On Compassion / Rant / Purpose

[Tenacity]

I was thinking about my purpose in life, and I hope that I can create compassion for those without before I die.

I hear all the dogma in my head, and it is unfortunately the people closest to me who have doubted and are likely to doubt my abilities on this front.

I constantly see the cynicism of society in regards to building for the future, as if every creation is so fated for inevitable destruction, when, instead, should we not hope for light where there is darkness?

And then there are things like double standards and natural stigmatism in places like Venture Capital, where some men are confined to invest only in what they know, and women VCs, while I'm glad they are finally even present and taking on leadership roles, many as well are biased, and, while not to the same extent, still overvalue either on one end, the concept of mainstream/proven methods of altruism, or past metrics and current rate of change in growth, and their reservation over future potential follows the same thought process as "I haven't see anyone look like her do something this ambitious before, it's not going to work". I.e. Anyone too "in the middle" or too eccentric doesn't make the cut due to groupthink.

I aspire to become an angel investor because I see these stigmas, and I value the merit of intellect over the superficiality of being sold by 15 minute presentations. I believe the pitch deck presentation format should be mostly blind - That if you over-value someone's conviction in person over how they really think and act over the long term, how do you really know that a venture is to succeed and have longevity? I believe the system is flawed and that certain VC firms that have grown in popularity have become overly hungry for seeing numbers grow over actual world impact. I'd like to revolutionize venture capital for the next generation, with an emphasis on compassionate investing. This would mean more investment in companies that contribute to the public good, especially where the government is unfortunately too slow or falls short, and more value creation towards fixing the wreckage of problems we currently have like what billions of people are actually going to do after the wave of automation takes place - These people should not be condemned to a lack of a fulfilling life, but should be able to do what they are gifted in, and if they don't know what that is, be able to take the time to discover that, and learn the trades necessary to do what is truly fulfilling.

We don't need to wipe people out. People can change, improve, and transform into much stronger and wiser people than who they used to be or than who they grew up as simply due to the confines of the contexts of their nurturing.

I want to see people be more compassionate about who we are beyond the surface. I think that is why I'm here. I'm glad I'm able to connect with some of you. I'm thankful for that.

I doubt myself more than I want to, as well, because I'm not greed-centric, yet I am saddened that it seems that much of the world is, thus disabling the power of compassion.

 

[Tenacity]

That was a bit emotional since I don't talk to anyone about these things. Hope you understand. It will likely continue for a bit, heads up. Anyways, here is perhaps a slightly better contribution to the knowledge base here that is more suited for discussion:

There are multiple forms of compassion. I personally would like to improve on Sentient Compassion (will explain in a bit) and take action upon Considered Heroic Compassion.

Here is a good article from Berkeley on the different types of compassion, some of which are more highly regarded than others by those who are highly compassionate people, and the rest can be applicable to, should you desire, improving the compassionate aspect within yourself and to be externalized upon others. It is a taxonomy.
https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/paul_ekmans_taxonomy_of_compassion

Basic Off-the-top-of-my-head Extrapolation on Ekman's Taxonomy / Theory of Compassion

Compassion Level 1:
Emotion Recognition
This is simply recognizing how another person is feeling. I think us xNTxs may struggle in this area due to the greater majority of the population perhaps being xSFx - Each "side" so to speak should, however, learn to recognize not to make assumptions based on expression of emotion or to make assumptions based on lack of emotion.

Compassion Level 2:
Emotional Resonance
This is externalization of empathy. xNTxs certainly tend to be deficit in this area due to the mind overriding emotional processes in favor of being able to make a logical decision since there can tend to be either a lot of influential impact at stake should emotional gratification be prioritized over a necessary implementation, or simply that communication is misaligned due to lack of intersecting knowledge bases between parties. xNFxs tend to be more understanding on this front and guiding in their approach.

Compassion Level 3:
Familial Compassion
This is compassion exchanged between family, and if this was never present in your life, then it may be more difficult to express it to others, let alone yourself. That said, in the case it isn't possible to find friends who will treat you like family, even if they are simply lost strangers on the internet, you can still achieve higher levels of compassion (see level 4 - 6). If these familial bonds do exist in your life, it will benefit you to strengthen them if possible and realize that there was meaning in the simple fact that they had given you your life. (As someone who has high levels of ambition, I have tended to prioritize career over family at times and am making the effort to be there for them when I can as the holiday season approaches.)

Compassion Level 4:
Global Compassion
Civilization persists only with this and the people that bear it. Concern for others in times of need due to unforeseen catastrophes, or concern in early prevention of said catastrophes are examples very generally speaking.

Compassion Level 5:
Sentient Compassion
If you can have respect for even the (supposedly) ugliest creatures of the planet and beyond, this is (supposedly) deemed by Dalai Lama and Darwin to be the highest form of "moral virtue". I would add that the ugliest creatures of the planet could be redefined as the humans we have grown to hate, such as those who exist at extreme polarities of wealth class - those in deep poverty who struggle to get out and only seem to take from those around them, and the 1% who appear to do the same - I believe learning to have compassion for those extremes in society can help us all work together for a better humanity. We were conditioned to see certain people as uglier than others when that is simply false. Everyone should be free from the harshness of so-called ugliness or being defined as ugly.

Compassion Level 6:
Heroic Compassion
There are supposedly two types of heroic compassion.
"Immediate Heroic Compassion" is expression of compassion that is impulsive or immediate, like giving someone a hug or donating to a cause you believe in.
"Considered Heroic Compassion" is compassion that has been formulated over many years with much thought and intent. What comes to mind in this case is Bill Gates; in the documentary, when his daughter criticized him for not immediately building something for those in Africa who suffered from ultra-poor living conditions, he responded that he was instead trying to build a sanitation system for the world at large, which he did, and which saved and impacted many more lives positively.

I have thought about considered heroic compassion nearly every single moment of my life ever since I was very little, didn't know a term existed until just tonight. Even my parents would come to unintentionally dismiss my aspirations to change the world in favor of highly short term goals, however, looking back I can still acknowledge those as partly necessary. In any case, now that I am at a turning point in my life, and have cultivated experience professionally, I am confident in my abilities despite those in older generations who may judge me for whatever reasons - I look too young, I'm a minority in many areas... I don't care. I have heart. I feel the pain of others and I feel the pain of the world. And I choose to struggle for the world at large. I'm risking everything. I want to stand for those without a voice.

"Kristen Monroe, a political scientist at the University of California, Irvine, has done a study of people with heroic compassion, and here are her criteria for it:

• you must act—not just think about how good it would be to act;
• your goal is the welfare of the other person;
• your action has consequences for that person;
• there’s a good possibility your actions will diminish your own welfare—you’re putting yourself at risk;
• and you have no anticipation of reward or recognition."

@Cognisant I believe some speculation on "Heroic Compassion", especially "Considered Heroic Compassion" could be some food for thought in regards to conceiving a theory of storytelling or in regards to your story writing, should you decide to continue.

 

[Tenacity]

What are your thoughts on compassion and the value or lack of value it has for any of the following?

1. Yourself
2. Those around you
3. The nation you live in
4. The world at large / civilization on Earth
5. Post-Earth or Multi-planetary Habitation / Multi-Planetary Advancement of Civilization

Is compassion actually necessary?
Is there any case where too much compassion is detrimental?
At what point, if any, is compassion a problem?
What historical, scientific, or other instance of compassion had dismantled a winning strategy?

 

[Cognisant]

I doubt myself more than I want to, as well, because I'm not greed-centric, yet I am saddened that it seems that much of the world is, thus disabling the power of compassion.

There's no good or evil, no right or wrong, only that which is, only the nature of oneself, it's not human greed that's the cause of our inhumanity that's a lie perpetuated by liars of false virtue to blind us and rob us. No, there is nothing wrong with human nature, if there is any malfunction it is our rejection of human nature, it is not greed that is the problem on the contrary it is a lack of it.

Spoiler: Greed

I constantly see the cynicism of society in regards to building for the future, as if every creation is so fated for inevitable destruction, when, instead, should we not hope for light where there is darkness?

A brighter future for everyone, forever, ever brighter as the years go by?
Such unbridled greed, magnificent, and don't be afraid to take pride in that because you should take pride in it, to have pride is to see in yourself something you would admire in others and would you not admire anyone who seeks to make the world a better place?

 

[Cognisant]

Compassion is good but the Christian notion of self sacrifice is just a part of the narrative that helps them fleece people, if you really want to help people you need to first become self sufficient. Of course kind words cost nothing and no matter how busy you are you're never short a moment to spare, if you're already late for work another minute won't matter.

Ultimately every good deed we do is done because we want to do it and we want to do good because we can take pride in it, a pride that stems from being the change we want to see in the world, a desire for change that comes from our dissatisfaction with the world as it currently is, a dissatisfaction that stems from our personal desire to live in a better world.

If you try to make the world a better place by sacrificing yourself you're just robbing yourself of motivation and I think that's where a lot of people's apathy comes, the false assumption that virtue that isn't self-sacrificing isn't virtuous. That if you do good but you do it for your own satisfaction you're not really doing good at all which is absolute nonsense but it's a notion that's incredibly prevalent because people hold themselves to a fictional divine standard.

Then there's the people who are doing good for their own personal satisfaction but they don't see it that way, they see themselves as doing "god's work" which is just an externalized substitute for their ego, these people are internally conflicted trying to serve their nature whilst in denial of it and this confusion makes them exploitable, it causes them to put dogma and group-think and irrational knee-jerk reactions before their own moral intuition based on greed and pride.

 

[Kormak]

Compassion is good but the Christian notion of self sacrifice is just a part of the narrative that helps them fleece people, if you really want to help people you need to first become self sufficient.

Matthew 7:5-7 - You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Do not give dogs what is holy; do not throw your pearls before swine. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

thou shalt read the bible. People don't read the bible, people don't understand the bible, people who say they are Christians are in fact not.

I can identify as an attack helicopter if I want to, doesn't make me one.

Matthew 16:24 - Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

Deal with your own burdens first, have discipline. To deny oneself means to have discipline.

e_e Christians are supposed to have discipline, to pick up their own burdens and deal with them first. Christ is God, his cross is the world's burden. Yours is not. Don't be a hypocrite. Most ppl are.

A Christian can't hope to carry other ppl's cross if he/she can't even pick up their own.

 

[Cognisant]

Yeah yeah I'm sure Tolkien wrote something similar, listen mate I've read the bible (granted I didn't commit it to memory) and even the bible isn't the bible, it's been translated and reinterpreted and straight up edited so many times throughout the centuries that it's tone/advice is inconsistent throughout.

It's an old book of fables and loose historical accounts, not the last word in philosophy.

Also I may nay be no true Scottsman an you may nay be no choppa but ye start with tha good Christian nonsene an I be shoven this 'ere broadsword up yere arse!

 

[Kormak]

Yeah yeah I'm sure Tolkien wrote something similar, listen mate I've read the bible (granted I didn't commit it to memory) and even the bible isn't the bible, it's been translated and reinterpreted and straight up edited so many times throughout the centuries that it's tone/advice is inconsistent throughout.

It's an old book of fables and loose historical accounts, not the last word in philosophy.

Also I may nay be no true Scottsman an you may nay be no choppa but ye start with tha good Christian nonsene an I be shoven this 'ere broadsword up yere arse!

^^ lmao, absolutely crushed. :P it is a cobbled-together book meant to revitalize the crumbling and decadent Roman Empire. Its built on Jewish history. There is a purpose there. ^^ I guess thats why they hate it so, we stole their history, sacked the temple, killed the priest and usurped the old testament by building an new one based in Greco-Roman phylospophy on top.

I would like to note that Christians don't consider God to be a bearded man in the sky. Jesus Christ is literally considered to be God, in the flesh, aka pathos.

God is sovereign and all Powerful- this is Ethos (the father)

God is the author of wisdom and is all knowing- this is Logos (the holy spirit)

God is Love and so loved the world He gave His Son – this is Pathos (Jesus in the flesh, the son)

You know nothing scottsman

john 1:1 In the beginning was Logos, and Logos was with God, and Logos was God.

Ez clap

 

[Cognisant]

God is a fictional character, a boring and poorly written one at that.

If you think the truth is in Judaism why not become a Jew, oh right you can't, you're not of Jewish blood so the covenant doesn't apply to you, are you really fighting to defend a fictional god that never wanted you in the first place? What a joke!

Jesus died for you sins did he, save you from damnation did he, who damned you in the first place and moreover what great sacrifice did Jesus make to save all mankind? Dead for three days then he resurrected and went to heaven, holy fuck he sacrificed a long weekend. What a champion, what a savior, and for the past two thousand years he's been chilling in paradise, what utter fucking nonsense.

Moreover your philosophy is flawed and toxic as I've already explained, indeed there's no point to this as nothing I say will change your mind after all what is faith if not to believe in spite of the evidence? There is no discourse to be had here, I dare say were it not for your impotence you would label me a heretic and strike me down.

I have no need of your opinion and my cause is not to convert you, begone sophist.

 

[Kormak]

God is a fictional character, a boring and poorly written one at that.

Its a fictional ideal, one to live up to. The trinity of Ethos-Logos and Pathos. Like most gods. The norsemen used to try and emulate Odin or Thor or Freya, those were ideals as well. This one is just more fleshed out through phylosophy.

If you think the truth is in Judaism why not become a Jew, oh right you can't, you're not of Jewish blood so the covenant doesn't apply to you, are you really fighting to defend a fictional god that never wanted you in the first place? What a joke!

Christianity is a rejection of judaism. In case you didn't notice. Jews don't like Christians or Christ at all. For various historical reasons. :P I'm an atheist tbh.. I'm aware ow what this actually is.

Jesus died for you sins did he, save you from damnation did he, who damned you in the first place and moreover what great sacrifice did Jesus make to save all mankind? Dead for three days then he resurrected and went to heaven, holy fuck he sacrificed a long weekend. What a champion, what a savior, and for the past two thousand years he's been chilling in paradise, what utter fucking nonsense.

That is just a story, pathos. To appeal to man through his/her heart. The Romans needed it to stick and spread throughout a superstitious populace.

Moreover your philosophy is flawed and toxic as I've already explained, indeed there's no point to this as nothing I say will change your mind after all what is faith if not to believe in spite of the evidence? There is no discourse to be had here, I dare say were it not for your impotence you would label me a heretic and strike me down.

"Toxic" lol, ?. It is what was needed at the time to get the empire back on it's feet. Religiousness is like an instict, if you are high IQ enough, you rise above it. I thought you were a thinker, what is this emotional outburst? Its like I poured salt into your wounds... are you... triggered? Wtf!?

I have no need of your opinion and my cause is not to convert you, begone sophist.

What have I said that isn't true? Nothing, yet you become emotional and lash out at the truth. Have it your way, throwing pearls be4 swine is something I won't do.

 

[Tenacity]

What is more unifying or pacifying than compassion?

Wasn't expecting this to be a conversation on religion, but, okay, I guess it must be addressed.

 

[Kormak]

What are your thoughts on compassion and the value or lack of value it has for any of the following?

1. Yourself
2. Those around you
3. The nation you live in
4. The world at large / civilization on Earth
5. Post-Earth or Multi-planetary Habitation / Multi-Planetary Advancement of Civilization

Is compassion actually necessary?
Is there any case where too much compassion is detrimental?
At what point, if any, is compassion a problem?
What historical, scientific, or other instance of compassion had dismantled a winning strategy?

Compassion - pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others.

1. Yourself - I don't want others to pity me. I prefer to drag myself out of hell if I must. I won't reject genuine affort to help tho, but I refuse to take advantage of other ppl's kindness. Some ppl do that, its disgusting.

2. Those around you - I only have compassion for ppl who actually struggle and put effort into trying to help themselves and only scorn for those who pity themselves and see themselves as victims. In my expereince the latter will abuse other people's kindness and so they deserve none in return.

3. The nation around you - I deal with ppl individually. I do have some feellings towards my extended gentic family tho. Common heritage, history, founding myth. Why else would they frustrate me, why else does this make me shed a tear?:

Spoiler

4. The world at large / civilization on Earth - I deal with ppl individually. I hope we thrive, but that does not depend on me alone. I don't have feelings of any kind towards an impersonal entity such as this.

5. Post-Earth or Multi-planetary Habitation / Multi-Planetary Advancement of Civilization - See point 4.

Is compassion actually necessary?
I think so, yes. We evolved it for a reason haven't we?

Is there any case where too much compassion is detrimental?
At what point, if any, is compassion a problem?
Having compassion for those who do not apreciate it, who have none for you and abuse your charity is simply dumb.

What historical, scientific, or other instance of compassion had dismantled a winning strategy?

Spoiler

 

[Rebis]

I was thinking about my purpose in life, and I hope that I can create compassion for those without before I die.

I hear all the dogma in my head, and it is unfortunately the people closest to me who have doubted and are likely to doubt my abilities on this front.

I constantly see the cynicism of society in regards to building for the future, as if every creation is so fated for inevitable destruction, when, instead, should we not hope for light where there is darkness?

And then there are things like double standards and natural stigmatism in places like Venture Capital, where some men are confined to invest only in what they know, and women VCs, while I'm glad they are finally even present and taking on leadership roles, many as well are biased, and, while not to the same extent, still overvalue either on one end, the concept of mainstream/proven methods of altruism, or past metrics and current rate of change in growth, and their reservation over future potential follows the same thought process as "I haven't see anyone look like her do something this ambitious before, it's not going to work". I.e. Anyone too "in the middle" or too eccentric doesn't make the cut due to groupthink.

I aspire to become an angel investor because I see these stigmas, and I value the merit of intellect over the superficiality of being sold by 15 minute presentations. I believe the pitch deck presentation format should be mostly blind - That if you over-value someone's conviction in person over how they really think and act over the long term, how do you really know that a venture is to succeed and have longevity? I believe the system is flawed and that certain VC firms that have grown in popularity have become overly hungry for seeing numbers grow over actual world impact. I'd like to revolutionize venture capital for the next generation, with an emphasis on compassionate investing. This would mean more investment in companies that contribute to the public good, especially where the government is unfortunately too slow or falls short, and more value creation towards fixing the wreckage of problems we currently have like what billions of people are actually going to do after the wave of automation takes place - These people should not be condemned to a lack of a fulfilling life, but should be able to do what they are gifted in, and if they don't know what that is, be able to take the time to discover that, and learn the trades necessary to do what is truly fulfilling.

We don't need to wipe people out. People can change, improve, and transform into much stronger and wiser people than who they used to be or than who they grew up as simply due to the confines of the contexts of their nurturing.

I want to see people be more compassionate about who we are beyond the surface. I think that is why I'm here. I'm glad I'm able to connect with some of you. I'm thankful for that.

I doubt myself more than I want to, as well, because I'm not greed-centric, yet I am saddened that it seems that much of the world is, thus disabling the power of compassion.

I appreciate your view but it doesn't synergise well with the economic system: Money is power, power is influence. To gain the most influence in this society is to accumulate wealth, to maintain one's influence you have to be frugal. To maintain one's influence they must horder money, think of it as cashing out: You invest £1 a day and gain 10% of your total balance every six months. Compound interest takes place, if you cash it early you're back to square one with a poorer position to rise in the business environment. If you don't cash out in 20 years time you'll be well off. The economic system is decided by money, so money is the only thing that matters.

I'm sure people in business had the same mentality: They thought they could climb the economic spiral so far into the heavens they could truly change the world for the better, and to some extent I reckon some very wealthy people did. If a company donates half of its profits to charity then it can't spend on R & D, that weakness is detected by other companies and both compete. The one who wasn't charitable was able to invest more money into their infrastructure. A cap on a businesses's finance would aid in this respect that meant the economic ladder wasn't endless and excess profit could be used for the ideals of the businessman. I think businessmen were shaped by the system and some that became billionaires really just had crazy dreams that they couldn't hope would work without money.

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

I think compassion is a fragile thing. It implies that people’s actions towards each other should be dependent on their feelings - which may result in bad or good behavior depending on how they feel about things. I for example don’t have too much real compassion towards randoms in the street, but my principles dictate certain attitudes towards them regardless of what I feel.

 

[Kormak]

I think compassion is a fragile thing. It implies that people’s actions towards each other should be dependent on their feelings - which may result in bad or good behavior depending on how they feel about things. I for example don’t have too much real compassion towards randoms in the street, but my principles dictate certain attitudes towards them regardless of what I feel.

I agree with this.

 

[Rebis]

Tired at the moment and I'm not good at sleeping until night, but I think logotherapy is important at least artificially: Our intelligence oberves the world, we observe systems. These systems have flaws which we identify as problems thus the association with intelligence and problem solving. In that respect, pursuing meaning (logotherapy) in relation to problems you identify and seek to resolve is the best way to live.

 

[Rebis]

We don't need to wipe people out. People can change, improve, and transform into much stronger and wiser people than who they used to be or than who they grew up as simply due to the confines of the contexts of their nurturing.

It's fight or flight- either the person applies the pressure they're feeling to grow, or they scramble in an isolated pit of anxiety and fear. I constantly try to improve myself because to stop improving is to stagnate, to remain the same is to harbour an identity and I've typically found that arrogance and pride are the product of people who don't constantly change, they've stopped growing and decided "Boom, this is me, I'm fucking awesome." What I'm saying is I find it's actually rare for people to actively change themselves, a lot of people "accept" who they are as being their nature, they think it's ok to be depressed, anxious and so on. These are mental health disorders but I find very little people actually try to understand why they feel that way, they may ask a doctor for meds but mono-therapy is rarely the solution.

You may want to change, and infact I imagine a lot of INTPs as a product of studying prospective systems rather than sticking with a few naturally change themselves a lot because they recognise limitations of one system so substitute for another, but I do not think people care to better themselves. Few pursue improvement even if they express they want to.

If I was to put a marker on my best trait it would be I never take anything for granted, I'm rarely proud of my achievements because I just see better achievers. There is always someone who dwarfs me so I must keep climbing the tower of babel with each level symbolizing a knowledge base. If I felt a semblance of any pride it would be that I understand who I am, what are my flaws and the best possible version of myself I can become. Few people question their nature, fewer less try to renurture themselves.

Change is a fantasy for most.

 

[Tenacity]

Fair points and perspectives. Thanks all. I'll be thinking them through.

 

[Rebis]

Fair points and perspectives. Thanks all. I'll be thinking them through.

Sorry for the bois and I not reciprocating the idyllic/emotional element @Tenacity , maybe some other time

 

[Kormak]

Why do you guys want the world to change?
Why not accept it for what it is?

I read a Buddhist book back in the university days. It convinced me that the Buddha was right. The need for control leads to excessive suffering. Just let go, you can only control yourself. You are the eye of the storm, chaos is all around you, as it should be. Go with the flow, its the lesson of suffering. ^^ think about what happened to Anakin Skyemo, couldn't save Padme, in fact he killed her himself.

If people want a better life a better future, they have to decide to fight for those themselves. I learned in a psychology class that if a patient does not want to help themselves I certainly won't be able to either. Why waste time and effort, when you can improve your lot in life instead and just put useful information out there for others to use if they wish?

If you steal the struggle from people, by making their lives easier... don't you rob them of experience and the opportunity for growth? Don't you cheapen their lives?

“To those human beings who are of any concern to me I wish suffering, desolation, sickness, ill-treatment, indignities—I wish that they should not remain unfamiliar with profound self-contempt, the torture of self-mistrust, the wretchedness of the vanquished: I have no pity for them, because I wish them the only thing that can prove today whether one is worth anything or not—that one endures.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche, The Will to Power

I think Nietzsche here is very compassionate.

 

[Cognisant]

If you want to minimize suffering you should just lay down and die, to live is to suffer, we are by nature inherently incapable of lasting satisfaction because life itself exists in the defiance of entropy.

Strive or die, there is no other option.

Subsistence is just suicide for those who lack the conviction to kill themselves.

 

[Kormak]

If our happiness was nature’s end or purpose, it would have used a more effective means to this end than making us rational. Since nature's end is survival and life is suffering, it follows that suicide is a component of selection, which would make it a wrong action to take if we hope to evolve a mechanism that deals with this issue. Someone who resorts to suicide is simply weak and selfish. Natural selection is in effect.

 

[Cognisant]

If you steal the struggle from people, by making their lives easier... don't you rob them of experience and the opportunity for growth? Don't you cheapen their lives?

“To those human beings who are of any concern to me I wish suffering, desolation, sickness, ill-treatment, indignities—I wish that they should not remain unfamiliar with profound self-contempt, the torture of self-mistrust, the wretchedness of the vanquished: I have no pity for them, because I wish them the only thing that can prove today whether one is worth anything or not—that one endures.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche, The Will to Power

This is no reason not to strive to make the world a better place, there's no risk of accidentally creating an eternal paradise, people are profoundly incapable of satisfaction indeed the crux of your point is that you would find paradise unfulfilling.

What will we do when we're no longer tormented by mundane concerns?
What new desires will we invent when our current ones are satiated?
I dunno but it sounds like fun

 

[Kormak]

This is no reason not to strive to make the world a better place, there's no risk of accidentally creating an eternal paradise, people are profoundly incapable of satisfaction indeed the crux of your point is that you would find paradise unfulfilling.

:S this is true. I find the very idea of heaven... repulsive tbh. e_e never liked that bs about eternal happiness. What is happiness without suffering? Light without dark? The contrast is necessary.

What will we do when we're no longer tormented by mundane concerns?
What new desires will we invent when our current ones are satiated?
I dunno but it sounds like fun

I'd be bored to tears :/ tbh. I'd desire problems to solve... they will forever exist.

EDIT: maybe I'm content with how the world is for this very reason...?Fair point @Cognisant

 

[Rebis]

[

Why do you guys want the world to change?
Why not accept it for what it is?

I read a Buddhist book back in the university days. It convinced me that the Buddha was right. The need for control leads to excessive suffering. Just let go, you can only control yourself. You are the eye of the storm, chaos is all around you, as it should be. Go with the flow, its the lesson of suffering. ^^ think about what happened to Anakin Skyemo, couldn't save Padme, in fact he killed her himself.

View attachment 4473

If people want a better life a better future, they have to decide to fight for those themselves. I learned in a psychology class that if a patient does not want to help themselves I certainly won't be able to either. Why waste time and effort, when you can improve your lot in life instead and just put useful information out there for others to use if they wish?

If you steal the struggle from people, by making their lives easier... don't you rob them of experience and the opportunity for growth? Don't you cheapen their lives?

“To those human beings who are of any concern to me I wish suffering, desolation, sickness, ill-treatment, indignities—I wish that they should not remain unfamiliar with profound self-contempt, the torture of self-mistrust, the wretchedness of the vanquished: I have no pity for them, because I wish them the only thing that can prove today whether one is worth anything or not—that one endures.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche, The Will to Power

I think Nietzsche here is very compassionate.

I think struggle is intertwined with existence, it will never be taken away. So in this respect supplying people with help is really setting their struggle to another layer of existence: Eradicate biological poverty, now the issue is social poverty. So in this respect struggle is never taken from the individual because struggle is defined by the reality they have vs the reality of their ideals. We adapt to our environment, it is a universal law.

Having said that in Tenacity's analogy above, we can eradicate the layer of struggle that revolves around "basic" necessities, necessities defined by that which physically keeps us alive and free from extremes: So water, food, shelter exchanged for money. The struggle is moving from one of necessity to one of idealism.

 

[Cognisant]

I'd be bored to tears :/ tbh. I'd desire problems to solve... they will forever exist.

EDIT: maybe I'm content with how the world is for this very reason...?

You desire problems to solve, yet you don't want to solve them?
Well aren't you silly

 

[Rebis]

If our happiness was nature’s end or purpose, it would have used a more effective means to this end than making us rational. Since nature's end is survival and life is suffering, it follows that suicide is a component of selection, which would make it a wrong action to take if we hope to evolve a mechanism that deals with this issue. Someone who resorts to suicide is simply weak and selfish. Natural selection is in effect.

I wouldn't define abstract concepts like happiness relative to the physical world, there is too much of a gap to even relate the two. Nature is just a system of inanimate objects interacting with each other, no desire or objective.

 

[Rebis]

Why do you guys want the world to change?
Why not accept it for what it is?

Our nature is one of survival, we identify problems and resolve them. We're at the apex of the pyramid precisely because of that reason. Accepting the current state of reality is not in opposition to recognising problems within this reality and trying to alter these conditions for the future.

We socialise ideas, we change the world constantly. Systems rise and fall, the world cannot just be static.

 

[Rebis]

Infact this very discussion is an analogy of our inherent problem-identifying intelligence: Biological poverty has been eradicated for the most part across the world, yet we take food for granted everyday. Now look at us, arguing over abstract ideas like the meaning of life. Clearly our analytical ability to identify problems will never cease, you are assured of that.

 

[Kormak]

You desire problems to solve, yet you don't want to solve them?
Well aren't you silly

Yeah, that is silly. I don't want to take other ppl's opportunity away tho. e_e maybe if they pay me, otherwise it would be purely out of self-interest for personal growth. :P not very altruistic of me. It is not like I won't help, it is more like the problems don't bother me unless they have specifically to do with myself and are within the area I can control.

I wouldn't define abstract concepts like happiness relative to the physical world, there is too much of a gap to even relate the two. Nature is just a system of inanimate objects interacting with each other, no desire or objective.

Your survival instincts are what then? You say it yourself, see below:

Our nature is one of survival, we identify problems and resolve them. We're at the apex of the pyramid precisely because of that reason. Accepting the current state of reality is not in opposition to recognising problems within this reality and trying to alter these conditions for the future.

We socialise ideas, we change the world constantly. Systems rise and fall, the world cannot just be static.

I agree.

Infact this very discussion is an analogy of our inherent problem-identifying intelligence: Biological poverty has been eradicated for the most part across the world, yet we take food for granted everyday. Now look at us, arguing over abstract ideas like the meaning of life. Clearly our analytical ability to identify problems will never cease, you are assured of that.

its gr8 isn't it. ^^ ppl don't even realize how good they have it. (not being sarcastic, I mean it)

XD tbh I love discussing stuff like this, some of the most fun I can have. Its annoying that offline there are no ppl I can talk about this stuff with

 

[Rebis]

I wouldn't say problem solving is happiness, I would say satisfying that human inclination gives meaning, logotherapy in other words.

I joined a fb INTP group today and it looks like genuine trash, who would've guessed the recluses on the internet had more stimulating content that a fb group?