I wasn't really following the conversation but if that's you genuinely changing your mind Serac, that's rare for anyone here whether I agree with them or not. Mad props just for still having the flexibility.
I wrote this entire thread off as needless baiting. If a mind was changed it's one of the most demonstrably productive threads we've had in a while.
I argue for whatever I think is right based on the evidence presented to me and the values I hold, Saying I am "too far gone" and "assimilated" obviously implies that I cannot think for myself or that I am blindly adhering to some party line (actually what's hapening is I'm just disagreeing with you). Every war has refugees and people who stay and fight and people who stay and get killed. world war II cause loads of displacement. This is no different. I can't particularly say I blame the people who wanted to leave. Furthermore, the situation in these wars is so complex and there are so many factions in play all vying for power I'm not sure if it would be clear who I would want to join in most cases or who I could ifght with towards some kind of common good. Starting an army is no easy task. In any case, there are people who stayed and fought and the mandela types tend to be people who would want to stay anyway, I mean I'm sure Mandela could have decided to try and make his way to europe at that time as well, it's not like immigration was this totes unheard of thing before all this. We're getting a big influx because there are a lot of unstable places right now.
best be wary trusting any news articles about what terrorist cells are doing, pretty sure it should be public knowledge that over half a billion dollars has been spent on making al-quada propaganda by now out of the pentagon's budget.
I'm linking to news sites about public bombings and attacks, not Al-Quaida propaganda (fake or real) encouraging people to live the high life as a terrorist or telliing them not to or whatever. Just public bombings.
then argue for it lol, i still struggle to see much value to having people leaving their countries when they could instead be the solution to those countries.
you aren't gonna get it cause you aren't from those countries lol.
matter of fact i don't think anyone should be moving elsewhere around the world unless it's an issue of love or purpose (you're the only one with this unique expertise that we require to fix this unique problem).
granted france is always building a world cup team innit, any imports welcome.
let's take mandela for instance, he was forced to stay because he was imprisoned when he could have left (probably would have gone to russia as they took quite a shining to our communist fighters). following that international sanctions made it harder to leave once he was released.
a lot of people placed themselves in exile to have an excuse to be taken in by another nation, irrespective of what the news would have you think these people aren't held in high regard.
syria has a lower crude death rate than france.
perhaps the kicker for france deaths are diseased migrants who can't get medical care following the journey to the ferries where rape is currency for the crossing.
if you want to say those stats are old people then do observe that every nation has old people relative to that nation.
my belief is these places aren't all that bad, the news just paints a picture that operation mockingbird would prefer you keep in mind, because it serves agenda's, which way the agenda is truly falling is privileged knowledge, but i can assure you there are people living in syria who don't see any "war" going on, my fiances father is there most of the time and he refuses bodyguards despite them being logical for his position.
he also takes pictures sipping tea or coffee while reading the syrian newspapers.
i mean it's cute, to point to this article about a bombing, or that video of a bombing, or what have you, but you're just looking at buildings getting bombed, for it to matter people would have to be getting bombed but it's not the people being targeted cause they're the work force for whatever is setup there later, look at iraq. https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/iraq/indicator/SP.DYN.CDRT.IN
death rate during the "iraq war" years are a joke
it even dips during the iran-iraq wars
and a handful will likely be shipped across the ponds to perpetuate both ends of a narrative.
by contrast SA has a ridiculous death rate compared to these warring nations, you should be taking refugees from here it's not like the taxi gangs, rural workers and street gangs don't manufact their own wars afterall.
A note on the crude death rate: places like middle east will typically have much lower crude death rates than developed western countries due to demographical aspects of the population. E.g. if a population is comprised of more young people, there will be a lower crude death rate. So in that regard it might not make sense to compare the overall crude death rates that way.