neural network whereby connecting the id to the conscious.
Pills are horrible because they prevent you from creating a natural system to combat the problem. They effectively allow that part of your body to shrivel up and die, or squeeze every last drop of effectiveness out in a short period of time. Sometimes you need them but most of the time you are causing more harm than good.
Its not really that much of an issue for me anymore.
You just need to play along - understand the social "protocols of engagement" and just play along under the same narrative as the rest. Its a bit of a game although those in it don't realize it.
Most importantly though, just be totally comfortable with who you are, and wanted to be accepted for who you are. People are going to be more comfortable around you if you are comfortable with yourself. You are who you are, if you happen to come across as judgmental then so be it , it is who you are. As long as your judgmental nature is not driven by base motives, you should not feel guilty about it.
What I have noticed, is that the socializing (irl) takes a huge toll on the little energy that I'm trying to preserve. Also, I can't seem to think coherently and socialize at the same time. I can only do one or the other in the moment.
That's why it takes too much energy. If you felt confortable that is by leaving behind your fears about what people could think of you then you'll be free to enjoy de conversation. Maybe not as much as you enjoy debating about some technical issue but at least your chakra is likely to remain the same.
For me it used to be the same. In fact nowadays when i get introduced to a group of people lets say in a party i feel kinda forced and it is like my mind doesn't work but that is partially normal but it is not as it was before.
Once you accept that people won't see a bug in your face then you'll fell a lot more relaxed and it will be like your eyes will zoom out of the zone where your body is. Like you will be viewing yourself from beside you and from above of your new circle of "friends". And your will mind take control and your body will be its puppet. You'll see how they act and move your body accordingly.
It is a weird thing to explain but i have improved a lot when i realized that. But it came with time and naturally. Or maybe this is just my self defense mechanism XD.
Another aspect, is that I don't seem to have any interest in the topic of the small-talk conversation. Thus, I stop myself from adding anything, because it would only be stated with false interest.
It happens to me too. But i mean, if you want to adopt the i don't care posture, i'm too interesting for that then maybe with time you'll get drown in your own pit of topics. Sometimes i force myself to listen to the conversation and participate even if it is boring and add at least a little. I mean obviously i don't do it always cuz sometimes cba but in my view it is important, because it is something beyond knowledge what you are adquiring there. You have the opportunity of becoming a "normal" person for a while, to step into the real world and in my view it is important to keep a balance between reality and imagination.
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