Opinions on Feeling (F) of MBTI

[SkyWalker]

Feeling (F) = empathy = thinking about OTHERS.

- Introverts (I) & Extraverts (E) think about OTHERS, both in their own special way.
- The Ambivert is a non-introvert & non-extravert, basically indifferent to OTHERS.

I suggest the Ambivert is the pure Thinker (T) of MBTI

I suggest T makes E/I weaker
I suggest F makes E/I stronger
examples: ExFx is more extravert than ExTx, IxFx is more introvert than IxTx

Am I right? What do you guys think?

 

[s0nystyle]

Isnt this the same as saying F types are more empathetic because they have Fi or Fe in as their 2ndary or primary function?

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Feeling (F) = empathy = thinking about OTHERS.

- Introverts (I) & Extraverts (E) think about OTHERS, both in their own special way.
- The Ambivert is a non-introvert & non-extravert, basically indifferent to OTHERS.

I suggest the Ambivert is the pure Thinker (T) of MBTI

I suggest T makes E/I weaker
I suggest F makes E/I stronger
examples: ExFx is more extravert than ExTx, IxFx is more introvert than IxTx

Am I right? What do you guys think?

No, you got it wrong, there is no such thing as being 'more extraverted'. What you mean is 'more sociable'. And in that case, I agree, but because Fe seeks out others. I don't agree with the statement about introverts, however, actually I think it's the opposite.

 

[wadlez]

I agree with EyeSeeCold. Your confused as you don't underdstand the MBTI definition of Introverted and Extroverted. There not how social you are, sociability is just something they have an affect on.
The two orientations are the source of energy, whether you get this from objects within (introverts) or objects in reality (extroverts).
Its never stand alone either, your MBTI type tells you your primary function and whether this is a E or I, Think of E and I as modifiers to functions. So you have Thinking as you know, but there is Extroverted Thinking which is different to Introverted thinking.

We all also have an Extroverted function, but for I types its for our secondary function rather than primary. The function that your Extroversion falls on will shape your social character to the world and how you treat objects in reality. Since INTP's Extroverted function is iNtuition, we are open to different people and different social prospects.
You have types that are dorks, like INTJ's this can be because there extroverted function falls on Thinking, so there social character is there logical side (which since its secondary isn't even that good, so they come across stupid to primary T types like us )

 

[EyeSeeCold]

You have types that are dorks, like INTJ's this can be because there extroverted function falls on Thinking, so there social character is there logical side (which since its secondary isn't even that good, so they come across stupid to primary T types like us )

Lol, harsh.

 

[dark]

ROFL, well according to the socionics, it is INTp that hava the Ni Te, so would you like to make that your final answer?

But really I don't know enough to say if I can believe the socionics interpretation just yet. It is interesting yes. But back to the threads basis of MBTI then yes it would be the INTJ with that function.

But a well developed INTJ would actaully have a well developed Te so that is a bad generalization.

And yes the E and I EyeSeeCold is talking about is correct, my functions are NeTi, but I tend to not like people in general so I don't become as social as other extroverts, but when I am social I probably seem more extroverted than almost anyone, since I really don't care, thanks to the Pness. I think or maybe that comes from the N... Or maybe just some dancing fairies.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

ROFL, well according to the socionics, it is INTp that hava the Ni Te, so would you like to make that your final answer?

But really I don't know enough to say if I can believe the socionics interpretation just yet. It is interesting yes. But back to the threads basis of MBTI then yes it would be the INTJ with that function.

Didn't want to bring any confusion in here.

but when I am social I probably seem more extroverted than almost anyone, since I really don't care, thanks to the Pness.

Yes. Having a huge Pness does help to be more outgoing.
But, sadly, my Pness is TiNe.

 

[dark]

Haha that is the most clever comment I have read in a while.

 

[Anthile]

I agree with EyeSeeCold. Your confused as you don't underdstand the MBTI definition of Introverted and Extroverted. There not how social you are, sociability is just something they have an affect on.
The two orientations are the source of energy, whether you get this from objects within (introverts) or objects in reality (extroverts).
Its never stand alone either, your MBTI type tells you your primary function and whether this is a E or I, Think of E and I as modifiers to functions. So you have Thinking as you know, but there is Extroverted Thinking which is different to Introverted thinking.

We all also have an Extroverted function, but for I types its for our secondary function rather than primary. The function that your Extroversion falls on will shape your social character to the world and how you treat objects in reality. Since INTP's Extroverted function is iNtuition, we are open to different people and different social prospects.
You have types that are dorks, like INTJ's this can be because there extroverted function falls on Thinking, so there social character is there logical side (which since its secondary isn't even that good, so they come across stupid to primary T types like us )

Huh. You're joking, right?

 

[wadlez]

ROFL, well according to the socionics, it is INTp that hava the Ni Te, so would you like to make that your final answer?

This isn't Socionics dark, your in my world now.

But a well developed INTJ would actaully have a well developed Te so that is a bad generalization.

That would make sense except it negates there primary function iN, which is there true master. There eT is like a factory which is directed by iN and nothing can come from it which is counter to this. So they will talk like they have their purely logical, but keep in mind that this logic is vastly shaped by the iN which is there true nature. Many times I have argued against the faulty logic of an INTJ, and end up digging up the iN source.
An example of this is the INTJ's typical problem with MBTI and there type.

There are so many INTJ's on this forum its not funny, I know this because they say "I used to be an INTJ, but then developed into a INTP" or they'll straight out admit they test as INTJ.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Many times I have argued against the faulty logic of an INTJ, and end up digging up the iN source.

The argument between an intuitive thinker and a logical thinker is a funny sight to see. It just goes in circles. logic->intuition->logic->intuition ad infinitum

 

[viche]

I have correlated F function to be the one that rigs the mind of individual to favor cooperation with other individuals. T function is one that rigs the brain to favor competition with other individuals. So in the mind of F-type other people are given a lot of value while in mind of T-type the value is diminished. Diminishing value of other individuals obviously facilitates one competing with them as then one simply doesn't value them (rather it leads to well-known phenomenon of objectification). It also leads to T-types having diminished interest in people and relationships in general.

The common definition of extraversion is going out partying and socializing with other people. If you use this definition then yes, it will seem like F function strengthens extraversion because F-type extraverts will be trying to spend time with other people because this is what is given value in their mind (especially Fe-extraverts). However I find this definition to not be accurate and instead use the definition where extraversion is just any interaction with environment and whether or not this environment includes people in it is irrelevant. Using this definition F and T have no effect on E/I component.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Fe and Se compete. The former for attention, the latter for territory. I think it might be the same for the other functions to some extent.

 

[SkyWalker]

I have correlated F function to be the one that rigs the mind of individual to favor cooperation with other individuals. T function is one that rigs the brain to favor competition with other individuals. So in the mind of F-type other people are given a lot of value while in mind of T-type the value is diminished. Diminishing value of other individuals obviously facilitates one competing with them as then one simply doesn't value them (rather it leads to well-known phenomenon of objectification). It also leads to T-types having diminished interest in people and relationships in general.

The common definition of extraversion is going out partying and socializing with other people. If you use this definition then yes, it will seem like F function strengthens extraversion because F-type extraverts will be trying to spend time with other people because this is what is given value in their mind (especially Fe-extraverts). However I find this definition to not be accurate and instead use the definition where extraversion is just any interaction with environment and whether or not this environment includes people in it is irrelevant. Using this definition F and T have no effect on E/I component.

I like to continue this. Empathy is not only positive (love/cooperation). empathy can also be negative (hate/competition).
Lack of empathy as in a psychopath means lack of positive empathy (but there is still negative empathy).
lack of empathy as in an autistic asperger means lack of both positive&negative empathy.

lack of both positive&negative empathy does not cause competition, it causes blindness for both cooperation & competition.

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There are people who hate everybody, they think a lot about others, they hate them so much, they will make compromises to their own selfish rational interest, just take those damn "motherfuckers" down
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So Viche:
What about people who take themselves down to take the other down? ( e.g. borderline women), how would you type them? What is their primary function?

They are certainly not thinkers!

 

[viche]

I like to continue this. Empathy is not only positive (love/cooperation). empathy can also be negative (hate/competition).
Lack of empathy as in a psychopath means lack of positive empathy (but there is still negative empathy).
lack of empathy as in an autistic asperger means lack of both positive&negative empathy.

lack of both positive&negative empathy does not cause competition, it causes blindness for both cooperation & competition.

Detach yourself from word empathy and simply substitute word value. Word empathy has several different meanings, so any time I mention empathy anywhere I've noticed people have propensity to disagree based on what they understand it means. There isn't an agreement on what empathy exactly is so you can get stuck in this discussion forever. So lets use word "value". Say there is a value scale from 1 to 10 where 1 corresponds to giving a human being almost no value and 10 would correspond to giving human being a lot of value. In this case pure T corresponds to 1 and pure F corresponds to 10. Most people however use a combination of both functions. Thinkers use more T and Feelers use more F.

Empathy if you take it to mean just simple understanding of emotions does not require having F function really. You can use logic, sensing, intuition to coldly and rationally understand emotions of others and even predict them from what they say or their body language and facial expressions.

In case of Asperger's I read these people are not able to 'read' mental state of others and body language. I don't think this has to do with MBTI, but some sort of rather serious 'glitch' that happened in their mind (it has a genetic linker for it too). I wouldn't use MBTI to describe such kind of disorders.

So Viche:
What about people who take themselves down to take the other down? ( e.g. borderline women), how would you type them? What is their primary function?
They are certainly not thinkers!

In case of personality disorders I would not use MBTI to describe those. Right tools for the right job. And MBTI is not the tool that has been designed to explain significant mental disbalance. It is a tool that has been designed to let average people to find a good career fit. There is a danger of taking it too far to try to explain every single little thing in its light. Besides MBTI there is a ton of other psychological literature and other systems/models for human behavior some of which specifically address personality disorders.

However I do know of an article that tries to correlate personality disorders to functions, specifically exaggerated use of either the introverted set or the extraverted set. Borderline disorder is prescribed to having very strong Te and Ne and very weak Fi and Si (basically to highly extraverted ENFPs and ESTJs would exhibit borderline-like behavior). For INTPs heavy usage of Ti and Si is said to lead to Schizotypal personality disorder (same as for ISFJs). Reference: http://personalitycafe.com/articles/25205-dominant-tertiary-loops-common-personality-disorders.html

You are also confusing actual ability to think with what is called "thinker" in MBTI. Function T doesn't give you the actual ability to think, it only places a certain slant on your thinking process. Nomenclature is sadly confusing and it leads people to believe that feelers go around without having thoughts in their head.

There are people who hate everybody, they think a lot about others, they hate them so much, they will make compromises to their own selfish rational interest, just take those damn "motherfuckers" down
They are certainly not thinkers!

Each function brings certain strengths to the way person is thinking, but because there exist these strengths there also exist weaknesses. Ever heard of the Tom Waits lyrics that go "If I exorcise my devils, well my angels may leave too". There is a lot of truth to that quote.