Plain Aerl

[Aerl]

Hello

I am 21, I live with my parents and am a person most would
describe as a leech, also I've been sent to mental hospital now
atleast 5 times because of my "severe depression" but I'd describe
it more as "state of the mindset".

2nd year of academic vacation from university, currently 2nd year of
university as well, but I feel I will quit it because I am in no state to
pursui or acomplish anything what so ever.

I am here and now joining this forum because of sole reason, to receive
some imput on ideas that come to my mind. Reason for that is because
as I said earlier, I live with my parents and am a "failure" as such I do
not have anyone to evaluate them.

I have one question and a request for the moment:

I desire to make a thread by the name:
"Feelings and Emotions - a manifestation of complex subconscious process"

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

First, welcome. (<-I actually mean that.)

What is/was your major?

When you've been hospitalized, was it because of homicidal and/or suicidal urges and if so were they planned or sudden and unplanned?

And when's the last time you've felt the urge to dance like a ninny like no one was watching (regardless of whether or not anyone was watching)?

Basically... Do you identify with Kraepelin waves too?:

Spoiler

[bimgx=600]http://www.psycheducation.org/art/KraepelinWaves.jpg[/bimgx]

 

[Polaris]

*waves*

Hi Aerl

Looking forward to your thread.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

Hello.
Why do you think you are a failure for living with your parents?
Isn't that a cultural stereotype?

 

[Aerl]

Re:

@TheHabitatDoctor

Thank you, it "was" mechatronics, but I also was considering fields of
physics and chemistry. Reason for that is, I had a naive dream of building
something similar to "human" being and as much as I gather,
gene-engineering is on a relativly low level.
(also, I read about philosophy, psychology and logic)


Yes, sudden execution with careful planning to specific events. My
doc said that it's meaningless to take me in any more times and
suggested I be put in a residential care home instead.

Periodicaly, but I refrain myself from taking almost any sort of action.....in public.

If I were to put myself on a chart it would be point B but I'd much prefer
A, which I got to experience when I was on estrogen supplements.
Clear dreams, unstopable train of ideas, highly productive, time appeared
to have stoped to me at that time, sadly they had to take me off of them
because I was unable to sleep for 1 week.

@Polaris

Glad to make your acquaintance.

I'll see if I can put it together in a simplified manner today.

@Salmoneus

Hi. In my case:
a. unable to sustain myself financialy.
b. physicaly unfit and without any degree.
c. few friends
d. lasy and without any interest to take action which would influence outside world.
e. identity problems

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

Well, you have stated the reasons for why you are living with your parents.
But not the reasons why that would be something to be frowned upon.
The way i see it, you made a rational decision and you need some time to address the issues you are facing.
What's wrong with it?

(Fun fact: the model of moving out of your home and being "independent" is not even 70 years old.)

 

[Latte]

Welcome, Cardassian.

Many on this forum probably have some roughly semi-similar incarnation of your situation taking up a segment of the timeline of their life.

The way you word yourself makes me excited to see how you will interact and what you will say.

Sole reason or strongest reason consciously acknowledged, hopefully it won't remain as such :3

 

[Pyropyro]

Welcome Aerl.

I hope you'll enjoy your time here.

 

[Aerl]

Re:

@Salmoneus

This is how I am perceived, thus I believe it describes my current status in society perfectly.

What is wrong with me trying to work on my problems, probably nothing
besides the fact that it's taking a very long time and I'm not doing much
progress which I eather don't want to do or don't feel like solving because
it conflicts with my mindset and values.

@Latte

Thank you for your support. I do hope the same that I won't need
some day acknowledgement to take action on my own.

@Pyropyro

Thank you, I look forward to it.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

Re:

@Salmoneus

This is how I am perceived, thus I believe it describes my current status in society perfectly.

What is wrong with me trying to work on my problems, probably nothing
besides the fact that it's taking a very long time and I'm not doing much
progress which I eather don't want to do or don't feel like solving because
it conflicts with my mindset and values.

Perceived by whom?
How is that perception expressed?
How do you define "average usefulness"?
That curve shows that that you choose to memorize your worst self-image.
That's self-destructive and counter-productive. Don't do that.
There is no short-cut to self-improvement.
First step is self-knowledge.
Typology can be a part of this.

Spoiler

Eventually you arrive at a cross-road where you have to make a decision.
Either you choose to be limited by the conceptual construct of "your" type
or you work on developing traits of other types.

 

[Aerl]

Re:

@Salmoneus
Sociaty, it's expression, verbal abuse in one form. Average as in,
contributing atleast a little in making a living condition better. It's not
my memory of me but more of a everyone around me, because it impacts of
what they can expect of me in a short time period.

I don't consider myself being anything that can be rigidly defined. What implies, even if I am in a bad shape right now it doesn't mean that I'm bound by my form of who I am. An apple tree can also be a watch tower.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

Re:

@Salmoneus
Sociaty, it's expression, verbal abuse in one form.1 Average as in,
contributing atleast a little in making a living condition better.2 It's not
my memory of me but more of a everyone around me3, because it impacts of
what they can expect of me in a short time period.4

I don't consider myself being anything that can be rigidly defined. What implies, even if I am in a bad shape right now it doesn't mean that I'm bound by my form of who I am. An apple tree can also be a watch tower.5

1 Example?
2 What are you particularly good at?
3 How can you have access to the memory of all the people around you?
4 What can they expect?
5 Good.

PS:
Are you from asia?

 

[Aerl]

Re:

"you're a disgrace", "you're an embarrassment when I have to talk about you with others", "I don't allow you to accompany me to meetings to which you and I are invited".

I don't really know what I am good at besides providing insight in many different fields.

Exactly by knowing what they expect of me I know what they think of me. I had a job a few months back, but it ended in dissaster now half of my relatives pester me to find another, that's a way of acknowledgement. While my mom is against it because she believes it will be the same and I will bring more ruin than anything good from it. Every other person with whome I keep close contact and talk, entertain, do some favors is on relativly good terms with me but even they get "angry" at me because I'm not doing anything to better my position, they believe I could achieve a lot in life if only I had motivation.

My mother was born on a border of China if I recall right, afterwards her family(errr, it's my family also in a sense I guess) made a trip over Russia to Europe and durring war she traveled to Lithuania where I was born.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Re:

Spoiler

@TheHabitatDoctor

Thank you, it "was" mechatronics, but I also was considering fields of physics and chemistry. Reason for that is, I had a naive dream of building something similar to "human" being and as much as I gather, gene-engineering is on a relativly low level.
(also, I read about philosophy, psychology and logic)

Yes, sudden execution with careful planning to specific events. My doc said that it's meaningless to take me in any more times and suggested I be put in a residential care home instead.

Periodicaly, but I refrain myself from taking almost any sort of action.....in public.

If I were to put myself on a chart it would be point B but I'd much prefer A, which I got to experience when I was on estrogen supplements. Clear dreams, unstopable train of ideas, highly productive, time appeared to have stoped to me at that time, sadly they had to take me off of them because I was unable to sleep for 1 week.

So now that the dream has gone (?), what's left? Mine died not because it's not valid or it can't be achieved, but because I'm inherently flawed and I faltered. So I shall teach, because I'm damn sure that hardly anyone else has a stake in it or appreciates it. To be honest, it's really only getting at the same thing, just through different means, so it may not be fair to say that it died, just the prior (more socially honorable, lucrative, prestigious) means.

From the outside, I'm not sure I could deal with being in an RTF. If I were forced into it I don't doubt I'd learn the ropes, but I'd McMurphy my way into hell way too soon. I'm more sudden all around though, when stressed, so maybe that plays a role.

I experienced the same thing for about 8 months before I crashed. Fuck... nostalgia time...

 

[Aerl]

Re:

Spoiler

So now that the dream has gone (?), what's left? Mine died not because it's not valid or it can't be achieved, but because I'm inherently flawed and I faltered. So I shall teach, because I'm damn sure that hardly anyone else has a stake in it or appreciates it. To be honest, it's really only getting at the same thing, just through different means, so it may not be fair to say that it died, just the prior (more socially honorable, lucrative, prestigious) means.

From the outside, I'm not sure I could deal with being in an RTF. If I were forced into it I don't doubt I'd learn the ropes, but I'd McMurphy my way into hell way too soon. I'm more sudden all around though, when stressed, so maybe that plays a role.

I experienced the same thing for about 8 months before I crashed. Fuck... nostalgia time...

Now I just speculate what makes a human, "human". It's not my intent to
find a complete explenation to human behavior but to search for a way to
replicate some of its aspects in an AI.

 

[Variform]

Hello

I am 21, I live with my parents and am a person most would
describe as a leech, also I've been sent to mental hospital now
atleast 5 times because of my "severe depression" but I'd describe
it more as "state of the mindset".

2nd year of academic vacation from university, currently 2nd year of
university as well, but I feel I will quit it because I am in no state to
pursui or acomplish anything what so ever.

I am here and now joining this forum because of sole reason, to receive
some imput on ideas that come to my mind. Reason for that is because
as I said earlier, I live with my parents and am a "failure" as such I do
not have anyone to evaluate them.

How can you be a failure when you are the only actor that can play your life?

I hope you will get a handle on stuff. If you are like me, you don't want to be where I am at. Believe me.

Regrets are the most bitter, sour and evil feelings a man can have. You must get better and find a way to be. You must, fight for it! I beg of you!

I am sad you struggle with depression. Have you found the root causes?

 

[Variform]

Re:

I don't consider myself being anything that can be rigidly defined. What implies, even if I am in a bad shape right now it doesn't mean that I'm bound by my form of who I am. An apple tree can also be a watch tower.

Curious. Why did you use this expression? I can intuit some things about this, but I rather have you tell me what an apple tree means to you and why you would compare it to a watch tower.

Would you explain that please?

 

[Aerl]

@Variform
I can see where you're coming from on that, I only now noticed my error in forming
my satement along with responses.

Thank you for you sincere concern of my well being. I can only assume
that it's because I associated everything with feelings that I perceive as
"bad", so no matter what I do, I feel horrible, even when someone is
praising me I might still feel terrible, sick and avoid repeating my actions
even though I realise that I'm getting a positive result. (Something went
horribly wrong with how I react to outside world)

That analogy was just the 1st to pop into my mind. You can climb an apple
tree (or just a tree) and use it as an observation point/post, similarly you
can use a watch tower, climb and observe the area. A tree is made of
wood, and a watch tower can be build from wood.

I hope that is sufficient explenation...

Spoiler

I don't consider myself being anything that can be rigidly defined.
What implies, even if I am in a bad shape right now it doesn't mean that
I'm bound by my form of who I am. An apple tree can also be a watch
tower.

Form appears to be flawed, very vulnerable to misinterpretation too.

@Salmoneus, My apology, I was an ignorant as...... didn't notice my error.

 

[Variform]

@Variform
I can see where you're coming from on that, I only now noticed my error in forming
my satement along with responses.

Thank you for you sincere concern of my well being. I can only assume
that it's because I associated everything with feelings that I perceive as
"bad", so no matter what I do, I feel horrible, even when someone is
praising me I might still feel terrible, sick and avoid repeating my actions
even though I realise that I'm getting a positive result. (Something went
horribly wrong with how I react to outside world)

We are in the same boat, so I do empathize. There is something wrong with me too. What the source reason is, is my daily struggle. A chicken and the egg question, I ponder what comes first, possible ADHD causing me to keep doubting myself, questioning myself, undermining my own self-worth and even, like you, saying 'I finished this task but I could/should have done it better', or serious self-esteem issues undermining my ability to perform well and function normally.

I wish I had had some good help when I was a teen. But no one picked up on my issues, even though it was apparent to my parents there was something wrong.

When your family dismisses you and makes negative comments they are part of the problem. Please print this message and let them read it.

They ought to ask themselves whether they want to be part of the problem and feeding it or be part of the solution, by showing more support.

All they do now is create a self-enforcing negative feedback loop in your brain.

I do not see my mother anymore because I hate the bitch and for all I care she can die a horrible death. Actually, she is, she has vascular alzheimer so I hope she stays aware for a long time she is losing her mind and maybe she will realize she is shitting and pissing her own undies, before she loses track of that.

Your family need to be aware that this is their choice.

That analogy was just the 1st to pop into my mind. You can climb an apple
tree (or just a tree) and use it as an observation point/post, similarly you
can use a watch tower, climb and observe the area. A tree is made of
wood, and a watch tower can be build from wood.

I hope that is sufficient explenation...

But you said apple tree. Nothing just pops up in anyones mind. So I wonder what apples mean to you. Do you think of them as green or red? What do trees in general mean to you? Why would you pick a fruit tree? And the whole watchtower thing I don't get exactly.

I would like you to explain this to me. Because I am going psychologist on you. And when I use my intuition and analytical ability, you get answers.

We can do it privately if you like. Use me now I still feel sincere about the offer.

 

[Aerl]

@Variform

I see, I see. I had the same mindset about the issue at hand, I also had the
same view point on my mother. I came to realize that it's nobodies fault,
you can't blame anyone because nobody was actually consciously thinking about
what they are doing. Nobody was aware that something like this was
happening. I'm no longer "hateful" of my mother, I actually look at her with
great concern of what she is aware of and what she misses. I came to realize I
can actually stop hating everyone I did previos to when I understood that they
are just not aware of what impact their actions have, and my ignorance.

As for an apple tree and a watch tower. Well that makes sense now, should
have phrased it as: What does an apple tree and a watch tower symbolize to
you or what do you associate them with.

Almost always when I talk about ideas a tree pops into my mind, actually many
things symbolize a tree to me, that's why a tree is so important to me.

Spoiler

A tree. It's birth, groth, life, evolution, pattern, idea, health,circulatory system of human body, flexibilitie, hope, faith, it's many things. A Tree is very important to me.

Apple is associated in my mind with an apple of knowledge, golden apple, Newtons apple, Adam's apples. An Apple is 2nd most important thing to me.

It's green, my favorite color, health, nature, order.

An apple tree giving out fruits durring spring while snow is still
around. Awe, love, beauty, stream of positive feelings and emotions.
(Nature giving out fruits of life to it's children after they awaken from winter slumber, a beginning...)

Watch tower. An observation point, understanding, strategy, tactics, possibilities.

I'm intrigues by what you can make out of it.

 

[Variform]

I knew there was something there. At this difficult time in your life you are re-assessing what you have learned and experienced so far. A tree to you seems to be a symbol of life and the flow of life, because you also mention it as a circulatory system. The tree sap is flowing from the roots upward into the tips of the branches and in the leaves.

You recognize your life and how it flows. Living also means evolution, you recognize you go trough phases and you are in one now. You want to understand what there is to know about you and since a tree has height, you can climb it and it will be a watchtower out from which you can look upon yourself and see those possibilities.

A tree represents hope for you so climbing it means that hope will bring you a to a higher level of understanding yourself and the world. From up there you see patterns within yourself and you can thus explore new ideas.

It is a fruit tree, so the link is fruition, you hope to come to fruition, become an apple, that contains knowledge and it is green, so it is natural and biological so you think your gaining understanding of yourself is a natural progress. It is evolution of the Self.

A tree with apples is also a symbol for rebirth, a new cycle, the natural order of progression which is situation you find yourself in. The tree comes out of winter which is the depression you experience.

If you use this analogy in your writing I think it is a hopeful sign. Your subconscious shows up by this 'choice' of words. You are spiritually evolving and the tarot card I would associate with this is The Tower.

You reevaluate life, try to come to terms with what you know and don't know and you shed these old ideas that serve you no longer. You seek knowledge and will find it although the process isn't easy. It never is.

Keep searching but also, define stages by acceptance of a status quo, temporary as they are. A tree has branches but sometimes you need to rest on a single branch. The tree needs to grow too, after it has done so, you can climb higher.

I say this because when I look at myself and the stages I go through in life, it seems to me that I have never accepted anything that I became and kept looking rather than accepting the moment. It makes you question yourself. It is not so bad to reach a level and then stay on there a while. Time for integration.

Grow with the tree and let the apple ripen. Eat it before it rots, because that is what depression may be.

 

[Aerl]

I came to realyze something very important that I have been too ignorant to notice, to understand, that was right under my very nose all this time. Hurting me and I wasn't able to notice. One can never be more ignorant than that.

I see no reason for me to stay here, even though it was a short stay, I am sure it contributed to what I have learned. So I want to thank everyone, and I want to apologyze to those who I may have angered, hurt, with those I have disagreed, I want to apologyze to those of whome I robbed the opportunity to learn for themselves... I was not fair at all.

Even me writing this, is not fair, but when you realyze what I ment, I hope you can forgive me as well. Heh, always wanted to be the unknown hero and look cool in the eyes of history, turns out I love to cry more than anything...

Extra:

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUUU5LSbYHA

p.s. This is not a suicide note, but it sure would be perfect for that. I'm going to a better place. I'm sorry I have to leave you behind. Thank you everyone, you helped me a lot.