Problems in Practice and Persistence at the Piano

[PapyrusAirplanes]

This is rather stupid, but I'm a bit frustrated with myself. I'm just wondering if any of you have been in similar situations and what you've done to overcome... laziness, disinterest, etc.

So I'm a pianist. I love music, I really do. But when an INTP is required to practice for 3+ hours every day, cracks begin to appear in motivation, and soon no practicing at all occurs. If I choose what to play, I'll practice for hours; but being assigned a piece is like being given a death sentence.

Also, once I have a piece "figured out" I have little desire to perfect it. Which is what being a performer is all about. For instance, I ace my Theory examinations, but putting the knowledge into action on an instrument is 6 times harder and 7 times less likely to happen. My professors have not been pleased as of late.


So here are a few questions:
1. Have you been in a similar situation?
2. How do you motivate yourself to do repetitive and/or in-depth work?
3. Do you have things that you do every day for the purpose of improvement? If so, what? How did you form those habits? Why do you continue to engage in them?


Thanks!

 

[smithcommajohn]

Wow, you pretty much described my past piano experiences to a T. Being forced to practice songs I had no interest in drove me nuts! And then once I learned the basic melody of the songs I did enjoy, I couldn't stand trying to get them consistently played correctly.

In the end, I moved on to other things. I don't think I have the temperament for playing instruments.

 

[cheese]

Moved on to other things too. Like forums. Piano's like an old passionate flame - only hurts when I return to it.

I've never practised consistently. I always binge practised and it failed me eventually, but it did work for quite a while. If I had consistently binge practised (instead of actually *dwindling* over the years till I did perhaps three hours every month or so), perhaps it would've continued to work.

I know all the professors say 'AT LEAST four hours every day', or some other number. But unless you're actually planning on becoming a concert pianist, I don't think it's necessary. To be the best you can be, sure you have to put in the effort. Otherwise, to simply get a goodish pass you can approach it like anything else.

If pieces bore you, do technique. It'll put you into the zone a whole lot easier, I find. Mindless practice is never the best sort, but it's better than nothing, and it keeps your hands in check. I actually find repetitive work like that has a tranquilising effect on me. Also leaves your mind free to do whatever else you want to. If you add in enough variation in tone, dynamics and touch, you won't need to do much more than learn whatever piece you've been assigned till you get to the point where you have it 'figured out', and your technique will be good enough to see you through it at an acceptable standard without too much work on detail (which alternately exhausted and energised me). You may not be your professors' favourite student, but they won't hate you.

Also, Ti is always weighing and troubleshooting. If repetitive work doesn't calm you down or make you happy in any way, then make sure you're fully engaged. There is a LOT to be gained (as I'm sure you know) from detailed work, and it's very stimulating to Ti to constantly refine what you're doing wrong, because it requires analysis. Approaching it mindfully might work better for you.

Basically: binge practice can work, repetitive technical work with enough pre-thought variations will get you through, and mindful practice can actually be *very* mentally stimulating to an INTP. I'm not sure if any of that is useful - perhaps/probably you already know it all.

The problem that remains is getting yourself to the point where you're engaged in that process. Involving yourself from a static position is something that will take effort. Ti is not the way to get yourself there. You will argue yourself away from the piano every time, either by wasting the day talking rubbish to yourself in your head, or finding reasons to procrastinate and do it later/not at all. Unfortunately I know the failure first-hand, but not the success. When I was motivated, I was tremendously motivated and didn't need tricks to keep me on track. When I wasn't motivated, I just flobbed around and gloobered myself into the ground.

One thing that *did* work for me: setting specific goals for each day. Like "today I will perfect dynamic progression in this phrase on page 1 of the Bach (Ti in process); learn two pages of the Beethoven (sheer fucking work, but Ti is involved too); analyse and mark out the major sections in the Rach's musical development and create a logical vision of the piece based on that structure (very Ti heavy, you should love this); and perfect the quality of my staccato in the Bartok (again, Ti in process)". Once I set the goal, it became much easier to work towards and accomplish, and your functions should step in naturally to help. *Especially* with the apparently boring detail work. Developing a method to create a particular aural effect requires a lot of analysis and innovation (down to movement tempo, tension, involvement of the body, etc). What sucked for me was being told exactly what to do. If that is what's happening with you, I sympathise, because then the technical/detail work really *does* become reminiscent of a trained monkey's drudgery. However, if it's *yours*, you will be much more excited about it and inclined to keep working. Putting what you've taught into practice always requires some thought though, so it's not a complete dead-end.

I was weak and let the overly precise instructions from teachers get me down. Don't do that; find some way to make your playing your own (not just musically but technically too, as far as that is possible), because that will activate your Ti and give you the continued interest you need. At least if mindless practice isn't fun for you (as it often is for me).

So: goals and involvement. But maybe you don't really want to be in the world of classical performance (I assume that's where you are). After a while, all my problems aside, I found it stifling and sort of dead. I found other avenues of music so much more rewarding, alive and creative. What you love in music might not be at all reflected in the work you're doing.

Still though, a degree's a degree. Apparently music degrees are looked upon pretty highly by law schools. (I think they were second or third on the preferred list in America, because of the high level of discipline involved.) That might be of interest to you (although I'm guessing that's even MORE drudgery to wade through that you would hate). And if not, it could be better to just get through this regardless, maybe switch your major away from performance to something more theory-related since you easily excel there - the piano aspect would require less real work and it's less suffocating. I mean, Ti-heavy analysis and refinement aside, after a while you just get to thinking if you really want to spend hours every day, by yourself, in a small sound-proofed room perfecting one phrase over and over and over. Is that what you want to do with your life? It doesn't stop even at the top, though it does get easier. Hammering on a piece too much always ruins it for me anyway; even many years later it retains a withered, wilted feeling. I remember this (mangled) quote from a member of an orchestra: "I've played so much I can no longer feel the music. All I do is scrape out notes." That's not where you want your love of music to take you.

Alright I've blah'd on far too long. Why are you in this course, btw?

 

[EditorOne]

My wife's grandfather may have found the perfect INTP solution. He never had lessons, but his wife was a proficient piano player and he found it interesting. So he sat down with her, figured out how it worked, and practiced two songs (pop songs from the 40s, like "Harbor Lights" or "My Prayer," something with lots and lots and lots of sixths and sevenths and minor sevenths and grace notes falling out all over the place, all that good stuff George Harrison loved. She led him through it, then he practiced on his own. However long it took -- this is ancient history and he's gone, so I have no idea -- when it was over he could sit down at any piano anywhere and play, proficiently and with feeling, exactly two fairly intimidating songs. Then when people asked for more he'd laugh modestly and step aside.

Really, doesn't that kind of hit the bulls eye?

He was probably borderline ENTP INTP, interested in stuff for its own sake with an occasional urge to prove to people who thought he was too quiet that if he wanted, he could out-do them at anything, whether conversation, dancing or playing (two songs) on the piano. Lived to the wonderful age of 98 and was fully functional mentally. I should be glad to do the same.

 

[Architect]

Glenn Gould never practiced, at least when he was older. Of course he must have spent considerable time when he was younger practicing, once he became proficient he didn't feel the need to keep banging the keys. He said something to the effect of "once I understand a piece, I know how to play it". I've had this experience in my own piano playing. Gould obviously was an NT, INTJ I might guess.

The mind works this way, you can practice simply by imagining playing a piece. Somehow the autonomous nervous system can't tell the difference between you imagining doing something and actually doing it. This has been substantiated both in studies and anecdotally. Schnabel did this when he was in Africa, by using a fake keyboard written on a piece of paper.

 

[EditorOne]

OH! In response to the original poster: How about this thought? You haven't mastered the piano, you're not even close to competency. When you have mastered the thing, you just sit there and play, no music, nothing, nail it first time out of the box. You know so much and are literally so much in tune that playing the piano is like talking to someone, it requires no thought, no exertion, everything is there when you need it with no hesitation.

When I was a young fellow long long ago in a galaxy far away, one of the people in my circle was a pianist who had mastered the thing to this extent. He used to annoy people at parties. Example: Some girl who had spent hours laboriously mastering a pop song called "Love is Blue" sat down at our battered upright in our homebuilt party shack in the woods where we'd go to avoid annoying our community. She slogged through it. He'd laugh, say it sounded interesting, and ask if he could try. Remember, first time he ever heard the song, he never listened to the radio. He duplicated the song note for note on the first go-round, asked if that was the way it went. Getting the go ahead, he then enriched the sound, getting a fuller range of tones and effects and drama, creating a masterpiece out of a ditty. Then he laughed again and ran through the song again, this time sarcastically, twisting its notation to wring bathos out of pathos. By this time the young lady who introduced him to the music is both in tears and enraged. "You said you never heard it!" she said. He just laughed.

That's competence. You there yet?

 

[Words]

So here are a few questions:
1. Have you been in a similar situation?
2. How do you motivate yourself to do repetitive and/or in-depth work?
3. Do you have things that you do every day for the purpose of improvement? If so, what? How did you form those habits? Why do you continue to engage in them?

I stick with natural motivation...

My opinion is if it bores you, then you shouldn't force yourself. Instead, what you can do is modify *it*, not you, in order for it to be fun. Things have their interesting and non-interesting attributes, so the solution should be to find a good way to minimize having to do the non-interesting ones. You can try substitution. Eat beans instead of meat. Eat fruits instead of vegetables. Get a tutor/friend instead of learning by yourself. what else...

 

[Minuend]

Bah, that sounds dreadful!

I have the same problem. One day I'm all excited about a subject, one week later I have to force myself to read about it.

Though, what has helped a little is that I roam the library and pick up whatever book I find interesting. That kinda gives me back the joy of reading and inspires me to pick up the book I abandoned. So maybe if you focus about playing some songs you really like for a day or two, perhaps it will be easier doing the boring stuff?

 

[Moocow]

EditorOne, your story is EXACTLY how I've learned guitar.

This is the only song I've consistently practiced for maybe 5 years now:

Spoiler

YouTube - ‪oscar lopez - classical soul‬‏

Besides, there is so much involved in playing just that song that I'm still learning a lot and can play other songs more easily because of it.

I WISH I could master an instrument to the extent that you mention in your next post, but it requires a lifetime of dedicated practice... real practice that forces you to push yourself to the limit every time and basically make you see every previous challenge as a joke. The guy that you mentioned probably practiced from a very early age.

 

[cheese]

^Well, also a fair amount of natural talent.

The ability to instantly pick up patterns, for instance. A lot of intelligence. Perfect pitch shouldn't be underestimated, and probably played one of the largest roles in EditorOne's story (although if he was watching the keyboard as the girl played it wouldn't be necessary), whereas most people have relative pitch.

The practice has to be in the right areas, too. Lots of self-driven musical exploration, rather than the trained-monkey stuff a lot of musicians (especially classical pianists) go through.

Of course, the people at the top/self-taught *genuine* musicians (who have truly mastered the musical system, instead of individual pieces, as EditorOne described) usually have that level of expertise.

But there's a huge group of people who are very adept at playing their instruments, and very skilled musicians in a number of areas, who just don't have much musical facility. Mostly because of practice and the way music is taught.

 

[Moocow]

I've always wondered if certain instruction styles teach students to stop teaching themselves.

 

[Nocturne]

3 hours a day? That's quite unrealistic. I made it to Grade 9 (Royal Conservatory) with only 3.5-5 hours a week! How are you not allowed to choose your own pieces? I do not understand this method of piano pedagogy. ....

1. No, oddly. My piano instructors urges me to practice more, but my family shows no interest whatsoever in my artistic pursuits. Yes, perhaps, because I don't exactly enjoy practicing just one piece over a long period of time. I prefer sight reading and occasional playback.

2. Hmmm... Hmmm... Perhaps how I may be able to improve it? Bring moments of suspense or other emotions? .... Hmmmm....

3. Sight reading.

As Words commented, natural motivation is key.

 

[EditorOne]

"I WISH I could master an instrument to the extent that you mention in your next post, but it requires a lifetime of dedicated practice... real practice that forces you to push yourself to the limit every time and basically make you see every previous challenge as a joke. The guy that you mentioned probably practiced from a very early age"

He did. And he was an exceptional fellow, with problems of the same order of magnitude as his talent. He was maybe 19 at the time of this incident -- we were still drinking illegally. When he was 12 he was scheduled for a recital at Carnegie Hall as some sort of child prodigy program. A couple of days before his performance, John F. Kennedy was shot in Dallas and the concert was cancelled. He was, after all the hype and practice and stress, very badly affected and very badly conflicted; all the rest of us of about the same age had enough to deal with just with the assassination of the President, but he had a lot more piled on.
But he was a joy to listen to when he sat down at the piano. Sometimes it seemed there were far more than 88 keys on the thing.
I had another friend who aspired to be a professional musician. He dabbled and doinked and found himself doing nothing after college, so he kind of hermitized himself and practiced on the guitar eight hours a day, bleeding fingers, the whole thing. He got very good, and got some work, but never lived the dream. He gave it a shot. Now he has his own limo service, which somehow serves the same purposes he thought he saw in music. I dunno.
Face it, none of us really wants to be a maestro. Stopping at "competence" is both a barrier and a boon for us. I just thought I'd goad the original poster into reassessing his understanding of "competence" before he finds a way to talk himself out of too much practicing.

I think another thought bearing on the original post: What about a change in instructor or instruction methods? Speaking from ignorance here (I can rememember three chords on the accordion) but aren't there various ways various instruments are taught these days?

 

[Sijov]

I have done this to piano so many times. And drums. And clarinet. And singing. And guitar.

I'm still a decent drummer, because I have a sense of rhythm and there's only seven or eight things to hit so you con't go too badly wrong, and I played in various bands at school and church about two hours a week for years. Singing is easy to stay reasonable at, you just sing. Piano is harder, and I still haphazardly practice, but it's only as I feel like it, and I put no pressure on myself to improve. I have gotten better in the past couple of years, but it's slower than I would with consistent practice.