Original music

[lagduck]

I write electronic music in different styles, very interested in your opinions/criticism. https://soundcloud.com/gammavibes My humble opinion is that my music is original, interesting and sometimes even cool, but no one who I know seems to understand/appreciate it. I want to know, if music isn't cool enough to be appreciated or people just don't understand it. I write music for 15 years and never got any interest to it from others. Today's popular music tend to be very loud, drivey and simple, and my music is quiet, mellow and complicated. I believe that you, INTPs can understand and rate it way better then mass listener. Anyway, I'm looking forward to your comments, especially constructive critics.

 

[Brontosaurie]

groovy and tight, good sound design (especially in the beginning of "objective qualia (ep mix)") and mixing, good little blips add depth

the bass seems to stumble on purpose, it takes you along, well done - a lot more organic and subtle than most of dubstep, d'n'b and similar music, even though your timbres are less layered and complex (which in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing either)

hard to explain what i like overall but i think i can appreciate what you're striving to express, which is something slightly beyond my verbal grasp at the moment, and i know entire subcultures of people who should care, but i can't say if they would

i'll listen to some more tracks and return with final verdict

oh one more thing, are the singing bits samples or your own recordings or a hired singer? the singing is the weakest component of your music imo, but it's not bad per se.

OK my final verdict: there's some serious musical merit to everything you've got but for me, the two EP tracks are stand-outs. they've got more happening, more dynamics, more immersive structure, and better production than the other tracks. continue in that direction and you'll be set, artistically. (you have no reason to trust me but i'm quite confident in this so i'm putting it out here anyway). making money on music, however, is not something i would hope for - but if you don't get at least some proper recognition sooner or later, the world sure is a bit fucked up. o wait....

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

I find your music good to listen while reading cyberpunk manga.
I would either expose vocals and make them more synthetic or give them more meaning.
I cannot say i understand what you want me to, however it is interesting.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

Hello lagduck.

I have taken the time to listen to all your stuff
and my favourite is stealthslayer - discours (sur les ombres).
Maybe that is because i'm not that into electronic music myself.
(May I ask at this point: is your music soft- or hardware based?)
(Are your drum tracks hand-made midi tracks or chopped loops?)
But i believe it's something deeper in the very structure of the songs.
While this stealthslayer song has the right balance between repetition and variation,
i have trouble finding that ratio in your other songs.
Please take this as constructive criticism.

I have taken the liberty to copy and paste some related information on the topic from various resources:


http://www.studio360.org/audio/m3u/164939/
http://www.studio360.org/audio/m3u/164940/
http://www.studio360.org/audio/m3u/164941/

I have always been fascinated by the artistic use of repetition in music and it shows in my productions. I layer and splice many loops and textures during the course of any of my tracks, and I like to think I make creative use of repeated phrases. Like you mentioned, electronic/dance music is built upon this and uses it to derive its character. It is a new take on the ancient concept of using repetition to hypnotize the mind. Tribal music used for ritual and worship was built on repetitive use of rhythm, so it's no wonder that it is appealing to modern musicians for the same reasons. We are just using technology to give it a new direction.
All of this is obvious, but I have found out a few things about repetition that I use to my advantage and have used to greatly improve my art. We have all heard countless electronic tracks that are overly repetitive, and result in emotionless, formulaic, dead music. The way around this is to layer loops on different eq bands, do alot of crossfading, fx modulation, and create lots of cresendos, builds, and fills. Being subtle is the key. If you can learn to maintain constant subtle change throughout your repetitions, you have gained an important advantage. There is a very fine line between having your repetitions sound boring, or attaining the bliss of a hypnotic groove, just like our ancestors did once. I feel that the most powerful moments in music are when you use subtle changes to direct your mind subconciously to a point of complete focus and inspiration.
This takes the music beyond the concept of a mere song, and turns it into a much more powerful force, a carefully created strand of sound that can be used to manipulate the human psyche to reach a state of timeless bliss. This is a very profound experience. There are many aspects of music that are unique in their own forms, but this is beyond words. Those who know what I'm sayin', you know. Anyway, I just think that it is a complete art to use repetition to its fullest potential, and it is an exciting time in music when we can really explore these techniques and refine them. This is the first time in history really that a global musical movement has been based on concepts such as this and in a way we are picking up where our predecessors left off.
The main difference between using technology to create hypnosis- inducing music and beating on a crude drum with your fellow tribesman (besides creating any sound imaginable), is that we are dealing with static samples and phrases. They are not organic like a real acoustic instrument and therefore must be manipulated continuously to maintain interest in the repetition.
There are too many artists who string a bunch of unchanging loops together simply because its been done before. There are artists who can get away with it more than others, but for the most part there needs to be more experimentation. There are those artists however that somehow create simple compositions of fairly unchanging loops, and keep it interesting. They really fascinate me, because only the most perfeclty crafted elements combined in a certain way can pull this off. I am speaking right now of alot of dancefloor drum n bass. The beats are suprisingly unchanging, but crafted in a way that retains your interest. At least mine anyway. Everyone has their own tastes. Peace!-

Nice topic.

I`ve always found that when a piece of music repeats itself over and over again ...... in the right way........... you get drawn into it and certain senses, like hearing and perception of time can be affected. But it is important that it is done in the right way.

It isn`t just about looping the same thing over and over again, there has to be some variance and at least one part that changes continously to keep the mind busy focusing.

A simple example of this could be in a Drum'n'Bass track where you have the repetative rhythmn and bass with 2, 4 or 8 bar variations, some more prominant than others, and a lead synth line that gives the track its "Tune". The listener first focuses on the lead line and subconsiously is drawn in by the repetative parts, which eventually the brain switches focus to, giving that trance-like state.

It is a hard thing to do well, but it can make a good track great.

It's always about the subtle things. Repetition if done properly doesn't have to be boring. As KJ was saying, it's all about subtle variance. For instance, take a bassline that is just pedalling E at eight notes that repeats for 16 measures. You can make that less boring simply by modulating the filter frequency at 4 measure intervals. You're still playing the same note and it's ultra repetitive, but the sound is dynamic which makes it more interesting than if you weren't modulating the filter.

The trick is to repeat .... but be discrete. Or at least that's what I always say. I produce dance music and I believe that repetition is very important... but more importantly is do you feel like the song is going anywhere??? Is it evolving???? My mistake too often was when I used Acid for all my production... (I still use the program.. but not to compose). My tendency was to find the cool loops that would fit together well, and then loop the crap out of them while muting and soloing some, adding effects, cutting up a little bit.. etc. Which was nice and all... I came out with some decent stuff, but I always felt like it was hanging there. What I am trying to do now is to start at the beginning of the track.. with the DJ's intro... and then work on the evolving structure.... You can hear my latest attempt at this with the bit that I have worked on for the past 2-3 nights...

http://www.markschonfeld.com/blue%20day.mp3

I start with a theme... and by the time we are ending the intro... the theme is fully obvious... and it also is just about to start to get old.... so now the next step is to complete the intro... and then have it jump into a variation bit that will keep the suspense and the general theme... but will also work to push the track foward. Hopefully over the next few weeks I can accomplish this. To be honest this is one of my first tracks done fully on my own without sampled loops.... so we'll see what happens....

The theory of tapping our feet or nodding our heads is basically referring to the basics of music... it is mathematical... it is the organization of it and the predictability that our minds like... a well organized song keeps your head nodding... something that is not organized (not in time... not ending at proper bar lengths.. etc.) will throw our mind off for a second and we interpret it as a disturbance. Now there are obviously exceptions to the rule where it is beneficial to not end in time or whatever.. but in general it helps to follow the rule....

Keep in mind that I do not believe necessarily in RULES and am as a result not a classically trained musician. My real rule is simple.... "LISTEN".... if you listen to your track as it plays.. instead of thinking "well I guess I need to add another bar" listen to how it sounds.. listen to your mind... it especially helps to not get too involved in the production side first. If you do so, you may keep a part just because it took you so long to finish that you dare not delete it. KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. If you do this and can step back from what it is you are writing, you may say, "hmmm... I think I should cut that for a litlle bit...." or "it would groove better if it was pushed ahead just a little"... your mind will tell you these things... no rules necessary. Just listen to it.... in dance music the biggest and most important element is to make sure it keeps your head nodding.

For those of you that are interested in repetitive music you might want to check out a composer called steve reich. my art teacher introduced me to his music at art school. he is a big influence on my music & imo one of the pioneers of electronic music today.

For me it's all about balance- a balance between order and chaos or repetative sound vs. incidental sound.
Perhaps this is one reason why vocal songs are still such a powerful and popular form after thousands of years.
In modern songs the music can be highly repetative while the vocal adds more chaos to the mix- especially during verses where a certain word or even melodic phrase may only appear once throughout the entire composition.
Take the vocal out of a track and an imbalace is usually created which requires the addition of more chaotic elements (timbral or 'musical' for want of a better word.
I spend a lot of time listening to and making music with a lot of repetion (on the surface) but the pieces which seem to have more longevity and broader appeal contain more chaos on deeper levels. These are the ones which sound more 'organic' to me. Hopefully the track will still be a good listen after 50 plays!
- just my thoughts on the matter

What is your opinion?
Am I on to something, or do you think that's not really the problem?

 

[Jagnat]

I've actually just been looking for music of a similar style as this! It really reminds me of the new EP, Sanctuary, by Koan Sound and Asa, although less hyper and even more relaxing.

Your production quality is amazing; you can definitely tell how experienced someone is just by how well their tracks are mixed.

I personally hugely enjoy repetition, even if with only mild variation, why I think I like deep house and some trance so much, but I certainly agree with Salmoneus on some level, and I also think that when music is very chill and low-key, repetition seems to stand out more, so more effort must be made to keep it progressive, not static.

 

[lagduck]

Thank you all guys for such deep and constructive attention. You give me exactly right insight and inspiration I need for further development and evolution of my music. I'm reworking some tracks now and trying some new projects, l'll share results when they'd be ready, so you can be in touch with my progress and
guide it further.
Now on questions almost all the sounds I use, including singing bits, are reworked free samples I downloaded from internet. I usually take random sounds and try them in the mix until I find some interesting interaction, some subtle harmony, and then I refine this interaction by editing added sound and mix, so they better fit, better work together. I also use sounds synthesized on software synths, when I need more flexible, more live, organic sound. I also try random presets on random synths with random notes and rhytmic patterns until I find something interesting, some translucent, distant idea, spirit, some evoked mood - and then refine it by editing preset, making sound more complex naturally, according to what ensues from that "interesting" interaction. It's entirely intuitive search of harmony in chaos, and then entirely rational refinement, jeweler's cut of what's been found. I don't use any recording or hardware synthesis, my music is absolutely abstract, digital, software-based. I think of it as compositions, to be opposed to recordings, and see myself as programmer rather then musician.
"discours" track is entirely synthetic too, it's programmed in Guitar Pro with custom edited RSE, its drum track is hand-programmed midi track on hand-made samplepack. I don't use foreign melodic or rhytmic sequences, instead i get extrinsic sound samples and use it in intrinsic way (so to say I prefer buy ingridients and improvise with recipe rather then produce own ingridients and use it in good old classic formula).
Also thanks very much for notes on vocals and repetition. I thought that vocals and bass was strongest, coolest parts of my production, but after your comments I saw that it's indeed weakest part. I considered it from this new perspective and found many, many harmonic and rhytmic errors in vocal's score, and sound-design of it turned out primitive and underworked. I was so convinced that it's "cool" and "trendy" that I lost contact with sound, percieved it abstractly, delusively and didn't recognized its underworkedness. Working on it from this new perspective gave tracks huge musicality boost straight away, so thanks once again for such constructive insight.
About repetition - it's VERY interesting, I have to sleep over it for some time. Maybe it's what I missed all this years and may be my way to harmony i lost in time (I noticed that my music degrades in some ways, hard to describe, but it's very objective feeling. old tracks, such as "dicsours"(its 2007), feels way more musical in some subtle way, newer tracks lacks this higher musicality; production and sound-design, style gets way better with time but that subtle spirit, musicality is lost, sound is beautiful but empty, and it only gets worse, I cant grasp it and lose it every time). This is serious philosophic question, and I feel it can change my vision in wide, universal way. Has to think about it very thoroughly.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

Glad you could find something useful and consider reflecting upon it.
This can indeed be a lengthy process.

old tracks, such as "dicsours"(its 2007), feels way more musical in some subtle way, newer tracks lacks this higher musicality; production and sound-design, style gets way better with time but that subtle spirit, musicality is lost, sound is beautiful but empty, and it only gets worse, I cant grasp it and lose it every time

This happens to the best, don't worry.
As long as you can perceive it, there's still the possibility to not get stuck in it.
I do not know about the mental state in which you can achieve the best result.
Another factor is spontaneity.
Do you have any MIDI control Interfaces?

I think of it as compositions, to be opposed to recordings, and see myself as programmer rather then musician.

One trap though, is to not to be able to "catch the moment".
I don't know who it was, but some electronic musician i highly admire said something along the lines of

"Never work too long on one project.
Work 2 or 3 hours straight one one project, then take an hour of rest/other activities.
After that continue with another piece. etc.
If you still can feel something when you come back to the project the other day, then continue to work on it as previously described.
If not, put it away and have a look at it again in a month or even a year or so and start something new instead.
The problem with editing for hours is that you can tweak and fiddle subtle changes but lose focus on the bigger picture."

Now, i don't know your "workflow", but maybe there is some value in that statement, which could be experimented with.


I wanted to include this in my first response, but unfortunately forgotten about it.
Excellent information:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1Lg-n3IgLc

 

[shoeless]

okay, i've only played the most recent (fraktal ataque), but it's really groovy. i dig it a lot. something i would have loved to just lie down and get baked listening to back when i smoked.

i'll listen to more and write a more constructive/comprehensive review when i have more time.

 

[lagduck]

Little update from me. Uploaded some new tracks to soundcloud since last post, feel free to listen. I think I made certain progress in my sound (thanks to your feedack) so It would be great if someone point me out again weakest sides of my productions (so I can work on them further). Howewer, any impressions and opinions from you guys would be great (I NEED outside opinion to better understand my music, miss it so much).

Here's my latest sound:
Gammavibes - (in)Decision VIP
[MP3]https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/149362098/download?client_id=b45b1aa10f1ac2941910a7f0d10f8e28&oauth_token=1-16343-58999879-afb7e6adf7bed60[/MP3]

Gammavibes - Idle Soul
[MP3]https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/149368320/download?client_id=b45b1aa10f1ac2941910a7f0d10f8e28&oauth_token=1-16343-58999879-afb7e6adf7bed60[/MP3]

 

[RunForWord]

i really like the bass especially