Poverty

[Cognisant]

I think the writers of Black Library books (i.e. Games Workshop, Warhammer 40k) should visit southeast Asia to experience what a hive city would actually be like, which is being unfair to places like Manila and Bangkok because although they're bad they're not as bad in the ways a WH40k hive city is bad. Rather I think the writers would benefit from a more nuanced understanding of poverty, in these places there's a lot of incredibly poor people living in absolutely horrific conditions, but they do live, they do have homes and jobs and families. They might eat only rice for most of their meals and live in homes that look straight out of Megaton in Fallout III, but they don't see themselves as poor, they don't beg or steal, they're not unwashed or unkempt, despite everything they have their dignity. In that they're they same as anyone else from anywhere else.

And then there's Australian bogans who have no dignity at all, who are compelled to vandalize and destroy everything, who all seem to have incredibly dysfunctional families, these are people who might attack you just because you're there and they don't really have anything better to do.

I find that fascinating because Australia is a fairly young country and during our colonial phase most people lived hard lives in harsh conditions, they weren't poor as such, there's a lot of opportunity in a developing nation, but they were very far from the rest of human civilization, they had to make do with what little they had. They weren't bogans.

I haven't really come to any conclusion about all this, but it's interesting data, I feel like once I have a few more pieces of the puzzle some great insight will come into focus.

 

[fractalwalrus]

One possible thing to consider here, I think, is the idea that it is not poverty alone that will often turn one more towards aggression and anti-social behavior as much as it is visible income inequality. I do not know the details of Southeast Asian wealth distribution, but I am aware that Western nations tend to emphasize the role of wealth in one's worth and social standing, and that our media tends to flaunt it. Figures like Andrew Tate tend to exacerbate this message and imply that people without money are worthless. One could imagine that this does not do wonders for the psyche. In a culture that values creativity or reason, all the sudden the poor but gifted person is in demand, and therefore has no desire to "burn their village down." I know many Asian nations have become more Westernized, but it could be the case that those cultures you speak of do not hold the poor in such low regard. In fact, this was not always the case in the Western Nations, either. See early Christianity and its attitudes and promises to the poor. Here's a link to a study which shows the connection I speak of: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0014292119301230

 

[dr froyd]

in a poor country, all you need to be in order to be poor is normal. In a rich country, poverty will correlate with things like alcoholism, drug abuse, lack of education, opportunistic criminal behavior etc.

not saying all poor people in developed nations are like that by any means, we are talking about correlations. Main point here is: sampling bias

 

[fractalwalrus]

in a poor country, all you need to be in order to be poor is normal. In a rich country, poverty will correlate with things like alcoholism, drug abuse, lack of education, opportunistic criminal behavior etc.

not saying all poor people in developed nations are like that by any means, we are talking about correlations. Main point here is: sampling bias

Basically what I said, but put much more succinctly. When we all have cucumbers, its fine. Give some of us grapes while most of the others have cucumbers, and then tell the grape eaters that they are justified in feeling their contempt towards the cucumber munchers whilst telling the cucumber consumers that it is entirely their fault that they have cucumbers and not grapes (even when the grape hoarders control the grape distribution system), well, people might not like that. Some commit acts of despair (suicide, substance abuse, etc) and others lash out. There is some degree of variance to these things. This all sounds simplistic, but I can assure you my simple analogy is grounded in a knowledge base and I did not simply excrete it at random.

 

[scorpiomover]

I think the writers of Black Library books (i.e. Games Workshop, Warhammer 40k) should visit southeast Asia to experience what a hive city would actually be like, which is being unfair to places like Manila and Bangkok because although they're bad they're not as bad in the ways a WH40k hive city is bad. Rather I think the writers would benefit from a more nuanced understanding of poverty, in these places there's a lot of incredibly poor people living in absolutely horrific conditions, but they do live, they do have homes and jobs and families. They might eat only rice for most of their meals and live in homes that look straight out of Megaton in Fallout III, but they don't see themselves as poor, they don't beg or steal, they're not unwashed or unkempt, despite everything they have their dignity. In that they're they same as anyone else from anywhere else.

Poverty refers to how much money you have.

The things you are referring to, such as that they live, they have homes, they have jobs, they have families, they have clean clothes, they have self-respect and respect in their communities, would probably all fall under Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

If you notice, money is not part of Maslow's hierarcy of needs. So you can fulfil all your human needs, even if you are extremely poor.

Equally, you can be rolling in money, and still be missing vital parts of Maslow's hierarchy, that means that your needs are not fulfilled, despite your wealth.

And then there's Australian bogans who have no dignity at all, who are compelled to vandalize and destroy everything, who all seem to have incredibly dysfunctional families, these are people who might attack you just because you're there and they don't really have anything better to do.

They would be examples of people who are missing out on many important needs in Maslow's hierarchy.

I find that fascinating because Australia is a fairly young country and during our colonial phase most people lived hard lives in harsh conditions, they weren't poor as such, there's a lot of opportunity in a developing nation, but they were very far from the rest of human civilization, they had to make do with what little they had. They weren't bogans.

I haven't really come to any conclusion about all this, but it's interesting data, I feel like once I have a few more pieces of the puzzle some great insight will come into focus.

I think, that the point is, that happiness and success are about fulfilling Maslow's hierarchy, not riches. So if educational systems, healthcare systems and welfare systems focussed more on providing Maslow's hierarchy of needs, then everyone would be happy and successful, even if 99% of them were poor.

Then economic inequality and poverty would no longer be issues, because everyone would have what they needed to have a happy & successful life.

 

[BurnedOut]

There are bogans everywhere in the world. They are called chhapris over here. Well, three bogans on a motorcycle called my female friends milk tankers as they passed by. Fucking reviling