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Power and will

Black Rose

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The words Master can be substituted with power, and slave would mean powerless and it would mean virtually the same thing.

Nietzsche implied that the Uberman came up with his own values. They lacked for nothing but created things. This creativity was bound to power. Self-regulation and self-control. Bertrand Russell anticipated the Uberman to have an IQ of 180. This was what was necessary to create one's own values.

Will to power is mental. To make up one's own mind and make something of one's own.

A poverty of mind makes up a person's lack of creative force. Or an excuse for it.

To lack and then say this lack is good is because it gives an imaginary power for a lack of power.

It may be that inferior or superior is not adequate to describe what is really the proper or improper evaluation of creative force. If one says they are superior when they are not this is an improper evaluation. The ability to exert one's will upon the medium of mind rather than a physical force is where we would look to see what value is being created. Power of the mind. Will of the mind. Control of the mind. To create, to bring into reality. There is a myriad of ways to do so. It is just that some have more mental control, more will than others.

The ability to create is derived from the ability to generate. There are very specific mechanisms in the brain that relate to generation. Mostly those that hold onto ideas to work them out. Effort/extra thought is not the issue but whether an idea requires more degrees of freedom one can handle.
 

EndogenousRebel

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I would argue that IQ is not relevant to creating values. If anything, I'm sure the best someone who advocates IQ validity would say that they would determine the quality of ones values.

It's more about giving one the tools and proper guidelines to make such values. IQ for example has no relation to being able to build a house. If someone with an IQ of 100 has the tools and guidelines to build a house, they will undoubtedly have the ability to build this house better than someone who doesn't have access to any of this.

When you're qualifying or quantifying someone's "superiority", you have to understand that there are multiple dimensions to this. Someone can have a higher "average" IQ. This only means that the sum of their cognitive IQ tests is higher. Someone however can have a higher spatial reasoning IQ that they in theory can leverage to access a certain aspect of intelligence the other person does not have access to.

This is an interesting idea.

Blooms Taxonomy is commonly used in pedagogy among teachers. But it has flaws.
1637174764177.png

It assumes/implies that there is superiority among cognitive functions. That to evaluate to an infinite extent is more valuable, yet predicated by analysis, application, understanding, remembering. With this model yes, if someone creates, they are by nature in some way superior to those that evaluate.

This interesting article I found challenges Bloom's Taxonomy.
1637175193377.png

The intent is for children, yes, but it's also meant to be more in line with 'Brain science'. Things have completely separate categories, where Understanding, Transforming, Generating have their own respective categories with no real ranking at all. This is because your brain doesn't work like that hierarchy. The brains is very much a machine that localizes lots of processes in different areas.

So I think the solution to your problem about superiority as a term not being adequate is to distinguish what exactly is superior in that respect.
 

Black Rose

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Cognition is more complex than just IQ. Unless IQ is redefined/transfigured. But it is a capacity to do many things that is the basis for classifying high or low ability (IQ). If I can do more this is higher. Creativity is classified by variety and quality. An original idea. But if we make more original ideas than average this is also "higher". Because we do more and are not repeating old patterns.

do more = high IQ | capacity
creative = nonrepeditive original patterns

cognition again is complex.
specialization and savant syndrome is what is the norm.
what can be done mentally has many facets.
not really a hierarchy but a coordination of areas.

the brain coordinates to do something. perhaps to do more than average.
 

Rook

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IQ measures how good one is at IQ tests.

Creativity is a subtle thing open to a myriad of interpretations, and in the eyes of certain beholders the crudest display is savoured as the highest art.
 

Black Rose

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Mind Development recognizes five levels of Postformal thought:

  1. Dialectical reasoning:
    In dialectics the resolution of two elements (thesis and antithesis) occurs due to contradiction or conflict resolving into a new thesis (and thus creating a new antithesis). Dialectic reasoning is a way of thinking which seeks to discover a whole new series of questions to be asked, rather than in finding 'once and for all' answers; it facilitates problem finding rather than just problem solving.
  2. Problem finding:
    Intelligence is the function of perceiving, posing and resolving problems. Problem finding means problem discovery - insight into what is missing in the existing picture of a situation. It is an aspect of divergent intelligence and requires initiative and creativity.
  3. Relativistic operations:
    Consideration of the relative, non-absolute nature of knowledge, which accepts contradiction as a basic aspect of reality.
  4. Reflective judgment:
    Beliefs are justified probabilistically using evidence and arguments; conclusions are defended as representing the most complete, most compelling, or most plausible understanding of an issue available to date, based on the current evidence. See the Scale of Reflective Judgment which follows below.
  5. Trialectic reasoning:
    Postformal operations use a more flexible logic than formal thinking, containing fewer assumptions. Although this logic is 'weaker,' it allows the development of new kinds of thinking. Trialectics is the final stage of Postformal operations. Moving beyond Dialectic argument which is based on contradiction, we can look at the pros and cons of an argument trialectically, which includes the ability to think with Three Valued Logic: thesis and antithesis exist but are viewed in a qualitatively different way, and the resolution between them is through complementarity or cooperation, giving rise to a higher degree of insight, in which a new thesis is incorporated or synthesized.

Metacognition
Metacognition is thinking about thinking, knowing "what we know" and "what we don't know." Just as an executive's job is management of an organization, a thinker's job is management of thoughts. The basic metacognitive strategies are:
  1. Connecting new information to former knowledge.
  2. Selecting thinking strategies deliberately.
  3. Planning, monitoring, and evaluating thinking processes.

Beyond Postformal operations: Mature Intuition and the Metavert State
The formal approach to consciousness, simplistically, recognizes identity as the fundamental element. It allows for a fixed, static, identifiable world. In a formal world we can know what to expect. In dialectics the resolution of two elements (thesis and antitheses) occurs due to contradiction or conflict resolving into a new thesis (and thus creating a new antithesis). The process goes on and on. Moving beyond dialectic argument, however, we can look at the pros and cons of an argument trialectically. These two elements exist but are viewed in a qualitatively different way, and the resolution between them is through complementarity or cooperation, giving rise to a higher degree of insight. Students will get glimpses of this higher realm, a taste of true wisdom, just as they may have peak experiences that offer a glimpse into the transpersonal or spiritual aspects of their being, but serious work with the techniques of Mind Development will increasingly make this a daily experience and domain general, rather than just in a specific area of expertise.


Trialectic reasoning is the transitional phase between the fifth stage of Postformal Operations and the sixth stage of intellectual development, Mature Intuition.


When Postformal Operations have been internalized, practiced to the degree of effortless competence, on not just a domain-specific (one's area of expert knowledge and competence) but on a domain-general basis, a sixth stage of development then naturally follows, called Mature Intuition. Work on the advanced courses of Mind Development will be of invaluable assistance in this process. When this stage is reached, all significant cognitive structures of the first five stages have sufficient maturity to be utilized pre-reflectively or intuitively. The individual can then make use of his creative and intuitive skills to become a breakthrough thinker and leader.


This state transcends introvert and extravert orientations - it is 'Metavert' - the individual can chose introspective introversion or expressive extraversion, as appropriate to his circumstances and needs. He has no neurotic compulsions nor inhibitions regarding one or the other; he is essentially free of Superego control. He can focus internally or externally at will, rather than being driven by the conditioning of his experiences and upbringing.


One may ask the question, "Does all thought take place in words?" It should now be evident that it is a question of degree. When we are dealing with a low level of abstraction, concerning concrete objects, we may think entirely without words. As we ascend the ladder of abstraction, words form an increasing part of our mental content. It may appear, from superficial observation, that people operate non-verbally at high levels of abstraction. In most cases this is an illusion... some form of imagery is being used, as a surrogate language. There is, however, Intuitive Thinking. This is not thinking in the same sense; it consists of mental operations at high speed, often in parallel and outside the frame of consciousness. At the cognitive level of Mature Intuition, words are sometimes used; however, because of the speed of the process - typically the speed of thought exceeds 1,200 words per minute and continues subcognitively - and because the process occurs largely outside of awareness as an intuitive process, there is an illusion of non-verbal thought. We can't think in terms of the speed of inner speech anymore, because in this Metavert state, thinking is transverbal.


Thought, in the Metavert state of Mature Intuition is post-symbolic and post-reflective - it is beyond language and beyond the scale of Reflective Judgment given above. The Metavert does not have to think reflectively, he just knows - all the reflective judgments are being made at high speed beneath the surface of consciousness, an intuitional process. He has access to the contents of both the affective and the cognitive subconscious as resources for intuition (see The Cognitive Unconscious).


The Metavert state of Mature Intuition is not a transpersonal state; there is no sense of union with the Infinite and God. One, however, is illuminated in a certain sense. In the Metavert state one operates at a higher harmonic of intelligence, that of Certainty. Most of a Metavert's thinking is intuitive; by this I mean that one perceives, poses and resolves problems intuitively. Most of a Metavert's thinking is transverbal and visual; one is thinking in meanings rather than words; one only needs to think conventionally when one makes conclusions and in order to explain things to another person. One can do this easily, because one retains access to all the skills of Formal and Postformal thought, so much of one's experience at the Metavert level can be translated into words.


At this final stage of mind development the intellect is integrated with feeling and both of these functions are put on automatic. The remaining active thinking continues the level of the Ego or conscious self. However, the functioning of the Ego itself becomes witnessed - a higher and transcendent state of consciousness. One of the hallmarks of this state is that the self is not involved with the world. Thinking, feeling and perception can function below the level of conscious attention, just as muscular motor coordination is generally automatic and apparently unconnected to attentional processing. The entire brain literally runs in parallel, and attention ceases to be a bottleneck in any cognitive processes; attention moves to the witnessing meta-intelligence.


 

ZenRaiden

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Ubermensch or overman is beyond common values.

The normal values that normally crop up.

Most people don't have for example ethical concerns or moral concerns.

Nietzsche was too optimistic.
 

Black Rose

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"I teach you the overman. Man is something that shall be overcome. What have you done to overcome him?
All beings so far have created something beyond themselves; and do you want to be the ebb of this great flood and even go back to the beasts rather than overcome man? What is the ape to man? A laughingstock or a painful embarrassment. And man shall be just that for the overman: a laughingstock or a painful embarrassment...
Behold, I teach you the overman. The overman is the meaning of the earth.Let your will say: the overman shall be the meaning of the earth! I beseech you, my brothers, remain faithful to the earth, and do not believe those who speak to you of otherworldly hopes! Poison-mixers are they, whether they know it or not. Despisers of life are they, decaying and poisoned themselves, of whom the earth is weary: so let them go.
Once the sin against God was the greatest sin; but God died, and these sinners died with him. To sin against the earth is now the most dreadful thing, and to esteem the entrails of the unknowable higher than the meaning of the earth...
What is the greatest experience you can have? It is the hour of the great contempt. The hour when your happiness, too, arouses your disgust, and even your reason and your virtue.
The hour when you say, 'What matters my happiness? It is poverty and filth and wretched contentment. But my happiness ought to justify existence itself.'
The hour when you say, 'What matters my reason? Does it crave knowledge as the lion his food? It is poverty and filth and wretched contentment.'
The hour when you say, 'What matters my virtue? As yet it has not made me rage. How weary I am of my good and my evil! All that is poverty and filth and wretched contentment.'
"Man is a rope, tied between beast and overman--a rope over an abyss...
What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end: what can be loved in man is that he is an overture and a going under...

"I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. I say unto you: you still have chaos in yourselves.
Alas, the time is coming when man will no longer give birth to a star. Alas, the time of the most despicable man is coming, he that is no longer able to despise himself. Behold, I show you the last man.
'What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star?' thus asks the last man, and blinks.
The earth has become small, and on it hops the last man, who makes everything small. His race is as ineradicable as the flea; the last man lives longest.
'We have invented happiness,'say the last men, and they blink. They have left the regions where it was hard to live, for one needs warmth. One still loves one's neighbor and rubs against him, for one needs warmth...
One still works, for work is a form of entertainment. But one is careful lest the entertainment be too harrowing. One no longer becomes poor or rich: both require too much exertion. Who still wants to rule? Who obey? Both require too much exertion.
No shepherd and one herd! Everybody wants the same, everybody is the same: whoever feels different goes voluntarily into a madhouse.
'Formerly, all the world was mad,' say the most refined, and they blink...
One has one's little pleasure for the day and one's little pleasure for the night: but one has a regard for health.
'We have invented happiness,' say the last men, and they blink."

from Nietzsche's Thus spoke Zarathustra, p.3,4,5, Walter Kaufmann transl.
 

ZenRaiden

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"I teach you the overman. Man is something that shall be overcome. What have you done to overcome him?
All beings so far have created something beyond themselves; and do you want to be the ebb of this great flood and even go back to the beasts rather than overcome man? What is the ape to man? A laughingstock or a painful embarrassment. And man shall be just that for the overman: a laughingstock or a painful embarrassment...
Behold, I teach you the overman. The overman is the meaning of the earth.Let your will say: the overman shall be the meaning of the earth! I beseech you, my brothers, remain faithful to the earth, and do not believe those who speak to you of otherworldly hopes! Poison-mixers are they, whether they know it or not. Despisers of life are they, decaying and poisoned themselves, of whom the earth is weary: so let them go.
Once the sin against God was the greatest sin; but God died, and these sinners died with him. To sin against the earth is now the most dreadful thing, and to esteem the entrails of the unknowable higher than the meaning of the earth...
What is the greatest experience you can have? It is the hour of the great contempt. The hour when your happiness, too, arouses your disgust, and even your reason and your virtue.
The hour when you say, 'What matters my happiness? It is poverty and filth and wretched contentment. But my happiness ought to justify existence itself.'
The hour when you say, 'What matters my reason? Does it crave knowledge as the lion his food? It is poverty and filth and wretched contentment.'
The hour when you say, 'What matters my virtue? As yet it has not made me rage. How weary I am of my good and my evil! All that is poverty and filth and wretched contentment.'
"Man is a rope, tied between beast and overman--a rope over an abyss...
What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end: what can be loved in man is that he is an overture and a going under...

"I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. I say unto you: you still have chaos in yourselves.
Alas, the time is coming when man will no longer give birth to a star. Alas, the time of the most despicable man is coming, he that is no longer able to despise himself. Behold, I show you the last man.
'What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star?' thus asks the last man, and blinks.
The earth has become small, and on it hops the last man, who makes everything small. His race is as ineradicable as the flea; the last man lives longest.
'We have invented happiness,'say the last men, and they blink. They have left the regions where it was hard to live, for one needs warmth. One still loves one's neighbor and rubs against him, for one needs warmth...
One still works, for work is a form of entertainment. But one is careful lest the entertainment be too harrowing. One no longer becomes poor or rich: both require too much exertion. Who still wants to rule? Who obey? Both require too much exertion.
No shepherd and one herd! Everybody wants the same, everybody is the same: whoever feels different goes voluntarily into a madhouse.
'Formerly, all the world was mad,' say the most refined, and they blink...
One has one's little pleasure for the day and one's little pleasure for the night: but one has a regard for health.
'We have invented happiness,' say the last men, and they blink."

from Nietzsche's Thus spoke Zarathustra, p.3,4,5, Walter Kaufmann transl.
Sounds a lot like a communism that was envisioned a century ago.

Anyway the point he is making is that work we do is pointless,
the wheels people invented are purely artificial even religious ones
and he is right,
A same point is made, but more aptly in Simulacra and simulation.

He is also explaining the internal struggle people have a divide between a civilization the Apollonian rational side of mankind that gave rise to modern world and necessity to sustain our Dionysian side and frivolous joy to be complete.

In the video above the historian quite aptly explains how humanism killed religion as authority which Nietzsche is lamenting over here in this part. We killed God means he destroyed Gods authority to be replaced by humans.

The problem is what does it mean to be human?

He thinks being human is a kind of schism between two worlds the ape and man and to be more in line with that thought he divided the man into two the Apollonian and Dionysian.

The old morals of religion that gave rise to virtue, and cycle of life no longer are in human possession nor interest and he was right.
Today he would be more right than ever.
 

Black Rose

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Once we are all caesars society will be about equality in labor and art.

JOAwzE2.png
 

DoIMustHaveAnUsername?

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"Bertrand Russell anticipated the Uberman to have an IQ of 180."
Source?
 

Black Rose

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Mental control is not that hard to figure out. It is the ability to hold a mental object and manipulate it. The tricky thing to do is measure this. Most IQ tests measure what can be manipulated externally but not internally. And they don't do it too well. Mental objects are also so irregular that specialization is necessary to manipulate them. And this makes communication difficult. People must have the same objects in their heads to communicate.

At some point, complexity reaches a certain point that a threshold is reached in a meaningful transition. This makes things qualifiably different.

The ubermensch is sufficiently complex enough to have made a discovery above man's normal intellect. If apes have IQs of 20 man is 80 points higher and 100. The ubermensch makes the same leap of ape to man of 80 to 180. 80 above 100. The ubermensch is 120 above apes 80 above man. Ape is to man what man is to the ubermensch. The complexity has increased that much.
 

scorpiomover

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The words Master can be substituted with power, and slave would mean powerless and it would mean virtually the same thing.
Nietzsche implied that the Uberman came up with his own values.
Most people learn by hearing ideas from others, including values. The only values you can say the Uberman came up with, are those ideas that he didn't hear from anyone else.

Thus, Ubermen do not share any values.

Will to power is mental. To make up one's own mind and make something of one's own.
One cannot make up one's mind to do that which he believes is impossible.

It is easy to persevere until something happens, if you think it is easily attainable.

Ergo, Will to Power is based on if you are sure that you can do it, or not.

A poverty of mind makes up a person's lack of creative force. Or an excuse for it.
Are you sure?

If one says they are superior when they are not this is an improper evaluation.
If someone has a Will to Power, who says he will make things happen, then he chooses to make his life more powerful and better. He seeks to make himself more superior than he is right now => he says he is superior when he is not.

Thus, your claim would indicate that you think that Will to Power is an improper evaluation.

The ability to exert one's will upon the medium of mind rather than a physical force is where we would look to see what value is being created.
If it stays in the mind, then reality is no different. it is the physical that gives the will form and shape, that defines the results of what is being made and formed by the will.
 

ZenRaiden

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Mental control is not that hard to figure out. It is the ability to hold a mental object and manipulate it. The tricky thing to do is measure this. Most IQ tests measure what can be manipulated externally but not internally. And they don't do it too well. Mental objects are also so irregular that specialization is necessary to manipulate them. And this makes communication difficult. People must have the same objects in their heads to communicate.
This is either pure nonsense or too many ideas in short order.

My guess is you have some ideas and lump them together.

Inner world and outter world maybe different, but how do you know its not the same process as IQ? Why would the same parts of brain not be used for the same thing, that is figuring things out??

My guess is human bodies aim for efficiency, otherwise physically we would have massive biceps for no good reasons. Just for heck of it. Realistically our biceps is tiny and is hard to grow despite gym member ship, because its useless muscle 99 percent of the time. So our bodies don't grow it to massive size like muscle in legs.

Same principals go for brain. Our brain does not duplicate stuff unless duplicating something is beneficial or more efficient than using the same volume of brain that is already used for other things. One main reason we have so many associative things happening in our head is to make sure we use as little brain as possible to solve as much as possible. That way the organ that takes for ever to work and uses up so much energy can be fast and lightning efficient to makes us avoid useless thinking.

So are you sure the inner world is processed by a different brain part.

I think realistically everything gets processed with similar brain parts, but memories are in different parts of the mind.

HOwever I also have hypothesized that some memories are part of processing mind.
Much like RAM in computer, but its taken from harddisk then shoved into RAM and then processed for purpose we choose.

Honestly what are you trying to say. Cannot make sense of most of your post sorry to say. Heck maybe you are right, we will probably never know.

At some point, complexity reaches a certain point that a threshold is reached in a meaningful transition. This makes things qualifiably different.

The ubermensch is sufficiently complex enough to have made a discovery above man's normal intellect. If apes have IQs of 20 man is 80 points higher and 100. The ubermensch makes the same leap of ape to man of 80 to 180. 80 above 100. The ubermensch is 120 above apes 80 above man. Ape is to man what man is to the ubermensch. The complexity has increased that much.

IQ scores are not linear. IQ 100 and 120 and 140 are qualitatively different. Not quantifiable. The scale is number, but the output is not a number rather a different hue of color.

At 180 you are dealing with different thinking in some ways, but very simple in others. Respectively education, knowledge and experience make a unique mix and that unique mix is multiplied by IQ. Its not something you can compare. Oranges and apples if you think like that.

Also I have no idea what you mean by complexity.

For example you can have a person with IQ 250 and all he ever be is Connan the barbarian. Just a hoard master with big sword and bad fashion sense.

Or respectively a high achieving scientist with huge repertoire of knowledge.

Or a profoundly good artist.

None of those people can be particularly moral or ethical at the same time none of them specifically be sporting the right values or any values for that matter different from the bus driver who takes them to work.

But then again if scientist making the atomic bomb had some sort of qualms with making the bomb someone else might have beat them to it.

So what values are there if not moral or ethical? Some math formula waiting to happen to make humans more upright or correct or better?
 

Black Rose

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Self-control is not just physical but also mental. Thinking requires shifts in attention which is the same as action but placed on inner perception. Back and forth reflection. Working on thought. The thought object.

The ape, man, ubermensch distinction is in mental control. what an ape can do as mental control is outstripped by man. This goes the same for the difference in mental control of man and the ubermensch.

Will to power is about control. Exerting ones will require the will be intelligent or else all you have are lumps of matter (rocks). Will is intelligent thus control exists as a force by which what is determined can be achieved. The will is internally controlled giving leverage to external control. Effort is managed greatly no like the will of a rock.
 

ZenRaiden

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The thought object.
What do you mean. What object? I suppose beer is not the object?

Apes are intelligent. People know this, because their intelligence mimicks ours, or our intelligence is much like theirs, but apes outperform humans in some ways, in some ways humans outperform apes.

You still dodged the idea of ubermensch. Is a kid playing computer games all night an ubermensch? I mean there is tremendous amount of self control and no doubt intellect involved with playing computer games.

So how much intelligence and self control are we talking about?

Internal control and external control are purely theoretical concepts.
They are both no doubt linked.
 

Black Rose

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The thought object.
What do you mean.

if you are doing math in your head the thought object is numbers

if you are designing a boat in your head it's probably the mast or propeller.

if music in your head, the notes

So how much intelligence and self control are we talking about?

The difference between man and ape
is the same difference between man and ubermensch.

That much.

Internal control and external control are purely theoretical concepts.
They are both no doubt linked.

:)
 

Black Rose

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On the official IQ test I took, I got low working memory. What this is, is the memory of something in order to use it in that instance. I can just about manipulate 4 things in my mind at once. So to say I am no mental math expert. I remember that an IQ 170 person can do 14 digits of math. Because that is what they hold in their heads.

I doubt an ape can do mental math like a human can. Mental manipulation is a very weak ability I have but I have a small enough amount to realize how useful it is. I can tell the difference between my internal and external ability to manipulate. This difference lets me compare what I am capable of.

What I figured out is that the front of the brain controls the internal. The back of the brain controls the external. From my subjective evaluation, My ability externally is 6 times my internal ability. This makes me an extravert mentally. Boredom is a real problem for me because I need to be thinking by doing more than thinking alone. I really have problems holding thoughts. I have too many. They pop in and out and I lose track.

My anxiety has alot to do with being unable to think.

emm537b.gif
 

ZenRaiden

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On the official IQ test I took, I got low working memory. What this is, is the memory of something in order to use it in that instance. I can just about manipulate 4 things in my mind at once. So to say I am no mental math expert. I remember that an IQ 170 person can do 14 digits of math. Because that is what they hold in their heads.

I doubt an ape can do mental math like a human can. Mental manipulation is a very weak ability I have but I have a small enough amount to realize how useful it is. I can tell the difference between my internal and external ability to manipulate. This difference lets me compare what I am capable of.

What I figured out is that the front of the brain controls the internal. The back of the brain controls the external. From my subjective evaluation, My ability externally is 6 times my internal ability. This makes me an extravert mentally. Boredom is a real problem for me because I need to be thinking by doing more than thinking alone. I really have problems holding thoughts. I have too many. They pop in and out and I lose track.

My anxiety has alot to do with being unable to think.

emm537b.gif
All good and well.

So what has this got to do with the will to power?
What you have is what you have.

From what I understand here is you are trying to figure out something unrelated to with another thing unrelated with another thing unrelated...... based of of what?
 

Black Rose

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Well, what we got allows us to exert with certain effectiveness. I believe we all have potential. and to live up to it we need to self-evaluate. From age 12 I have been working on artificial intelligence. So it is my belief that understanding intelligence will make me smarter and build a friend like in the movies. I look at it from many angles. the will to power is to me meta-intelligence. Using intelligence to create more.

That is my life goal.
 

ZenRaiden

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Well, what we got allows us to exert with certain effectiveness. I believe we all have potential. and to live up to it we need to self-evaluate. From age 12 I have been working on artificial intelligence. So it is my belief that understanding intelligence will make me smarter and build a friend like in the movies. I look at it from many angles. the will to power is to me meta-intelligence. Using intelligence to create more.

That is my life goal.
That is a good goal.
 

scorpiomover

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Well, what we got allows us to exert with certain effectiveness. I believe we all have potential. and to live up to it we need to self-evaluate.
Scorates would agree with you.

From age 12 I have been working on artificial intelligence.
What have you achieved? Have you built AIs?

So it is my belief that understanding intelligence will make me smarter and build a friend like in the movies. I look at it from many angles.
What have you theorised that matches what we can observe empirically & repeatedly in real life?

the will to power is to me meta-intelligence. Using intelligence to create more.
My anxiety has alot to do with being unable to think.
If that was true, then you could have just WILLED yourself to think.
Did that work?

On the official IQ test I took, I got low working memory. What this is, is the memory of something in order to use it in that instance. I can just about manipulate 4 things in my mind at once. So to say I am no mental math expert. I remember that an IQ 170 person can do 14 digits of math. Because that is what they hold in their heads.
Anxiety has a strong correlation with low scores in tests that measure working memory. When you're very emotional, your rational thinking parts shut down, like a CPU that overheats.

Boredom is a real problem for me because I need to be thinking by doing more than thinking alone. I really have problems holding thoughts. I have too many. They pop in and out and I lose track.
That's an extremely common trait with NPs.

My anxiety has alot to do with being unable to think.
If you can't think, why not just do what the morons do? They seem happy, and mostly seem to have jobs, girlfriends, etc. So why can't you be happy and do OK like morons?
 

Black Rose

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What have you achieved? Have you built AIs?

I built a small simulation of the cortex in java.

What have you theorised that matches what we can observe empirically & repeatedly in real life?

An attention mechanism in simulating the world and one's reaction to it. On how one reacts by paying attention. Feedback to learn what reaction enforce survival and that thinking is attention folded upon itself.

Anxiety has a strong correlation with low scores in tests that measure working memory. When you're very emotional, your rational thinking parts shut down, like a CPU that overheats.
If that was true, then you could have just WILLED yourself to think.

I did overcome the anxiety by holding it back. So I did will myself to think just I did not will myself to be einstein.

If you can't think, why not just do what the morons do? They seem happy, and mostly seem to have jobs, girlfriends, etc. So why can't you be happy and do OK like morons?

I also get anxious if I don't think. The first problem is not to think too much but not thinking at all is worse. Its become an ingrained habit because ever since elementary school I have been thinking. I just do not have any other hobbies. I don't watch tv or do sports or do things with friends. All I do is think and listen to music.

If I learn to calm down I will be happy at my level of thinking.
The problem I have now is finding help to do my ideas.
I need help refining them.

I find external things to ponder but they need to be what I want to think about I am picky on the problems I solve.

I think when I get the Prozac I will be better.

rXKUWPW.jpg
 

Black Rose

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Thanks to the Prozac and my new earbuds I am able to focus and will myself to resist the anxiety. I look at the negative feelings well trying not to react to them. The monkey mind's solution is motion. The real solution is stillness and awareness.
 

Black Rose

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IQ scores are not linear. IQ 100 and 120 and 140 are qualitatively different. Not quantifiable. The scale is number, but the output is not a number rather a different hue of color.

At 180 you are dealing with different thinking in some ways, but very simple in others. Respectively education, knowledge and experience make a unique mix and that unique mix is multiplied by IQ. Its not something you can compare. Oranges and apples if you think like that.

If we think of it as a network where the input and output must go through a matrix (MxM) then we have a model. internal processing is greater or lesser. like a blender with ingredients going at variable speed. Now what we are trying to pin down is what distinctions are made at a global level. The top manipulation function. This function g would allow access to all of the global workspace and the matrix being the global workspace would add or subtract to functionality. A factory with a manager. (central executive)

IQ is a global workspace with a manager.

The hue would be a management strategy.
 

EndogenousRebel

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IQ scores are not linear. IQ 100 and 120 and 140 are qualitatively different. Not quantifiable. The scale is number, but the output is not a number rather a different hue of color.

At 180 you are dealing with different thinking in some ways, but very simple in others. Respectively education, knowledge and experience make a unique mix and that unique mix is multiplied by IQ. Its not something you can compare. Oranges and apples if you think like that.

If we think of it as a network where the input and output must go through a matrix (MxM) then we have a model. internal processing is greater or lesser. like a blender with ingredients going at variable speed. Now what we are trying to pin down is what distinctions are made at a global level. The top manipulation function. This function g would allow access to all of the global workspace and the matrix being the global workspace would add or subtract to functionality. A factory with a manager. (central executive)

IQ is a global workspace with a manager.

The hue would be a management strategy.
Evolution has apparently illustrated that a pretty good strategy for survival is random experimentation (mutation).

This is also incidentally how we discover a lot new drugs that might work. We simply cannot not know what will work or will not work. It's a combination of knowing the fundamentals, and luck. We never knew that mushing milk, and bananas into a "shake" would be good on an innate level. Most of our biggest discoveries have been random accidents.

It's just that the properties of these things along with the abstract concept of fusing things together happened to be a good combination for us. Of course the same with inventing a blender to streamline the process.

Of course, we shape tools, and then the tools shape us. So what do we lose/trade away when we create tools all around us that cut out what we perceive as menial and irrelevant tasks? Such as, blending, making our own shirts, wishing our families happy birthday.

If you somehow randomly get ahead of the scientist that have been trying to crack the code on intelligence, let us know. I think it's pretty clear cut with games. Specific skills may be transferable, but once you take the context of where those skills are applied, you're liable to have to start over. Maybe develop general principles.

I'm sure that if you somehow find intrinsic value in all your experiences, you might not care too much about being all that smart. So take pleasure in consuming knowledge is your best bet, and do your experiments on the side.
 

Black Rose

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It is called catastrophic forgetting and has been solved in toy models. Yes, randomness is part of creativity but it is about hierarchy for organizing and not forgetting. But the main thing we do is to test and hypothesize. I have a fractal model of this. You look at what you are doing and see if it is working, this goes up and down recurrently in the fractal. You change what you are doing if it's not working and you remember what did not work. I'm still working on it yet it does have an executive part. To backtrack if you get things wrong. Keep all steps in mind well fixing missteps.
 

EndogenousRebel

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It is called catastrophic forgetting and has been solved in toy models. Yes, randomness is part of creativity but it is about hierarchy for organizing and not forgetting. But the main thing we do is to test and hypothesize. I have a fractal model of this. You look at what you are doing and see if it is working, this goes up and down recurrently in the fractal. You change what you are doing if it's not working and you remember what did not work. I'm still working on it yet it does have an executive part. To backtrack if you get things wrong. Keep all steps in mind well fixing missteps.
The OODA Loop is a concept that sounds familiar to this.

There's also the MoHub framwork, which I think reduces that model to something more abstract and simple.
1640247292226.png


That point about "perceived behavioral options" is tangential with the knowledge/experience/emotional state you have. If you mean, by 'forgetting', that one wouldn't know what information to apply to such a situation, well that's a tough one. Even though we in theory have all the same information, there are things that are stopping of from finding and selecting the "best" information and see that as one of our optional solutions.

Being able to decipher symbols and phenomena, selecting the weak points of the constructs we build and picking a strongest one among them. It's hard. Especially since the environment is dynamic and always changing. You'd constantly have to ask yourself "what is missing?' 'Why is it missing?" in a meaningful way.
 

ZenRaiden

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With intelligence you also have to count in added interest rate.
In some ways intelligence adds to speed flexibility in some ways adds clarity coherence detail etc. Which perhaps does not correlate with iq always. Or maybe strategy how you think and those come in many variations.
 

EndogenousRebel

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Self-regulation I think would be a larger component of "optimal performance".

Some people have a past that requires that they have high levels of self-regulation, someone with PTSD for example. This hinders their performance. Almost like it's an app that's always running in the background, while others don't have to run it, so they get an edge with FPS and connectivity.

Still, it doesn't solve the problem of speed if you upgrade those (self-regulation) background apps, if your graphics card and network adapter are shit, and others are top of the line. They can play with higher resolutions and interface with many more access points at the same time.

The only way to really improve is repetition. Understanding exactly what you need to succeed and just repeating it as much as you can. And if you are competing with people who are doing the same repetitions, then you must innovate somehow if you want to get ahead. Maybe in your routine practice, or application method, strategy. Something.
 

Black Rose

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I dropped out of college.

I can't do research. not adequately.

 

EndogenousRebel

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I dropped out of college.

I can't do research. not adequately.

It's not rocket science. In fact science papers all follow the same organized formats specifically so it's easy to get the gist of them and dive deeper if you need to. I would start by looking at APA format, it's the easiest and least intimidating if you don't actually want to look at sources. MLA is dreadful. Chicago style citations are reminiscing of what's used on Wikipedia, my favorite. "Here you dumb mother fucker, the source is right there"

It's a habit, but once you get the momentum and the action loops down, anything can be addicting.
 

EndogenousRebel

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Also would like to point out that what I am saying is very reminiscent of what that jackal is saying. Being creative has nothing to do with being able to input information into your brain. If anything, no one will care about your creativity unless it is relevant to the world.
 

ZenRaiden

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After the world went industrial values gradually became more and more subjective. WW I was fought purely for hierarchy. Most people did not know why the war happened.
Millions died for lines made on maps. Pure fiction.
Nietzsche saw that people manufacture power. Power exist only pure abstract.
Power is made in the minds of sheep if we want to call them that.
 

Black Rose

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I think it is like having fine vs gross motor control. Power is in many forms.
 

Black Rose

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Let's talk more on the global workspace. I think it can be divided into long-term and short-term memory. Into perception and action.

Zj18JAh.png


All items can be brought to a basic function of information processing. Serientipishly as a reflection back and forth in a processor.

now reflection is just a form of feedback. so the global workspace is about feeding into itself in such a way as to be "intelligent". what is being controlled are the 4 examples in the chart by feedback.
 

DoIMustHaveAnUsername?

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I can't do research. not adequately.
Learn fundamentals for MITx OpenCourseWare. Read recommended textbooks.
After learning fundamentals read related research works. Start with some paper for a reputed journal/conference that you are interested, use semantic scholar and google scholar to explore newer works that cite it. Look into the references to find older works that contextualize it. Come up with a novel idea. An easy (imperfect) heuristic to determine whether your work is novel is to find a relatively recent paper which is very relevant to your idea but which refers to no work that discusses about your idea or mention anything similar to your idea. Then look through newere papers that cites the chosen paper (through semantic scholar and google scholar). See anyone mentions your ideas. If no one did, submit your idea as novel. Write and submit a paper to conference and/or journal. Get peer reviewed and published.
 

Black Rose

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network Φ motion Ψ deviation σ

11v4E9V.png
 
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