Ok so where are the math threads?

[saucer]

Hasn't ANYONE been curious about this?

I mean, INTPers are supposed to be intellectual. The most famous among them are supposed to be mathematical & logical wizards.

So where are the smoldering piles of math threads with INTP members flaunting their mathematical compositions? Does the average INTP personality not care about that & instead prefer sharing manga images of young girls brooding alone in a corner?

I mean, in NO forum with an INTP theme do I recall seeing such a thing. I don't even share much interest in math though I still use it for some things.

Weird. But again, why?

 

[Black Rose]

I did math once. but I do not know if I math good or not.

 

[birdsnestfern]

Here are a few types of depreciation if this counts:

 

[saucer]

Ok so, again, why are smoldering piles of mathematical (even "mathematical") expressions not the norm here?

Math is a language just as English or Spanish is a language -- there is at least the attempt for logic & structure behind most of it nevermind debates/arguments for their utility, understandability, et al. Even as infants at least we here were immersed in language while we were immersed in everything else our caretaker(s) offered & themselves did.

It's all around us & drilled into us. So why aren't we doing more of it here with math, sharing it, publicly vetting it? The risks of self-delusion, rational errors, faulty conclusions, etc. exist for math as much as any other language.

What's the deal with INTP's being so meek or perhaps assuming with math when we are considered so skeptical about, say, social conformity & the legitimacy of feelings of others?

Math really is no more worthy. Its use to model say socioeconomic activity, astronomical events, even a car driver's speed limit is debatable -- e.g., tire grip variances can give up some vehicle speed, hence prosecuting drivers for failing to meet minimum speed requirements opens up a number of risks.

Seems INTPs might be into math models, code & control systems that identify, address & offer mitigating features for that example? Why would this instead be say an INTJ habit instead? Or, in the INTP lounge state, again are we just interested in the Anime girl sitting in a corner & brooding? Why? Why isn't playing a game more fun?

I mean, we're already writing about something here anyway. Are we really here to objectify our curiosities & questions for exploration if anything & little else?

Are we really here, as Jung might suggest, to objectify, explore & interact with our own shadows? If so, that could explain much about the INTP stereotype of not caring for others' feelings, not being so interested in others' feedback, coming across as being self-absorbed & seemjngly only interested in that "Anime girl in the corner & brooding" pic.

And yet, I remain confounded by the lack of math games, models, debates, questions, etc here & at all the other INTP forums I've encounted.

 

[The Grey Man]

We had at least one trained mathematician and some engineers at one point, but this forum has had a long and troubled history and most of the most interesting members are long gone, I'm afraid.

For my part, I went back to school to study mathematics last year motivated chiefly by philosophical considerations pertaining to Eugene Wigner's "unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics in the natural sciences" and especially the role played by analogy in both mathematical structure and mathematical discovery. Due to my philosophical approach, I am less interested in the analogates—diverse phenomena, theories, and even the constructions with which the theories are expressed—than analogy itself and its potential to connect cosmology and anthropology, thus preparing the ground for metaphysics or 'first philosophy' in the style of Aristotle and St. Thomas Aquinas. Consequently I'm something of a mathematical dilettante or, I hope, a connoisseur: I study mathematics for the sake of understanding how the universe holds together and how certain aspects of the divine plan of Creation have been recapitulated in the mind of man, how, according to Pope Leo XIII, "it has been vouchsafed to human reason to snatch from nature, through the investigations of science, many of her treasured secrets and to apply them befittingly to the divers requirements of life". In doing so, I hope to better understand the modern world, which is based on modern technology as the latter is based on mathematical physics.

Prominent examples of analogies that resulted in a leap forward for science (in case anyone is wondering what on earth I'm talking about):

1. The original Archimedean-Galilean shift from empirical to Pythagorean-analogical science
2. Kepler's geometrization of celestial mechanics
3. Descartes' algebraicization of geometry
4. Newton's dynamical unification of terrestrial and celestial mechanics
5. Boole's algebraicization of logic
6. Poincaré/Lorentz/Einstein's non-Euclidian geometrization of mechanics
7. von Neumann's demonstration of the equivalence of matrix and wave mechanics

 

[saucer]

Hello Grey Man,

Within your list I remain very impressed with Pythagoras', Descartes', Newton's & Boole's math contributions. Of course there are far more mathematicians to cite & honor, but for me these "toolmakers" get big respect.

Where we might diverge on the subject of understanding the world, the universe, reality -- whatever code word one might use to identify the object of scientific exploration or even an exploration of any kind at any personal age meaning an adventure perhaps -- is that I can only go so far as accept that a mathematical model remains a model, something still flawed.

Yet I would agree wholeheartedly that humanity is in and of the world, the universe, reality. As beings with perception as well as our own continual evolution with this evolving world, it's fair to concude at least the possibility that one day our intellectual, artistic contributions will accurately mirror the world such that which one is the mirror & which one is the world defy all distinction -- evidence that the "=" sign nevermind every other mathematical symbol isn't a conceit after all but instead the real deal -- but I also don't accept that event happens today in spite of any scheduling demands.

I think we still have much to discover, experience, understand, utilize, etc. before we lose our distinction from the world, from reality.

I mean, maybe in the end mathematics & human languages in general may never leave its role as a pacifier, a security blanket we hold tightly onto as we huddle together in fear of a forever intellectually impenetrable, seeming motivelessly violent universe that would no more care to see our irreversible extinction than to see us ultimately merge with it to the point of complete indistinction.

 

[Black Rose]

I think the way the INTP mind works is that it is always asking open-ended questions. It is always trying to dismantle things because it finds flaws and is always trying to eliminate flaws from its thinking. Extroverted thinking is not the same because in my theory it is visual. Flaws do not exist unless they lead to unobtained goals. It does not need to be perfect to work but it does need to get the job done. Ti is a language apparatus so in Ti flaws are infinite. Only a small area contains no flaws in the INTP mind.

When this forum was started it was meant as a place to have fun not to monetize. The founder was not looking for money but for an intellectual gathering. It was meant as a place to increase a set of knowledge. The motivation behind it was not money. Yes, it does seem most INTPs do not care about anything but it is all about Analysis. INTJ may use maths better or show it more than INTPs use it because it is a helpful tool to get them what they need. INTPs, all they want to do is find perfection so do not care about sharing. But then the INTJ and INTP can work together because any flaw in the INTJ plan needs to be accounted for. The INTJ does not want to fail.

The only difference I see is that some INTPs and INTJs do not give advice on how to make things better. They only find the flaws and so INTJ cannot rely on INTP to improve their plans. I have posted many plans and the only feedback I get is that they don't work. Maybe I could be more clear about what it is I am trying to accomplish but no one has the expertise in my field or they just do not want to take the time or they just say it does not work. What I am focused on is in getting it to work. But with all the dismantlement and my low IQ in certain areas of my brain I just cannot depend on myself or others to do this. Then as I would like to do is get other people and myself to be more creative.

So math is what I want to use to get things done.
INTPs just want to know what it is with no flaws.

 

[birdsnestfern]

Here are all of the Feynman lectures in one place, includes some interesting math:

The Feynman Lectures on Physics Vol. I Ch. 40: The Principles of Statistical Mechanics

The Feynman Lectures on Physics

Also, I think a lot of trigonometry can be done on a Ti 84 graphing calculator now.


See if you can find a link that does teach what you want and share it here. Maybe we can all take the class and share the link and log on info and cost?

Its hard to tell which level or type of AI you want to study.

Here is a free AI coding class: Turn on the subtitles in English if its hard to hear the instructor:
You can sign up and audit it for free. Just put skip if you don't want to add company and job title, etc.

Its for auditing the class, in other words I did not sign up for the tests, just the content.

AI For Everyone

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www.coursera.org

https://www.coursera.org/learn/ai-for-everyone/home/week/1

More online classes:

 

[scorpiomover]

Hasn't ANYONE been curious about this?

Yes, and no. I have a maths degree. But been around here a while, and noticed the patterns.

I mean, INTPers are supposed to be intellectual. The most famous among them are supposed to be mathematical & logical wizards.

So where are the smoldering piles of math threads with INTP members flaunting their mathematical compositions? Does the average INTP personality not care about that & instead prefer sharing manga images of young girls brooding alone in a corner?

I mean, in NO forum with an INTP theme do I recall seeing such a thing. I don't even share much interest in math though I still use it for some things.

Weird. But again, why?

1) INTPs like to learn, not show off how clever they are. If you want to see some deep maths, ask a question about some deep maths, and watch them try to explain.

2) INTPs are known for their interest in philosophy, not mathematics. The reason why is because INTPs like to think, talk and discuss ideas.

Philosophy is like maths, except that maths requires a huge amount of rigour, i.e. anything that isn't 100% certain is thrown out. So most of the exploration, questioning and discussion in maths, happens in the conjecture phase. So the talking happens before you get to a mathematical theorem.

Philosophy is kind of the opposite, in that philosophers like to talk about philosophy topics. But if any philosophers actually come to a solid answer, the answer transfers automatically to another subject. E.G. philosophers conjectured whether bodies were made of atoms for nearly 2,000 years. However, once it was proven that bodies were made of atoms, then atomic theory became part of physics, and ceased to be part of philosophy.

So philosophy tends to be where you get to ask all the cool questions that have no answers yet. Once they are answered, then they're not part of philosophy anymore.

However, there are a few of us here who like thinking about maths. Care to discuss the philosophical implications of the Continuum Hypothesis? Or the consequences of Godel's Incompleteness Theorems?

 

[saucer]

Animekitty: indulging your passion for AI isn't stupid at all AFAIC. Relish it, I say. Most human discoveries stem more from luck through perseverence not intelligence or skill despite that intelligence & skill can be helpful. AI's just not something I myself am passionate about.

scorpiomover: I think you are conflicted in claiming that mathematics is unquestionably reliable while at the same time enabling inference that, e.g., Gödel's criticisms compel. But yes I have some memory of Gödel's work & have indulged unsatisfactorily into some analytical philosophy. That IS a good suggestion as a thread for this forum. Has there been one already started? If so, what if anything did you find interesting? (and no I don't mean the one I now started lol I mean any others).

 

[saucer]

Well I had a terribly unproductive time wading through Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems but had lots of laughs at myself for trying to describe the movie "Altered States" to anyone.

Anybody ever see that movie? I enjoyed most of it when I saw it but the final scene was a real letdown. I mean OF COURSE she still wanted to have his baby! The heavy-handedness of the direction also irritated me. But I've seen worse. Was there even a single mathematical operator nevermind mathematical value cited either in the movie or my Gödel thread? I doubt it.

Sorry, scorpiomover. I'm afraid I failed to make even the simplest argument add up or add up correctly in the attempt yet again.

Back to the graphics calculator...beep boop...