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Personality Disorders (PD)

Black Rose

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I think my mother is schizoid and I am avoidant.

I experienced abuse in infancy from my father.


Paranoid – believes in mind reading, being watched
Schizoid – lack of affect and unaffected by others
Schizotypal – atypical beliefs (flat earth)

Antisocial – only self-interested
Borderline – fear of rejection and abandonment
Histrionic – attention seeking, poor judgment
Narcissistic – inflated self-image, defensive

Avoidant – self-isolated, fear of people
Dependant – indecisive and lonely
Obsessive-Compulsive – fears lack of control
 

ZenRaiden

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Yeah, PD stuff.
Generally the problem I found is knowing the PD does not actually make you see the solution.
Its worth finding therapist.
 

Black Rose

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I was told I should sit with the pain and embrace it.
I feel it for a reason and that is because I was hurt.
If you are hurt it means you need help.
But if it was others that hurt you help is hard to find.
You expect it to come from everyone creating fear.

How do you overcome fear?

Trust.
 

ZenRaiden

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What helps is emotional journaling, where I write down emotional stuff.
I just write emotional stuff, about the day or past.
It helped me a lot.
I really don't feel comfortable talking about feelings to people.
 

Puffy

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Embracing and being present with the pain is the only thing that helps for me.

But I think it’s important to hold it as well as feel it, with the same compassion and kindness a good parent would hold a child. Then the emotion feels safe and validated and is able to start letting go.

Therapy is basically there to teach you how to parent yourself for those who don’t yet have that capacity.

I would take self diagnosis of personality disorder with a massive pinch of salt.
 

ZenRaiden

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Embracing and being present with the pain is the only thing that helps for me.

But I think it’s important to hold it as well as feel it, with the same compassion and kindness a good parent would hold a child. Then the emotion feels safe and validated and is able to start letting go.

Therapy is basically there to teach you how to parent yourself for those who don’t yet have that capacity.

I would take self diagnosis of personality disorder with a massive pinch of salt.
Self empathy was foreign concept for me.
I still work on this to treat my self kindly.
I happened to treat my self the way I was conditioned by my parents.
Which was recipe for disaster.

Some things I am working on.
Not self sabotaging my self.
Feeling my emotions.
Not being hyper critical of myself.
Not beating myself up mentally.
 

Puffy

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Embracing and being present with the pain is the only thing that helps for me.

But I think it’s important to hold it as well as feel it, with the same compassion and kindness a good parent would hold a child. Then the emotion feels safe and validated and is able to start letting go.

Therapy is basically there to teach you how to parent yourself for those who don’t yet have that capacity.

I would take self diagnosis of personality disorder with a massive pinch of salt.
Self empathy was foreign concept for me.
I still work on this to treat my self kindly.
I happened to treat my self the way I was conditioned by my parents.
Which was recipe for disaster.

Some things I am working on.
Not self sabotaging my self.
Feeling my emotions.
Not being hyper critical of myself.
Not beating myself up mentally.

That makes sense. I'm sorry to hear you're having to go through that.

Personally as mentioned that's all I think therapy is. If a child grows up in a healthy environment with good parents, they grow up to have a healthy, good internal monologue that reflects the way their parents spoke to and behaved with them.

For people who didn't grow up with that, therapy is reparenting for adults. The therapist speaks to and behaves with them the way a good parent would. And eventually the client internalises that and reconditions themselves.

I personally don't like the diagnosis of personality disorders. For one thing, the DSM was put together in a pretty unscientific way. On the other, it implies there's something wrong with someone that can't be fixed.

I believe what I've said above reflects neuroplasticity - that things are flexible and can be rewired. It just takes as much time as it takes.
 

ZenRaiden

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That makes sense. I'm sorry to hear you're having to go through that.
Yeah, its sad.

Personally as mentioned that's all I think therapy is. If a child grows up in a healthy environment with good parents, they grow up to have a healthy, good internal monologue that reflects the way their parents spoke to and behaved with them.
Had to work hard to acknowledge that. I still catch my self thinking it was good childhood. One therapist online said the best way to see this is "would you want your kids to have the same childhood". The answer is hell no. Though I do not have kids.

For people who didn't grow up with that, therapy is reparenting for adults. The therapist speaks to and behaves with them the way a good parent would. And eventually the client internalises that and reconditions themselves.
Yeah, its a lot more work than one would think. Thinking about psychological stuff and working on emotions is world apart. I kind of know the theory, but feelings they have life of their own.

I personally don't like the diagnosis of personality disorders. For one thing, the DSM was put together in a pretty unscientific way. On the other, it implies there's something wrong with someone that can't be fixed.
I only learned recently that DSM is just diagnostic guideline and has nothing to do with psychological stuff, just collection of symptoms to identify people, and DSM as far as I know has got a lot of criticism.

I believe what I've said above reflects neuroplasticity - that things are flexible and can be rewired. It just takes as much time as it takes.
Yeah I used to be stuck in a mindset that change is just learning.
But deeper foundation can be changed too, but through healing and reconditioning and even schema altering. Lots of new exciting therapies on horizon and new knowledge. I think the brain and human body is amazing and the limits of both are unknown to us yet.
 

Black Rose

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Personally as mentioned that's all I think therapy is. If a child grows up in a healthy environment with good parents, they grow up to have a healthy, good internal monologue that reflects the way their parents spoke to and behaved with them.

I do not have an internal monologue or an inner vision. I do not talk to myself in my head or daydream. All my thinking is subsymbolic.

For people who didn't grow up with that, therapy is reparenting for adults. The therapist speaks to and behaves with them the way a good parent would. And eventually the client internalises that and reconditions themselves.

Hmm.. that is not the way my therapist is but only because I get the free government kind. If I could afford my own I would get a different one but mine is from the government. And I am not sure I can get a good one because they would need to be older, I'm 36 years old so they would need to be more experienced than I am. And I think the difference between a therapist and a psychologist is an important distinction. Therapy is about empathy, psychologists are about the theory of mind. they can tell you why your mind works the way it does, it is more cognitive in that way.

I personally don't like the diagnosis of personality disorders. For one thing, the DSM was put together in a pretty unscientific way. On the other, it implies there's something wrong with someone that can't be fixed.

It is like autisms, it cannot be fixed but can be mitigated.

I believe what I've said above reflects neuroplasticity - that things are flexible and can be rewired. It just takes as much time as it takes.

Exactly like autisms plasticity.

If a child never learns the violin before age 7 they will never be a world violinist.

If a child never learns chess by age 12 the will never be a world chess champion.

Learning different languages as an adult is HARD. Only polyglots can do it in any effective way.

My point is that plasticity is a good fit and can be increased but the underlying structure as the foundation of a brain is practically set in an adult from childhood.

@dr froyd said that school needs to happen before age 30 for this reason. That it builds on what you need to learn later.

In 5th grade, I was 4'2" at age 12. they said I was too short. they gave me growth hormones and today I am 5'6" - the average male adult is 5'9". I had a bad thyroid and was probably malnourished. Some parents (not mine) give their babies Pepsi and Coke a cola at age 2 years old and don't breastfeed them. So that is not something easily cured.

These personality "disorders" happen for reasons.

It is not that they cannot be mitigated but they are embodied deep in the psyche.

I mean is homosexuality something that can be "fixed"/"mitigated"? No, because it is a deep personality characteristic. Personality is the deepest part of a person that is hard, really hard to change. So if a person has in themselves something that is part of them and this cannot be easily conditioned out of them maybe it is unscientific but it is true. Science is stupid when it comes to people, people understand people, not microscopes or telescopes. brain scanners may help but not for years to come. not when poor people like me can only afford free government services. Currently, some people are being treated for brain disorders but they are with high-end doctors, that not everyone even knows exists.

Dr. Amen from the Amen clinic says that mental illness does not exist: only brain malfunctioning exists. But then those services don't exist in psychiatry to help them.
 

Puffy

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I don't personally mind how others choose to perceive themselves or their personality, others are the experts on themselves. But for me I adopt the mindset that my challenges can be overcome or at least mitigated to a point that I can live with them and be happy. Ultimately that's what motivates me to work hard on myself.

I've never wanted any kind of psychiatric or neurological diagnosis as I believed being labelled with that would have an unconscious affect on me, of defining a limitation that can't be overcome and making me feel limited by the condition.

I do live at least in part in defiance of the aspects of my life that's been challenging. I've learned to name, recognise and feel my own emotions from a place of shutdown. Or to be comfortable sustaining eye contact with others. Or to be able to dance with others without self-consciousness. Or to be able to hold conversations with people.

It improves gradually with time and effort. Personally I think it's bollucks that neuroplasticity stops when you're 30. It never stops. But I do think it takes more effort as you get older, just as it takes more effort to keep the body fit.
 

Black Rose

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I don't personally mind how others choose to perceive themselves or their personality, others are the experts on themselves. But for me I adopt the mindset that my challenges can be overcome or at least mitigated to a point that I can live with them and be happy. Ultimately that's what motivates me to work hard on myself.

It is good to work hard but then is it possible that personality at the core is what is able to change? Can you, for instance, change yourself to be the opposite of who you are? This all goes back to the ideology of behaviorism. What conditioning can and cannot do.

I've never wanted any kind of psychiatric or neurological diagnosis as I believed being labelled with that would have an unconscious affect on me, of defining a limitation that can't be overcome and making me feel limited by the condition.

That is good. I have been labeled though and this label has led to learned helplessness. But the feeling of helplessness had been there for more than a decade before I was "diagnosed". I was not raised to take care of myself in the way society expects you to. I had an existential crisis because I was worthless inside.

I do live at least in part in defiance of the aspects of my life that's been challenging. I've learned to name, recognise and feel my own emotions from a place of shutdown. Or to be comfortable sustaining eye contact with others. Or to be able to dance with others without self-consciousness. Or to be able to hold conversations with people.

And that is an accomplishment. I was shut down too. But then why was I, not an alcoholic? Because I did not like the taste and I did not have the feelings or the urges to numb myself. I faced my pain without it. but at the cost of determination. I was not angry at people or life or God. But I was alone. People who do become alcoholics do not have hope. I suppose I did even when I had no faith in myself.

It improves gradually with time and effort. Personally I think it's bollucks that neuroplasticity stops when you're 30. It never stops. But I do think it takes more effort as you get older, just as it takes more effort to keep the body fit.

I was psychologically beaten down so much that my development was stunted. emotionally and cognitively. I did not know what to do so I wasted away. It took my entire willpower not to die. And that ages you.

I was not extraverted in the sense that I expressed myself like people would on tv. And I was not like people who just do things in their social way. I had no friends to take care of me, no parents who could do it either. I had to go to the group home when I graduated high school.

The body/brain of children just can do so many things adults cannot do.

But then what is a personality?

The core personality is about what you do to survive.

How does that work?

It is not that plasticity does not exist it is the frequency at which plastic can change.

This tells you how your body moves.

As the brain grows it builds layers, layers are the structures of development.

These structures are the foundations of the organism's motion.

So if you have these conditions early or later your body grows into them.

Growing out of one's conditioning requires more than just self-determination.

Before self-determination is possible one needs a strong front brain to stop oneself from engaging in certain behaviors that became burned in. They were burned in by repetition and pain/pleasure and by social reinforcements.

If different parts are growing at different speeds then it matters what we are exposed to when that is happening at each place and as a whole.

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I do not believe that I can catch up to people who have been doing maths way longer than I have. And why should I? What will it do for me? I have to become a janitor because I have no money and people who can do math have millions of monies I will never be able to get for decades because I will never be able to catch up. It takes money to get a job so if you have no money you cannot get a job. I could, if I tried, make friends so I could use math to help people but then it is going to be decades before anything happens.

So whether brains have personality or not is not the issue with me personally.

The issue is that I cannot do stuff.

It is too hard.

I was stunted.

And other people get to do what they want because they had a support system.

mine was not there.

progress is not impossible but it will never be the full potential.

I only have what I have and that is it.

when people hurt my feelings I guess that it is impossible to defend myself.

but other people get away with so much.

I think personalities do exist.

and that means they can become disfigured, warped, and misshapen.

personality is just the way/shape in which the psychology of a person moves.
 
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